Inkbunny

I honestly think it's just laziness and they need a fire under their ass; then just choose the easiest solution to do what they perceive as get the least amount of backlash.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Kadm's already implied they'll ignore a public stink this time.

So, sure shows me.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

They have such a chip on their shoulder about you I bet you could endorse oxygen and they'd hold their breath.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Well that part at least is mutual. I can't (and don't) deny I have a major chip about them.

I was, in their words, "one of their biggest friends and supporters."

And I really was. I considered those people my friends. I believed what they said to me when they said it. I was assured they weren't what detractors accused - and I assured others on their behalf. I was the highest watched account by far for a good time after initial launch. That's not ego or hubris, it's a valid point to suggest their launch's early success had at least SOMETHING to do with me endorsing them.

They made a liar of me to everyone I assured could trust them. Over, and over. And yeah, I am still bitter about that. Because that's not nothing. I stuck my neck out for them, and put my name on the line, and they didn't care. They sided with the shit their worst detractors would expect them to side with - time and time again.

Eventually I simply stopped denying what the detractors said that they chose repeatedly to validate.

TravisTRetriever

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I don't think you having a chip on your shoulder about them is unearned.

I mean, putting your neck out and risking your reputation for a site and its owners/admins/mods in light of what things are being said about them is absolutely something you have every right to be angry, even bitter about.

TravisTRetriever

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Judging by the amount of comments from Kadm, I don't even think it's laziness. At this point, I think they condone it.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I tried to report this user but was told it's "technically not illegal" so they won't do anything.

Fun unrelated fact : Calling people a "vile cunt" is also technically not illegal :^)

TravisTRetriever

3 years, 7 months ago

link

^This.

AzureMarsupial

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I have had a ticket up for literal months over someone taking and modding Tropicana's clean cub art and modding it for porn, which is -really- frustrating her. : / The both of us have been posting tickets and getting no reply.

Your example is even -worse-. I'm getting pretty frustrated with the lack of this site actually -doing- anything.

HannibalAzul

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ AzureMarsupial

Honestly DMCA the site and they'll have to act or risk a lawsuit. Haha.

DjijeyHellfire

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Sometimes it feels like they've stopped moderating the site, aka, doing their jobs

Honestly feel they should get more people on as moderators to take care of this shit

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ DjijeyHellfire

Oh no don't worry they're doing the important work like bullying Roarey into adhering to random standards.

DjijeyHellfire

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Well i don't agree with that either, if they have pedophiles bragging about wanting to fuck kids that should be the priority to get rid off and not whether or not Roarey called someone a cunt.

In the end the admins have to fix this or dare i say, the current mods have to be replaced by someone who will fix these problems and bring the site back to an acceptable state where pedo's won't be allowed to make journals like Wolfblade show here.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ DjijeyHellfire

They can't see the problem.

They don't see the distinction between actual pedos expressing actual desires, vs people who are only making fiction of shit they have no rl desires at all for.

Which is what people are afraid we all are, and why the rest of us who CAN see the difference get so much hate.

EvanSKVRL

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Honestly, considering I have open tickets from over a year ago now, along with this, I may be done with this site soon. I still maintain it's the best site in terms of UI, uploader, block list, etc., but the absolute failure of mods to do their jobs and allowing things like this to go on is just inexcusable.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ EvanSKVRL

They like to downplay my involvement or contribution, but the block list was also something I had to fight hard to get Jery to not just throw out when the FA cub ban happened.

The flood of angry cubs exiled from FA had a good chunk of people openly bragging that they were intentionally NOT tagging their work to make the site inhospitable for anyone who would want to block cub. Jery wanted to just make tagging entirely optional just to not have to do anything about that. I had to push HARD to get him to keep tags mandatory. He couldn't get how the block system is useless if tags are optional.

Sadly, no amount of pushing on my part could stop them from still siding with the intentionally-antagonistic cubs and many people who only gave the site a shot because of assurances that the block system would keep cub off their plate - many assured of that by me personally - were told by staff "if it bothers you so much, your needs may be better served elsewhere."

Could just be I misinterpreted Jery's assurances of them not just wanting to be JUST a cub site. When I asked him right out "are you making a site just for cubs, or for everyone" and he said "I want to make a site for everyone," I must have just been too full of myself or something to interpret that correctly.

drHarms

3 years, 7 months ago

link

It still pisses me off that people refuse to tag stuff just so that it slips past blocklists so they can "try and connect to new, potential fans."

Like no... that's not how you build a fanbase, that's how you tank a platform. I hate how this false dichotomy has been created.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ drHarms

I gave them good ideas and sound principles to launch under - and they've demonstrated they never understood half of it, and just let people they favor do as they will.

The detractors said they'd never make anything but a haven for pedos.

I tried to help them see what they had to do to NOT validate that claim. It was a fight every time, and I've learned from the experience of being so wrong and so foolish to not just see the detractors were right.

Now kadm's pointing to my old alt account where I drew the hard stuff like it's the same thing. It was always an open secret I never denied, I just sorted the extreme stuff to a separate sona to be considerate to my main audience.

They can't tell the difference between what is and isn't okay, what is and isn't simply fantasy, so they defend shit that gets this kind of reaction when people become aware of it - and don't understand how it's different from the fake-ass fiction crap that people don't give a shit about.

drHarms

3 years, 7 months ago

link

God yeah I know what that's like. Everyone's past is there to haunt them forever no matter what they do or how separate it is from their public persona.

Though an alt account with extreme stuff sounds interesting. I'd love to see it if you still have it up and if you're willing to share it.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ drHarms

Looks like I cleared both of them at some point. I thought I'd left the stuff here.

There's probably fucktons of it on e621 or whatever people use to post stuff that isn't theirs these days. XD

"kuma-kun" was the alt handle. But I started using that before the pedobear meme happened. That was unfortunate and annoying coincidence. 9_9

drHarms

3 years, 7 months ago

link

lmao well I'll have to look around for it~

Masakados

3 years, 7 months ago

link

why do you even care? he's just a tard on the internet writing crap that never happened. pretty sure as long as he's just uploading text its all fair as far as legality goes, that's how nambla is still allowed to exist.
im certainly not gonna be following that account the same way i dont follow accounts with porn i don't like. you should do the same.

RollerCoasterViper59

3 years, 7 months ago

link

we care because the guy talks as if he does this shit irl.. there is a barrier between fantasy and doing thing irl and he's clearly breaking that line. It might just be text to you but that shit is creepier than a motherfuck to everyone else

Masakados

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ RollerCoasterViper59

you care because you got nothing better to do, lets be honest here. this slippery slope of you cant write or draw stuff only leads to becoming furaffinity.
even if he hypothetically were to do any of that dumb shit IRL, what would you or the IB staff be able to do to stop it? banning him will only make him go write somewhere else.

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

That's the POINT. Not writing that shit here, not polluting this community with that...disturbing shit. The point is exactly that, them going somewhere else that's NOT here

RollerCoasterViper59

3 years, 7 months ago

link

This

Masakados

3 years, 7 months ago

link

really nigga? you got all these people writing about hard rape and cockvoring fictional children in this site but that one guy is the one that goes too far with his writings about fictional children, now you have "standards"?

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Ummmmm we ALWAYS had standards. That standard being have a fucking brain and learn to distinguish fiction from reality. No one gives a flying fuck about your fetishes when it comes to FICTIONAL people because, guess what, they aint real. But when you target REAL people that's when you cross the fucking line and you need to go. This is not the place for it "nigga"

Masakados

3 years, 7 months ago

link

okay if you can differentiate reality from fiction, then text shouldn't bother you.

are we done here?

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Except the text is NOT fiction, it's being directed at REAL children, NOT fictional characters. Considering the fact that the staff have done their job yes we are indeed done here

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I can't necessarily agree with that last part, because, if that is true, he is just a ticking time bomb, sending him somewhere else seems like we're getting hid of the problem for ourselves rather than the obvious problem with him as a whole.

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

And what are we supposed to do? Let them continue polluting this fanbase with that garbage? We aren't psychologists nor are we force to help them through their mental issues. All we CAN do is safeguard our community by kicking them out and letting them be someone else's problem

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I suppose you can't let them "pollute" this platform, because it is our safe-haven, yet It was clear that the admins won't do anything about "stinks" as mentioned before, so the odds of other people just posting this stuff constantly, but not yet being found out will just repeat itself, and so to who can you go for help with issues like when that happens. As mentioned before the site won't be taking any actions on this, even more now. So... How long till this place just let go of people who disagree with that.

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Except the site did take action, the journals were deleted. If anything this served to call attention to the issue

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Yes, but haven't they declared they won't be doing this kind of thing anymore?

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I mean i haven't read through every single comment on this journal because, good god, but all i've seen was Kadm saying that the journals were deleted, i saw no mention of this same action not being taken again in the future

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Fair enough, though I would like to take action, to whatever is it in my power; Which does not include ranting on a site over and over just like in twitter and Facebook, expecting anything to change. There must organs that take care of investigating this stuff and actually finding out where this is based on real stuff or just something that makes most people feel uncomfortable.

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Anyway thanks for the talk, else this is gonna forever and I don't want to take too much of your time.

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

There is a difference between someone posting drawings that feature fetishes that you don't like and someone making journals about IRL shit that not only is highly illegal but also has no place in this site. It's not something you can just ignore

Shinxtailes

3 years, 7 months ago

link

And there's a difference between acting like a clown while acting like Leafyishere while doing the right actions while being a clown for others and act like they're in the right. Yes, I agree this shouldn't be on the site, but I have to disagree that posting this is the same way as reporting this. It's like that other user who posted a journal when the large amount of spam of bots. Within five minutes it going live, they acting like the staff should've magically know shit about to happened.

All I see here is someone acting like Keemstar and trying to act like they're in the right.

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Shinxtailes

I don't recall saying i agree with what Wolfblade is doing here or that this is the right way to do things. Then again this seems to have worked in the past so...At least it brings awareness?

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

The specific previous matters I mention here - and dozens of others - I took to them privately as a concerned friend first back when those happened. They disregarded, ignored, or even defended the shit, every time.

I do not argue against the view that this public tactic is not the optimal default. I agree with that take.

But this user has been reported many times, for months, it's not new to them, and I'm no longer a friend to any of them. They defended RL bestiality and traced CP when I was a friend trying to get them to see sense and do what they never should have needed to be TOLD to do in the first place. I just chalked it up to honest stupidity or short-sightedness. I know better now, so I'm just jumping to what may actually show them their userbase is not okay with this even if they are.

Lovemet123

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Shinxtailes

"You only see what you want to see."

