Inkbunny

They usually gets a pass because they fought against the Nazis with us and therefore are allowed to write who is good and bad with the rest of the victorious.
Therefore they tend to get a pass.

Stratus

6 years, 7 months ago

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You see that makes sense, but I like my explanation better.

DjijeyHellfire

6 years, 7 months ago

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my answer is the truth but yeah your is more fun x3

saggatb

6 years, 7 months ago

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Communists got the free pass because they killed indiscriminately. If only the Nazis went after everyone instead of the Jews, blacks, Gypsies and disabled.

Calbeck

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ saggatb

Communists get a pass strictly because of backlash against the "Red Scare" of the 1950s.

There were indeed SOME Communist spies and saboteurs. Very few. Everyone thought they were under every bed, regardless. Now we see the pattern repeating with "Nazi Scares". There aren't as many real Nazis in the US today as there were real Communists in the US in 1954... but we're back to looking under every bed for their shadows.

TwitchChameleon

6 years, 7 months ago

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Yeah but how quickly people forget the Communists fought ALONGSIDE the Nazis first. They only joined with the Allies after the Nazi's betrayed them.

CapitanBowlcut

6 years, 7 months ago

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Don't forget, they fought WITH the nazis before they fought against them.

mashuu

6 years, 7 months ago

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They would have kept going west.

bootmii

6 years ago

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@ mashuu

"	mashuu wrote:
	They would have kept going west.

That was their original plan even. They promised 1 million men to fight alongside the Poles right before, but the British and French delegations weren't authorized to make binding deals and approve of the plan, which is too bad because if the Western Allied diplomats did have that power they'd accept.

Justathereptile

6 years, 6 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 6 months ago by Owner

It's also people didn't find any racial ideals. in communism. I could be wrong though.

In fact I need someone to inform me, that way I'm not in the dark.

FireFox1948

6 years, 7 months ago

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Why are the Nazis more demonised? this simple quote "history is written by the victors"

moyomongoose

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ FireFox1948

Where the Nazis messed up royally was that they had Jews at the top of their shit list. Throughout history, there has always been something about "messing with the Jews" that has brought the very worst of terrible consequences.

The ancient Egyptian Pharaoh who Moses had to deal with learned that the hard way.

So did the Philistines who lost their best warrior, Goliath, when David (future king of Israel) slew him with a sling and stone. The country of Philistine then suffered the most severe famine and plagues as a result of that war they fought against the Jews.
Had Philistine picked their war with some other country (Greece, Jordan or some African country), the consequences would have not even compared to what they did get for fighting the Jews.

Egypt had learned that in the 1967 war.

So there's where Germany made their mistake that the Soviet Union did not make.

OsTin

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ moyomongoose

Soviets also had long history with repressions against jews. They did't do it "by the law" though, but almost one third of soviet concentration camps population was jews, sending in there by direct orders(there was a thing called "quotes" - blind jailing random people, or whole specific groups. Like "30 people from that house, 50 people from house next door").
Some of "freed" jews from Europe also was departed in special region on the Asian side border, called "autonomous jewish state", that was used for it since 1920-s.

KevinSnowpaw

6 years, 7 months ago

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I know he is suposed to be a charicture for idiotic social justice collage studends...

but every time i see that cute little fennec I just wanna snuggle him and. umm.. stuff...

Your arts to cute man :( I cant hate your charicters =p

TenchiArizonia

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ KevinSnowpaw

Kevin get your head out of the foxhole. :P

KevinSnowpaw

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ TenchiArizonia

No hes to cute

Athendae

6 years, 7 months ago

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But...but...MUH MANIFESTO! 😫

JakeDaMaus

6 years, 7 months ago

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Time to break out Dankula's facist pug XD

Yosomono

6 years, 7 months ago

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Nazbol gang where are you?

Kasil

6 years, 7 months ago

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Yes, because starving whole countries is so much better.

And Nazism was never collectivist in the least. The «socialist» in the name is just marketing bullshit.

TwitchChameleon

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Kasil

Nazi's were racial collectivists, what with "muh white racial superiority" and all. Both the Far-Right and the Far-Left are inherently collectivist, because everything devolves into identitarianism. And what makes them both actually evil, at their core, is that they are authoritarian. Also, whenever anyone brings up the Holocaust like it's somehow special among genocides and that's why communism isn't "as bad", you just bring up the "holodomor" that happened in the Ukraine. They'll either admit ignorance to that or flatly deny it ever happened.

Ukiwa

6 years, 7 months ago

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I strongly not recommend you to visit Russia with this picture! You will be hardly beaten for equal between Nazy and Soviet symbols.

VileFiend

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Ukiwa

Do Russians in general really wax nostalgic over the Soviet Union?

