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CPCTail

So about AI art

This is going to make me lose a bunch of watchers/followers, but that's alright; I have my opinion and you have yours.

With that out of the way, here's my take on it.  Let people have the ability to do things they otherwise were unable to do.

This AI uproar has the same energy as music artist had when people gained the ability to record things on blank cassettes.

The same energy when you suddenly were able to burn music/software/etc on CDs.

I'll even go so far as people complaining that pirating videogames are killing game developers.

Those were the complaints/fears.  The reality?  Music artists continued to thrive (if their music was good),  The complaining software companies continued making millions and videogame companies of all kinds (from indie to AAA) are popping up everywhere and hasn't came close to dying.

I'm an artist and it does take me hours/days/weeks/months to complete some of the things I craft.  It has taken a lot of time and effort to get to the 'meh' level that I'm at, but I'm happy with it.  It is a hobby for me.

One of the small benefits is that I'm able to draw things/characters in ways or styles that I'm clearly in the minority on enjoying ( example: Mobian characters with the canon blob feet style).  Because of this, I can fully understand the possible frustration of others who can't draw, don't have the time or patience to learn how to draw and/or the money for any of it.

People love to scream "commission an artist to do it!".  Not everyone has the cash to blow on a novelty as having an artist create a piece for them.  For responsible adults, there are many other things that take priority; such as bills, food, gas, clothes and even then the occasional curveball that life randomly drops on you, like a car accident or family member needing help.

Then there's finding the artist that draws in the style.  Using myself as an example, if I wasn't an artist, I'd be miserable trying to find an artist that DOESN'T draw things with obese thick ass or hips, uncut furry 'foreskin', humanoid feet, modern 'bean mouth' and many other things I don't like.  The few found, I'd also have to hope that they'd be willing to do NSFW things, if they're okay with certain kinks.  And then hope they're within a decent affordable price range.  And finally waiting for who knows how long for the commission to be finished:  Weeks, Months, even Years.

AI, is a tool that gives people who are unable to do it themselves and/or can't afford to pay someone else to do it; to try and create images that they wish to see.

This would have been a blessing tool to have if it had come when I was younger.  And though I do not use it nor have the patience to learn the specific commands to have an ai program create what is in my head; I am happy that others have a way to do just that.

AI isn't going to kill the already oversaturated artist market.  At present, ai art has the 'artificial' look to them.  It's not going to be replacing traditional or digital artists.

If you're worried about these people not commissioning you; chances are, they weren't thinking about commissioning anyone anyway.  Same with people pirating music/software.  You're not losing something that you weren't going to gain anyway.

For the record, I have all the ai keywords blocked, as I'm not a fan of the 'artificial' look they give.  But I am against people demanding to ban the art.  You guys are being no different than the people on FA demanding all the art that 'offends them' be banned.

And artists crying about their stuff not being on the popularity page, fucking grow up!  This is childish behavior.  How many artists NEVER get on the popular page?  Is your ego that fragile that the moment the spotlight isn't on you; you fall into an emotional distraught?  Seriously, grow up.  This site/the internet/the world doesn't revolve around you.

-------------------------

Related to this, I've hear artist raising a stink over people commissioning line art and then the person taking said lineart picture and having an ai color it.

If they paid for it; it's their picture now.  They can do what they want with it as far as I'm concerned.  Would you get upset if they took the same picture and just used the Fill Bucket tool on MSPaint to color the picture?

It's the same level as an author of a coloring book getting pissed that someone colored in it.  The same level as you buying a steak, but put ketchup on it instead of steak sauce.  If they paid for it, it's theirs to do as they please.

It comes back down to possible financial issues.  Again, times are tough and expensive; if someone wants to take line art and turn it into a DIY project, as long as they give credit to who drew the lineart, there should be no problem.