Masakados

3 years, 7 months ago

link

>its not something you can ignore
as a matter of fact, it is. it is literally something you can ignore.

Hammytoy

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I need to stop reading about things like this

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Hammytoy

I know. I was the one who found these screencaps.
Shit stuck with me for awhile. Repulsive.

Chatin

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Nothing surprises me in this community anymore. Everyone that runs it is full of themselves and do whatever they want.

Dracostar

3 years, 7 months ago

link

THis is all kinds of fucked up x_x

RollerCoasterViper59

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Dracostar

This

MistahToonCatUwU

3 years, 7 months ago

link

inkbunny's staff is no longer amongst us

kinda wanna see if someone will make a new place for us

TravisTRetriever

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I mean, a fair chunk of the furry fandom has long jumped ship from FA to Twitter. I'm still waiting for Twitter to ban adult content like Tumblr did. Which I later learned was because some awful PoS posted actual child porn there. Given the huge number of MAPs ("Minor Attracted Persons"--read: the PC term for pedophiles) on Twitter, I'd say it's only a matter of time before the hammer finally comes down there too.

And of course, I'm told by folks here and elsewhere that both Patreon and Paypal are both continuing to put the screws on furry content creators of all types.

Given that FA, and IB and well, let's be honest here, pretty much all furry art gallery sites always so horribly run and managed, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there is no alternative or new sites for furry porn artists or for their customers. Let alone those who make and/or like cub stuff.
That said, one possible alternative I've heard is actually Newgrounds of all places.

As for payment processors, I'm surprised more furries, given how tech savvy we are as a group, haven't just gone into crypto-currency in lieu of paypal and banks, tbh.

Ruaidhri

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I'd love a site that is basically Inkbunny but better, but it's hard to manage a site like that as furries generally REALLY dislike cub artists and the only sites cub artists can go to at this point is e621 and Twitter, both absolute hellholes.

Reyedog

3 years, 7 months ago

link

What the Fuckity fuck did I just read. That is goddamn gross. I know I Used to draw some odd things here & there But I never took it to reality or like that to the extreme. Hell No. If that shit is still here I am the fuck out of here. Cause Nope. Just a big fat goddamn huge Nope.

And people wonder why I only look at things & shut the hell up on here these days.

I can't support this place anymore.

Epsilion

3 years, 7 months ago

link

While the contents of these journals are indeed terrible (and nothing of value would be lost by them being removed), it's interesting how this journal completely flies in the face of the last journal you made, almost 3 years ago.

"	Freedom of speech is meaningless if there is no protection of speech that people disapprove of. If nobody has a problem with what is being said, there's nothing to protect.

This is not about defending, agreeing with, endorsing, or condoning anything that any one user expresses as their beliefs or opinions. It's about the fact that you either defend all speech, or you participate in the behaviors that CAUSE the rise of far more dangerous methodologies and ideologies than the trivial shit going on with a simple furry website.

A lot really changes in that time, eh?

Furryluv19

3 years, 7 months ago

link

The problem with your state,met is that the person is speaking as if their thinking about doing this irl. That isn't free speech. That is warning signs that this user needs to be put away and get help. It's not free speech if it infringes upon the rights of others and these posts duo just that, and to the rights of minors no less. I'm sorry if you disagree but this kind of stuff is what gives our fandom a bad name and it gives this site a bad name.

Epsilion

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Furryluv19

It's not about whether or not it's disturbing, or "a sign"

This falls under that free speech that he was so adamant about in his previous journal. The only difference is, now it's not so agreeable. It also doesn't help that they're not his friend this time.

Furryluv19

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I'll just say agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I share some of my thoughts down below.

https://inkbunny.net/j/399468#commentid_2235200

The hypocrisy is intentional on Wolfblade's part, and built-in.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Glad you picked up mind-reading, asserting intentional hypocrisy.

Wrong on both.

It's not hypocritical because speech simply expressing opinions or views or stances on general topics, or word choice when responding in a direct exchange - are not the same as someone expressing an actual rl desire for something fucking vile.

"Fantasy" for some means "imagining something they want to actually do" and THAT is separate from whether or not they intend to do it.

"Fantasy" for others is imagining things with NO desire to actually do them. Games, movies, ALL of popular art and media and fiction are indulging in fantasy that is - for MOST PEOPLE - this second type. Playing Jedi doesn't mean you have ANY actual desire or interest or sense of pleasure from imagining REALLY force-strangling someone or laser-swording them in half.

The SECOND KIND is the kind of fantasy that is harmless and is wrong to point to as cause for concern or worry of a potential offender.

The first kind IS a valid cause for concern and IS an indication of an actual potential offender.

But again, I am saying this knowing you aren't able to follow. If you could perceive this - you already would have, entirely on your own, and you'd have had the same reaction that all these other plenty-okay-with-cub-porn-or-worse people had at first sight of those journals.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Sorry, I was not aware that you didn't have the extra context. You were not intentionally hypocritical. Merely unintentionally.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Your lack of understanding the concept isn't hypocrisy on my part.

Freedom of speech doesn't cover "I am going to murder someone, and since I have put that into speech, you are prohibited from taking action."

Voicing opinions and views, arguing over topics, using profanity or insulting language - none of that is simply voicing desire to commit crime, harm, or evil shit. Creating fiction of a fantasy is not the same as simply honestly musing about evil shit in reality. People who do not innately grasp that VERY clear and stark line - are the people for whom concern is most warranted.

If you don't understand the difference, that's fine, the staff clearly doesn't either, but that's your problem to sort out.

Epsilion

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Nope, I understand it perfectly fine :3

As

Kadm

mentions, the person who wrote those journals claimed them to be works of fiction, making it no different than any other snuff/rape/gore image or story - you are just trying to use a lack of context, along with your status, to target someone whom you dislike. Claiming ignorance over context, as you did in a reply to Kadm, stopped being a valid defense the moment you posted a public callout.

If anything, it shows that this wasn't about facts, or the "safety" of anyone - you couldn't be bothered to do a few moments of research before rushing to tell everyone how evil this person was, when it turns out, the content he posted is of equivalent status to the art you have drawn yourself, on your alt.
Unless you think we should go back and look into your snuff art, and try to construe it as an expression of a desire to commit a willful act of violence? That seems to be consistent with what you're calling for.

And like it or not, that is covered by the unlimited free speech that you so desired.

"	Freedom of speech is meaningless if there is no protection of speech that people disapprove of. If nobody has a problem with what is being said, there's nothing to protect.

The issue is that now you're on the other side of the argument. It's not so easy to defend something that you disapprove of.

This is all about you - Don't try and turn it around on the people who are capable of looking through the façade you've put up.
You have no investment in Inkbunny.
You just wanted to start an argument.
An argument that wasn't easily defensible due to the "jump on the bandwagon" nature of cancel culture. Perhaps if you dislike the site so much (and it doesn't appear that you use it much), and think that the moderation team is such garbage, you would be better of somewhere with more of the particular brand of freedom that you so desire. Maybe FurAffinity would fit the bill?

It's very saddening to see where you've ended up.

Folsen

3 years, 7 months ago

link

What organs of justice would take upon investigating something like this? And if it really is tough that this person could be a danger wouldn't the best idea to appellate to one of these organs or even to any organization that can investigate this specific type of stuff?

ShanetheFreestyler

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I think I feel physically sick now...

whitepawrolls

3 years, 7 months ago

link

It's not doing things about stuff like this that will get IB closed. I hope they get off their rears soon and start doing something about it, but from my own experience on posting tickets about stuff against the rules going unanswered I don't see that happening.

RaccoonRanch

3 years, 7 months ago

link

well....at least admins eventually care and do something....GOOD LUCK MANAGING TO MAKE ANY F.A. ADMIN DO A DAMN THING EVER.... i just got messages from a chinese girl offering webcam porn sessions, i think these sites are being attacked by either hackers, or maybe chinese "ghost companies" trying to get access to our data. yes...i know it sounds tinfoil hat levels of crazy, but it is happening. those mobile games like raid shadow legends or whatever, are nothing but bait so they can access your data. that's why they are ffe, cus their real business, is selling the data they get from your phones....but, anyway.

hackers are imbeciles. and....honestly? i still have a lot of respect for admins here, again, this is the most artist friendly site. try to post an entire comic issue on fur affinity without using many hacker skill points....or try to get them answer any complaint from you, they only listen to hate mail and false accusations, or they just ban you without warning because you borke their very grey and undefined rules.

yes, i am still on fur affinity, cus most of my customers are there. that's frankly the only reason.

also....bestiality content....sounds like a moronic hater trying to piss us off, maybe a follower of the nostalgia critic, spoony, saberspark or any other furry hater out there.... :)

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ RaccoonRanch

Doug Walker a furry hater? If that was really a thing don't you think Malcolm, a KNOWN FURRY would have stopped working with him by now? Yeah you definitely sound like one of those nutjobs that have a conspiracy theory about everything and everyone. Also way to jump on the hate bandwagon for RSL. Do you have PROOF that game is stealing people's data? Cause without proof you just sound absolutely insane

RaccoonRanch

3 years, 7 months ago

link

doug walker has made it clear he hates furry community (remember his lola bunny jokes?) come on.  and....seriously. are you trying to defend walker? after the miserable things he did on channel awesome? really? those are not "conspiracy" rumors, those are facts, he was a colossal douchebag. a terrible person to his staff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvedKSaHCBQ  more about your hero, doug walker.

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/over-1000-android-apps-were...   here's more info....sorry if the source aint "liberal" enough....or maybe it is....that bs about left or right in media has never been mu cup of tea.

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/08/hackers-use-fake-mobile...   it is known that chinese hackers (or corporations, not sure on that) have made a very big business on selling private data to other companies by straling it from users via games downloads. again, check this out. it iiappening, you like the game? good for you, but....check the links.

and...malcolm....i think you mean saberspark. not sure....the least i wanna know is the real name of those "celebrities". if you mean saberspark. yeah, he has made it very clear that he does not like furries, his video about EL ARCA. is nothing but a rant on him hating adult content furry arts, and those who draw it. HE HAS ALL THE RIGHT TO NOT LIKE ADULT FURRY ART, T'S NOT MY POINT. but....use his channel to mock and showcase the entire community as weirdos....yeah, he has done that. he can say he is a furry....i can say i work with nasa, that doesn't mean i do work with nasa, right?

and, calling me nutjob just cus i offend a youtuber you like? thanks for proving my point about fanbases.

hatewagon for rsl....ARE YOU KIDDING ME? i dont even care about the game, yes, it is a pain in the ass how agressively they are buying youtubers, the game is way overpraised, YOU LIKE IT? COOL. GOOD FOR YOU. but....hatewagon? gimme a break, pal. seriously....wtf?

malcolm a known furry.....lol....WOLFBLADE IS A KNOWN FURRY, malcolm (again, if you mean saberspark) is just another youtuber who thinks he owns the absolute truth about movies just because he has a channel. if you like that. cool. your right. i do respect that. and i wont call you a nutjob for liking it. i dont do that, cus....adult me am :)

c ya around.

rick2tails

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ RaccoonRanch

Saberspark doesnt hate furries. He has atended mlp conventions and has openly talked about how much he likes anthro content in animated movies and shows especially the ponies. He makes jokes about himself often as a furry for humor on the youtube channel.But I`ve never seen him saying furries are sick or bad people or that they should go away or anything. At most he just jokes about the mild weirdness being attracted to cartoon animal people is.And it is.It is weird but its harmless and if anyone truly has a problem with that then theyre a sad person.But you cant be so sensative that someone making some mild jokes about adult themed anthro content is someone who hates furries

VinMcGrey

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Good fucking lord . . .