Ukiwa

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ VileFiend

Not exactly, actually. The USSR nostalgy was very hard about first twenty years after dismissal. But about last ten years we live much better, than in the Soviet Union. And older people dies, but youngs may not remember the USSR already. So now the nostalgy seems like this funny story:
- Grandpa, when you was more happy, now or in the Stalin era?
- In the Stalin era of course!
- But why?
- Because my penis was hard.

But the question is - soviet symbols are symbols with wich we won the most terrible war in russian history. So people never allows make them equal with the symbol of our the worst enemy. And we will remember this war very long time. Just google "immortal regiment" - nobody force all these people, they takes photos of their grandparents and goes to the parade absolutely voluntarily

Craftyandy

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Ukiwa

hardly beaten for that perhaps but you'll be fully beaten if russsians find out you're gay.

Ukiwa

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Craftyandy

Never heard of this. If you're normal guy, even gay, nobody cares. Of course, if you put on pink brassiere, walks along the street and shout 'I'm a gay, love me for this!!!'... yeah, it is risky. But even in this case the most people just say 'whatta crazy'.

The problem could be to meet gangsters, bandits or another ex or future prisoner. This social group hates gays, because of their concept gay are not human being. To make a man passive gay is the worst punishment between russian prisoners.

Craftyandy

6 years, 7 months ago

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what a choice we have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyybkBdHKxI

smblion

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

The Swastika is not a Nazi symbol. The Swastika was stolen by the Nazis like everything else. The Swastika is thousands of years old, and has it's origins in ancient African cultures. It's a symbol of power and strength. You will find it all over ancient African artwork exhibits in any decent museum.

We are doing people a disservice when teaching them to revile symbols without understanding their history. Allowing the Nazis to destroy an amazing symbol that's stood for thousands of years with their few decades of tyranny is foolish, in the same way that America's hysteria following 9/11, leading to many unjust laws, wars, and the elimination of "curb-side check-in" at airports, was also foolish.

I agree with you that the _message_ of the communist flag is bad, but the symbols are fine, they're about industrialization, hard work, and agriculture. These are good things to remember, especially as we head into an increasingly robotic future where nobody has to work anymore.

People are mostly not barely-functional retards, they can handle a bit of back-story without blindly following Pavlovian responses to symbols. As far as I'm concerned the moment they can no longer do that we should throw them all into the fire. For now let's educate them completely, which is what everyone deserves.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 7 months ago

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The swastika isn't just the black symbol, it is also in a white circle on a red background, it's all part of it.

Teisu

6 years, 7 months ago

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What he's trying to say... is that the core simbol itself is the wheel of progress (the black & white part). It only got "demonized" (if we can say it that way) by the nazis. In fact, this symbol can be found in ancient ruins, as he explained above... Obviously without the red bit. (that was actually added by the nazi's, as far as I know)

Thanks for reading!

smblion

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Teisu

Yes the Nazi's made several alterations, they reversed it's traditional direction (however ancient artwork shows it in both directions) and they turned it on it's end, it is normally displayed with one of the flat sides down. They also added the red and white colors as part of their usage of the symbol.

They no doubt used it for it's ancient meanings. We should not allow the Nazi's to destroy the greatest things in human creative history (such as powerful evocative shapes), simply by association. The Nazi's sucked, we killed _ALL_ of them (and will continue to do so), and now we can move on and re-claim the things they destroyed.

Teisu

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

True; we shouldn't let anyone destroy our history, ever.
Although, on the flip side of the coin... If WW2 had never happened, we would probably have 75% less technology nowadays. (Since back then & even nowadays war improved technology, sadly) such as microwaves for example, which where discovered when a soldier accidentally left a chocolate bar near a radio

smblion

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Teisu

"War improves technology" is a myth. War causes exponentially more damage and retardation of progress than any benefit that it offers. The reason you've heard that lie repeated to you many times in your life is because industrial warmongers made a fortune from the war.

And they are literally the only ones.

If the war had not happened there would have been technology advancement through healthier exploits such as space exploration or medicine.

There are zero benefits to war. Anyone who says differently is naive or crooked.

SissyLeo

6 years, 7 months ago

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Agreed. For example, the US spends 50% of it's discresionary budget on the military and war. IT takes about 80 Billion dollars to just maintain the military bases we have all over the world (in damn near every country) just so we can go right into the next invasion. We are also bombing at LEAST 8 different countries at the time of writing this and may well be on our way to adding two more because of warhawks in congress wanting to overthrow Iran (which we tried in the 50s, back when it had a democratic government, and replace that with the Sha before it backfired on us with the Iranian revolution in the 70s which gave us the Mullas who choose the elected leader rather than the people) and because we did military exercises on North Korea's border just at the cusp of peace talks to threaten them again. While the latter may be chalked up to oversight or stupidity, the former is a direct action of a government who supports war profiteers.

