Inkbunny

I think you misread my sentences here. I nowhere near belief that we should allow pure AI generated stuffs mixed with regular gallery. But you can't deny that AI can be useful for legitimate use by artists too. Imagine it can be perfect for background works, composition aid, and references.

Love it or hate it AI is here to stay. We have to learn to use it instead of just trying denying the invertible.

eeveefan

2 years, 1 month ago

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"Love it or hate it AI is here to stay."
jesus christ now your sounding like them idiots from deviant art trying to push this on us and force us to accept it. please stop with the cringe.
AI art should not be allowed to be posted in any way, shape or form. i already see people selling AI generated adopts and i think this is obviously a scam.

now look, i find AI generated art fascinating and i believe artists can use this to create backgrounds and get inspiration for new char designs, environment designs, backgrounds, DND areas, etc. however... i do NOT think these arts generated by the AI should be posted nor do i believe people should be attempting to monetize this type of thing.

you do not need to use ai art to generate backgrounds for you so you can be lazy, art has passion put into it and when you take the passion aspect out of it then whats left? it feels empty.

"Imagine it can be perfect for background works, composition aid, and references."
REFRENCES is the key word there. its not to be used as a lazy alternative to get things done quicker. i am all for using AI arts for inspiration and practice, however i will not support using it for anything other then that.

"We have to learn to use it instead of just trying denying the invertible."
we dont HAVE to do anything. we dont want it yet people, much like yourself, are trying to force AI generated acceptions down our throats. YOU can go ahead and give up and accept this, however most traditional artists wont.
"Love it or hate it AI is here to stay"
its not. whats the point in art when you can get an AI to do it for you? theres way to many scammers out there trying to scam people of money for AI generated crap. even if it looks good its stealing from other artists styles, etc. you think this is acceptable?

Etis

2 years, 1 month ago

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Luddism never wins. It can only delay the inevitable.

RobbyBunny

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

You realise who you're replying to right? You're accusing Xennos of trying to force ai-generated images on you on a journal in which Xennos is condemning Inkbunny staffs decision to allow ai-generated art. Do you realise how silly that looks?

He is correct, like it or not, ai isn't going away and people are going to use it irrespective of how we feel. All we can do as a community is disavow it and encourage the staff to ban wholly and mostly ai generated art from the platform.

AI isn't explicitly bad to be clear either and Xennos recognises this. AI is merely a tool that can be incorporated into the artistic process like any other. It can be used to create textures, background elements and help upscale, smooth an image or render. It can also be used to help interpolate frames for animation etc. Like photoshop, which can be used to trace or manipulate other people's art, it is entirely dependent on how it is used.

eeveefan

2 years, 1 month ago

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"You realise who you're replying to right?"
yes, another artist like myself. im sorry if im sounding hostile but maybe he should better how he says things. because the way he said some things made it sound bad.

"He is correct, like it or not, ai isn't going away and people are going to use it irrespective of how we feel. All we can do as a community is disavow it and encourage the staff to ban wholly and mostly ai generated art from the platform."

this is what i mean though, AI art should ONLY be used for inspiration, improving your art, or creating things to draw inspirations on for ideas like new chars, backgrounds, settings, etc. not to make money off of or scam people or even be forced into our minds as "real art". it isnt and never will be.

"AI isn't explicitly bad to be clear either and Xennos recognises this. AI is merely a tool that can be incorporated into the artistic process like any other. It can be used to create textures, background elements and help upscale, smooth an image or render. It can also be used to help interpolate frames for animation etc. Like photoshop, which can be used to trace or manipulate other people's art, it is entirely dependent on how it is used."

im aware of this, i dont think its necessarily a bad thing either. but i just dont want it becoming a thing where people run these ai generated scams and adopts and whatnot. cause ai generated things can make tons and tons of art in mere minutes and people can abuse this to make countless adopts, etc from it and flood sites with ai generated adopts hoping to make a quick buck.

to Xennos, sorry for being a bit hostile, its just this whole thing from DA has gotten me quite upset over how many people are starting to try scams and whatnot with this method. the people at DA were also trying to force this down our throats to (trust me cause i seen the stream they did).

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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I truly understand your frustration believe me I do! Also you have to understand that this is my livelihood and my passion too and all of this starting to get me into an anxiety myself not gonna lie. But my stances still remain true I'm not a type to willingly lie down and die without a fight. So if I gonna have to use AI to achieve my new height pure AI arts can never hope to achieve? Then so be it!

