"You're just running away, Skoon" by CookieSkoon < Journal

AmeyBoop

1 week, 1 day ago

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Sounds good. With you. Honestly considering uploading one sketch of Stella (Stellarfur's mascot) just as an ad for that forum, but otherwise I'm done here. Considering what you've said, I think I'll join you and amend that done for now.

Informal labor striking. Hm.

Gelemar

1 week, 1 day ago

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A-freaking-men!
To everything you said!

SissyLeo

1 week, 1 day ago

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Edited 1 week, 1 day ago by Owner

I definitely agree that no longer posting here is every bit your right.

I also find the idea of flooding IB with enough communists and transgender people to outnumber the Nazis and transphobes on the site 5 to 1 and make GreenRaptors head explode to be insanely funny, but that's just me. I know I can't make that happen, but I can always entertain that idea and make me feel a bit better. I won't be posting either until things improve, but I'll stick around to call out the BS when I see it.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ SissyLeo

Notice I still comment and post journals- I am simply with-holding my greatest asset.

My actual artwork.

Rykela

1 week, 1 day ago

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Edited 1 week, 1 day ago by Owner

It honestly fucking sucks and there's not an easy solution to it. Apparently there aren't really any other high-level sysadmins willing to work for a site like IB (at least, that they can afford) and most of the other mods are actively against this kind of bullshit and are more than willing to take actions when transphobic journals and other things are posted.

This is still a far better and user-friendly site than FA but it's maddening to see chuds flocking to GR's page to leave comments congratulating him for his stubborn bigotry. I hate it.

Ultilix

1 week, 1 day ago

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You also are, crucially, not alone, either. One person leaving is a blip in an ocean, but arguably you've been one of the pioneers in terms of getting this issue out there, well-known, and causing many other people to either leave or post less themselves. A strike of one doesn't accomplish much, but a strike of many is what gets things to become significant. We're in this together, demanding Inkbunny do better or lose its value.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ Ultilix

Which I am eternally grateful for, btw.

I did not expect to get anywhere with this, to be honest. I am still floored by the waves. I am aware that GR showing his ass was the spark that lit the match I was holding- but when I stuck it out there I never expected a spark. heh

I am especially grateful to Norithics for extending the reach of this early on.

StarRabbit

1 week, 1 day ago

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Stand strong, Puppy. You're not alone. Don't let them gaslight you into doubting yourself.

Firerush

1 week, 1 day ago

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That's the same accusation abusers use when they want you to stay with them. I know, I've been there...

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ Firerush

Yeeee unfortunately I am also highly familiar with all of the tactics of abusive relationships and family and the entire DARVO wheel.

DaksukeHashimura123

1 week, 1 day ago

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Hey, sorry to ask this but are you still posting & commenting on here?

Lunamann

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ DaksukeHashimura123

Commenting yes, Posting no. As she stated, in this very journal.

You silly.

DaksukeHashimura123

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ Lunamann

Ok, thank you, I’m accepting of people coming out, I just didn’t want to say anything that will make someone upset.

ComfyTail

1 week, 1 day ago

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Edited 1 week, 1 day ago by Owner

Some of the userbase really doesnt care about us artists
We're just a bunch of art-machines for them to archive and goon over the art

But they dont care about our feelings or standings
This site is going to hell with the AI , toxic community and mistreatment
People will tell you, youre running away , but at this point, it's about time the site actually prioritizes the artists that wanted to stay here.

Is not healthy to stay in a site that doesnt make you happy or safe.
And IB is slowly turning into that

RunicMyth

1 week, 1 day ago

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The people who claim you're running away are just butt-hurt that we're refusing to properly kowtow to Orange Julius and eat our horse-butt deworming paste, and instead fondly await the day he's shown the door with a boot up his ass.

Debuki

1 week, 1 day ago

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You have to fight for rights, ya know.

I and others told a mod to fuck off and leave a few months ago and it worked. The mods are actually toothless, because they believe in nothing. Its the wild west here, no real rules. You can shoot the sheriff. You can make this place queer as hell. Its significantly harder to do 'problematic' shit -anywhere- else. Everywhere else is vicious and rabid at the mere mention of problematic art subjects. Doesn't happen here. Funny.

Ryuun

1 week ago

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Edited 1 week ago by Owner

@ Debuki

The interesting thing is that the mod that was run off, would sometimes getting involved in reports of transphobic comments and journals, and delay the process. Basically being a mini-GR, "bothsides"ing everything.

I've noticed that since they quit, I've been getting quicker replies to tickets, with results that are far better than just "ignore it lmao" and I'm actually bothering using the ticket system now.

Juno

5 days ago

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@ Ryuun

"	Ryuun wrote:
	I've noticed that since they quit, I've been getting quicker replies to tickets.

