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hyenafur

So I'm really curious

What exactly constitutes cub art? I guess what I'm really asking is this: Is there an age line and where is it drawn especially when dealing with varying and sometimes contradicting ages of consent.

I know in modern Western Nations, age of consent is considered 18, when you become a legal adult, but in some states, provinces, and districts, age of consent ranges from 14-18. But that's not exactly true. Traditionally, it wasn't uncommon in Western nations for a 12 or 13 year old girl to be married off and start copulating in order to produce children, a practice that was continued well into the 1800s and 1900s. Even when looking at Ancient History, it's not uncommon for a young man starting puberty or close to it to begin to bed a woman or girl or even another man (look at the Greeks).

However it gets very confusing once taken out of a modern Western mindset. In some countries it's the very minute you reach puberty, and in some Native American Tribes, age of consent is basically when you start talking since it's believed you have the ability to make your own decisions whether they be good or bad.

My usual understanding of what constitutes cub is anything below the age of puberty, which ranges in age due to gender (women typically reach puberty faster than men), while lolita (and whatever the hell the male equivalent) is usually high school/secondary school range (13-17). Am I wrong in this understanding?
Viewed: 66 times
Added: 7 years, 10 months ago
 
moyomongoose
7 years, 10 months ago
I guess most sites that forbid cub porn or cub art arbitrarily set it at anything they think looks under 18.
graymuzzle
7 years, 10 months ago
Here's the lawyer version.......
I consider 'cub' anything involving 'underage individuals'
Underage is, typically
Anyone under 15,16, 17, or 18, depending on the jurisdiction
OR
two or more years younger, if both are minors
OR
as old as 21 if there are certain types of relationships.....(ie teacher/student)
AntiAlias
7 years, 10 months ago
Honestly, I think it varies on Context and appearance.
lets all be honest, nobody really displays real ages for the characters, we just know they LOOK over 18.
Then we get some artists with very cutesy art styles that have a habit that make their characters appear young, and without context of age, we easily assume they are younger then 18, which in the West means they are underaged/Cub.

Big example is a New Sex Comic called "Daddies Little Secret" There are 2 obviously younger characters, but there is ZERO context if they are of age, or even how young they are. But by design, they look Underaged, which would to the naked eye and Default in our heads that they are cub and well below 18. With context, we would know if they are below 18 and at least in the Puberty range, or if they are short and flat chested by design; similar to how we how some humans that don't grow tall and don't 'develop' like some people. Different bust sizes and structures.

And...you bring up good points about age of consent in other places and cultures, but i think Most people in  the fandom are from the west, so the legal age for  most of us is 18. So unless we are told, or they at least LOOK over 18, then we assume they are underaged, and it become taboo.
Khzhak
7 years, 10 months ago
I know what you mean.  I know a woman that's been old enough to legally drink for years, but to keep it vague (she isn't furry) she's 5'2" and her shoulders are maybe fifteen inches apart.  and she told me she can wear an extra small shirt when I accidentally got the wrong size for something I bought for myself, and thought she might like the smaller one.  As much as she has the build of a twelve year old (which I've said in her presence and she didn't dispute it and wasn't offended), she is plenty old enough to enjoy a Vesper occasionally.  It's like a martini.
mommavicky
7 years, 10 months ago
I judge cub as 15 and younger
Heuvadoches
7 years, 10 months ago
This is my breakdown of it all:  

0-3 is babyfur cub
4-9 is cub
10-12 is preteen cub
13-15 is Teen cub
16-17 is a grey area, but I still classify it as teen cub.

18+ is adult.

Many disagree with me, but ... I'm kindof like that police captain in Zootopia.   "I don't care."
kst3xh
7 years, 10 months ago
I'd upvote this comment if I could
kamimatsu
7 years, 10 months ago
I think the better question is, "When is it pornographic?" Some things are pornographic for adults, but not for children. For instance, Summer Wars has a 2-second scene where the protagonist gets startled by one of his younger cousins who ran out of a bath with nothing on and didn't bother to put something on. If they were older, that would have been the obligatory sex-aspect we think of in anime, but instead we just see it as "socially-awkward protagonist overreacts". Meanwhile, seeing the girl he's pretending to date, even though it's clearly by accident, and neither we nor the protagonist see anything (it's like, her head, neck, and the lower half of one leg), that's the sex-humor for the movie.

What I mean is, the real question is the difference between "nudity" and "sex". Context is a big part of it, and I'd be lying if I said I knew just how big.
BlackShuck89
7 years, 10 months ago
Context always needs to be established because aforementioned points. The recent "Daddies Little Secret" drama fest being a good example, Zaush could have handled it a bit better than he did but I am willing to take him at his word that the characters involved were of at least legal age of consent.

That said though, I think the whole drama surrounding that particular instance was just people looking for a reason to hate on him, even with his questionable history I think he's being unfairly targeted in this instance.

Getting to the broader question of what is classified as "cub art" seems to be putting obviously underage characters into an adult situation (sexual context of course) and while such "art" is technically not illegal to create or possess as of a federal judge ruling, is still in poor taste on the artists part.
kamimatsu
7 years, 10 months ago
Poor taste is also dependant on context. In 1987, we thought that of Bart Simpson talking back to his parents. Before that, we had married couples in sitcoms having to sleep in separate beds.

At best, it's a useful outlet for ideas. At worst, it's still art, and not even of something that exists, and with nothing forcing the viewers to view it.

If we have to judge on taste, then should we condemn Toby Fox for including the option to kill literally everyone in his game, even though that's all it is? An option? We seemed fine with Game of Thrones killing children on-screen, which was live-action. One death was by fire, if I'm not mistaken. Two of them were infants. And yet it receives praise. So what's the difference?
BlackShuck89
7 years, 10 months ago
It really depends on the situation but there seem to be certain modern societal norms that most people will refuse to cross.

Taking your example of Game of Thrones, the show itself while still being fairly popular and critically acclaimed hasn't been without criticism. The 'Red Wedding' episode, in particular, seemed to draw all kinds of backlash from fans because of just how gratuitous and over the top the violence and gore in it was. Granted, that show gets away with a lot more because it's on HBO and doesn't have to follow the same rules as regular networks due to it's "premium" status, at least here in the United States.

Personally, I find Game of Thrones lacking in the depth and overall quality in comparison to the works of C.S Lewis and J.R.R Tolkien but that's honestly just my personal opinion at that point.

Personally, I like to think that there are certain cultural norms on what is and isn't acceptable to put out and have on display in the open, at least when it comes to first world countries.
kamimatsu
7 years, 10 months ago
Everything is going to offend someone. Personally I see the show as nothing more than Torture Porn with an Excuse Plot, but I don't make a scene about it because that would make me no different than every "Moral Guardian".

But why does HBO get to follow different standards than other channels? If one wants a standard for "decency", and one wishes to make it mandatory across the works, then why are there exceptions? Either HBO has to obey as well, or the other channels are being pointlessly censored. There is no in-between unless the channel in question specifically advertises lack of certain content. We have ratings systems and V-Chips. This isn't about "decency" if HBO is exempt.

As for different norms, those change too. Some first-world countries in Europe allow public nudity. In the United States, you can get in trouble for having your daughter wear a two-piece swimsuit on the beach. Even though they are sold in stores everywhere.
HellDoradoLion
7 years, 9 months ago
I've just always classified cub as a minor..... depending on the place it could easily vary..... however its also easy to just say anything around 14 or younger.....

in my book a 16 year old is still a cub, even if he has a full patch of crotch fluff and other adult traits.... he's still just a youngin ;) hope that helps
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