Keeran

6 years, 7 months ago

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The Swastika was a Buddhist symbol actually. I was meant to be a symbol of peace, but the nazis perverted it.

smblion

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Keeran

It's meant several things to several cultures over many millenia. Mostly positive things. The Nazi's are the only evil example of it's usage that I know of.

On the other hand, it's hard to say for sure what 10,000 year old african tribes really used it for, maybe they were terrible kings who tortured the peasants to rule by fear.

Kyyanno

6 years, 7 months ago

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I like Pip :)

mayhew

6 years, 7 months ago

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But what to do, if you say "Commies out" you get some shrill harpy calling you a Nazi

Ninetails2000

6 years, 7 months ago

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From the perspective of someone who keeps away from politics like herpes, this whole Communism thing seems like the political equivalent of Tide Pods: Endorsed as an ironic joke by many, but with people out there too dumb/smart/special to see the joke in it and take it seriously. The major difference being that unlike Tide Pods, Communism won't burn the mucus lining off of your lungs when you take a bite, so more people are taking bites.

JOECOON

6 years, 7 months ago

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I LIVE IN VENEZUELA, i am venezuelan. people, believe me, SOCIALISM SUCKS, COMMUNISM SUCKS, PERIOD. some of you, lñiving in the united states, think socialism is cool and hype because it talks about equality and union....IT IS PURE BULLSHIT, they make you equal...by making you poor, by taking from you to give to the parasites. I AM LIVING IT, so, yeah, take your john lennon crap and shove it deep in your naive asses, if you think socialism or communism are good, just because capitalism isn't perfect....then yeah......you are very, VERY naive.

Teisu

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Boy I understand you! although, you're not living in Socialism... Venezuela is just living a Dictatorship disguised as "Democracy"; which of "democracy" has only the name. Y'know, where I live, we almost went that path. but thank god elections turned the right way and things got & are getting fixed...

JOECOON

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ Teisu

glad to hear one country escaped the trap of socialism.....venezuela is not one of those, and we are paying the consequences of not voting wisely.

ParadoxPandox

6 years, 7 months ago

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"	GABUJOE wrote:
	take your john lennon crap

Uh... John Lennon was a member of the Beatles. I think you mean Vladimir Lenin. They're two veeeeeeeery different people. ^_^'

JOECOON

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ ParadoxPandox

no, i mean john lennon, the left winged singer. the one with the power to the people crap. trust me....I KNOW WHO LENIN IS, don't insult my intelligence. i hate every single person that defends left, because i have seen what left does to countries. I LIVE IN A COUNTRY DESTROYED BY PEOPLE BELIEVING ON THAT POWER TO THE PEOPLE, IMAGINE AND OTHER BULLSHIT SUNG BY LENNON AND DYLAN.

ParadoxPandox

6 years, 7 months ago

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Okay, okay. Honest mistake on my part. But a lot of people get them confused, and just because I thought you may be one of those people who innocently got them confused doesn't mean I'm insulting your intelligence. I'm not defending the left, nor will I defend the right. Neither are perfect, and neither have the answer.

But as a message, "power to the people" can work in a democratic context, too. How else is democracy supposed to work but with the people's power deciding what to do? Isn't that the whole point of democracy, and to an extent, even capitalism? The little man can make a difference. The little man can make money on his own.

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment, democracy can actually go too far. There's a saying here: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner." Democracy isn't perfect.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that communism and socialism are far from perfect and end up hurting a lot of people, but democracy and capitalism have done the same thing in the past, just on a much smaller scale, and that's the key. The reason I support democracy and capitalism is because they've been proven to work, they're fair, and I believe in them, not because they're the perfect solution or an end-all-be-all.

Technically, people are right when they say that communism and socialism have never been implemented properly, but unlike democracy and capitalism, they will never be implemented properly because of human nature. Unless human nature changes, these governmental and economical systems will never work, because someone will always want more. So don't think for one second that I support communism and socialism (or the left in general) just because I don't think they're inherently evil. In fact, I'd say that their underlying ideas come from a place of benevolence. The majority of these people want to help, but in these kinds of systems, the few ruin it for the many. They think they're giving power to the people, when really, they end up taking it away.

But in the end, if people didn't have any power, democracy and capitalism wouldn't work. We'd all be ruled by the elite and the corporations, and in some places, it's getting to be that way because power is getting taken away from the people. Freedoms, rights, and privileges are being taken away. You take away the people's power, and you no longer have democracy and capitalism. You have authoritarianism, and that's no different than the Nazism that everyone hates.