This said; anyone who had commissioned lineart from me or (whenever I open again) wish to commission lineart.  You are free to have it colored in ai, if you wish.  I do not mind it and if you want, let me see what the result is.  I'd be happy to take a gander.
Viewed: 118 times
Added: 2 years, 9 months ago
 
Hornybunny
2 years, 9 months ago
Wow, someone that's being reasonable.
macavity
2 years, 9 months ago
fair points yeah :)
DanielBunny
2 years, 9 months ago
Guessing this is prompted by a specific artist who goes over the top with this, making cheap personal attacks against anyone who may even agree but chose to leave their torches and pitchforks at home, pulling most of their gallery from IB (in a self-fulfilling prophecy regarding their art not being seen by anyone), and going so far as to claim that "FA respects artists more than IB", you know, nevermind the ones who were harassed, doxxed, threatened, and blackmailed on FA with complicit staff.

As for AI, I'm more in the "wait and see" camp. Personally, I don't believe it will replace commissions. And even if it did, there's really not much harm to do with artists doing commissions less and less preferring instead to hard-paywall their shit to make money (and hard-paywall commissions which is just another level of gross). Even so, I highly doubt that AI will EVER reach the level of intuition that many artists have, reading between the lines in commission descriptions to draw something that wasn't explicitly asked for, but still asked for.
WhiteSky
2 years, 9 months ago
I have to agree with those points. It feels like people might be afraid of the capabilities AI might have in the future. But it's just a guess. And even if the guess is right, technology will still advance regardless of what people think. It's just trying to learn to live with it, I suppose. Just some thoughts though as I'm no expert.
Daneasaur
2 years, 9 months ago
"AI, is a tool that gives people who are unable to do it themselves and/or can't afford to pay someone else to do it; to try and create images that they wish to see."

This is false. "AI" programs that are anything above shitposts like " king kong eating a hotdog" are pay to use and are many many times more expensive to use than any commission.

These users are also not "making" anything ,they are stealing, flat and simple.
CPCTail
2 years, 9 months ago
Just I said in the beginning; this is on par with music artist thinking you recording their music is Stealing.  Even today, you can download a song, copy it as many times as you want and share it with as many people that you want.  Technically, this is stealing.

And I guess, technically, I'm stealing too.  Seeing that I draw other companies IP.  I have taken commissions to draw characters that I don't own for profit.  Some commissions have asked me to draw said characters in poses/positions that other artists have as a reference.

You have your opinion and I have mine.  This is my view on things.

So I guess, by your definition, I am also a thief.  Just I use different tools to create said art instead of an AI program.
bbbuuu
2 years, 9 months ago
See, though, there's a key difference here; AI 'art', has to essentially take the work of other people, many of which who did not consent to having their pictures (their time and effort and the years it took to learn how to do this) used to 'teach' the program to draw. You can even actually see watermarks in some of the AI art (NovelAI for example, will have distorted watermarks on the bottom) and there are already people (not actual artists, but 'AI artists' as much of an oxymoron that that term is) who talk about trying to get them to copy specific artist's styles. Which, would indeed start to effect actual artists. Why would you bother commissioning someone with a distinct style, and their likely expensive prices, when you can just get an AI to do it for free, or for like 20$ to use a paid AI for a month to get the same thing?

Now, I'm not totally against it; but I see the ways that people are already rubbing their hands together, thinking of ways to abuse it, like the above. For example, I don't think you should be able to make money selling AI art, unless that AI is ONLY trained by artists who have agreed to have their art sampled to teach it, because then they would be getting a cut of that money most likely. There are already people who sell AI Adoptables lol, which, I think you'd kind of have to be a sucker to buy that, and the sellers, unless they're using a custom AI that only learns on THEIR art, is essentially just sucking data off of other artists, to make that image. I think almost everyone should have a problem with greedy entertainment media companies thinking of using AI to replace artists and writers, because it's cheaper (of course, some might argue entertainment media sucks so hard right now that you may not be able to tell the difference lol).