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

1. These are journals, not story submissions. They should be taken into account as somebody having these gory fantasies about real children. Which is just... disturbing... to say the least.

2. Even if these are / were fictional submissions, they are talking about human children. Last I checked, sexual depictions of any human-like being are banned from this site.

I cannot say much about thought crimes and all that, but I don't feel comfortable about somebody openly stating such violent fantasies about real children on a site that's supposed to be enforcing fantasy. The person who made those journals? I just hope they don't enact their fantasies onto an actual person or animal - ever. That's all I can hope for.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Seems pretty clear and obvious, right?

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Yeah, really does.

Mvindo

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I don't really know what to make of this. There's a difference between saying "here's a list of people I want to kill" and "here's a list of people I'm going to kill". I don't know which category this falls into.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Mvindo

The problem is more about, haters think anyone who draws or writes fiction of this sort is masturbating to actual rl children and imagining actually doing harm to real live human kids.

Here's someone who clearly actually is that.

And here's the leading site for this content going "Yeah, we see no difference between these two things, either - they're both the same, and we think both are okay."

Hence the dramatic increase of intolerance of any fucked up fiction and anyone touching it, because detractors deny that anyone can tell the difference between fantasy and reality - and IB's staff demonstrate that's not inaccurate in their case.

Mvindo

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I hear what you're saying, but let's get back to that later. There's something I forgot to ask you earlier. Did this individual say anything like "I'm going to do XYZ" or "I have done XYZ", or "I want you to do XYZ"?

Kapricus

3 years, 7 months ago

link

It's unfortunate we do not have an alternative site to go to. I'm not allowed on FA because my goat looked too young even outside of cub stature. I've only been sharing new pieces around on Telegram.

It's sad that the moderators and the Inkbunny users that agree with the moderators either ignore or have me blocked on Telegram and warn people I have art with a "problematic" individual. Oh well, I very rarely use this website anyway. My goal at the very beginning was engage in the community here and meet new people, but I just cannot be bothered to try that anymore.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Kapricus

Wow, I'm surprised at that. I didn't know you'd been semi-cancelled by these people, too. I've seen you in a few groups we're both in, and I rarely speak up just to avoid being blamed for starting anything if people see me and decide to blast me for the myriad blasphemies I make against the current religion that seems to have stuck really deeply into this site's circles.

I'm still trying to work out the psychological mechanics of how the most puritanical and least-tolerant ideology seems to find such successful purchase in people who will always be the FIRST group to be thrown onto the purity-purge fires. >_<

The leading theory is that it's simply both being a product of stunted or impeded mental maturation, and I'm overthinking it by trying to resolve the logic conflict that the relevant people just aren't able to be aware of.

All that aside; I'm friendly on telegram, if you're interested. <:3

xtchizobr

3 years, 4 months ago

link

Any chance I get both of your Telegrams? I've been such a fan of yours, Wolfblade, for years and years (new Mad Science version when?!) and I just can't bear the thought of losing track of you.

ezalias

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Same deal with FurAffinity and Nazis.

I get it: moderation is hard. But having rigid constraints "to simplify things" only makes it harder, if they limit what moderators can do. This website is not a government. The assholes can't vote you out or take you to court. Be willing to say "fuck that" when confronted with something intolerable.

Mods - you have to let yourselves use your brains. The rules as written are guidelines. If you see terrible shit from terrible people, just get rid of it, and let them bitch about it. The bitching is fine. The bitching cannot hurt you. You could get rid of it anyway. The entire point is - it's up to you. Only you determine what's on your website. Be responsible for it. Be proud of hosting the niche fetish art that you personally don't want to look at. Be fucking vicious about real-world fascists and pedophiles. Make life better for harmless weirdos.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ ezalias

That's the crux of it.

By the staff of the leading site for allowing this content demonstrating they can't tell the difference between rl pedos and harmless weirdos - that reinforces and validates the people who insist there's no distinction at all.

IB has made life worse for the harmless weirdos by defending the actual people who cause concern - and acting like we're all the same thing.

SilkySmoothChihuahua27

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Jesus Christ, that's awful. So terrible!

Well, time to contemplate leaving here again.

MistahToonCatUwU

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

why doesnt inkbunny have new mods? no one bothers to help anyone anymore with support tickets, let alone people who just openly race bait and be politically violent on a cub porn web site

honestly i hope more larger artsits here say something to force Mods here to act, theyre too behind the scenes and not transparent enough, because my patience is wearing thin despite being friends with someone ontop

MistahToonCatUwU

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

like please greenreaper, kadm, salmy or whoever the fuck runs this site and is Dragoneer's equivalent

run this shit back up, slowly starting to not want to be associated with this site despite almost being here for 10 years and meeting awesome friends here

no more "we're backed up, we're working on improving the net code or whatever shit it is", work on the community itself becasue at the end of the day, a barely used site with bells and whistles is a waste of money and effort if you dont have a good community traffic

TwoTails

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Kadm

just said they're wary of adding mods because they don't know anyone well enough to trust them with site controls and messages access.
But that's missing the point, those wouldn't be needed to flag priority problems. I've seen other sites add limited janitor positions thats purpose is to simply flag stuff for removal or error fixing & such. And probably in a way that makes serious problems more visible to mods rather than having to wade through lots of less important or echoed support tickets to notice.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Kadm's already defended those journals with "I think those are just someone voicing fantasy" and then trying to equate them to my old alt-hard art account that's never been any kind of secret.

So he clearly doesn't see the distinction between fictional art and someone just idle musing about reality.

Which is a good cause for alarm and concern.

MistahToonCatUwU

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

ehhhhhhhhh, i dunno man

the fact you come out of nowhere with pierce only becasue roarey left ib is kinda suspicious on what exactly your actions are

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Fair point. The two aren't directly related, and only serve as a reference for what they'll be pro-active in shutting down, vs what they'll sit and permit no matter what complaints or objections are made.

I haven't paid attention to the noise here for a long time. Roarey being harassed again is what brought my attention back here. Came to just remark on that, probably a passing comment or two, and that would have been it.

Then I saw those journals, and yeah - got triggered. The site defended and preserving that sort of shit is just the sort of shit that was at the root of MOST of the worst, most enraging fights I had with them, and what caused me to leave.

They're still doing the same shit.

Because I was an idiot to have ever believed what I thought when I was a defender and ally to them.

frogstune

3 years, 7 months ago

link

This is exactly what came to mind with me, and I think others are connecting the dots too, as TravisTRetriever pointed out in his 2nd comment thread. The link in this journal was used at least 4 minutes before this journal was made, on Roarey's Journal. Meaning he was invested in what was happening with Roarey, before he had any "concern" for this scapegoat "pedo" that he is trying to make the "hot topic". His 1st link shows that this was going on for few months, and the 2nd link shows a "response" journal from a few minutes prior. So I'd like to think that he simply came across this guy in a mad scramble to dig up something quick to use against IB admins, because otherwise, he'd have known before hand and withheld the information until he could use it at his convenience. The later would suggest hypocrisy, as if he actually had any concern for what this guy wrote, then he would have done something about it then. I'm curious as to how he came across this information in the first place, and when. Why he did it seems pretty clear.

Ruaidhri

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I feel like that person needs to be locked up in a mental hospital. e3e

stormlust

3 years, 7 months ago

link

get the guy to admit to this else where and call the law on his ass he prob has stuff like that on his pc

Ruaidhri

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ stormlust

According to other posts in this thread, he does have child pornography on his computer, so, honestly, he needs to be arrested before he goes and hurts a child.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ Ruaidhri

I don't think anyone said that. Just assumptions he does since he seems rather detached from reality/unstable.

Ruaidhri

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Ah, guess I misread.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Ruaidhri

It's not even just the "fucked up fantasies" it's the admission of access to children and talking about specific real children he sees he wants to do it to that is way over the fucking line.
I'd defend gore drawings being allowed. Because people can be fucked up deviants but be grounded in reality outside of it.
But this...

SkyPuppeh

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Thats being disgusting what has this world come to
><

BrokenPupper

3 years, 7 months ago

link

If I gotta be completely honest, I'm more on what Epsilon said here. I get that this sound awful but, aside the possibility that the person posting this could be trolling this site for all we know (as you are aware of well known trolls in this website), there's also this feeling of inconsistency of what is considered worth being concerned about.

For many years there have been people that have wanting to do shit to actual kids and some are even adamant enough to put stuff like "non/pro contact minor-attracted person in their own profile while others admit of being so long before Inkbunny even existed. Yet now it has to be taken seriously? Now we have to care about what is morally acceptable in this site?

The fact that you can't even show the member's name but gotta subjugate your whole fanbase with something that sounds serious is really telling too. Because sure gotta take your word for it but we can't figure out who this is otherwise the mods that are apparently 100% inept are also capable of automatically erasing this journal for callouts or whatever excuse we have to not see clear evidence that this even exists.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ BrokenPupper

It's actually worse than that, because it's blatantly misleading. Wolfblade, and the original poster share 4 captures of journals, but exclude the one where the user explicitly states that he has not harmed children, and has no intention of harming children, that essentially, the posts are a fanfiction. It's a clear intent to mislead and upset people.

This is just opportunism from Wolfblade. He has an agenda, and he's driving it forward no matter what. He's not active on the site, barely utilizes it, and maintains his account in order to utilize his large following as a tool to that end. And that's fine, we're generally pretty permissive of criticism of us, but let's not paint it like Wolfblade is doing anyone any favors.