Surely that's a result of the aforementioned mod leaving. Definitely has nothing to do with three new community mods being added in February, and four more this month. That'd just be ridiculous.

CookieSkoon

4 days, 22 hrs ago

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@ Juno

"with results that are far better than just "ignore it lmao"

You forgot this part.

Juno

4 days, 22 hrs ago

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Edited 4 days, 22 hrs ago by Owner

@ CookieSkoon

Who do you think new mods are trained from? Do you think they are just onboarded and then told 'go wild, do whatever you want'? :P Senior moderation staff (in this case, senior mod staff that hasn't left because of harassment) has a pretty important role in 'training the newbies.' We carry our own values, but we all learn to handle things just about the same way for consistencies sake.

If there is a difference in how moderation is done now, it's because the new moderation staff doesn't have burnout because we haven't been "told to fuck off [until] it worked." Unsurprisingly, that sort of action isn't kind, effective, or productive.

CookieSkoon

4 days, 17 hrs ago

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@ Juno

Read the room, follow the topic. It sounds like you are trying to justify Transphobia and apathy towards it.

I am aware that may not be the case but have some awareness about what conversation you have joined.

SpoonFox

3 days, 3 hrs ago

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@ Juno

Juno, try to not be snarky/sarcastic in these cases. It's a little unprofessional, and thus can be taken the wrong way.

It is understandable that the staff expansion is helping with the tickets. And as you replied below, each moderator is trained similarly, but has their own perspectives. It's not as spread out like FA pre-admin step-down a few months ago, where it was a Russian Roulette on whether you got answered, got something done with your ticket, or even got WARNED for your ticket in some cases, and if it was the same subject/rule break involved.

All moderators need to have a connection on what is acceptable professionally when working, otherwise, a rogue moderator (like on FA) could end up punishing the wrong people, or worse, letting rule breaks and harassment campaigns slide because X-Person might be connected to them. (A bias, ego to stroke, or otherwise.)

I've worked as a GM for an MMORPG, admin for multiple game servers, moderator for multiple services and forums, and I grew tired... But I know how all of this works.

This isn't just a reply to you Juno, because you know (or should know) this stuff, but a reply in general to others who might see this and not understand.

FloweyDancingpaw

1 week ago

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It's really frustrating because a lot of these same people will also criticize you if you argue or protest back. There's really no winning.

SherryDomino

5 days, 1 hr ago

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I haven't been plugged in here a lot lately...what exactly is going on?

SpoonFox

3 days, 3 hrs ago

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@ SherryDomino

Long story short, transphobic bigots were being assholes, tickets were answered 'They're allowed', Cookie responded to this inactivity by striking (no longer posting on site), Green came for damage control and 'reasoning' for this, and he has a lack of respect for trans people due to how a group treated him in the past (he refused to respect their pronouns due to his flawed logic in them being connected to sex, not identification). More bigots sided with Green. Many artists left the site due to the bigotry and not feeling safe on the site. New moderators added (Unrelated to incident). Some decisions on bigots reversed to actually discipline a few. Baby steps towards progress.

SherryDomino

3 days, 1 hr ago

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@ SpoonFox

I see.

GreenReaper

2 days, 23 hrs ago

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Edited 2 days, 23 hrs ago by Owner

@ SpoonFox

"	he has a lack of respect for trans people due to how a group treated him in the past

Hmm? I've seen you suggest this a few times but I think you have it the wrong way around. I don't give some trans people (all of) the special treatment they want with pronouns. But that's not because of the treatment I got; rather, that treatment was a consequence of said position.

If you mean something more like "X would have been banned if only that hadn't happened", I don't agree with that. Remember, I come from the wiki world of NPOV, where ideally all key attributable viewpoints are permitted to be aired. And Flayrah, where I once posted an opinion piece on Obamacare, then published a counterpoint, as well as a story submitted as "a form of protest" against the original piece and a meta piece on the suitability of such stories on Flayrah. [Only the last piece was particularly well-received, but the point is I kept them all up.]

SpoonFox

2 days, 16 hrs ago

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@ GreenReaper

English will always be annoying. The lack of respect was in response to your wording when you said "Due to what happened to me, you see why it is hard to sympathize with them" Not the other lack of respect, which is not respecting the pronouns.

There's a problem with letting 'all viewpoints in'. You know this, and I know you know this. It allows intolerant people to enter spaces to push out the people they're targeting. If you do that, you're left with just intolerant people, specifically the bigots who don't want to agree on things, but make others' lives miserable for just existing (Transphobes, Nazis, Homophobes, Racists, etc). Look to your shouts for examples of people 'praising' you for being transphobic (not the ones praising you for letting the site had cub stuff, how did that even get brought up? We never judged that...) Those are all you'll be left with if you allow 'all viewpoints'. That's why I keep saying, if you allow bigots to roam free, you'll only be left with bigots. And this goes true for those on all sides of the aisle who would spread hate and lies, including the people who say X person 'is a murderer' for letting something happen when they aren't for example.