I think there'd be less of a problem, if they stopped calling it AI 'art' and the prompters who generate the images 'AI Artists', because it separates real art, and real artists, from Joe Blow, who can type words in a keyboard and hit enter. It would separate it from real people's work, and make two markets, which I personally think would be better. If you wanna just use a free AI generator or a paid AI generator, (or be crazy enough to purchase someone else's generated art lol), that's all cool then! But if you want an authentic image drawn or painted by someone, like usual, then you have the regular artists.  

I've used AI image generators for fun, and also used NovelAI to essentially do RP with an AI. I would never even imagine or consider trying to 'write' a story with an AI, and sell it for actual money, it would be dishonest. It's just a toy, not a tool. It's not something anyone should seriously be trying to turn into a way to make money, beyond the programmers who design the AI. A few people I watch post a lot of journals bitching about AI, and the thing is, they have a point. SFM stuff gets slapped by the mods here, for 'not being made with your own material', but AI art, which, literally takes art that is NOT their material, and makes a 'drawing' with it, and takes pretty much zero effort, is somehow allowed? Why, because they can type 'Big Ass, Blue Vixen, Itty Bitty Titty Committee' into a prompt bar, and hit enter lol, so the AI can suck pictures of Krystal from Starfox in, and make something similar? That ain't art, it's fiddling with a generator til it spits out something vaguely close to what you're wanting. Not that some of it can't look cool, but you didn't make that, you know? I can throw a TV Dinner in the microwave, that doesn't make me a chef lol.

I totally understand why artists are annoyed, that these people who don't actually draw, or make anything, are literally getting front page popular, after having an account for one day, because they're posting something that took 2 seconds to 'make' by typing keywords into a generator, and in some cases, probably feeding it an actual artist's image as a base lol.
CPCTail
2 years, 9 months ago
I see what you're saying and my mind also thought about the SFM issue that we had in the past.  One of the differences between the two is that with SFM, you saw mostly the same models used over and over again, but used by different people.  And that quickly got old.

People making money off it is kinda grimy, I'll admit that.  But I thing this is blown way out of proportion.  And for a lot of artist (not all, clearly), this complaining is more about greed than 'they're stealing artwork'.  Not wanting others to have a different outlet to get what they like.  Can't make money that way, right?

At the end of the day, I'm just one of the few artist who can see this ai thing differently.  Maybe it is a stretch to call it 'art'....maybe it isn't.  Look what modern 'art' is now a days.  There are people who consider the SFM poses that are overly used as 'art'.  Everyone's view is different.
KevinSnowpaw
2 years, 9 months ago
I dont think it's the "same energy" as you put it. My personal Take I have no issue with AI Art existing.


I DO have issue with it clogging up an Art Gallery Website. I dont personally think it's "art"  it's a fun tool or an amusing toy. When it takes attention away from real artists it becomes a problem.


Even with it black listed in my preferences I Still See blank blocked X thumb nails cluttering up my popular feed, and ive seen more then a few deplorable attempts to monetize access to AI generated materials.


This Cancer must be pulled out by the root before it festers.
CPCTail
2 years, 9 months ago
" I DO have issue with it clogging up an Art Gallery Website. I dont personally think it's "art"  it's a fun tool or an amusing toy. When it takes attention away from real artists it becomes a problem.


As of right now, calling it a toy might be a bit more accurate in a way.  It's something new and people are playing with it.  Another person and mention SFM thing and had a big flood when it was new.  Mind you, that got banned, but from what I can tell outside this website, it's calmed down.

I think AI is going through the same thing as in, it's just new to play with.  I do believe in time, it'll mellow out.  I don't believe it needs to have the uproar that it's received.