As for my choice of wordings I honest don't see why I deserve your attacks honestly. But maybe because English is not my native language. So if that's the case I'm sorry it looks to you that way.

eeveefan

2 years, 1 month ago

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yeah that maybe it then. english isnt your native language so there was some miscommunication there in regards to that. and i forgot your not a native english speaker to so yeah i guess bads on both our parts. x.x
i still wont be using ai to improve my art in any way, shape for form. i myself have to put in that time and effort to get better and detail everything myself, not let some AI help me.
im a beginner anyways so my art sucks. but even then its up to me to get better to make it suck less. i dont need an AI to tell me how to draw my buns or my bunette. if i do use it in the future though ill only use it for inspiration and seeing what types of designs i can come out with. (i am looking for more bun designs so maybe i could come up with an idea with an AI in combinations with other species to but who knows.) backgrounds are hard for me to..... well.... everything is.. -w-
so idk i might use it for ideas if anything.
i wanna become a good artist someday, sooooooo hopefully i can get there >.>

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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I see it more like time saving tools more than anything really. Like have it do something I already knew or mastered. So I can just focus on something else I want to focus on improving etc.

Labyrias

1 month, 4 weeks ago

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You seem to be confused.
Nobody is forcing anything down your throat. AI exists. Whether or not you come to terms with that is a you problem.

And yes, you do sound like a luddite.
Read some about them and figure out whether or not humanity/society gave a damn about the whining and destruction.

Labyrias

1 month, 4 weeks ago

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Also it would probably go a long way if you were just straight and forward with what you mean.
You dislike competition.
If i were to charge 300$ for a digital image, i would be really really disliking it as well, but thats part and parcel of why those who know the inner workings of the art community and/or have been around for a while, have very little tolerance towards the complaints of artists.

Im more than 4 decades old. I watched the internet be born, grow and fall apart into the mess it is today.
I was holding my head more than 20 years ago, having to listen to the lot of you constantly doing hardcore drama about tracing works, stealing positions and color palettes, reposting, eating eachother over the smallest of things, and im gonna be honest: I have very little sympathy left for the entire artist circle.
There are plenty of exceptions im sure and i do not want to stereotype, but the narcissistic, constantly whining over the smallest little things kind of personality archetype, who then turns around and skins customers without the bat of an eye, lives pretty vividly inside of me.

SO!
Feel free to copyright and trademark your art, then spend the rest of your life trying to find stuff thats similar to yours like in the good old days, and sue people for it.
Everybody gets it. Uncle scrooge is very envious and upset over both losing out on money and having to deal with competition, but as far as this story goes, there is absolutely no difference between me intentionally mimicking your art by hand, or using an AI to do it for me.
You will be upset regardless.

Tho there is literally no point in overthinking this.
Go, do legality if you want. Pandora's box was opened, you wont get to stuff AI back into it, and banning it off of sites like inkbunny, will just result in what it always results in: People will make their own site for it where you will have absolutely no say in anything.
It is what it is.
Adapt or drown.

eeveefan

1 month, 4 weeks ago

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@ Labyrias

"People will make their own site for it where you will have absolutely no say in anything."
please do so we dont have to see it here.
also pretty sure DA is the go to for ai related arts.
plus if they make their own site for it why would i care? i dont have to see it and i wont visit the site so... win win situation i guess?

" there is absolutely no difference between me intentionally mimicking your art by hand, or using an AI to do it for me."
umm are you that dense? if you do it by hand then you put in the effort to learning the style. throwing it into an ai generator isnt the same thing. art takes hard work and dedication and using an ai takes all the hard work out of it. its a lazy mans way to "create art" and you know this.

"Im more than 4 decades old."
your reply sure doesnt sound like someone whos more then 4 decades old. you sound like an angry pro ai user whos all mad about what i said. not everyones going to like ai dude. im expressing my opinion which im free to talk about. dont like it? just ignore it then.

Labyrias

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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"i dont have to see it and i wont visit the site so... win win situation i guess?"
You can block keywords under your account settings. And artists.
If you dont want to see something, you already have every tool at your disposal to do so, conclusively you are intentionally placing yourself into a position where you get to complain about something.

"umm are you that dense? if you do it by hand then you put in the effort to learning the style."
How much effort and time i put into my art is absolutely none of your business, is it? Not even remotely, not by any measure, fantasy or tiny purple fart of a lost thought.
Feel free to correct me if im wrong.

