My proposal for fixing IB's AI issue by DancingChar < Submission

48 Comments on this Submission

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Frazzledragon

1 month ago

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I think that's quite elegant. Trusting users to tag their artwork is unreliable.

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ Frazzledragon

Yeah. I'm thinking AI is different and controversial enough that it'd make more sense for it to have it's own rating rather than a collection of tags.

Labyrias

1 month ago

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@ DancingChar

I'll be frank
1. I support the idea because its cleaner than tagging, however
2. Unless you intend this to be enforced by moderators, the problem remains the EXACT same as with tagging: Anyone can lie about it, anyone can just "not" tick the box.

Those who want to tag their stuff properly, already do. Those who dont want to, can still refuse to do so under this suggestion

DancingChar

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

@ Labyrias

It's true ppl can lie but it wouldn't be worse than what happens with tags anyway, which I haven't noticed being too bad imo. Liars are the exception, not the norm.

The biggest difference this change would bring is make it easier for new users without an account yet to hide AI if they choose, which would give the site a better first impression I think.

AaronAmethyst

1 month ago

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@ Frazzledragon

Having anything is better than nothing. 5% or 95%

VarraTheVap

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

@ Frazzledragon

Why would you trust that they select the right option tho?
Not to mention that user-suggested tags are a (great) thing here on IB.

Frazzledragon

1 month ago

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@ VarraTheVap

Nothing against using both methods, tags and category info. If you really don't trust users, just make it a mandatory option and expand it to three choices:
No AI used
AI generated
AI assisted.

VarraTheVap

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

@ Frazzledragon

Yeah making it mandatory to select something would be a way. Think Pixiv has it that way.

Kellyn

1 month ago

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@ VarraTheVap

Make the default yes then.

Labyrias

1 month ago

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@ Kellyn

How the hell does that accomplish anything?
Those who want to tag their stuff properly, already do.
Those who dont want to, will also refuse to use this option.

VarraTheVap

1 month ago

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@ Kellyn

And essentially punish "lazy" regular artists that way? o.O

Kellyn

1 month ago

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@ VarraTheVap

One of the options has to be default. Either way someone is going to be lazy. Just depends on if you would rather see AI in the non-ai or non-ai in the AI.

I guess a 3rd option is to include no AI as an option and require one of the 3 options to be selected. This way you HAVE to go with something other than default.

Logacrap

1 month ago

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@ Frazzledragon

There are some fairly reliable methods of automatically detecting if an image is AI generated (somewhat ironically using an AI detecting AI), the only issue is that if the artist has used something like Glaze or Nightshade to protect their art and mess with the AI it can be incorrectly detected as being AI generated...

An ideal solution would probably be something like requiring artists to upload the unprotected file so false-positives are minimised as much as possible but then giving the artist an option to get protection added to their art by the server, the issue with that idea though is that it would require quite a lot of processing power if you don't want significant slow-down...

Labyrias

1 month ago

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@ Logacrap

This suggestion is a surefire way to create MOUNTAINS more drama.
Sorry, but there is absolutely no way that your inconvenience of seeing AI in search results due to twats who refuse to tag properly, is a larger issue than artists being falsely flagged by an automatic system as AI users.

esanhusky

1 month ago

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Those would definitely work, but I'd really like to have a toggle on the frontpage that I could easily decide whether of not I want to see AI today. Right now, I have the tags blacklisted, because it seems like it's starting to drown out regular art

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ esanhusky

Yeah I'd like that too, but adding a new button to the website might be a bigger ask for the admins and idk how much they're willing to change about the website right now.

Making a new allowed rating feels like something they wouldn't get too irked about adding.

VarraTheVap

1 month ago

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Fairly sure they have had that idea too, but from what I read they just don't have coders for the site :(
Great idea to separate into AI generated and -assisted though.

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ VarraTheVap

No coders huh? That would explain some things I suppose.
Maybe this idea could be put on the back burner until they can afford a coder?

TheRevengeX11

1 month ago

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@ DancingChar

Additional question: what can the IB team do to be able to afford coders?

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ TheRevengeX11

GoFundMe? idk

Evening

1 month ago

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idk... these people are afraid of change and backlash. I'd like this to happen, but not getting my hopes up.

Juria316

1 month ago

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Makes sense and seems fairly easy to implement. I am suddenly not so optimistic.

DrMadfox

1 month ago

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I'm not as against AI as most people - though I do think it needs to be heavily regulated. This honestly seems like a good idea to me.