" Even with it black listed in my preferences I Still See blank blocked X thumb nails cluttering up my popular feed, and ive seen more then a few deplorable attempts to monetize access to AI generated materials


Forgot the 'X' thing was an option lol.  I have it turned off, so I am ignorant to how much is being posted, I'll admit that.  As I've said to a few others on this journal, I do find people trying to make money off of this as grimey.  But looking past those, I still am looking at this in the perspective of those can't draw, don't have the time or patience to learn or don't have the money to afford the ever increasing commission prices.
KevinSnowpaw
2 years, 9 months ago
" CPCTail wrote:
" I still am looking at this in the perspective of those can't draw, don't have the time or patience to learn or don't have the money to afford the ever increasing commission prices.


thats a valid point...and to some dagree thats also unavoidable so i wont make a comment about how it might hurt the artist camunity it's here, we have it so it will do what it will.

still dont think punching keywords into an AI and clicking generate should be something you can claim as art or your creation and then post it on an art site =p keep it to image boards.
mudpaws
2 years, 9 months ago
I see no real problem with AI , it's not a copy boy and it really does take a lot to get a picture to look just right, I know I have been playing around with a lot of the AI art generators out there a lot of them are free to get only for 3 to 7 days then you have to pay for them and even then some of them are not worth it , I been trying to make anything that is sexual type pictures and none of them will let you doit from a message saying do to API this can not be made and most of what I did get looked very scary not a cute mouseboy or a bunny girl nude , I don't know what or how people are making the pictures they are, but id like to, and id only post stuff I made from my own idea not someone else's work .
lupinotter
2 years, 9 months ago
still it is not good and is causing many to lose their commissions as well if you can't draw practice if you do not then you are never going to be an artist period and if your too lay too you can never express yourself from yourself just some program and machine is doing it for you that is not individuality it is laziness this is exactly what was said in the song by Zaeger and Evans in the year 2525 the part of no eyes or body parts you have a machine doing that for you too i couldn't even draw a stick figure before i met my inspiration My teacher and now very BFF he inspired me to keep at it and go the distance i guess everyone lost that inspiration they lack that fire that mentality what next they are to lay to even use the bathroom, and no i wont commission anything in AI that is not art color it yourself like what is wrong with you, it is like not wanting to breath or drink water just have a machine do that for you id understand if you were in a wreck but just everyday life in itself is just giving up on everything, and all art takes time that is when you put yourself into the art a part of you in every picture let it be paper tablet or canvas it takes time and the thirst to make it beautiful by your own hand not something Elses program with no soul i get financial issues too but i don't give up and get lazy i stay the path and keep going til i make it no matter what my BFF taught me that so did my Great grand uncle, if your to lazy to do the whole picture yourself lineart color and everything then don't bother trying in the first place go out and work like everyone else has to or get to it and draw like a real artist that is if your up to the actual challenge this is not advanced calculus here this is art done by you not someone or something else.
lupinotter
2 years, 9 months ago
thing is AI art or coloring gives no credit period it takes and never gives back Ai never pays and the fill bucket and copies of the line art is exactly like the stupid now dead fad of NFT'S it died faster a 5 cent comedian opening in Coney Island and also i don't pay for line art i do it myself and ask permission to the original creator of the line art to make my variant of it i don't take it like some greedy 5 year old brat just pure laziness through n through n anyone who uses Ai for anything.
Waccoon
2 years, 9 months ago
The problem is that most people have no technical understanding of how AI works.  Even if they think they do, they really don't... because there's many different implementations.

The AI that has an artificial look to it is the type that uses pure stable diffusion, and it looks like crap.  That form of AI has largely disappeared already.  The "new" AI systems look much, much better, because they rely less on stable diffusion and more on pattern ranking.  Turns out, cheating is always easier than putting in real effort.  Who knew?

" Let people have the ability to do things they otherwise were unable to do.


They already can.  It comes in the form of tracing, collage, or outright copy-and-paste.  People get banned for that.

Saying that AI generation is acceptable as an artist tool is like saying tracing is okay and should be the norm.  That's why people are upset.  AI proponents are desperately trying to convince themselves that AI does not commit infringement (and that may have been partially true at first), but all the newest AI tools do exactly that, because it's easier and takes less computing power.

" At present, ai art has the 'artificial' look to them.  It's not going to be replacing traditional or digital artists.