Darkality

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Wolfblade is a furry porn artist with a major superiority complex. His entire shtick is that he will make these long drawn out argumentative essays about what is wrong with the fandom™ or society in general. He behaves like this all knowing entity that constantly has to point out all the shortcomings and mistakes of everyone around him. And why? Because he perceives himself as better than others. It's easy when you don't share your own insecurities or personal struggles online, to think of yourself as superior to those that open up about their past. His whole argument is exactly like those kids on Twitter and tumblr calling out cub artists as pedos or feral artists as zoophiles. He's no better than these people who think they are on a righteous crusade to rid the world of all the things they deem unacceptable. All he does is make an ass of himself, because people get tired of his constant whining and lack of content. When did he last make himself known through something else than crying about something in a journal? When was the last great project of his published? Wolfblade is a dog that is all bark and no bite. It's sad how a once great and published furry artist can become such a disgruntled Trump-ian rhetoric slinging shell of his former self.

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Just coming along to this here...

I have a bit of relief to hear that this has been stated as a fantasy, and no actual ill will towards real children. But why do it as journals where it can be misconstrued as real-life intent and desire? Why not put these 'journals' up as fictional entries as a submission, a 'diary' of sort?

That's just my opinion, though - a way to keep the line from blurring...

... But wait, 'fanfiction?' You mean like Tina Belcher's 'friend-fiction?' If he's writing about actual children in that way, then it shouldn't be allowed on the site. That's sexualising actual, human children. I would like further clarification.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

We agree with this premise, and that's why several of the user's journals were removed and he was told that they needed to be submissions, and comply with the ACP.

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Thank you for looking into this and taking the concern with heavy consideration.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I don't want to misinterpret.

So the journals which directly referenced specific actual rl children were removed and not allowed on the site - or you told him those had to be in the form of submissions, at which point it's acceptable to pass off direct reference to actual specific rl human children as fiction?

Cuz that would be, again, furthering the point of the problem with you guys' inability to see the line and its importance.

Really REALLY hoping you mean that any reference to specific rl children were simply deemed unacceptable - but then that begs the question of why you think the remaining journals which are still obviously talking about actual rl kids - even if not singling any out - is somehow permissible. -_-;;

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

The journals which referenced real, actual humans, and sexual content, have been removed. The user has been directed that submissions must be in compliance with the Acceptable Content Policy (no humans in sexual situations), and that the content would best be placed as submissions where they can be keyworded and blocked appropriately.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

"It's only make-believe" is only a defense when the line between fiction and reality is made clear - and it is clear that letting the fantasy spill into reality is NOT defensible.

Permitting art and stories of fiction are one thing. Journals are another. Allowing that line to be blurred reduces the validity of the "it's only make-believe" defense. Not just for this user, or the site, or you, but for EVERYONE out there for whom it IS only make-believe and fiction and fantasy and who fucking know the damn difference.

THAT'S what you guys have never fucking understood. The majority of the shit that I have been at odds with this site over boils down to THAT. I watch people who clearly fucking know the difference between reality and fiction get shit on and harassed and hurt and abused for what is only thought - and the abusers point to people who DON'T have that clear and distinct separation of fantasy and reality as the reason to do so.

Every one of these issues - including this one - were the chance for this site to show the broader community that ANY people with fucked up fantasy fiction crap are capable of knowing where the line is. THIS SITE has repeatedly and consistently - and is still doing so with this specific instance - shown the broader community that YOU DO NOT have the capacity to see where that line is.

That's what people are afraid of. That's what is VALID to be concerned about. That's what those of us who CAN tell the difference get abused for, because those of you who CAN'T tell the difference ARE cause for concern, and get the rest of us branded along with you.

That is why each of these things prompt even users who have zero problem with being on a fiction-permissive site being permissive of THIS. When that clear and inarguable separation between harmless fucked up fiction and expression of actual rl desires is blurred - by allowing "fanfiction" like that in journals, for example - people who are okay with accepting the fiction but not the reality HAVE NO CHOICE but to distance from ALL of it because you have allowed the line to be blurry.

I'm not doing you any favors, but that's only because you never have, and never will, actually understand any of what I have just said.

Had my efforts even when I was a friend ever been understood, it WOULD have done the site tremendous favor. The only reason IB is not the singular and primary central hub of the whole fandom is BECAUSE the staff consistently chose to be what the detractors had right about them, and NOT what I had foolishly believed them to be instead.

Jery said it himself. He started off saying he wanted to be a site for everyone - and eventually admitted he never really wanted to be anything but the cub site.

Your inability to see the difference between those journals and actual fiction/art without needing anyone to explain it to you is WHY people hate cubs. Their fear is of people who can't see that line that you cannot see. They think ANYONE on one side is as much of a threat and danger as the people on the other side. The site staff, with these decisions, validates the people who want to hate all of us because you demonstrate being the dangers they think we all are.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

"	Wolfblade wrote:
	Permitting art and stories of fiction are one thing. Journals are another. Allowing that line to be blurred reduces the validity of the "it's only make-believe" defense. Not just for this user, or the site, or you, but for EVERYONE out there for whom it IS only make-believe and fiction and fantasy and who fucking know the damn difference.

Hey, Look, a point that I agree with you on. I think that there's too much ambiguity in what is allowed in journals, versus what should be in a submission and behold to the requirements therein. I brought it up as something we can improve on today. I think we can add necessary clarity to avoid edge-cases.

The rest of this though is just more of you attacking the site, and I don't care. You're an opportunist tearing something down because it's not in line with what you want it to be. I don't care about those people that are detractors. I will continue to operate the site in-line with what I believe the founding ethos and the current leadership believe is correct.

We have never held being the largest furry site on the internet to be one of our goals. In fact, many is the time I can recall the idea coming up and being put to bed as overly ambitious. The goal is simply to operate the best site we can on our terms.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I am saying this with absolute sincerity. I'm not posturing or anything. I am remembering a point where we were friendly, and my eyes are watery because that was a nice memory.

This further demonstrates you just cannot see the actual damn point here. The point that has always been my point when the site thought I was just being a meany because one day I decided to be a meany.

Most people reading any of this will see what I am talking about - and see that it is invisible to you.

That makes me honestly, genuinely, very sad.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I occasionally think back to those times too, and I dislike the way that this has played out. It's unfortunate, and I don't go through life trying to drive people away.

But at the same time, I think much of your behavior in terms of your relationship with this site is unhealthy. You can't accept when people don't do what you want, and you're willing to use all the tools at your disposal to try and force unwanted change. If you feel betrayed by the site itself, or the people that run it, I'm sorry. But 8 years later, it's time for you to move on.

I'm also not aware of any attempt in the last five years to advocate for any sort of change that wasn't just public grand-standing. Again, I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that the only reason you leave your account here is so you can do just this.

You don't sit down and have an open dialogue with people. Maybe because of your issues in the past. Great. But how do you think the people on the receiving end feel, every time this happens? It's hard to have fond memories of the past when the present is nothing but antagonism and ultimatums.

You don't have to do this sort of thing, in this sort of way. Sometimes, maybe you won't get your way, but you could also try reaching out to people. Or filing a support ticket. You personally didn't submit a ticket about this, and neither did Pierce. I handled the only two tickets ever submitted against this user (at the end of May).

Apparently, I erred, and somebody brought a valid argument against the content to the front, and we acted in line with that. I failed to consider the human nature of the content, as it applied to site guidelines.I'll move on, and we'll improve our guidelines and precedent moving forward.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

"You just want to have your way."

I want you to think of some time in your life where you legitimately cared and wanted to save someone from making a mistake, and they didn't listen.

Imagine a person cannot conceive of "you are very very wrong on this, and I am trying to help you" as anything but "I just want to have my way."

"My way" that is at the root of all those disagreements, what I wanted, was for people I considered friends and who I wanted to help succeed to not simply be actual pedophiles and/or people who lack the ability to perceive the distinction between actual just-fantasy versus legitimate real desires. What I tried to push was always what would need to happen for that to not simply be the observable and demonstrated rational conclusion to draw from the actions and decisions themselves.

You'll never be able to see me as anything but just some guy who had to have his own way. Even when those previous mentioned incidents showed that enough of the users felt the same way I did, that the site DID alter position accordingly.

Were those incidents the site seeing that I had a point? Was it just giving me my way so I'd shut up? Was it thinking I was the only person who felt that way or wanted those courses of action - and the public noise was just some mind control over drones? This is an actual question because I can't formulate how you must assess those past situations. I made a suggestion. I said "this is how people think and what they are and are not okay with." The site ignored me. Then I proved my point by showing that a large amount of people DO and DID express exactly what I had said they would express.

Do you think that suggests I simply had a point every time?

Or does it suggest I have some kind of magic fucking power?

What explanation exists in your mind to make "Wolfblade was wrong and only wanting HIS way" and "the site did what he pushed for after users backed up Wolfblade's assertions/position, but that doesn't mean they were wrong" both somehow work at the same time?

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

The question I'd pose first is whether or not you actually care anymore. If you do, great. Then for the love of god, sit down and have a reasonable dialogue with people instead of abusing your fanbase to drive this. Everyone involved would probably think more highly of you if you were a part of solutions to problems instead of an antagonist.

I don't label people things for life. I'm capable of changing my opinion based on new information, and altering course if I want to. If you were to suddenly stop using your journals as a platform to enact change and instead participate in the system the way the average user does, my consideration of you might change. But you made zero effort here. You brought zero good faith concern. You simply objected to the content on the basis of it's content, and tossed it to the crowd. You didn't even bring the argument that resulted in the content being removed.

Honestly, I can't comment on the other incidents you bring up, because I didn't handle them personally, and I don't recall the context. I don't know what changed things.You could privately link me those, and I can look back, and consider, if you think it has any value.

Let me amend some of my previous comments here and now. I was wrong in May. Wolfblade was right. I made a mistake. I own the mistake. I move on from the mistake. We take actions to ensure the mistake doesn't occur again by improving documentation and process.

I am not infallible, and have never claimed as such. In fact, I think I have a history of owning my mistakes, and trying to fix them.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Do you fucking think the FIRST time any of this came up, I just jumped right to FUCK ALL Y'ALL FUCK GRAAAAAH MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY?

No.

You don't get to tell someone who tried everything the better way, the nicer way, the friendlier way, the softer and personal and private and YOUR PREFERRED WAY, over and over, and only ever got ignored and disregarded and misrepresented as "you just have to have it your way because you are selfish and only concerned with you, and you're mean and we don't like you anymore" - and a decade of this, you start to see some semblance of a portion of my point, so now that you want to maybe consider - tell me to just drop all the damage and hurt I felt and continued to get thrown at me.

That you think that is reasonable is related to your inability to see the unreasonable in your approach to Roarey.