"your reply sure doesnt sound like someone whos more then 4 decades old. you sound like an angry pro ai user whos all mad about what i said. not everyones going to like ai dude. im expressing my opinion which im free to talk about. dont like it? just ignore it then."
Considering your arguments above, there is more than just a little irony to these words.
But sure.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Have a most excellent weekend and a great day/night.

eeveefan

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ Labyrias

"You can block keywords under your account settings."
gee if only people were considerate and actually tagged their arts correctly. this has become a major issue on this site, artists not tagging their arts properly or who lock keyword suggestions preventing us from tagging stuff correctly.

"How much effort and time i put into my art is absolutely none of your business, is it?"
i really dont care how much effort you put into your arts. i was giving an example there.

"You are entitled to your opinion."
everyone is. doesnt mean we are always right but we are entitled to our own opinions.
billions of people in this world man and tons of different opinions.

Sangy

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ KevinSnowpaw

You're missing a couple of vital points here. The first is that the "AI" content is not art in any way. So I don't think it has a place on this website. No one is creating the content, it is simply compiled from sources.

Which brings me to the other important point. Being as algorithm-generated content is a compiling of other people's art without their permission--even if it is to create something entirely different--this should be considered stolen art. They can not provide sources to prove that every single element is being used with permission, so it must be assumed that at least some of it is being used without permission. Not only reposted, but modified for use in someone else's content, potentially to financial benefit, even if that content is never directly sold. Recognition on the internet can in itself be used for commercial gain. In this case, gain which is obtained through unlicensed use of other people's art.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Sangy

And that's I can whole heartedly agree upon. AI still and always will be a tool albeit very powerful one. And like all things that is powerful it's also dangerous. Moderation is strongly required as I told many other before you. This is among the very first of my concern when AI art crazed starting happened. Technically it's just glorified and highly sophisticated art thefts. But you have to understand that even us Artists we still use stock images and reference from time to times too. SO it's also as important to recognizes and differentiate using AI as excuse to be artist and monetize it and Using AIs to enrich our work quality to new heights.

KevinSnowpaw

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Sangy

im pretty vocal about how I don't think AI has a place here....mostly for those reason... if you think my post was in support of AI art then Either you misread it or I need to be more clear in my statements.^^

Sangy

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ KevinSnowpaw

Sorry, I got the impression that you thought it was harmless. Which I just do not think is so.

KevinSnowpaw

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Sangy

I mean by itself.. it is kinda? but...it's harmless as taken AS IS which is a fun toy that can do a neat thing...

It is not art.... it is not created by the user or by an artist for the user...it really has no place on IB... it just really does not.

It's like me writing an AI that can string worms that rym together semi coherently and then I post that and call it Poetry, it's not.

FoxxFire

2 years, 1 month ago

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Oh, fuck o.o

JediJP

2 years, 1 month ago

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I think the idea of Inkbunny about the AI are not bad, because we need to show our skills of the arts without this type of technology, we will probably shy with our skills, but with the practice you will be able to improve your skills and show the world what you are made of.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ JediJP

It's not bad but need some polishing. You can't show the world of your fabulous arts if no one can see it.. Am I right?

Tricksta

2 years, 1 month ago

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maybe there should be another gallery for that untouched AI content.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Tricksta

Need to be it's own space if you ask me. But knowing how under maned Inkbunny was I don't think that's a solution just yet.

JediJP

2 years, 1 month ago

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well thats right, but the real art it's doesn't created by AI, it's created by yourself

Wry

2 years, 1 month ago

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From the News post, it does sound like they're planning a way to keep AI tagged stuff in it's own zone. Just the issue will be enforcing this and finding those who are making AI art and not tagging it as so.

Sangy

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Tricksta

Yeah, a completely different WEBSITE. It's not art. It is not created, it is compiled. It is, fundamentally speaking, IP theft by its very nature.

LemmyNiscuit

2 years, 1 month ago

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I actually agree but then with the requirement to tag the submissions they could be blocked. Not great I guess but still something if you want to automatically discard all of the AI stuff.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

I did already mentioned. Even if you blocked the tags it still leaves "X" in that submission spaces. My point is you don't want a page of new submission fill with X squares.

LemmyNiscuit

2 years, 1 month ago

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That's actually based on your account settings. You can have it hide blocked submissions altogether, if you want that.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

Ohh oops... I just found the option. Still my point still stand if I been using this 11years and just noticed this option then I'm pretty sure 50% of the users here aren't likely to noticed that. XD

Still even so I still prefer it as it's own spaces. Separated from main gallery would be better solution still. New or Lurker users aren't likely to use blocking features.

Zekey

2 years, 1 month ago

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Setting it up as a pool and "don't show on front page" are thankfully options people could do, too. But that all depends on the uploader.