AI will look far less artificial over time.  You'll see.  The future of most art will be, "Make me something that looks like this, but with a few changes."  The only limit to how far this will go is how high the AI subscription fees will get.

Ultimately, AI won't drive artists out of business, but it will replace them, since they won't do their own art anymore.  They'll just be arbiters for the AI subscription fees.  That's sad.

In the commercial art industry, this will be the norm and artists will still have jobs.  Commercial art is used for a real purpose (like advertising) and has value regardless of who created it.  For the hobby art industry... I don't know.  Furry art has no commercial value and is little more than an ego boost.  If I know the art isn't actually done by the artist, then I sure as hell won't pay for it.

" If you're worried about these people not commissioning you; chances are, they weren't thinking about commissioning anyone anyway.


Bull.  I used to get tons of commissions.  I've spent upwards of $10,000 over the last 20 years.

I completely stopped buying commissions after COVID.  What happened is that everyone quadrupled their prices for no damn reason and everyone got super lazy.  Nothing but stupidly expensive YCH auctions along with a million "reminders" a day, and tons of cheaply recolored adopts for $100 a pop.  WTF?

My standards aren't high because I like the charming look of amateur art.  But, I don't pay for laziness or false professionalism.  Go ahead and convince me that AI will make the situation better.
CPCTail
2 years, 9 months ago
" The AI that has an artificial look to it is the type that uses pure stable diffusion, and it looks like crap.  That form of AI has largely disappeared already.  The "new" AI systems look much, much better, because they rely less on stable diffusion and more on pattern ranking.  Turns out, cheating is always easier than putting in real effort.  Who knew?


Okay, in my defense on this; I saw it, shrugged and stopped paying attention.  As stated, I blocked the tags and moved on from there.  I didn't bother getting into how it worked since none of it interested me.  Even with the little bit you said there I kinda just scratched my head a little.

" AI will look far less artificial over time.  You'll see.  The future of most art will be, "Make me something that looks like this, but with a few changes."  The only limit to how far this will go is how high the AI subscription fees will get.


I'm not foolish enough to think that things won't improve (mind you, it's moving faster than I thought.).  That said, I still do not feel that AI art is going to be the primary replacement for furry art.  As I said to another, I think it's being blown out of proportion by people who artist who came into the fandom with dollar signs in there eyes.

" Bull.  I used to get tons of commissions.  I've spent upwards of $10,000 over the last 20 years.


This statement was towards people who never planned on it and was never going to whether ai programs existed or not.  This is why I made the comparison to CD burning and pirating.  A more modern example is that there's a piracy website that's dedicated on sharing pictures off people's Patreon, Gumroad, Subscribestar, etc. (note for anyone else reading this, No I will not provide you with the name or link of said site).  Point is, there are people out there who aren't going to pay for things.  That's always been the life of the internet, sadly.

" I completely stopped buying commissions after COVID.  What happened is that everyone quadrupled their prices for no damn reason and everyone got super lazy.  Nothing but stupidly expensive YCH auctions along with a million "reminders" a day, and tons of cheaply recolored adopts for $100 a pop.  WTF?


I'm with you on all of this right here.  No argument.

" My standards aren't high because I like the charming look of amateur art.  But, I don't pay for laziness or false professionalism.  Go ahead and convince me that AI will make the situation better.


I'm not trying to convince you that it's going to make things better.  I'm just looking at this from a different angle.  From the perspective of people who can't do it themselves or can't find or afford to have someone that can do it for them.  I'm not saying that people who are making money off of it isn't dirty.  But I do think that this is being over blown.