I showed my concern and dedication and support and desire to help this place. I was never anything BUT a friend until everything I had been was repeatedly ignored and thrown away and denied and all my help was reduced to "you just want it your way." I abandoned a larger audience to throw my full support into this site. I put my name and reputation out there advocating and defending and endorsing this site. I used peoples' personal trust in ME, as a human being they had followed for years and thought highly enough of to believe me when I said "no, really, the filter system is there, if you don't want to see cub, you just block it." When people said "isn't it just a bunch of pedos building a haven for other pedos," I said no, that's just the haters, they have a filter system, Jery told me himself he isn't just building a cub site, he wants to provide a place for EVERYONE, where nobody is targeted for harassment and made to feel unwelcome just because of what they like.

And they believed me. Because I had earned that from them. And they came here. And this site's launch was a success despite the initial surge of users NOT being mostly cubs.

Then FA banned cub and the cubs flooded and intentionally didn't tag their stuff on purpose and declared their intent was to explicitly make other users feel unwelcome to force them to leave.

And the site staff CHOSE - made the DECISION - to defend that, to not shut down the active antagonists, to tell people bothered by broken promises that they could leave.

You have no fucking idea what kind of a personal assault it is to do that to a friend who put his name on the line to stand up for you and help your shit succeed.

"Wolfblade just has to have it his way."

My mistake was in believing what Jery told me of his intentions. When he said he understood me and agreed - he didn't. I was wrong to trust him. I was wrong to put my trust in him. And I was wrong to convince people who trusted me to trust this site. Because IB has CHOSEN, each of these fucking things, every time, to prove those initial haters were actually correct in what they predicted would be the site's real priorities and purpose. And to make a liar of me specifically for believing what I was told, and I will admit - it's entirely MY assumption that the people running it had a mental capacity for perceiving a line of right and wrong that they have demonstrated they do not. THAT was me presuming against evidence, so sure, that's on me.

The belittling you throw at my role in all this, and thinking I just turned on this site for no fucking reason at all, while never having been wronged in the tiniest amount to prompt any of the shift you have seen in me from the guy you met in that room party, to what you get now...

You have no idea what you are talking about. You're blind or ignorant to more than you can possibly know.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I empathize with your frustration. But whatever you experienced in the past is half a decade gone. If you care sincerely, and aren't just concern trolling, you have options. But I'm concerned that you're starting to get heated as the initial point of this journal falls completely apart.

To my knowledge, you have extended absolutely zero reasonable attempts to help in the last 5 years. You've barely been active on the site the last three, and even then, only to do things like this. Maybe you're the one who has affixed a label and can't change their view at all. What's the point of me reaching out to compromise if you're simply going to become more heated even after we compromise?

If every post you make has to bring up how much we hurt you, you may need to decide if you're carrying this hurt too far. The people that supposedly hurt you aren't even here anymore.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ BrokenPupper

I didn't take the screenshots, just linking them.

If I pointed the user's name out, that WOULD be breaking some rule they'd slap me for, I'm sure. The user's account is known to them, so it does not need to have users aimed at it. The purpose is not to direct the public to go bomb this person, but to simply give the staff a look at what a general reaction from their userbase to seeing this sort of thing would be. If that does or does not prompt a course change from them - they can do that without the public needing to see the username.

If people think I just made it all up or photoshopped this out of my ass or something, well, it's simple enough to just disregard someone you think would do that.

The reason this is a point of issue is because a site that is going out of its way to harass a user who just uses profanity and hostility in response to people attacking him over shit that is nothing close to this kind of crap - while they defend things like this and the other shit I mentioned - has a severe problem. Their scales of right and wrong, good and bad, acceptable and unacceptable are fucked.

When you have a faulty instrument, you compare it to multiple functioning ones to recalibrate.

Their perception of that shit is faulty. I'm holding up the feedback of users for them to have the opportunity to recalibrate their broken shit.

There's no magic or mind control or forcing anything, they still have every option of just ignoring it all.

And users that are not okay with a site that can't even SEE the line between fiction and rl - have every option available to them, as to what they may feel like doing about it.

Samuelblack7horn

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I almost threw up while reading those journals.... I'm glad I don't know who that is...

SilverJackal

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Don't know who the person is, but I have a feeling that they may be a troll posting these journals to cause drama. Yes the admins need to get on the ball and do something, but this site has been pelted by trolls and haters since day one. Hell loads of furs on FA have been calling this site PedoBunny since it began because the cub furs migrated here after the infamous FA purge of '09, and because one of the admins was former chief of Softpaws Magazine.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ SilverJackal

They called it pedobunny because the creator/owner made Softpaw and because there was nobody involved in the site creation and initial promotion that weren't known cub-types, myself included.

If it's a troll, then all the more reason for them to not permit it.

The real issue is that they genuinely do not cognitively perceive the problem that most people see immediately. They don't see where the line between fictional fantasy vs desire for reality. THAT is what people who hate and attack all fucked up fetish art are afraid of.

IB has made all this shit worse by being a big shining beacon of exactly what the haters accuse is wrong with all of us: being unable to see where that line is, and NOT defend where people cross it.

SilverJackal

3 years, 7 months ago

link

A lot of people love to point fingers at what they believe is wrong with the Fandom, yet also at the same time try to find ways to defend other questionable things. I've seen furs rant and bitch over cub stuff and beastality, but fap to stuff like vore, snuff, and gore and try to come up with reasons to romantize it. Inkbunny got it "Pedo Bunny" label because of Kevin Softpaws and the cub fur exodus yes, but the nickname also came from the slime of FA and Dragoneer because IB posed a threat. IB runs smoother than FA, is more user friendly, and wasn't a total cluster fuck that had more holes in its security than a fishnet stocking and fell apart at the seams when something new was added. They did the same thing when Weasel was made as well. It's rather ironic that FA tries to paint itself as THE furry site, yet their con FAU is one of the smallest in existence; and the main users of the site are either devoted popufurs, the FA admin whore club, or artists that keep an FA going because some clients use it.

And WB, what kind of justice are you wanting to be done to this fur you are ranting on about? The admins did all they can do short of banning the guy, and his journals are more akin to shock and clickbait. Are you wanting the fur to be strung up at the next con and beaten with Bad Dragon dildos like a piñata? Waterboarded using the drool of your rabid fans still waiting for you to release "Oh Brother! 2"? Or perhaps smothered under the mountain of dust and dried cum that was collected from your old Furnation page?

And to all the other furs here complaining about the admins not doing anything about the artists that don't properly tag their work, I'm assuming that none of ya'll don't take the few seconds needed to add a tag to your blacklist. If the artist uses words other than "cub", add the words that can be grouped with it to your blacklist. Hell you can even blacklist an artist from showing up in your searches. Also there is the option of, you know, adding tags to submissions on the "suggested tags". Yes it will require you to click on the pics that pop up in your search, but you can survive glancing at cub peen for a second to add a tag. It's that simple folks.

TheDeinonychus

3 years, 7 months ago

link

There possibilities with this.
1. The guy is just an idiot. If he's actually acting like this IRL, he's going to do something stupid and land himself in trouble long before he actually hurts anyone.

2. He's just an idiot trying to be edgy. Nothing to see here, move on.

3. The worst possibility honestly. This guy is just an asshole trying to perpetuate the 'furfags are pedos' tripe that gets slung around now and then. I've seen it before. Some jerk-off will start up an account on some furry fandom site, lay low for a while, then start posting all sorts of the worst shit they can think up, then point to it as 'proof'.

stormlust

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ TheDeinonychus

i think hes on the idiot side of things as i dont think any one who is into that real kinda stuff will post openly on the web maybe on the dark web but not out here where they are just calling out for the fbi to bust down there door

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

It's possible Wolfblade has been mislead by Pierce, and is unaware of the users disclaimer that he has never and never intends to harm children, but even if he was mislead, I doubt he'll own up to it.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

No I gave him the actual account directly for him to see in DMs. But since you dragged me into this.
This is the great "absolving context" that kadm wants to preach about.
https://imgur.com/a/SrpgSSq
A journal he made taunting people after making journals like these for SEVEN MONTHS.
HE HAD MADE JOURNALS LIKE THESE FOR SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE HE MADE THIS ONE, AND WAS REPORTED BEFOREHAND AND TOLD HE WAS FINE.
But no, a little clause he adds to cover his ass AFTER ALREADY BEING REPORTED AND TOLD HE'S OK is what absolves a pedosadist claiming to have so little control of his urges he needs to rush to masturbate after seeing a certain child. Who is working a summer job looking after children...

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

This is as I told you privately, categorically untrue. The user in question received no implicit or explicit permission, and when we acted on reports, the journal above was already there.

IBp

3 years, 7 months ago

link

That doesn't change the larger point.
The context of this just being a taunt and runs against his self-alleged behavior in other journals.
However; my issue is different than Wolfblade's. So maybe that changes things.
I just think this is pure hypocrisy you'd fuck with Roarey over offending users with "harsh language" but blatant unhinged lunatics spewing troll shit that makes everyone look awful is "ok." and not "inflammatory content."
If you want all shit that's "technically not illegal" to be okay, then make all shit that's "technically not illegal" fucking okay! Then I'll respect your lack of action against this toxic user. Because it's consistent, and I can get behind that principle.

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I think this is an irresponsible response, coming from staff. Tossing Wolfblade under the bus for his fantasy content, in an attempt to discredit his concern over disturbing journals about real children, is unprofessional.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I didn't really think of it as tossing him under the bus, but rather just pointing out the hypocrisy of the criticism. My experience with Wolfblade's darker content is a personal one, and not something I'm ashamed of (I found it quite enjoyable). If he doesn't like it, he's able to remove the comment from the journal.

We have the ability to make comments that are explicitly staff comments, that regular user cannot remove. This is not one of them.

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I disagree. The comment in question was an attempt to discredit Wolfblade. Regardless of the post types, you are a moderator, and that holds power. To step in and say somebody has no voice, and then use their content against them, is an abuse of your authority. Your enjoyment of said material doesn't bring levity to the situation, either. In fact, that makes it worse in my opinion. You enjoy his dark content, but you used it against him anyway.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I don't really agree with the idea that we can't be regular uses and hold opinions and discuss them, but I understand your point. I've removed the offending portion of my post, and left only the part that addresses Wolfblade's failure to investigate for himself fully.

StarChildebrite

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Of course you can have your own opinions and interactions, but they come with heavier consequences. I just think as site staff, somebody should have more consideration on how they present themselves, especially over critical concerns. But, in this case, it was less of an opinion, and more about moral one-upmanship (or, at least, that's how it came off to me).

That said, you have taken consideration to my view, and I appreciate that. I think your actions of amending your posts was a good start, but I do hope it was not simply a superficial change.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I like to think that I'm generally a person that can change course when presented a compelling argument.