GreenReaper

2 days, 16 hrs ago

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Edited 2 days, 16 hrs ago by Owner

@ SpoonFox

OK. I figured that might be it. I guess what I'd say there is that sympathy isn't core to whether the behaviour in question broke the rules. I guess it might affect the tone of the response? Like "I'm sorry, but we don't consider X to apply" vs. not saying the "sorry" there.

I don't agree with your second paragraph's assertions as I've been running the site pretty much the same way for a decade now, but I guess we'll see what happens by 2035. Perhaps the political scene will be slightly less fraught by then (this all happened in 2017 as well).

SpoonFox

2 days, 15 hrs ago

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@ GreenReaper

People are getting tired and not tolerating bigots anymore. They're seeing their spaces filled with awful people who only want to exist on that space to cause strife, and choosing to go elsewhere. So it's not exactly the same as 2017. It also doesn't help some of the assholes are empowered by the fact that Harassment, Hate, and Horribleness is being celebrated by their groups, and acting like they can get away with it. I know even you, and others, have limits on those before they cross a line, but they act like they can do anything they want. The number of these people has increased because they don't feel ashamed to be toxic anymore.

CookieSkoon

2 days, 11 hrs ago

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@ GreenReaper

The fact that you even consider correct pronouns "special treatment" in the first place, means you lack respect for us. Simple as.

I would really prefer you be quiet.

bullubullu

2 days, 8 hrs ago

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@ CookieSkoon

GreenReaper doesn't mean to show disrespect I believe. I would argue that he has a conviction that is so deep that it cannot be changed on this, and it doesn't mean that he believe that transgender people does not or should not exist, but that when he perceives someone as being of a certain gender he cannot state otherwise. There's a journal here where the discussion goes a bit more in-depth. From my view it is obstinate behaviour, but I have personally been stubborn to my own detriment in the past, to the point where, on reflection, it was pretty damn silly.
https://inkbunny.net/j/554410-DanielBunny-trans-issues-...

As for your second point: I do not think it is fair of you to expect him to remain silent when you have brought this off-site on social media and organizing people against GreenReaper and organizing a walkout of this site. He most certainly has a right to respond to accusations and criticism, even if those responses go against your own convictions.

CookieSkoon

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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Edited 2 days, 7 hrs ago by Owner

@ bullubullu

I'm not going to let you defend a Transphobic ideology with a, "well boys will be boys" type rhetoric. This is a weak excuse. A bad conviction is a bad conviction- being a conviction is not an excuse for it being bad.

My telling him I'd prefer him to be quiet at this point is for his sake- he keeps digging himself deeper.

bullubullu

2 days ago

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Edited 2 days ago by Owner

@ CookieSkoon

There's another good discussion journal here: https://inkbunny.net/j/554667
In it, someone says "transphobia is a spectrum" and scarlet compares the difference between a racist grandma and someone who is actually willing to do physical harm. I just want to mention that because you are aligning GreenReaper as if he is ready to stand outside your door and beat you with a bat for being transgender. He is not, and the site policy that allows extremist thought is born out of a dedication to free speech and not because he has it out for you.
Now the block evasion that is the reason this whole thing started is dreadful. Moderators have been stretched thin but are being brought online slowly but surely, I had trouble tickets responded to within an hour which is unprecedented.
What others have said about implemented rules against hate speech is Who decides what that is? When it comes to transgender issues you have children getting hormones or transgender athletes that are two very divisive topics. Are those two things something that would be transphobic to allow discussion on? We can take another divisive thing, immigration, and from my perspective when it comes to site policy, if the mods had to go in and subjectively decide if something was over the line they could do nothing but that, instead of removing spam and cp posters and regulating human content and AI stuff and all the other things that keep this site functional for its users and keeps it online.

Inkbunny is a private owned site, funded by donations, run by volunteers, and it allows controversial subjects like cub art in all its forms. There are no big business interests at stake here, which matters a lot for how the site is run.

Also I want to re-use a comment I made on that other journal for what I feel is important perspective when someone says "GreenReaper is transphobic" :
It really doesn't help to let yourself be so full of rancor because GreenReaper isn't an ally of your course. He isn't an enemy of it when it comes to this site that he owns: transgender flags are not being removed from the site, transgender tags are allowed and encouraged for those who use them, known transgender artist are not shadowbanned or deplatformed, he isn't making a site post about how transgenders are the root of all evil in the world, art or stories that say "transgenders are the devil" are not secretly boosted to make up 25% of the hot page.

He just isn't an ally of yours. There is too much "you are either with us or against us" in the world right now :/

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"You're just running away, Skoon"

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