TL;DR: Sorry for the rant, but not everyone who honestly thinks you've made a mistake is trying to insult your intelligence. I certainly wasn't.

Have a good one.

— Paradox

smblion

6 years, 7 months ago

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you clearly don't know anything about Lennon, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yU0JuE1jTk

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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Communism isn't socialism....

Do a little research.

RoareyRaccoon

1 year, 6 months ago

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Yeah, it is. There are minor differences but the core of it is the same thing. Collectivist evil trash that destroys nations, starves and liquidates millions of people. Splitting hairs over the precise label for each minutely different brand of worthless shit is pointless. It's all to be regarded as filth for evil people.

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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Well that was a dishonest response. You watch too much Fox News.

You should know that America is part socialist: police departments, public schools, post office, fire department, social security, etc are all programs based on socialism.

Communism: limited, if any, private property can be owned by individuals
Socialism: you can have private property

Communism: requires violent revolution of workers to rise up against their employers and government.
Socialism: make changes benefiting working class via democratic means.

Seriously bro just calling things you don't like evil is exceptionally ignorant. Be open to learning and not walking a tight narrative, regorgetating talking points.

As a fellow white cis-male, it's fucking embarrassing.

RoareyRaccoon

1 year, 6 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 6 months ago by Owner

Nope, socialism is anti capitalist, anti property. It's in the founding literature. Everything run by the state isn't automatically socialist, rofl. Socialism is an economic system, public ownership of the means of production. Communism is the same shit, only you get there via dictatorship of the proletariat following violent revolution. It's laughable to pretend you're educated on the subject. Typical leftist scum, you like to change the definition of words to win an argument. Well it won't wash with me mate, I'm too experienced for you.

Also, I'm English, I don't watch Fox news or any other news network. Can't even get that right you fuckin chancer.

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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You're a bit too old to sound like an edgy 15 yo who spends too much time on /pol

You're just wrong on everything and you refuse education.

Sad.

RoareyRaccoon

1 year, 6 months ago

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I hope telling yourself that is comforting for you XP.

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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No, but your mom was comforting last night <3

CapitanBowlcut

6 years, 7 months ago

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You are the furry version of Dr. Jordan Peterson, and I mean that in the best possible way.

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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@ CapitanBowlcut

Peterson uses word salad to mask his racism and misogyny.

Roarey just fucking screams it.

Peterson is worse. He's a pussy.

RoareyRaccoon

1 year, 6 months ago

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Racism? Amazing, a leftist nonce saying I'm a bad person. Hysterical.

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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It was you crying about reverse racism that made me say that. Most of your political posts are incessant whining.

HellDoradoLion

6 years, 7 months ago

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yeah i really dont understand it at all.....

all these peeps saying communism is great, but why dont they want to move to russia or china or north korea?

while it IS an effective form of government for taking action and putting into motion laws and regulations, it is EASILY corrupt and human failing takes over SO fast

ZeloxQuo

6 years, 7 months ago

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Yes, absolutely yes.

It is sad to see folks decry the nazis (rightfully so) but then in the same breath promote communism.

In part, these are the ones who are trying to tear apart the furry subculture as well.

MrCoyote

6 years, 7 months ago

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For Latin America, the nazis and urss are just ghosts. For our country's the truly monster was the old EE UU and all the military dictatorship that they created for fight against the communist ideology. EE UU have the hands cover with blood, exacly like the nazis, urss, terrorists from the Islam, England and Spain. Then if you want to talk abouth vilians of the world will need more characters.

Kooskia

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ MrCoyote

As if this  people would care of the blood spilled by the CIA dogs goverments in Latin America.

To think that they even "joke" about throwing people off helicopter, a disgusting crime against humanity that obviously killed mostly unassociated people to the real guerrilla: peaceful political opponents (many of them neither "communists"),  relatives, or even suspected or just democrats who opposed the regimes.
But obviously none of these people care, or they just LAUGH over it.

I am wondering then, if they are allowed to make jokes and laugh over the crimes commited by the CIA-sponsered states in Latin America, are we allowed to laugh over the Jarhead crashing to their death when their OWN helicopter were knocked-down in the sky of Vietnam, or the ones who got roasted balls in their Humvees over IED in Iraq ?

When they say "Want a Free Helicopter Drive"? We could say  "What about an helicopter tour on La Son-719?"

MrCoyote

6 years, 7 months ago

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il mio bellissimo e virile italiano <3 No hay que enervarse la sangre apuntando cada crimen que han cometido, porque para ellos somos solo monos atrasados que siempre les van a responder con una sonrisa. Por eso con solo recordarles que ellos son tan crueles y ruines como esos enemigos a los que vencieron, ya es suficiente para que se les tuerza la cara y eso me hace feliz, la porquería no olvida.