Wolfblade's issue is that his agenda runs in counter to most of the things the site stands for.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

"My agenda" that has run counter to the site has always been nothing more than "please stop doing things and making decisions and selectively defending really fucked up shit that lend credibility to accusations against the site, its staff, - and by proxy all users and supporters of it - that this chunk of the fandom can't see the distinction between harmless fantasy and actual desires to do terrible things in reality."

I'm sorry for the frustrations caused by my failing to recognize that was counter to what the site stands for.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I'm sorry. I shouldn't ascribe you intentions that aren't there. There's certainly plenty of things we can discuss without me doing that.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

You're very forgiving of yourself repeatedly and frequently crossing that line.

If you'd just stay out of user verbal exchanges you wouldn't have to appear hypocritical in having a tighter limit to forgiveness of users who aren't official staff acting in official capacity.

You have this much struggle dealing with me verbally attacking >the site< in general without you crossing a line and having to apologize how many times in just two days? Yet the extremely insulting, declarative, and deeply personal assaults Roarey has endured for fucking YEARS, and you think slapping down a "final warning" on him for responding with not-nice language to people actively trying to shut down an avenue through which he is attempting to generate income for himself is called for.

People saw he was being supported by a business partnership and they tried to take away a source of income from him.

He used ugly language to describe people who by that action ARE disgustingly ugly human beings.

And the site says "final warning" to him.

I really deeply somewhere in my mind still think it is POSSIBLE for something of the human being in you to MAYBE begin to conceive how fucking fucked up that is. This isn't "but da roolz."

This is someone who has been targeted by HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE for YEARS who want nothing less than his complete denial of any right to exist or interact or speak or even make a living for himself - and he cusses at them.

FUCK, dude.

Your position as an admin, if you think "but mean words" is something more intolerable and egregious and must-be-put-to-an-end than the absolute evil inhuman fuckery you have WATCHED and LET wash over this guy - and you see HIM as the problem.... There has to be something in you that can step back, look at the broad picture, and think "holy fuck, that's fucked up."

You're taking the position of someone who would watch neighborhood children ruthlessly kick and beat and torment a dog trapped in its own yard for years - sure, the dog barks, it scares the kids, the kids don't like that - but they FUCK with it at every chance until some point when the kids enter the dog's yard and it bites the nasty vicious little shits that have been tormenting it -

And you think putting the dog down is the right thing to do.

Roarey's not the fucking problem here. If you think his art and opinions VALIDLY provoked all the shit that's been poured on him by th most fucking nasty and venomous people I have ever seen - THAT is why I accuse you of bias against him because of his opinions. Because THAT IS bias based on his opinions.

Pick any person who expresses nothing you find objectionable - and imagine they get the same treatment Roarey gets, from people who think differently than you do and they DO find that person's expressions objectionable.

You'd watch all that and smack the person who is just biting back at an endless fucking mob assault at them for years?

If no, then I am right in that your handling of him IS because you agree with his attackers as being valid to hate him for his views. What the fuck kind of person punishes the bullied kid when he punches back? Someone who thinks the bullied kid DID have it coming because the bullies have a point with whatever they think justifies their bullying.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I think it's telling that we've shifted to this now. If you hadn't found the posts above, would the journal just have somehow have been about Roarey, again?

I'm going to be honest, I don't appreciate the characterization that we've somehow facilitated or allowed ANY of the abuse of Roarey. We have been extremely accommodating of behavior, extending significant warnings when we felt he stepped out of line. We've also stressed that if he reports users abusing him, we will take action against them.

HE WILL NOT DO THIS.

If he refuses to work within the system that we have laid down, then he cannot decry the same-said system when it comes down on him. We have given him EVERY opportunity to change and work within that framework. I have extended olive branch after olive branch. I proactively, without report, removed defamatory comments related to this incident.

I understand that Roarey has had a tough time. But Roarey does not believe in the site's authority at all if it inconveniences him. He will not be told how to express or conduct himself. He privately said as much today when he reached out to me. There is zero hope of reconciliation when you won't even entertain the idea that you're wrong, much less atone for it somehow. I think both the site and individual staff members are willing to make changes and alter their views. It's Roarey who is in fact completely unwilling to compromise. You think he shouldn't have to. We do.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I want to also note that from a staff and Inkbunny perspective, I don't care at all about the abuse that Roarey suffers elsewhere. Personally, I empathize, because I know what it's like to have the internet gang up on you. But people harassing Roarey on Twitter, Telegram, Discord, or elsewhere on the internet is absolutely none of our business. I think we made absurdly clear last time that things that happen off Inkbunny are not within our purview.

At the same time, those things don't weigh as a factor if Roarey chooses to violate the rules and guidelines he's received. And if Roarey receives abuse on Inkbunny, we act on it the same way that we would abuse against any other user. We can only do that if we know it's occurring, obviously, but we try our best.

Don't paint him as some kind of a victim hedged into a corner. We've given him plenty of avenues to pursue that curb harassment. If you choose not to utilize the tools provided, and instead rely on outrage to protect you from consequences, what are you?

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

You don't get it.

He doesn't need you to spank people for him. That's not the requisite end.

Someone wants to talk some shit - he can talk shit back. And that's it. That's all it is. There's NOTHING FOR YOU TO DO. There's no NEED for you to DO ANYTHING.

To say the justification for punishing him is because he doesn't call on you to punish other people FOR him when he does not need them to be spanked by admins for just throwing nasty words - he can handle himself.

You have the mindset of a child if you cannot comprehend a grown man responding to words with his own words - and that's that. He gets word-slapped, he word-slaps back. People give him shit somewhere, he slings WORDS.

There's NO CRIME FOR YOU TO BE NEEDED.

Again, you can't have it explained to you because you'd see it plain as day if you had the capacity.

"Someone on the site says mean words to someone somewhere and we can't have that!" - it's not POSSIBLE to enforce that evenly, EVER, anywhere. So it will only ever at all be enforced when someone is getting targeted enough where they come to your attention.

If someone points you and says "get him" and you just do it because you can't understand how and why there's no reason for you to need to do that - you're just a gun.

That's what it means for a staff to be weaponized by their own rules. It means the rules - or in this case, the interpretations of them - are flawed.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I had an interesting discussion with another user about this idea. It hasn't ended yet, and I'm waiting for them to provide some more information on their ideas.

That said, I don't think they'll come up with a realistic scenario where staff on this site can be weaponized via report. That's certainly not what happened here.

I can see that being an issue on other sites both where the interactions aren't clearly delineated, or where there's a huge amount of un-collated data. Not the case here.

I keep thinking you're all envisioning a scenario where Roarey goes off on a user somewhere, and that user reports him, but in reality, you would have to imagine that the response would immediately follow the provocation, wouldn't you think? If Roarey just randomly goes into a submission or journal and starts attacking a user because of behavior offsite, that would be weird, and also unacceptable.

So if you really want to follow this thread to it's conclusion, draw a picture for me as to how you think staff could be weaponized in the context of Inkbunny. If you're able to do so in a convincing manner, I'd love to hear it.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Dude, what the fuck drawing can I possibly make for you when you don't see it when staring right at the fucking prime example of it already being the case.

I draw a circle. Inside that circle is what your eyes are looking at. Outside that circle is everything you are just unaware of.

Outside of that circle, COUNTLESS people say COUNTLESS mean words at COUNTLESS other people. Inside that circle, someone says a mean word and you go NO! BAD! and bap them.

That person is being held to a rule that CAN ONLY EVER be held to people whom your attention has been directed at.

Outside that circle, someone says mean words and someone else wants them bapped for it. A whole bunch of them gather together and manage to grab the circle and move it so it is now over where the target they want bapped happens to be.

Now that you are looking, they kick him so he makes mean words at them. You Bap the three that kick him, then you bap him for mean-wordsing. Three DIFFERENT people come and kick him - you bap them, and bap him again.

Process repeats where hundreds of people kicking him everywhere and always, and whenever you happen to SEE one or two of them kicking him within the circle - you bap each of them once for their one kick, and then bap him yet again for his mean words that are getting meaner because there's not JUST all this kicking from all directions, but ALSO you bapping him for simply responding in kind to an endless parade of people who are just out to fucking hate on him in the most personal and accusatory ways possible.

You ultimately start to get tired of bapping this one guy who has accumulated quite a large number of baps - meanwhile you look at the "other side" and instead of seeing all their baps together, or considering the countless provocational kicks and jabs that happened outside your very limited circle - you only see one or two baps on any one of these MANY people.

Compared to his PILE of baps, well, gosh golly, obviously HE is the one who cannot learn because all the people kicking him tag out to the next person in line after only being bapped once or twice.

If he went to someone else's pages and meanwordsed at them - THAT is different than him being on his own pages here and meanwordsing where absolutely anyone has the option to leave, and block him, and boom, no need for any action at all.

OR, they can complain to you, move your tiny circle of possible awareness to include him - and now you have been weaponized by your flawed and faulty notion that the rule needs you to words-police him on HIS pages.

Instead of tell the people who don't like his words to just not go there.

IMAGINE, IF, when the VERY FIRST EVER Roarey problem you had ever heard - your response was "block a user you don't want to receive comments from, avoid the pages of users who produce content you don't want to see - use our filter system to assist that." and that was that.

How much of the headache you blame on Roarey would YOU and the rest of the staff have been spared entirely if you just told people "don't go to the page of someone who talks in a way you don't want to see. Report them if they do this outside of their pages, or if they do something that actually violates rules."

Almost all of it.

You'd be annoyed by people who keep going to someone's page and then bitching about them and wanting you to smack someone for their word choice on their own page. But even THAT would have ended immeasurably faster if it became known to all those that their bitching would not SUCCEED IN THE PURPOSE AND INTENT of getting you to go bap Roarey.

Your interpretation of the policy is what MAKES it a weaponizable point of control bad actors have to use staff to pile on in their attack on him. Your doing as commanded by them VALIDATES the tactic, which keeps them doing it, until their ultimate goal of the staff being so sick of it all that they ban Roarey is accomplished.

This is common mob harassment technique even irl.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

So do you believe that if someone links me a comment in a ticket, I'm incapable of taking the time to read the context surrounding it? Do you think that we look at just the thing looked to us with zero context? We're not Twitter.

I can review an entire user profile and all of the data tied to it in minutes. I can dig through all of it's interactions with other users in a pretty short period of time. Generally, we don't just look at SINGLE DATABASE ENTRY. We take a look at the whole.

Maybe the problem is the utter lack of understanding for how moderation actually works, and the effort we put into it.