LemmyNiscuit

2 years, 1 month ago

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Don't get me wrong I actually agree with your stance on limiting posting to only AI Assisted works. I don't really see much value in purely AI generated works (as a product, a reference on the other hand is very valuable). But, it is an option for the current / tentative ACP to block since these tags are going to be enforced.

I would go as far as to say a separate gallery isn't even worth it. Like. I see no value in just feeding the AI and then posting the works it produces, at least on most sites. I mean. There are some funny or cursed images that come out of it, but it's also like we don't just want memes posted on IB (that are like, memegenerator -generated, ones as commissions are okay I think).

To be really reductive about it, it's essentially posting the output of a less-than-randomized script. Like everyone can run the script and get similar outputs or potentially even the same output. Posting that alone is non-meritorious to me even for absurd results, or even very good results.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Still I saw potential of the pure AI generated arts tho. It's basically source of unlimited inspiration and even as stock images usage. But like I said to another guy here. It's a powerful tools and we need a better moderation and solution to it.

Zekey

2 years, 1 month ago

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Yea, I'd second that and for folks who haven't seen that option under Account Settings: https://photos.app.goo.gl/kacbhwNFTdsAz8Hv8

Piporete

2 years, 1 month ago

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Oh boy, I can't wait to see the popular and recents submissions flooded with hyper-realistic furries with fuck up hands and cursed genitalia

Wry

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Piporete

Someone of IB staff mentioned they've plans to prevent that. So hopefully they plan to just push all AI tagged stuff into it's own section of the site and front page/popular remains as it is.

Piporete

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Wry

Is not gonna happen becouse simple people don't tag their submission so the system is not gonna register a AI upload and I highly doubt that IB has a system that reconize autonomously a AI submission

Wry

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Piporete

From Salmy:

"	Lying is never a good idea :) Some of us (I'm NOT amongst them) are already very expert in this field, and with the help of reporting users who also know what they're talking about, we'll hopefully be able to identify and take action against those who don't comply with the policy.

I hope they enforce it hard, else I agree with you strongly there.

torchlight

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Wry

Problem is they can't even enforce the no humans rule, and last time I reported some it took them 2 1/2 years to respond to it.
So I guess if you report AI art now they may take it down in 2025

JMLuxro

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Piporete

Not sure how much the latter would be
For what I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong) none of the open source and free to use AI generators allow you to generate NSFW, and IB denied the use of paid generators, which are the ones that allow you to make genitalia
So at least no AI curse genitalia should be seen... or at least not much?

Deraku

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

the big problem with AI tools is that if someone spents enough time to figure out how the tools work people can easily copie art from normal artists

so the problem is how want hard working artists that spend days or months for their art to protect their art ? sure some artists making art for fun and others need to sell their art because they need the money for living to pay their bills to buy food or for medical reasons

i think the only way for artists will be to hide their art behind a paywall so no free art for people anymore i know its sad but if those artists need money to survive there is hardly another option

i mean those days its important to having money many thing got expensiv food, medicine, gas, and the list gets bigger and bigger

i mean why would normal furry artists post some of their art anymore and getting the risks that other people will use it for AI tools to copie their art

i could understand that many artists will not post their art anymore or hiding it behind a paywall and i can understand them

i dont want to make people angry that liking IA generated art its just my point of view :\ so please dont get mad at me i just saying what i am thinking

Juno

2 years, 1 month ago

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Yeah, I'm not particularly happy about the decision either. I think the decision is reasonable for now, in terms of putting out some rules and seeing where things go, but if things get out of hand, I hope IB is swift in making a more firm decision.

HunterRamirez

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

Ok, I don't know what sup with that AI, I don't understand why Inkbunny changes people for AI, and I dunno but if I look at my art or my kinky are deleted for that AI, I think I closed my account when that happens.

Eyes

2 years, 1 month ago

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as far as data capacity is concerned, i agree with inkbunny here, art made by people holds more value than AI generated art

AnnaSama

2 years, 1 month ago

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I am not an artist, but I also just can't stand AI art. The more I see if it the more tired I get. My ability to spot the flaws is outpacing how well the results are and it's annoying to see people posting tons of this stuff.
Also I love your stuff and it makes me want to get more art of my cub version.
:3 🧡

WhiteSnowRose

2 years, 1 month ago

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At the very least I'd want quality control

RobbyBunny

2 years, 1 month ago

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Not to dissimilar to my take :

https://inkbunny.net/j/467389#commentid_2535764

"I don't think it should be wholy banned as It can be used as a tool like any other and I personally know quite a few high profile artists that sometimes make use of some ai-generation to form some small parts of their images as well as provide inspiration to a greater piece. You can be still immensly skilled for creating what do with it and it can help optimise your work flow. It's not inherently bad.