Neversoft

1 month ago

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I like it. I've been seeing so many Ai slop even though I have them blocked. Only thing I would add is a box for drawn images and you have to check one of the boxes or you can't post it. That why they have check the Ai box or be reported as Ai.

Kellyn

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

100% agree. I have been suggesting this be a checkbox for a while now.

It’s not a kind of objectionable kink, it’s an entirely different medium of art. Definitely deserves more distinction than a tag.

Only change I would make is I’d add a prompt field if either box is checked.

Telain

1 month ago

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Speaking as an individual: I like this idea. I really like Kellyn's addition of fields for the required info when you select one of the AI boxes.

I don't know a single thing about coding for the site or offer any sort of insight into the moderation team (I literally started today), but I know it's not particularly simple. I don't think it's something with a quick turnaround and tags are something we, as users of Inkbunny, already had at our disposal.

Kellyn

1 month ago

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@ Telain

As someone who programs and has built websites, this is not an easy feature to add, particularly at the scale IB operates at. It’s not the hardest thing to implement, but it would involve modifying the database to add additional fields. I also do not necessarily know that it will functionally make any difference whatsoever.

DancingChar

’s suggestion is definitely the more right way to handle AI (in my opinion at least), but given the amount of effort and the lack of payoff, I can see why tags are used for this instead.

I think this change would make a whole lot more sense however if additional features were built around it (like a dedicated popular AI section on the front page like how writing and music have sections) but additional features would be even work and might piss people off even more.

Telain

1 month ago

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@ Kellyn

I didn't even consider the database. Yea, big oof.

I will say that having a bit more of an eye on things in my limited moderation experience, it only seems like there's a lot of AI because it sticks out to us. It's really a relatively small amount. And people can already block the tag and report not compliant submissions (which we're working on getting through faster). Those that aren't blocking the tag aren't likely to start blocking it because we change how it's blocked.

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ Telain

I think the main issue with the "blocking is good enough" argument is that you need an account to use the blocklist and a lot of potential new users won't make one right away. They'll use guest's allowed ratings first, which currently has no way to block AI. I don't think it should be on them to make an account just to not see something. This I think leaves a bad first impression.

It's not urgent to add new ratings this instant but I think it's something worth looking into, even if it takes a while to implement.
Thanks for hearing us out btw.

kshrike

1 month ago

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I hope we don't have to start using a siteside script that runs the images through AI checkers every time things are uploaded.

That would be really frustrating.

But then, the AI artists not tagging their stuff kinda caused this.

drHarms

1 month ago

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@ kshrike

Honestly, I don't think that would be necessary. A requirement to properly label AI generated images would be enough. If any slip through the cracks, they can be reported, and action may be taken if necessary. Once or twice are honest mistakes, any more is a pattern that can be dealt with.

TyphonJRT

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

Byrth

1 month ago

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I just block the tag so I don't have to see that trash. Of course this requires people being honest (in either case).

Bull

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

i still feel this same way, i won't bring that whole comment over here but here's a link on my feelings.

i just scrolled through like 4 pages of the Recent tab and didn't see any AI because i have the tag blacklisted. so from my perspective this is a non-issue. you don't like AI, blacklist it and stop hallucinating that you're seeing it anyway to make yourself mad on purpose. if you see 1 or 2, just move on and calm down.
i think the topic causes just immense seethe and they're unable to see reason, and i think so long as it's allowed on the site in any form that people will be mad.

i agree with greenreaper's comment about the issue very hard.
completely chill guy that doesnt give a fuck and wants to have fun while limiting as few of people as possible. has a rule titled "deal with it" that he cites lol. i'm dealing with it! i hate AI and i'd still rather be here than any other website.

i like your suggestion but sounds like it'll be too hard for them to implement, and i think people that hate AI to an irrational censorship hungry degree will still be unsatisfied. the blacklist in place currently works fine for me and i think your suggestion is more or less the same thing just with extra steps.

DancingChar

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

@ Bull

I agree kind of, but 1 thing I think they should do if nothing else is give guests a way to hide AI.
Right now if you're a new user, to hide AI you need to go through the process of making account, click through the settings to block keywords and then type in specific tags such as "ai_generated", ai, etc. to block.
It's not convenient or welcoming to new users who might not want to see ai and has probably turned off a lot of new ppl. At least with cub porn it's hidden behind the "adult" rating. AI has no such category yet.

Bull

1 month ago

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@ DancingChar

o yeah definitely. that is super true. that will hurt site growth very bad (as far as real artists go).
im sorry my post sounded mean i was very tired when i wrote that i didn't intend for that tone.