If the circle in your example encompasses all of Inkbunny, then nothing outside the circle matters. If Roarey responds to behavior off-site, on Inkbunny, then it's Roarey's fault for bringing his problem here.

What you're describing here isn't what has ever happened to Roarey, and to the best of my knowledge, it's never happened on Inkbunny. Moreover, we almost never ban for a first offense, so if the user felt like they were subject to this, they could certainly reach out to us in response and clarify.

I don't think that the problem you describe of weaponizing staff is a problem that exists here, both because of how small our staff is, how hands off we are on discussion, how much information we have access to, and our policy to not factor off-site items into our administration.

I just don't get the fascination with this. Like I said, we're not Twitter. We're not paid employees sitting in a cube with ticket quotas. We're interested parties running a not-for-profit project.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Let's take this thought exercise a step further. Let's examine my process if someone were to report a comment on this journal.

First, I'm going to look at the comment, and determine the severity of the issue. Response depends on content and the history of the user involved. Review the notes we maintain on user accounts regarding warnings and notices. If the comment warrants immediate deletion, I may remove it then and there.

From there, I'll examine the context around the comment. The parent journal, all of the other comments in the journal, and if it seems necessary, other journals by the user. I may also pull up the comment lists for specific users to see how all of this interacts.

If there were other comments involved, I may remove them immediately as well, depending on their content.

After that, it's documenting the interaction in the aforementioned note area, updating any relevant ticket, and issuing notices to the involved users. I generally tell users that are warned to reach out if they have questions.

Where should that process get short-circuited that results in us being weaponized?

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Sorry, I didn't address part of your post. The part that seems to indicate you believe some grand conspiracy could come together and rotate workers agitating to get Roarey banned.

First off, I find this notion absolutely laughable. That's a terrifying amount of power to ascribe to some shadowy cabal, but then to imagine it's focus is to get Roarey banned?

Second, even on the premise that this happens, how is absolutely none of the blame on Roarey? He lacks the self-control to not rise to bait when baited? Forever?

There's no indication that what you're suggesting happened here. It's some shadowy threat. I have a hard time believing that most users on Inkbunny have the desire to coordinate in the manner you describe, much less jeopardize their own accounts for the ploy.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Let me ease that part then, that was not an assertion of a literal organized and planned effect, it's simply what happens. When a massless shapeless faceless mob is united and defined by a common hate, they don't have to be organized and plan to do this, this is just a form of emergent behavior that naturally come from such a state.

A whole heap of people who just all hate the same thing see someone being targeted by others of their thinking pile on and join in, and the nature of time and reality is such that it doesn't all happen at once. It just persists as someone new to the hate-train catches wind or hops aboard or otherwise organically follows the same process and pattern those before them did - and you end up with a stream of it over time as older ones get bored and move to the new thing and newer ones show up and decide to get get a kick in on the guy they were told about being so terrible.

No assertion of literal managed and planned effort was intended - it is simply a result of patterns of human behavior repeating.

Please re-read with the clarified intent and see if there's less laughter impeding your vision.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

I think generally we'd take the context of the incident into consideration. Because we keep notes that refer to the previous incidents, we can look at that to guide future actions. I do not think there is in fact a stream of harassment and abuse being hurled at Roarey on Inkbunny. I think there are plenty of people that disagree with him, but we act against those that become out of line.

I again, don't think that's what's happening here. Moreover, Roarey's response to any sort of guideline is YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER ME, I WILL NOT COMPLY. To which we can only gently nod our heads, and move on. Because no matter how much you plug your ears and deny reality, it's not going to make the fact that you don't run the site change.

by such a time i will no longer care, my volatility is always shortlived. im not interested in being nice to rotten people and im too old to have anyone tell me how i ought to use my language, i will say whatever i deem fit, as the only judge of what i should or shouldnt say. this isn't some kindergarten where teacher is presiding over children who need to learn what boundaries are, these are adults fucking with other adults lives and all they get from me for it are harsh words. i wont have some stuck up little cunts go around not only screwing with my reputation, making out im all kinds of evil, but also screwing with people who are even slightly associated with me. they are weak, underhanded, despicable little cretins who do what i never would. i am honest, up-front and no-bullshit, i dont filter myself so i can keep up the manufactured pretence that i am above it all, imperturbable and lacking all but the best of intentions. the facade of politeness and "decency" people try to maintain while saying and implying heinous shit is not laudable, it is contemptable to anyone with a shred of integrity. i wont abide by rules that enable snakes and i dont have any respect for emotionally manipulative tactics. most of all i wont tolerate being patronised. nothing in the whole situation pissed me off more than the private conversation from the official inkbunny account and the way whomever was typing behind it spoke to me. warned me for years indeed, yes you have, and it is irrelevant to me. I'm not interested in adhering to rules that enable the people who have tried to ruin me for years and all but succeeded. not interested in taking on board the patronising orders to toe some line that is selectively applied. i wont be spoken to, a ** year-old man who's been through actual SHIT in real life, like im some naughty kid because i have the temerity to be unkind to the worst people in the fandom who have torn it and all the civility in it to pieces with cancel culture. You picked their side, chose your path, so own it or discard it. ive certainly chosen mine long ago and i wont budge from it, ever.

This is the rambling block of text that I received earlier today. You may have already seen it. It seems he's shared it around some.

I read it, and then tried to read it again, just to ensure I understood. Then I told him that I think he's probably better off stepping away from Inkbunny anyway. It sounds like the internet in general causes Roarey a lot of unnecessary stress. I firmly believe that some people shouldn't delve too deeply into social media. I think he's one of them.

I wished him well. I wonder if by trying to peg him here, in this place, you aren't in fact doing him a disservice. Is he even happy here in general? He doesn't like how we run the site, and we've made clear that his behavior has to comply. He won't. Should we tailor the site around this one person's issues?

**I edited this to remove some personal information**

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I wasn't bothered by you mentioning kuma-kun, you did at least recognize it was never an actual secret. I've never actually tried to keep cub or gore or anything some fucking secret thing.

Because there's nothing wrong with total fiction that has zero bearing or indication of actual rl interests.

That user's journals ARE actually, legitimately, validly, a person expressing rl desires.

You don't understand that peoples' issues with "fantasy" are not simply whether or not someone WILL act them out. The hate comes from even the idea that anyone WANTS to.

If anything I ever drew of that darker stuff for you was something you would actually want to do in reality - but only refrain because of consequences - then let me state here, plainly, that is NOT my general default presumption when I am drawing make-believe fake-ass shit for people. If you DON'T actually have rl desires for that sort of thing in a real-world context - then congratulations, you SHOULD be able to see the distinction between what you refer to of my alt account's art, vs this guy saying 'yes, all this stuff is me expressing thoughts of rl human children - but I know there's consequences if I ever act on it.'

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I think that a discussion on desire, attraction, and consequence is something that's wayyyyyyy too long and complex to be had here.

I'll concede that there are people bothered by thought-crime. I just won't entertain that crowd at all.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

My point is that in ignoring the VALID portion of LEGITIMATE concern that even pro-cub, pro-snuff, pro-ACTUAL-fantasy-so-long-as-you-DON'T-secretly-want-to-actually-fuck-dead-babies will also have -

MAKES this site the chief source of apparent VALIDATION of people who want to tar everyone with any taboo fiction fetish with that brush.

THAT, again, again, again, was my one big fat point at every fucking point the site just decided "Wolfblade's just some crazy psycho who has to have it his way all the time."

It's not "I want it my way."

It's "this makes everything worse for everyone and I want people to NOT be subjected to MORE and WORSE hatred and ostracizing and scorn and rejection and exile and alienation and that's what these bad decisions WILL CAUSE."

"Don't smear ice cream all over the floor" isn't just "oh, he just has to have everything his way."

It's "That's how you get ants, and nobody wants ants."

The turn to the public has always been "Hey, in case I'm wrong - anybody think smearing ice cream on the floor is a good idea?"

To which the majority response of "What? No, are you stupid, that's how you get ants" SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FUCKING CLUE that I just, simply, plainly, as someone who was wanting what was best for an entire fucking community that was important to me - just had a damn valid point.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I concede above that you had a point. I will reiterate for you, that you were right here.

However, again, you never took any steps before you polled the room. You never did anything yourself. Just hopped on the third party cause of someone because it was convenient, without all the facts and information in hand.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Facts and information at hand - for you -

When I was a friend and supporter and in nothing but good standing with this site and its staff - I was never once heeded when I did anything short of this, when it was THIS specific category of "you guys really don't see how your decision here validates the worst accusations against everyone associated with this site?"

It's absurd to suggest that as far from favor as I have fallen - and as many reports you ALREADY HAD about this user - that anything would have worked other than this, the one and only method that has EVER worked.

And seems to remain as such.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

As many reports as we had on this users? We had two. Total. Ever. I handled them. I made a mistake in my handling of determining the contents acceptability under the ACP.

I'm not saying you have to change. I'm just saying you can't expect us to see you any differently than you present if you DONT change. You could in good faith accept that you were correct in this instance, and not keep beating it like there's more to accomplish.

If you're sincere, and care, then you have an interest to be positive. If you don't care, and your only intention it to tear the site down and get revenge for it having wronged you, then carry on.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Again, proving the point.

That you do not PERCEIVE the distinction between cartoon furry fiction bullshit drawings - and those journals, and why most people seeing them react the way people here react to them, INCLUDING people like myself who DO have fantasy/fiction of fucked up stuff -

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

That's the point. It is like being color-blind. We are pointing to a color that you seemingly lack the capacity to perceive. We point to two VERY different things, two completely different colors - you see one uniform grey.

That lack of perceiving the line between harmless fantasy that is ENTIRELY contained to the realm of make-believe and the mind and is in no way connected to or indicative of RL DESIRES - vs those journals where even in that post YOU think is exonerating, he still expresses explicitly that for him, these ARE absolutely RL pedophilic desires he's expressing.

"I play shooter games but have no desire to shoot anyone irl" is different from "I play shooter games BECAUSE I want to shoot people irl, but I know I'll get in trouble so I won't."

The latter is what those journals are, and what people who drive the hate mobs and cancel campaigns against ALL fiction they don't like THINK is the applicable reality of everyone engaging in the fiction. The former is what people who know the line and difference and DON'T defend crossing it are.

I could explain this until I am blue in the face, but there is a mental circuit needed to actually perceive the distinction I am delineating - and everyone who has it SEES IT at first fucking glance of those journals. Including people who DO have entirely-not-rl-desire fiction/fantasy interests.