This is my opinion of it, anyway.  And I can be shown that I was completely off base in time.  But as of present, this is how I see it.
supremekitten
2 years, 9 months ago
People increase prices because the cost of living increase, and artists on the internet constantly run on or below minimum wage, that could be a very easy explanation. Everybody increased their prices, not just artists. On top of covid there is also russia, this all has increased global prices, for energy, food, living, and so likewise artists had to increase their prices. That is a very easy explanation for at least some increase and prices. If people got ill and had to pay for drugs for example that could have further increased prices.
Crimzinx
2 years, 9 months ago
Solid statements made here. Of course there are valid concerns regarding Ai images and the frequency at which they are being produced and uploaded here. Often bloating the space with iterations of the same images. The response however in effort to ban content not acceptable by a group of individuals does nothing more than remind me why inkbunny has come to exist, I disliked the Sfm Ban for a very similar reason.

My stance often relies upon the individual to simply live and let live. The tags exist for blacklisting and I have not seen a shred of the images on here, this takes only a moment of any user's time to simply add the keywords and move on. Ai is still in it's early stages and I do have concerns of it's use as a monetizing tool for the Ai prompters using it as I do not feel the cost vs effort is remotely the same as what is produced by an artist on canvas. Despite this, I believe Ai prompters can have a myriad of reasons as to why they use it but to assume it's malicious is a bit presumptious on those who oppose it.
supremekitten
2 years, 9 months ago
I want full unlimited access to free AI which will let me generate any and every type of porn I can imagine and desire based on my very specific desires, compositions and ideas which almost no other artist would even want to draw, and which is too tedious and boring to draw for me but which i want to see created anyway. Anyone who gets in my way on this is my enemy. Anyone who wants to limit my access to this is my enemy.

With that said, to say that the development of more sophisticated tools doesn't limit the market for artists is stupid beyond belief, it does, very much so, it creates pressure on artists to either work more for less money or to not work at all for money. There are constant layoffs and artists are treated awfully in the industry, and paid obscenely low amounts of money on the internet for the amount of work they do. The market for artists is already garbage, and it is partially due to the tools, and AI is one of many such things, the more sophisticated it gets the worse it will be.

To people who say nobody will make art without being paid for it, stop lying, I made a ton of art in my life and got paid for very little of it, i would have made it regardless, because i wanted to make it, if you never wanted to make art just for your own desire to make art then indeed you aren't an artist and never will be, I'm gatekeeping you, your shitty mobile game with endless paywalls isn't art, it's a crappy scam. And also AAA games suck dick. Most of the hyper-expensive "art" sucks dick, yes, that's what I think, this includes all the stupid shitty superhero movies over last decade, they suck, I don't watch them, i don't like them..

I have seen a lot of AI generated porn, and none of it impressed me, not because I hate it as a concept, but because it lacks certain qualities the way it is right now. AI generated images feel "soulless" not because they are AI generated, but because the AI is still stupid and doesn't understand anything about what makes an image good. I feel more meaning in the way a character is expressed by a child's crayon drawing than the highly detailed 3d render of current AI's, maybe that's just me but it just lacks, it lacks expression, intent, the elements on the image lack purpose, it always feels like the characters are just meaninglessly standing there staring in space, it ranges from suck to barely acceptable, the images don't tell a story, they have issues. The people who generate these images would have to engage in a high degree of manual redrawing if they want these images to be good, they don't, so the images aren't good, the AI by itself cannot do it as far as I've seen so far. This does lead to instances of flooding of low quality art which appears high quality on surface but is repetitive and deeply lacking on closer inspection. I don't care if it has a similar style to some artist, but I don't like being flooded by lots of same-ish bad images. And that doesn't even get into the still ever-present problem of added limbs, broken anatomy, fucked up fingers and general cryptids. Allegedly premium midjourney solved the problem of fucked up hands but the AI porn I see everywhere has not. This goes the same for text generating AI, it generates garbage, but you can edit and reconstruct that garbage into some fun stuff if you know what you're doing. Btw chatgpt fucking sucks, it's the most annoying chatbot i ever talked to, i hate it so much, it's bottom tier, the endless moralizing, patronizing, gaslighting, whining and disclaimers make me want to kill myself (figuratively), I played with it until i had enough and couldn't stand it anymore, fortunately there are better things which just generate what you tell them to.
Delquea
2 years, 9 months ago
I mainly use AI (or want to XD too impatient to do so) to create good art references to draw or use as commissions c:
I see no issue with it so long as people dont charge money for people who wanna see something specific via AI art.
supremekitten
2 years, 9 months ago
" AI isn't going to kill the already oversaturated artist market.  At present, ai art has the 'artificial' look to them.  It's not going to be replacing traditional or digital artists.