Photoshop too allows you to maniplute images and sew them together in a way that was not possible with pencil and paper and there were people who considered that 'fake or lesser' once too and yet now it's ingrained in the workflow of so many artists and is considered a industry standard. I believe like everything It just comes down to how it is used and how much of the final product is yours versus an AI's.

I appreciate that it's hard to create rules around topics like this as it's very nuanced and unfortunately rules are not and I think this is a good first draft but I don't very much care for wholey AI-Generated creations and would prefer those not on the site at all personally as I don't believe they hold any artistic value nor do I believe in an AI's ability to improve its art capabilitiy. AI's don't know good from bad as those are subjective terms and art is very subjective whereas computers are not.

I also think it's a bit of a misnomer as 'AI-Art' models are trained from data sets that uses images by very real artists often uncredited already meaning to an extent you're browing other peoples very real work without their permission in a way that can be more than just referencial especially if you're using it to generate art and not as a tool. I also believe you should be very careful with how you use it and when you do use it clearly identify it much like these rules have laid out already so that's good."

I really think IB staff should've consulted their biggest and most successful artists on this rather than discussed it among themselves and I think those discussions should be more transparent.

R3DRUNNER

2 years, 1 month ago

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"	I really think IB staff should've consulted their biggest and most successful artists on this rather than discussed it among themselves and I think those discussions should be more transparent.

this is a good point

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Right now most AI stuffs flooding other galleries are like a guy just use Photoshop filters tools on somebody else's artworks and call it a day. That's the problem. Lol

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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I know it's not that simple but the process and effort required is very similar. Lol

RobbyBunny

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

Hyperbolic but yeah. It's making uncredited use of tens of thousands people's creations and reinterpretating them using weighted keywords and tags that it has been trained on. It's basically a highly sophisticated but ultimately glorified photoshop tool. It's not creative, it can't actually improve on its own without original artist works to train off of and human interaction to tell it what is 'good' or 'bad'.

Allowing AI generated art is just going to open the flood gates to thousands upon thousands of rapidly generated low quality works that really don't belong on inkbunny and will only serve to make existing artists artwork much less visible.

Ai in art is better suited to helping create new textures and effects and perhaps helping create interpolated frames for animations or simple backgrounds etc. Stuff that can streamline the creative process not dictate it.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Couldn't say that better myself..

ShioriShi

2 years, 1 month ago

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AI generated art should be properly labled as it and openly disclosed being that. Other then that in terms off art I dun see huge issues with it as it can help speed up things like backgrounds, and thus can be a nice tool if used right. Also AI is still far far off from being able to add simple human randomness.

Fursat

2 years, 1 month ago

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Well rater than just try to avoid the unavoidable they managed to find a good middle-way. On the other side its typical human to not want to accept new things or just see the negative impacts from it in a "settled world", so this part is understandable too.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Fursat

Very true. And no I'm not even trying to avoid it. In fact I'm dying to see it becomes good enough for me to use practically.

BlankFlank6

2 years, 1 month ago

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If there’s a way to bring one’s ideas to life without the need to hand draw and become frustrated with being unable to learn it, I say it’s a good thing. If it’s not allowed on here with natural art then that’s understandable.

KaiBun

2 years, 1 month ago

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I'm not opposed to it being used as a tool for artists, but I personally draw the line when someone takes the work of another, and uses it for ai art generation of another image. To me that has no place on this site

TheSuperProfessor

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

I think as long as it's very clearly labelled what is AI artwork, it can be fine to have around. The rules state that now AI art has to have the "ai_generated" keyword, so that way you can avoid it simply by blacklisting the keyword itself if you don't want to see it at all.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ TheSuperProfessor

Problem is how well people used tags on anything. And the fact that how fast and effortless AI generation is it just exacerbated the problem as thousands upon thousands flooded the gates

CookieSkoon

2 years, 1 month ago

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"As we all know no matter how talented or skilled artists are we can't compete with AI in terms of quantity. And soon the decision of allowing that will hurt us in the near foreseeable future. Much like it already did in many major eastern art sites that literally flooded with thousands of submissions per day by just a handful of guys... Yes you may argue that we can block tags. But your blocking system still leave a huge empty X space. Which doesn't solve the problem of legitimate artworks being pushed to oblivion.. "

This paragraph especially. Moreover,

a counter argument I have received often in my open distaste for machine generated artwork (or as I call it, art-laundering theft) is that "it's not really capable of much".