If you see those journals as no different than drawings or stories - and you see that disclaimer as exonerating him at all - then you are color-blind to the specific distinction I am speaking of, and the problem everyone else who sees it is having here. You can't have "red" explained to you. Either you perceive it, or you lack that circuit. The fear of those who lack that circuit has always been what drives the people who hound and abuse the community of artists and writers that deal with these topics. IB being run by people who DO lack that circuit is why that shit has gotten so much worse everywhere because it validates that fear.

But sure, whatever, you're fine, that guy's fine, I and every single other person immediately repulsed by those journals are all just seeing something that isn't there, and Roarey using mean words in the context and common usage of his nation and culture is more of a problem. You aren't capable of perceiving otherwise.

No, I had not seen that journal that you think exonerates him.

I'll update the journal to include it.

Because that piece of evidence you think clears him only further proves the point you can't fucking perceive.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I think if you wanted genuine responses that I'd consider, you need that context at the start, not a day and a half later, after most people have seen your flawed initial version. You paint a narrow, focused picture for people, and give them no context, and then expect me to take the responses seriously?

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

What rational basis is there to assert that I should have expected to be heard at all? My first remarks in this, you were dismissing me. That was a preset known to both of us, so why pretend it might not have applied?

But okay.

Respond to what you think you see as the added context now, that was not immediately apparent from the very beginning.

Because I assure you, MOST people seeing and reacting to this - as was the case with all the previous situations of me wasting my energy trying desperately to be heard by people who were my friends, only to have to get the public to SHOW that they reacted the way I tried to explain they would - saw and understood all of this without even having to think about it.

The point is that if you need to have this pointed out - that's the problem.

People who don't need to have it spelled out for them see it at a glance.

That's the basis for all my big bitchfits the site never fucking comprehends.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

If we don't understand your desires, and the site isn't in-line with your expectations, you're free to not use it.

If you're trying to assert that people wouldn't have reacted differently if you'd included the journal disclaiming any intent to act, I don't know what to tell you. Anyone that gets worked up about thought-crime or pre-crime is not someone I'm interested in catering to, to begin with.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

*nods*

IB confirms to people who want to paint all taboo-fetish fiction-makers as not being able to see the difference, that at least the primary site for it has staff for whom that's true.

You don't care about proving people right, you can't see the damage you cause to those for whom those accusations DON'T apply.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

You're right about one thing. I don't care about the damage that occurs elsewhere. Elsewhere is not my god damn problem. People with grievances on Furaffinity, Twitter, or other platforms are not my problem. I don't care.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I try to live by the adage of not worrying about things that are outside my direct control. I can't control those things, only react to them. I can't control detractors, so for the most part, I simply ignore them.

illis2

3 years, 7 months ago

link

A lot of this lookin kinda sus, my dude.
Now I'm not going to gloss over this and think this is just some edgelord or radlib trying to start some sort of internet war but the content of these screenshots look to good to be true, the main problem that irks me is why you censored the name of the user if you intended on bringing awareness to the situation.
I mean seriously, why even censor this dude's name?
Drop the deets on us, call out the nigga, do fuckin somethin man.

I still think this site has some major problems with it's moderation, but what you're doing in this situation just seems like the kind of shit I'd expect on Twitter.
The one site people come here to get away from.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ illis2

I didn't take the screencaps or censor them, another user did. The staff hasn't argued their authenticity. They know the user and they don't claim these aren't real.

There are rules they could slap me with if I named the person, so I don't. Because the public having the name and bombing the user isn't the point or goal. Just showing them what their users think about this is the point. They can't perceive the problem, but they've shown in the past that they will act if enough people tell them they must.

It's not ideal for a staff to be that way. But that's what it is, here.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I like how you keep mentioning that we would slap you for name dropping the user. If that were the case, would I have not simply banned Roarey for doing exactly that in his journal? Would that not have been the simpler solution, if that were the case?

I think it'd be wrong of you to send your 12000 followers out to attack a guy for his harmless thoughts and fiction.We generally allow people to make call-outs so long as they remain civil and otherwise in compliance with site rules.

Wolfblade

3 years, 7 months ago

link

My mistake, then. I presumed that would be a REASONABLE administrative action - to reprimand or punish a user with a large following naming someone like this.

Are you telling me that I will not receive punitive consequence of any kind if I just say the user's name in this journal and/or future remarks on the subject?

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Generally speaking we allow call-outs as long as they aren't otherwise inflammatory or misleading. There's no rule regarding the scale of a users account as an addendum to that.

My personal feelings are that it would be distasteful, especially since your aim has been met, and many of the users journals have been removed as content violations. But hey, you're welcome to keep showing people what you're like.

If you think it's reasonable, then how long ago would you have banned RoareyRacoon, in our place, or Pierce?

CuriousFerret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

When did Pierce or Roarey ever try to name drop someone like that?

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

The journal that spawned this entire thing includes un-redacted screenshots showing all of the users involved.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xq92ru7golxfbec/g6fjtg.png?dl=0 This was the link Roarey provided.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Or here, for Roarey as well

https://inkbunny.net/j/396011-RoareyRaccoon-the-kircai-guy

CuriousFerret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I'm having trouble seeing the connection between these seprate issues and Wolf's concern about the journal he shared with names redacted.

The gravity of the accusation in Wolf's stated issue seems of more concern then the personal spining in the others.

Roarey was calling out an artist trying profit off his style not pursue legal actions or send a mob. A perfectly understandable position.

Pierce always disagreed with anyone censoring their art or hiding what they had drawn in the passed.

That's not the same as trying to ban someone from the site.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

You could make the argument that the journal about Kircai is more tame, but that falls flat on it's face when you look at the more recent incident posted, and the amount of people simply calling for Kupok to be banned. Roarey knows what he's doing when he posts.

As for Pierce, I've given him a significant amount of credit for not agitating as much over the last few years. Like I said, most of his are deleted journals that I can't link to a user.

CuriousFerret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

To be fair I haven't followed Roarey closely last few months.

I may have missed something recently, but I've never known him to try to run anyone out of the site or community.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I think it also helps to ensure that you read the updated additional link he included, where the user clearly states that there's no harm intended, and that all of those thoughts are fantasy.

CuriousFerret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

If staff has vetted this user, and is satisfied by his answers and actions then the liability for the site is at least known and accounted for.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

If someone deliberately sent users to harass someone, I think it'd be a different matter, but I don't believe, even in all this, that is Wolfblade's intention. I think he was asking if he'd get in trouble just for linking the account.

Personally, I hope Wolfblade doesn't post another journal, because I'd hate to have another long night. And frankly, I think most of his concerns have been addressed. I'm not sure what more he could want to gain at this point.

I think in general, the dramatic trio in question all dislike the current crop of 'cancel culture' to take their own efforts to avoid doing so.

CuriousFerret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I'm certain they all rather have someone with this potential issue handled by staff and not a mob.

Seems Wolf's reason for this journal was he didn't see staff intervening in a timely manner.

But its seems to be resolved to staff satisfaction at least.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

After a few of the replies here, I'm hopeful that's the case, and that Wolfblade is satisfied. We shall see. I want to believe that there's some sincerity in all this, and not just a kick to 'avenge' the 'injustice' against Roarey. There's been some heated exchange, but I also see some common ground.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Here's a similar behavior for Pierce:

https://inkbunny.net/j/385554-IBp-a-little-comic-that-a...

There's also a number of deleted items, which obviously I can't link to you, but I've noted over the years.

R3DRUNNER

3 years, 7 months ago

link

inkbunny mods making bad decisions? i am shocked

DeepPurpleVibrator

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Dear god... InkBunny mods, how COULD you?!
It's one thing to fantasize about fucking kid Max Goof or Timmy Turner, but this sick dude's fantasizing about actual god damned kids. IRL stuff is where mods should draw the line, but they fucked up big time, here. It's shit like that that makes people think cub, loli, and shota consumers are actual pedos. And this is coming from someone who personally doesn't like most of that stuff!

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ DeepPurpleVibrator

As Wolfblade has chosen not to update his journal, the content that pertains to real, human children has been removed.

DeepPurpleVibrator

3 years, 7 months ago

link

He actually DID say journals like these were often deleted after they were made public in journals. He made an update earlier in this very journal in fact.

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ DeepPurpleVibrator

Fair point. He just updated. Happy to see it.

DeepPurpleVibrator

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Might be just a suggestion, but I think this site could benefit from having a separate forum for talking with mods on site rules, reports, and bug reporting. It would declutter the comments section in journals and other areas of the site so the focus is more on the users while having a convenient unified place to talk about the site itself.

FurAffinity, iirc, has a forum, so why can't InkBunny?

Kadm

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ DeepPurpleVibrator

We have Support Tickets at the bottom of the page. That's the avenue for all of the things that you mention. Staff can see and respond to those tickets and provide feedback.

EvanSKVRL

3 years, 7 months ago

link

I have FOUR tickets open, one of which is from August 28, 2019, exactly one year ago today. Support Tickets are useless.

EvanSKVRL

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ EvanSKVRL

Correction, one is from August 7, 2019, over a year ago.

RiskItForTheBiscuit

3 years, 7 months ago

link

You don't answer these, and probably don't read them either.

AxleFurret

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Would be a real shame if something like, oh, I don't know... "4chan" got wind of this "proud pedo" guy.

TaylinSora

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

who would even humor stuff like this? like is there no limit on what people say or can any just say they have fantasies about the contexts stated in the very first picture alone, i don't care if it's "fantasy" or not, it's exceedingly fucked up, and straight up has nothing to do about furries or the like, this stuff shouldn't be tolerated at all, and if any one mod, admin or owner dare protect those journals, then I'll happily consider alternatives to this site rather than invest in a site that oversees insane folks like that. Those disgusting statements or claim it as a right for free speak, well i'm gonna say they've not a single right to it, American or no, scum like that deserves nothing less what he fantasizes about, i'm sorry but i agree that these folks need to be arrested and put in a psyche-ward, where they can be given the mental treatment and distancing from society they deserve.

RiskItForTheBiscuit

3 years, 7 months ago

link

It has been a recurrent thing for some months now, the staff simply doesn't seem to care about support tickets or anything else for that matter. There is no reply, no deleting of human NSFW art (which I don't care about, but that means they're not enforcing their TOS anymore) etc.

Bacent

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Personally only good thing about inkbunny is the fact they have a block user/submissions/tags system that blows FA's out of the water. But IB was made because certain fetishes were banned from FA, so some parts of it are a cesspool.

The only report they ever answered was back in 2016 for me, and I've only had two since then about potential rule breaking.

Darkality

3 years, 7 months ago

link

Imagine acting like you have the moral high ground to pedos when you draw cub porn lol

Weiss

3 years, 7 months ago

link

@ Darkality

Imagine not being able to distinguish between reality and fantasy

Darkality

3 years, 7 months ago

link