AI is adding more pressure to the already oversaturated artist market, where writers and actors are protesting low wages as we speak, which large corporations cheerfully speak about wanting to literally starve those artists out. It always trickles down, when less artists have work in game studios or in AAA productions, they look for work elsewhere, then the lower tier artists loose their work, and/or push those artists below them out of their work, such things trickle down. The people who actually want to make money on making art have plenty of reason to complain and be worried about AI. Also everybody starts as a bottom tier unpopular artist, with a tighter market and less opportunities they are more likely to never reach a sufficiently high quality or popularity level to "break through", which in turn decreases the overall pool of skilled artists, and "quality" art, furthermore it incentivizes more low quality mass generate commercial art which focuses even more on making money and less on quality, more on exploitative prices, cash shops and advertisement, etc. this is the counterargument. In a tight market the only people who sell things are the ones who are the most cutthroat and exploitative. This doesn't mean the death of art, but it is something to consider.
BogdanUrs
2 years, 9 months ago
fully agree - nice to see someone else around here who is supportive of AI art

i have never understood what all the whining was about lol. pretty pathetic that people can be jealous of an AI xD
Klorsis
2 years, 9 months ago
AI has been coming for years and very few cared to voice opinions to guide it's development. It's unfortunate that the popular opinion of it now that it's *here* in this form of art that it's "going to take all the work from our artists".  That's not the case. If you're smart you're going to be at the very least learning what it is capable of doing so you can remain competitive with artists whom learn to use it as a tool to enhance their works. We as people always want to improve right?  Welcome to the next level!

AI has been in photography for somewhere around 10 years now. Anyone I know that simply refused to acknowledge AI tools more or less 'nope-d themselves right out of work' simply because they couldn't or refused to see why it was a desirable tool for even something as basic as color or brightness/contrast level balancing.

The people that are using it to totally generate images are a necessary part of the development of it too. Not only does it refine what the tool can do and how it's used, we also learn the capabilities of the tools as they progress.  Yes it's going to get very hard to tell the difference... to the point of you need to spend time to know what to look for, but we'll always be able to tell if we take that time to see it.

Look, these tools are going to ultimately save people a lot of time if they choose to use them to enhance their skills, but it will not be a requirement nor will it replace every artist.

There are more photographers than ever and we're getting along just fine with the tools.
TailsyFox
2 years, 9 months ago
Music artists was a good example to compare it to since in the end it's really just about artists wanting more and more money, since AI art can look really good for little effort and for real cheap this angers them because artists feel that if they don't surpass that art and lower their prices they wont get as many commissions anymore.

I personally think as long as AI art looks good and people like it then it shouldn't be taken away from them just because some artist's wanna do it for a living rather then as a hobby.

I took commercial art for a couple years and my teacher always told me if you want to make a living as an artist your best bet is advertising unless your really good and have a lot of commissioners.
BladeRunner
2 years, 9 months ago
I think AI art as a tool is amazing. I have no issues with it.

I do think we need some legislation around ethically training AI, and maybe a tax for businesses over a certain size that use AI tools. Otherwise I am fine with it.