RockySkunkPunk

6 years, 7 months ago

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Communists aren't talked abot cause we were allied with them for 10 mntes and then we snuffed anyne even remotely sympathetic to them within our borders during the cold war so comunism just became this giant joke, while neo nazis actualy existed, even if they are a garbage husk of the people they are aligned with. The only reason psuedo communist ae cming out of the woodwork now is because middleground are for pussies so intead of going toward an ideoogy tht actually makes sense, my radicalized brothers and sisters have decided that "communism is the best bet" even though they dont actually want communism, they just want anyone tht isnt them to suffer

RileyRivers

6 years, 7 months ago

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Socialism has the best PR campaign ever. Anytime a country goes Socialist and it goes bad, "No, No, they're Communists. They're not REAL Socialists."

Sangie

1 year, 6 months ago

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@ RileyRivers

Learn the difference. It's a quick Google away.

MaximilianUltimata

6 years, 7 months ago

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I've said this many times in the past, that going to any extreme in any direction is a horrible option, but then people seem to have been bladed chain-whipped into only thinking in absolute hyper-extremes these days.

You would argue capitalism is the best option out of all three, but then in recent years, we've seen capitalism at its worst and most corrupt, allowing companies to buy out the government to ease regulations on themselves at the detriment of others, stamp out competition, the beyond excessive greed that has crashed the economy twice over (see: all of the corporate scandals of the early 2000s and the housing market crash of the mid-2000s, and we can expect a third crash to happen soon), and with this administration, outright violating the Emoluments Clause in multiple ways to personally profit the people who seized power.

The ultimate tyranny, however, is pretending that the only options available to us are the absolute extremes of any three of these, disregarding the fact that America has plenty of socialist aspects already (social security, minimum wage, the US Post Office, virtually anything that has "public" in its name). We're constantly evolving, learning new ideas and adapting to the technologies that makes our lives easier on the whole. It's a grave disservice to pretend that the only socio-econo-political options available to us continue to and will only ever be the three 200-year old economic philosophies, and only the absolute extreme ends of them.

But then I've learned that trying to explain this concept to the average human these days is like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a gnat.

Kooskia

6 years, 7 months ago

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I am not expecting this message to be read by the artist, nor will be likely read by most of other commentors.
However i welcome open and civil debate, even if hopes to find it with some honesty keep growing thin and thin with time.
One main technical mistake done by this kind of political "assumption" is definying nazism and communism as "equal" ideologies labeled more commonly as "totalitarism" (or with less common terms, like the one used here).
As i said, this is the first mistake, that has both historical and pedagogical issues, easily explained as born by the US school-teaching, where (after the end of the WWII) the "Red Scare" of cold war was the main theme and it was important to try connect a direct line with all the enemies of freedom&democracy.
The mistakes has also economical roots: one key component it's ignoring the fact that the German Third Reich(aka Nazi Germany) was essentially a capitalist state. The support of German industries was infact the building powerhorse of the Nazi regime, both economically and both as effective mean to give the German people (just out of the post-WWI crisis) a way to earn a stable way of life. The same kind of economy was indeed structured in all the other Fascist states of the time (or the post-war US-backed ones, like Francoist Spain and the Greek military junta or the South American dictatorship: all nations with remarkable fascist rethoric). As a curiosity, these industries were never "brought down" by the demise of the regimes they backed up, but were simply repleaced by the "clensed" post-war US-backed societs (West Germany, Italy etc.) where former Nazis and Fascists involved in public amministration were simply retained in their positions (let not dig in the case of former SS members recruited).
A second key mistake it's that for some unexplained reasons the Nazis were ever the "bad guys". In the official western (USA, UK) view of the time, this was far from truth. For the whole pre-war timeline, good relationships were mantained and this reached a peak with facilitating the Hitler and Mussolini backing of Francisco Franco in Spain during the Spanish Civil War (the legittimate Spain Republic was supported during the war by Soviet Union... and Mexico). Curiosily, this often "crossed" with an explicit local support of Church and religious powers, who observed the Spanish Civil War as a "crusade" ultimately aiming to be exported against the bolshevik hordes.
I should remember also how the "hatred" by the capitalist nations (the USA the UK and the Nazi Germany) were ultimately originated by the same very cause: it is interesting how you speak of the "Millions" of death by communism (of this i would like to talk later), because so few in America are not eager to speak of the millions of death imposed by the capitalist nations. This did not included also the genocide and the massacres committed during the Cold War in the name of the anti-communist crusades (South American's regimes, Indonesia killings, Greek and Chinese civil wars etc.) but also the conflicts ingnited by ecomony interest for these capitalist nations that killed millions way BEFORE the 20th Century, since the Colonial wars, the Oppium Wars, culminating eventually to the First World War.
It should be clear to the ones who try to learn more about history that the First World War was NOT ignited by petty royal disputes, but it was the long-awaited conflict after decades of power-up of war industries and banks that were eager to earn more profit and make loans to their own nations: all this on the skin of millions of lives wasted.
Out of one of the most brutal conflict of history, something happened.
(too long continue next post)