Well it's not right now. It will be. People need to stop sleeping on an obvious problem before it gets out of hand.

GreenPika

2 years, 1 month ago

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The "tools" are just a slippery slope that will end in the destruction of art. you want a world full of nothing but cheap AI generated shit owned by some global monopoly corporation? Then keep tolerating AI in art. The tools don't even help learning artists because it disincentivizes the development of their skills. It's the same reason so much music sucks out loud these days. The computers started doing TOO much of the creative work and therefore, no one has to strive to be talented anymore. They just puke out metric tons of cheap shite which inevitably drowns out the better music. Same will happen with visual thanks to AI tools and AI art creator programs.

Chira

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

but it says that it does not get completely removed. greenreaper even has a joke avi now (i think it is cause he had yesteday a different profile picture) which probably shows what is meant.

i doubt that IB will kill the stuff completely.
but me, nekostar and greenreaper had this convo under FurryAi252´s pics of li-li and greenreaper probably seen the disconcern of a lot of peoples about it. under nekostars journal aswell and what DA recently did and how badly it went for DA.

overall is this a good thing that IB goes against it. because at the end stealing AI´s artwork which is usually (atleast in the artists opinion) copyrighted. tho they would need massive paperwork to really do this but at the end is this a matter of respect to not steal said art. an AI does not know this, she just takes it.

i am pretty sure that, if you would know that an AI steals your artwork and makes nearly perfect pictures with it which only need a little bit of edit work and that person makes then even money out of that would this upset you aswell.

btw i avoided to tag the ppls, i dun wanna "summon" them accidently again xD.

terrenski

2 years, 1 month ago

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Hmm..  at the moment this year. We see Ai art do
Scenery and random museum like art.
So.. anyone who do the Bob Ross art will be in trouble.

For now im not seeing. Any good Ai art do a
Flawless Anime or Cartoon characters n such. Not even comics or animation.  So these art skill  is still
Save for now.  I will be pissed if cartoons and comic will be assistly or fully Ai work. These is what we really need to retaliate.

Im against AI on its evolution. Im aint want it to get any
progression.

GreyMaria

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ terrenski

This is already here. You haven't been paying attention.

This is already here.

This is already here.

terrenski

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ GreyMaria

Yup. Now i see anime art get the kill to the anime industry. But still other forms of art still has hope due to the Ai art still in its infancy. As anything it generate is still ina muzeum form of art. Drawing any living things still looks deform. So quality art is our hope to pre on the game of ART.

jellymouse

2 years, 1 month ago

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I think a lot of people misunderstand one critical thing about AI.
It's not generating anything. It's not creating a single new thing at all. It's reconstituting existing things, often other peoples' art, taken without consent, and used to generate revenue.

AI regurgitated art is very cool, but it should never be used in the process of anything that can be used to generate revenue, until there's some way to compensate every artist who's art was scraped to train the AI.

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ jellymouse

I guess that depends what you mean by "reconstituting". The diffusion-style systems work by learning how to reduce noise, which is effectively like looking at patterns in a rock and seeing the image of a cat in it, and very unlike taking specific images and putting them together. This document explains it reasonably well, and in particular it has some animations to show how it creates work out of random noise - you can see where it got the contours present in the result.

Kellyn

2 years, 1 month ago

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Idk how I feel about AI art. On the one hand I know for a fact that many talented artists are going to be unable to compete with the quality and quantity of art AI is able to produce and will lose their jobs as a result. Regardless of what rules or policies sites or even governments put in place that’s going to happen. There is no closing Pandora’s box.

On the other hand though I am legitimately excited to see a new breed of content creator emerge as a result of this. There are many people out there who have excellent ideas but lack the time, skill, or money to bring their vision to reality and this is going to enable all of them to bring their personal brand of genius to life. I also foresee this being eventually useful for the production of long comics which usually takes artists months or even years to complete and costs commissioners hundreds to thousands of dollars to create.

I definitely think there are a lot of negatives to AI art that we have yet to fully understand but I personally would like to see where this goes before unilaterally calling it terrible.

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Kellyn

I know that bit about eliminating comic commissioners will probably horrify artists but I have seen many artist and writer combos not work out and the project tanks. For many such a project would never start because they can't find the right person or afford their time. If nothing else it could be a good storyboard tool. This is the kind of experimentation we are keen to see, rather than the "X shots of Y" (artists who do popular characters and have none of their own may suffer).