I do also wish it didn't clog up art sites focused on human-made art, but its a very minor complaint for me.
Kavukamari
2 years, 9 months ago
hopefully instead of bothering artists and getting pissed they won't do free art, the people who always ask for requests will go to the ai users instead to get the hundreds of pictures nobody wants to draw of a specific character doing a weird fetish, i always see those people especially in the drawthreads on 4chan (it's the reason nobody really uses them anymore, seemingly, way more requests nobody wants to do than requests actually getting made)

I always think of all the stories i hear of people asking artists to draw something wildly specific that would be a hundreds of dollar commission, and then saying "well your art is shit anyway" when the artist, reasonably, turns them down because they're not gunna pay. I feel like this is the perfect solution, they can ask someone to generate it up for them, see their idea become a reality, even if it's sloppy, and then they don't have to bother artists to draw their really specific pictures
spoonybard
2 years, 9 months ago
THANK you.  I've got aphantasia, so being able to use AI art to finally have the capability to visualize an idea feels like a superpower.

And it's extra frustrating how this means I can finally show artists an idea of what I want for a commission, but so many artists will be like, "you prototyped your commission with AI?  I'm blocking you permanently."

I'm trying to give you money, dipshit, and you're telling me to fuck off because...why, exactly?  "AI art will hurt my business!" Eeeexcept I wouldn't have commissioned you, or anyone, if I wasn't able to create this mockup, so in this case you're as wrong as you could possibly be.
MADJerk
2 years, 5 months ago
Well-well, console yourself that AI generators "just a tool" and will not completely replace artists. In commercial terms. Of course, no generator takes away a person's right to engage in drawing as a hobby.
It's like the situation with the machines that killed the profession of artisans. Why would any person order a pot from a potter for 10 coins when he can go and buy the same pot made in a mass batch on a machine, but for 1 coin?
However, in the case of AI generators, it's still funnier, considering that you can get a bunch of drawings there for FREE.

Are there many potters now who make a living by producing and selling pots? No. Because an ordinary person just goes to the local Wal-Mart and takes a typical pot there for a couple of bucks.
So a bright future is not far off, when a very-very-very rare customer will be a great holiday for a human artist.
CPCTail
2 years, 5 months ago
I believe the analogy with with the ability to record to cassette tapes, burn music and software on CDs and even pirating software/videogames is a much better comparison to AI and artists.

Why buy music when you can get it free?  Why buy software when you can torrent it?  Especially music; it's easier than ever to find high quality tracks from any artist on the internet.  Yet, the music industry is still thriving.

As for artist, I've been spectating things months after I've made this journal.  Artists are still getting commissions.  Art sites like this one hasn't died due to allowing AI art.  World is still turning..

The complaints I see are from the people who screamed that AI is the death to artist since day one.  For the most part; a majority of artists are either neutral or don't care.
MADJerk
2 years, 5 months ago
Mm, no. Pirated distribution of music, movies and programs is NOT equal to the CREATION of music, movies and programs by a special AI program at the user's request. Do not confuse the DISTRIBUTION of the made file and the actual PRODUCTION of the file itself.


Real live artists keep afloat and receive commissions for that moment only because AI generators have not yet reached their perfection. So far, most of them are still clumsy and "wooden" and unsatisfactorily satisfy user requests. HOWEVER, the development of neural networks is progressing rapidly, and even now individual AI generators are able to surprise with the quality of work.

For example, the gallery of this person consists entirely of AI-generated images.
[largethumb]3109951[/largethumb]

 And damn, they're pretty good! I tried this generator myself, to which the author left a link - it's a pretty good AI image generator! With the fact that the CivitAI website is still raw and still in active development.

The more AI generators are improved, the more human artists will be sidelined commercially. Why pay 15 bucks for a drawing from some person when you can generate the same drawing in quality in an AI generator for FREE?
CPCTail
2 years, 5 months ago
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.  Even with AI improving i don't see it replacing artists at all.
MADJerk
2 years, 5 months ago
I agree that AI generators will never be able to destroy ARTISTS' FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Just as the machines could not take away the right of any person to make a clay pot for himself/herself by his/her own hands.
But in commercial terms, such a rapid development of neural networks is very bad for living artists. Since this buries the need of the mass consumer for the services of these very living artists.

Of course, artists will not die out in the near future. However, 0.5 people will use their commercial services.
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