Kooskia

6 years, 7 months ago

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The October Revolution was the true keystone outcome of the darkness of a sensless conflict: and it was no surprise it occurred in one of the most authoritarian and repressive absolute monarchies of the time, the Czarist Russia.
A nation that, due peculiar backwardness, did not saw the growth of a capitalist society: (let's remember that, on Marx's economic analyzes, the capitalist economy it's the necessary step to replace the medieval monarchies), essentially a ruined nation that saw already bloody repression of uprisings and revolts after the disastrous war with Japan (Tsushima battle).
Now let's move on the third big mistake.
Out of lack of study, likely imposed by the US school system, most of Americans have poor knowledge of the basis of Marx's thesis and theories (luckilly in some western european countries, Marx is a part of Philosophy programs in high school).
Essentially (and to make things extremely simple), while the final outcome of the Communism it's the built of a unified worldwide society charaterized by the classic "utopian" features (no language barriers, no money, no religion etc.), from Marxist theories there was a splintering of views and opinions on what achieve it, on what degree, on what purposes.
Thus it was the first split between pure Anarchists (who aim to build the the desired societ "here and now") the Communism (who realize the necessity to built-up militarized societies to defeat the capitalist nations) and the Socialists (who believe there is space to works within the capitalist socities with reforms and electoral partecipation).
To consider all these three branches "the same thing" it's pure ignorance, as it is ignorance to consider equal things the miriad of sub-division of each of them (too long to list).
To not understand these differences may brings you to some silly evaluations:like equalizing the Soviet Union history with "communism" (it was a nation that through its history experimented different adaptations of communism, including market-communism and eventually having a economic downfall for not being capable to implement and control this change).
This is particularly interesting, especially considering nowadays we have a couple of communist nations (China and Vietnam) who are respectively 1)the only competitor to the USA in terms of military and economy worldwide (and possibly already passed it) and 2) a smaller asiatic nation with an extremely ratio of growth.
Both nations successfully managed to adapt a mixed-economy while retaining the control to the communist party.
Other nations (Europe but not here) experienced and keep to experience a number of socialist and social-democrat countries who alternatively manage to win or score partial result on election, and have chances to implement changes to society.
All this while the USA still keep to live the "illusion" to have somewhat "win" a war during the Cold War, an illusion that should have ended after then year of absolute monopoly (1991 - 2001), but that nowadays after the so-called "War of Terror" has seen the growing dwindling power of USA: a nation who never solved the critical nature of living of on pure capitalism and eventually will pay dearly for this once depleted the local natural resources.
Signs of this are reasonably a big fear for conservative persons who enjoy a relatively good state of welfare and find solace in the kind of assurance of petty nationalist-pride: it is reasonable that conservative fear what ultimately will prove to be the only safety for a devastated nation(s).

AndrewShannon

6 years, 7 months ago

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Are you one of those people who can't see the difference between; Corporatism (fascist econ based on unionization under sate-run corporations), Regulatory Capitalism (light, medium, heavy), Welfare Capitalism (light, medium, heavy), Mercantilism (intervention in favor of mother state), Protectionism (tax or regulate imports for "national" benefit), Cronyism (subsidized and regulated to favor big companies that act as arms of the state, what the US has along with strict, daily-expanded regulation and ridiculously high welfare), and Laissez-faire (which can be divided into minarchists and full-on ancaps); and just call it all "capitalism" and act like it's all the same despite all having completely different outcomes and also ignoring spacing and closeness like the fact that say, Corporatism is much, much closer to socialism than it is to laissez-faire?