DancingChar

1 month ago

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@ Bull

No problem. I didn't take it that way.

Soulfear

1 month ago

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I personally see no problem with AI. So I don't see why not. Why not adding these features? Seems useful for those who don't want to see it.

mazemutt

1 month ago

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i definitely like the idea, but i think there should be three boxes, and one *has* to be checked: AI-generated, AI-assisted, or no AI content. that way everyone has to address the issue upon uploading, and no one can claim they didn't notice the AI labels. looking through the comments, neversoft beat me to it.

outright banning AI would be the best possible move of course, but i don't see that happening.

VoiceofDecember

1 month ago

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The lack of an ability to report users for improper tagging is a major flaw in this site.

TheRevengeX11

1 month ago

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@ VoiceofDecember

The worst is that they can just disable tagging suggestions so we viewers can't correct current tags, add missing ones, or remove incorrect ones as we see them, and put up bogus or insufficient tags and call it a day.
Usually at that point I just block those users and call it a day, but that doesn't exactly fix the problem.

QueenKami

1 month ago

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@ TheRevengeX11

It may not help every time because response time varies but you can send in a Support Ticket about it. There was an artist posting tons of nsfw cub content (that I have blocked-I know, i know, cub site doesn't want to see cub porn etc.) without tagging anything related to it (ie. cub, underaged, young, etc.) and after a while the staff eventually added the tags or something to it? Not a perfect fix for everything but good enough for a last resort I guess?

cynicaldude

1 month ago

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I think it could work. compared to other sites inkbunny has a better culture for adding the proper tags but I think there should be an option to suggest it may be AI and if a post gets flagged enough A moderator could look at it. Not elegant but just an idea

ModularDragon

1 month ago

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I personally think IT's a great Idea!

ThatCanineBeing

1 month ago

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Hey, I'm one of the people that uses AI in their works.

That is a step in a good direction though I personally still see a major flaw in this whole process where AI is treated like this one huge homogeneous bag that's not properly categorized in any way.

The guidelines say that one should include all the metadata about their AI picture to ensure replicability. This includes the prompt, the model you used, the seed, etc.

When you just open up some AI software and type "cute fox", click generate, it's super easy to upload this. It's not exactly a high effort work but it's allowed and it's easy to post.

The problem is where your work is ai assisted but not in the way that you just made the background with the AI but your whole picture is a mixture of manual work and AI assistance.

The way I make my stuff is that I always roughly sketch what I want to create, then I go step by step and inpaint these smaller pieces together aka the magic spell "Hey, make this look actually good". Sometimes it requires a complete prompt rewriting as the AI needs to understand what I just sketched. There, I added a small detail in the background, there I added a family picture, then a lonely cat in the background. Sometimes I switch between models when the software is too stubborn.

And to adhere to the rules I need write down every single prompt, probably. One of my work has over 10 prompts in its metadata which is completely ridiculous. The matter of replicability doesn't matter as my artwork is just too edited for that. Even for AI standards it's too hand-crafted to just call it "ai generated" and call it a day.

This actually discourages being more ambitious with AI - to produce something more personal takes much more effort and is much more tedious than just writing a prompt, generating and posting it. Which in my view is a complete opposite to what should be done. We should actually encourage people to be ambitious. If you really use the AI, at least put some effort into that, tell a story, have a vision.

Then I often take the picture to the graphic program, modify some stuff manually with clone tools, blur something, smudge something, add dialogue boxes, filters - how should we categorize such picture? Is it still "AI Generated" or "AI assisted"?

I love ambitious work with the AI, even if it takes hours of work but damn it is depressing to properly describe it for it to be allowed. I feel like the whole process should be modified. There can be a huge difference between two AI pictures, one could take 2 minutes, the other one 2 days - yet from the process view it is still considered just "AI Generated".

Hope you enjoyed my thoughts on that.

DancingChar

4 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ ThatCanineBeing

Where to draw the line between "generated" and "assisted" is a fair point to bring up.
From what you described, I'd probably still categorize that as "generated" since it sounds mostly done with AI but that's my opinion.
Ultimately it'll be up to the admins where to draw such a line though, or if there needs to be multiple lines if they were to implement these ratings.

Danjen

4 weeks, 1 day ago

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I generally support the idea, but when's the last time IB actually had a technical update?

davidjohnson

4 weeks ago

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Edited 4 weeks ago by Owner

Actually having an option to mark art submissions as AI during posting is also helpful and more handy than having to write tags every post

EDIT:
Also that way it's easier to punish people that are not following the submission's rules, actually

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