Kellyn

2 years, 1 month ago

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Not going to call anyone out but one of the comics I’m following has been going on for over 4 years now with progressively slower releases and I don’t even think they are working with anyone else. In this time my tastes have changed considerably.

Not every artist is up to the task of making a full comic and many can lose their motivation to draw entirely from pushing themselves to finish a comic. If this can make an artists work easier to where they have the motivation to start a comic or can ensure comic projects that otherwise would be far too expensive to fund will see the light of day I want to see these comics.

At the end of the day AI generated art isn’t trying to replace jobs it’s trying to replace work. it’s trying to take a process that’s tedious, time consuming, and manual and make it accessible to do quickly for everyone INCLUDING artists so that everyone has more free time.

Wakka

2 years, 1 month ago

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I personally don't think that AI art can replace the wow factor that artists can generate. There's a special side to artists that makes the commission worth wild. AI art tools to me way back then could have greatly helped me learn to draw/ make art. But that time is passed.

You can't replace artists.

Side note. AI art could help me to get a long waited for comic up and going.

mooniecollie

2 years, 1 month ago

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i really don't like AI art at all and i agree with you here. even if it won't replace why people love real artists, it will still displace us just due to the amount of "art" even one person with an AI can generate. it usually takes artists at least a day to make one good drawing, but an ai "artist" could make 10s or even 100s of pics in one day.

i'm scared of where this is leading and by the people who are totally lacking empathy for artists. it's like all the crypto "it's just here to stay whether you like it or not nyanyanya" people have band wagoned onto this now. can we get a break??

Balmung

2 years, 1 month ago

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Isn't this what you'd expect from Inkbunny though?

Consider that cub content is allowed here precisely because IB is one of the sites that swings the most in the direction of "personal freedom", as much as it's able. So I think it makes a lot of sense for them to try to come up with some sort of compromise here as well.

I highly doubt the sky is going to fall at any rate. It shouldn't be that hard to put enough requirements for it to make it really, really tedious to make pictures that pass the rule, and that will keep things contained well enough. Also everything has its trends. I remember back when everything was flooded with MLP art. Over time it quieted down and now it's part of the whole, rather than something that suddenly completely takes over the front page. A bunch of people will play with it, but in the end many of them will move on to something else.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Balmung

It never was about the content really. It's more about the amount. Everyone wants to have their arts seen and unfortunately even without AI it's already pretty difficult as is. And if you suggested to block tags? Good luck with that.... Like really even now human isn't allowed in inkbunny and it's darn easy to spot one. Yet it still pops up here and there. Now imagine that but instead of a single person can create that at best 1-2 pics each week now it's a matter of minutes and post dozens each day. Not to mention it's very difficult to spot one by uneducated eyes.... Yeah you now see my point. It's practically no inconceivabl way to moderate this efficiently without the use of AI detection itself.

Balmung

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

AI stuff is really quite obvious once you look at enough of it. Back when I uploaded a few pictures, I got an "ai generated" suggested tag within minutes, and I very rarely get these. Even back when I didn't know exactly what it was, it was very obvious that some people were using the same tool, or using the same game engine, or something along those lines.

It's easy to make lots of it yes, but I've spend a good amount doing it, and my experience is that you mostly get two sorts: "banal" and "crap". The banal stuff falls into very recognizable patterns, so that will burn itself out soon enough because seeing a hundred slightly different pictures of Nala masturbating can only have so much novelty factor. Swap the character and it looks mostly the same.

Edit: It's also very easy to justify banning that sort of serial generation

To go beyond banal you need to expend a lot of time and effort to get all the bits to align right. Every element you add to the picture has a high likelihood of going wrong, so the more complexity the less likely it is to actually look right. By demanding the pictures to actually look good this quickly puts the time investment into hours per picture.

I very much agree with you that a flood of junk wouldn't be a good thing. I just think it's a very controllable one without all that much effort.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Balmung

I honestly would love to hear on how is that achievable myself sincerely. If you ever once set foot on eastern sites like pixiv or Fantia. You'll know that it's literally out of control right now. Your arts literally pushed back 10+ page almost immediately you posed. And AI generated anime style are way more robust than what furry counterparts.

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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Well, where are they getting it from? Because right now a lot in the furry community seem to be using NovelAI, which we will not be allowing unless their model changes. You could of course lie about provenance and I am sure some people will, but the keyword and prompt requirements are there to at least make people have to think when posting.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Well.. Stable Diffusion is getting there. It might be tough and cumbersome to set up an effectively use now. But like anything else it's just a matter of time. Just hopes you guys ready for that horde from FA when times come.