Kooskia

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ AndrewShannon

Nope, I am not one of those who "can't see the difference".
There is no difference at all xD
All the terms are born out of pseudo-economists attempting to legitimate or make sense with it.
Especially under the terms regurgitated by certain american analysts, in a quite weak attempt to envelope the economic system in some kind of "dignified" definition or trying to cover-up failures of the system.
This is particularly fun because such sub-divisions are often called up by right-wings folk with the cry "This is not the best form of capitalism we want! So you cant criticize it!". Pretty much the same when it happens with fellow socialists or comunists by the way, just I have the balls to say "Nope, communist it's meant to be dictatorship of proletarians" that means a society under the control of a communist party that's the only way needed to subvert the previous regime and face and fight the counter-revolutions. Concerning more specific usage of the terms, the "mirage" that capitalism can be in some way regulated it's somewhat explicit. Given the fact that in capitalist countries it's economy and capitalist sections of industries and bank that regulate the nations (and not the opposite), including propaganda and cover-up to make the people illusioned over "voting" democratically and thus having a word on the formation of goverments. Capitalism per-se it's exploitation of man and resources for personal individualist profit: things as "Mercantilism" are pure propaganda attepts or (in other cases) a deliberate control over the state to keep earning profits. This was especially true in some south american (and current african) nations where goverments are dominated or controlled by private companies. Same story for the other terms, with some specific words for the so-called "Protetionism" (aka: capitalist state doesn't work, so the goverment pump the industries with cash, at long-term expense for population) nor "Corporatism" a quite fake term invented to attempt define fascist nations and "hide" the fact they were simply normal capitalist state, just with the industrials and businessmen being member of the party and having a nazi pin on the dress.

AndrewShannon

6 years, 7 months ago

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You sure have a way of spouting long rambles of made up bullshit while calling other's words bullshit. I want and engage in criticism of all the different forms of "capitalism" because I am very much opposed to anything but anarchistic lassiez-faire because all the other systems compromise with socialists on some practical level and thus requires some arbitration and coercion. It doesn't matter if it's businessmen regulating the economy, it's regulation, therefore socialistic to some degree.

But since your ideological ass can look at pink, orange, purple, green and blue and call it all green, I can tell there is no reason to be talking with you, then.

Kooskia

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ AndrewShannon

Eh quite fun, when someone just point the basic clean reality behind fake words and get names like "ideological ass" lol
Insulting someone else it's just the ending point to every kind of debate, when one side prove unable to stress or explain its point and return to insult to hurt pride or general lack of replies or knowledge about the subject xd

The so-called "lassiez-faire" it's nothing more than supposed wild unregulated capitalism. That's by definition is quite useless, considering it's pretty much an already existing status in a good chunk of African nations or the very same US, where local capitalists, industrials and bank systems place their own men into politics to protect their own interests.
To define it "anarchistic" it's a "trendy/cool" term to attempt make this appear appealing or "alternative" when obviously have little to no reason to exists having no correlation with real Anarchism (in addition to keeping logical mistakes, because "Anarchism" it's not equal to "choas" or "unrregulated").

If you think that "socialism" has some way to "choke" capitalism in America, then I guess you're free to dream your "Red Scare" dream looking at dangerous evil commies lurking in the american seats of power. This fantasy will lead to nothing neither with a debate with a real socialist nor a right-wing conservative and it's doomed to stay in the category of utopian literature

cesar23

6 years, 7 months ago

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Agh this vvar is so fun we should have anotherone.

AsherTye

6 years, 7 months ago

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An interesting picture, though given some people's literal interpretation, I can see a few confusing the symbol for the meaning.  Though, while many deaths can be laid at communism's many glaring failures, it would be remiss to not include that a significant share of that was due to having a certifiable madman in charge, whereas fascism was simply a horrible idea all around based on a pseudoscience that, for some reason, still holds ground today.

This is the problem with any ideology, or anything really, taken too far and given no restraint.  They always wind up being self corruptible because those willing to wrap themselves in the most stringent philosophies can gather a large base of gullible fools. And at the risk of getting lynched, that does include capitalism, which left unchecked does cause it's own horrific casualty rate.

It begs the question why people are so gung-ho to try only a singular path, to operate only on one idea to the exclusion of the merits of any other.  Is it really so unbelievable that a moderate approach utilizing both ideas could function well?

damdum

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I became a furry to escape the harsh realties of real life, and it did work. Until now, all this fucking political bullshit I see everyday really pisses me off, I want my old lovely sub-culture back, the one I fell in love with.

Fuck nazis, fuck communists, fuck SJW, fuck skinheads, fuck Trump, fuck Hillary, fuck Putin, Fuck Obama, fuck everyone in this world, this is why we can't have nice things anymore!

RodTheWosky

6 years, 7 months ago

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nice, politics, just what we need

subjectm8

6 years, 7 months ago

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is this about the whole shit show that happen on furaffinity? cause as far as i know, the furry community is by far the most welcoming community i've ever seen.
sure people can be difficult or toxic or whatever adjetive you wanna use, but boy is it easy to make a doodle of a dog with a huge cock and call it a day and without noticing you're somehow accepted by everyone.
the whole "nazis/commies/old eldritch horrors aren't welcome to the X fandom" is a petty petty lie, because, like it or not, everyone is welcomed :o)

moyomongoose

6 years, 7 months ago

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Hmmm...Haven't seen these symbols posted in a while...I figured there'd be some drama here.

thecooler

6 years, 7 months ago

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hummm i wonder what is the body count on Capitalism?, you know with all the slaves and stuff that worked endlessly on the forging of all the first world countries?