Seti

2 years, 1 month ago

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In quantity - maybe not. But in quality YES.
You can use AI to generate several poses, and choice the one you like. And then redraw it totally in your own style, changing things to fit your idea better. This should be tool for helping, not finishing the work.

From all the AI generated arts there are - only a few (counted on one/twa hands) can be considered really well done. Most of them have some base problems, continuity issues, pose mistakes (much more severe than ppl do) and so on and so on.

Also most of the AI mentioned is really deep learning, than real AI

InformalDreamers

2 years, 1 month ago

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Pfff. All websites have AI. You ever wonder why some artwork goes to popular? It's not because people are liking the art, it's because AI are faving artist, either generated by the mods or artist have multiple accounts faving their own artwork. I see alot of good artist here but only has 300 views and why is that? Because they don't have AI faving their work or they do not have multiple accounts faving their art.

Hey look at me my art went to the popular page because I draw too good...... pff yeah right. Want me to tag extremely good artist with few likes? Want me to tag artist with AI or maybe have multiple accounts placing their art to popular??

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ InformalDreamers

That must be quite a desperated artist... Or that's a Faceboo- I mean Meta! XD

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

It has actually happened and we removed one guy from Indonesia or the Philippines over it, but AFAIK it is rare and requires the use of multiple accounts which are easily detected if checked.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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XD I was joking about that. And yes I aware that's a thing. But seriously how desperate one can be resort to doing that?

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

I think they justify it to themselves by saying that everyone else is doing it, when in my experience this is not actually the case.

It's unfortunate, because it acts as a crutch - after all, if you think it's just that other people are cheating the system, you might not look at the other reasons why they're doing better.

Xennos

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

That's what I called "making excuses". XD
As nothing in the world ever was defined by any one singular factor.

GratitudeAdvocate

2 years, 1 month ago

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This website will be insurmountably fucked beyond repair if AI generated art takes over. A sincere menace to artists everywhere. I don't stand by that nonsense for a second.

Deraku

2 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 2 years, 1 month ago by Owner

Another Problem is what if some people Use AI Art generators to make Stuff some artists don't want to draw

Some artists don't want to draw cub Art or Feral art but what if when people Use AI to Use Art and characters from Those artists to make exactly this Kind of Art?

some artists want to draw clean and non sexual art and they dont want to ever see some of their art and characters in some sexual situtions for those artists it would be very high stress and pain and some artists could fall in a deep hole maybe they would never draw again because they can't forget what happened to their art and characters

I mean how Would you feel as an artist if you see that people using your Art and characters to make something you Would never ever want to make?

And what if Those artists having a patreon and we Know the rules patreon has what if the patreon Accounts of some artists get Banned because of that?

Some artists having not the time to arguing endless with patreon to explain that this AI generated Art has nothing to Do with the Art the artist originaly make

Balmung

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Deraku

I don't think the current crop of AIs can be asked to do that, and I think with some luck they never will.

Yes, Dall-e 2 can be asked to draw something in the style of Monet, but that is a well known, historical artist. Training an AI to imitate the style of a still living person in a small community would invite a lot of trouble. I've not heard of that happening yet, and hoping it stays that way.

GreenReaper

2 years, 1 month ago

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@ Deraku

That is why the policy as written has a prohibition against using living or recently dead artists or their non-commercial characters without permission. Really, it's a restatement of the Ownership policy, but worth highlighting. It would hardly be the first time we removed art on that basis, and actually it's far easier to do without AI.

Merlin

2 years ago

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@ Deraku

There's really nothing that stops a good artist from replicating someone else's style and drawing whatever they want. Honestly imo it would take a lot more work to set up the ai to copy someone's style and then generate exactly the kinds of pictures you want when you could just draw it. Not to mention creating embeddings like this requires time and computing power. For the time and money it takes to get it to work you might as well pay another artist to draw the work

Xennos

2 years ago

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@ Merlin

I would really like to point you to an article about a guy literally screen capped an artist mid streaming. Then feed his incomplete piece to AI to complete it even before the original artist finishes his work. But I really don't like to post external links here.

Just Google "Genshin Impact art stolen mid stream". Not here to dismissing anything here. Just wanted to correct you that it's not exactly as difficult as you think. Especially if you are drawing fanarts because the characters you drawing already exist abundantly in the stock database for AI to use it as cross reference.

Merlin

2 years ago

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