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ thecooler

Not sure, but I think you'll find the 3rd world are so exploitable because they don't live in western democracies, so they have no rights to protect them. Might be awesome if they did.

thecooler

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

that was until the 60's maybe some still i dunno but at least where I live I can vote directly for who I want for president not for a group of people who then will vote for what they want for president I don't see how that is actually a democracy. the real problem is the people they end up electing its always a double face nation saler that pretty much lets every big country do what ever they what with us, but well I guess thats what Western democracy is about they got the guns they got the bombs you do as they say. they shall try and study the effects of sífilis on our mental incap patients undercover, they shall build us a train rail road that goes from Pacific to Atlantic, but only they can use, after sending troops to exterminate the protests of the native Americans that did not wanted that to cross threw their lands helping to commit genocide, so they can export stuff until they can literally build up a country to build a canal in, and another one to have a military camp next to where to extract oil from, ant thats just form one Western democracy, we can talk about the other 6 other "1st world countries" that had invaded us in promise of help. but thats all in the past now. is it?

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ thecooler

It's not a case of saying that capitalist democracies are perfect, because we all know they're flawed as hell. It's a question of what one thinks the alternative to them is. Every other system is several orders of magnitude worse. So while I'm completely fine with looking at where things are going wrong in capitalist democracies, I'm not going to focus on it while people are keeping infinitely worse alternatives on the table like communism and socialism.

thecooler

6 years, 7 months ago

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yea i know all isms suck in some way or the other but had to point out that communism and socialism are not the same thing, we actually had a socialist president ones he did great things for this country actually wanting to help the society and been the selfless and greedy-less person possible and got murdered by a good for nothing general who pushed us back into the 13 century and that act pushed up a civil war that lasted 36 years. you know cause its to dangerous to have a "communist" country so close to them after all we are just a couple of milles down Mexico. what saved cuba it is surrounded by water and thats also what screw up cuba, if a big country say to all the other countries to not deal with that country in fear of that big country you obey and that is how you shun a country.

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ thecooler

They aren't technically the same, but they both have the same goal. The public ownership of the means of production and a classless society. Both are impossible, the former always leads to a state which owns everything and then tyrannises people. They are the same in reality, if not on paper.

AndrewShannon

6 years, 7 months ago

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Rights are different from privileges as they are inherent. The state does not grant them, contrary to what modern liberals say. Even classical liberals still believed that rights are inherent (to them they were given by God) and that the role of the state was to protect them from bigger fish.

Also democracy does not equal freedom, in fact a democratic or republican state is expansionary by design. Time preference, dependence, how poorly educated the masses are, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYwcgQfh49k

The third world is exploitable because they are at a more primitive stage of development and there's so many regulations and taxes here in the first world that profit is easier made by "exploiting" the third world.

CoreMindsDark

6 years, 7 months ago

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One thing I'd like to say and I'm glad someone mentioned this issue, I don't believe the swastika should be unjustifibly demonized just because it was MISUSED.

With a'bit of research (as mensioned) the swastika has been around for thousands of years and has nothing to do with Nazis, aside from them utterly butchering the symbol and the positive meanings behind it. It's been in African culture, Viking culture and buduist culture.

I even have a character that bares the swastika becuase of it's positive representions in ancient culture. For me its Vikings because I love Norse mythology.

Educate yourselves people gawd dann it.

thecooler

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

yea i know all isms suck in some way... >_> I guess humans just suck in general.

PassingTraveler

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I wonder. Was it the ideology of Communism that was evil, or the people in charge of it at the time? Or a mixture of both?

RoareyRaccoon

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ PassingTraveler

Communism is evil because of the following:

1. The fundamental first step is the public ownership of the means of production.
2. This means everybody is supposed to own everything.
3. In practical terms, societies need organisation so they can decide how much of x, y and z to produce, where to send it, how to distribute it, how to educate the people required to do it, how to choose the people etc etc. So you need an administration which can make decisions.
4. In order to prevent pure chaos where nobody knows what the hell they're supposed to do, you need rules. In order to safeguard people from violence, abuse or invasion you need the rule of law, with the power invested in someone or some body to be able to enforce it.
5. This means you end up with a state power that owns and controls absolutely everything, and has a powerful force on its side, police and military.
6. That is a totalitarian state.

Communism HAS to lead to evil, therefore it IS evil. No system with genuinely benevolent intentions ends up with hundreds of millions of dead. And inevitable totalitarianism.

PassingTraveler

6 years, 7 months ago

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I see

Gitax

6 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner