Inkbunny

I'm of the 'You own your own meat' camp. Like, if you want to get extensive cosmetic surgery, have at it. So long as people understand, 'This is like getting a full-body tattoo, and all the social negatives and that come with that'. It's never going to be a penis or a vagina. It'll never feel like one. But if you're okay with that, it's your body, your choice. The problem was never the surgery, IMO, it was people being lied to that it was 100% safe and well-understood. It was elective cosmetic surgery repackaged as a cure for mental illness.

I think a lot of the worst things the medical industry have done come down to taking a treatment that is good for a specific few, and overprescribing it to millions, because greed.

furrylvr

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Sooooo. I identify as male and female. Genderfluid.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ furrylvr

Good for you XP.

CareBear

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Apple was so brave to remove the headphone jack.

Draggy94123

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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This is full of truth. Just leave kids to be kids.

YogurtBun

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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kinda cringe you keep bringing this up ngl

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ YogurtBun

Yeah, ongoing crimes against humanity and culture shouldn't be talked about, wouldn't want to be accused of being cringe XP.

taurex

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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is not used as a word for personality... its used for mood, even more worthless.

OhgunBeastar

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Now this is a whole lot better than the last version.

Toshubi

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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I think this clip describes what this page is saying perfectly.
https://youtu.be/S2CY8p3DyaE?si=cWM68yPHqjPI_1v7

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Toshubi

XD ok...thats a really good deep fake XD

pinktigerz

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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I went through a period of time where i wanted to be a girl, enjoyed some typical girl toys as a child, didnt help much all 5 of my cousins my age were girls, my three clostest neighbors / friends my age were all girls too. As i girks older went through a phase shere i thought I'd be happier as a girl. Turns out it was just depression, as i began to realize i wouldnt be any happier. Still hate my body at times, but for the most part accepted it as part of who I am.

I find myself quite concerned that there are so called professionals that are pushing people that are depressed in to believing transitioning gender is some miraculous solve all. With the increasing number of trans suicide and the number of those detransitioning only increased my concern of health professionals seeing trans people as a means to make more money and pushing those who are not really trans into believing they are and having they go through surgeries ect that can never be completely undone.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Indeed, it's a corruption of medicine that is honestly unforgivable.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Regret for gender confirmation surgery is less than 1% (American Journal of Surgery, 2024) and the overwhelming cause of trans suicide is bigotry or their families disowning them for being trans.

So, you know, if you want to help stop the suicides, you can stop bagging on trans people. If you do actually want to help.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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No, it takes a great deal more than bigotry to make people kill themselves at such astronomically high rates. It's a consequence of how difficult it is to live with the condition itself. And no, we don't need to change all of society's conception of what sex and gender are because you can claim this will magically save lives. Sod all the young minds gender theory is ruining and meddling with though, eh, they don't matter. Pretending this is merely a matter of advocating that society doesn't abuse trans people is a lie, because I'd have absolutely no problems with all of this if that was the case.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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So all the gay people who killed themselves because being gay was untenable even just a few decades ago, I guess they just... don't exist, then? Complete amnesia on that?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

Suicide rate for gays has never been anywhere close to that of trans people. I didn't say nobody takes their life over bigotry. Your claim is not substantiated. And our societies don't treat trans people like it used to treat gays, it's very accepting in general these days.

LongTom

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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In Britain, homosexuality was actually illegal until the late 1960's. As far as I know, the same was never true of transgenderism. John Cleese in his autobiography "So, Anyway..." said he was very surprised when Graham Chapman came out as homosexual because he didn't follow the "gay" stereotype.

PacAttack57

2 weeks, 1 day ago

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I've personally seen half a dozen detransitioners get absolutely BLASTED for daring to regret going through with the surgery. It is a HELL of a lot more than 1%.

RoareyRaccoon

2 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ PacAttack57

Indeed, it's almost like there are people who care more about their beliefs being constantly affirmed than they do the suffering of others who have been actually harmed by those beliefs. And by harm I don't mean being offended XP.

AlexReynard

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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I don't think this is banging on trans people. It's banging on the medical industry that's exploiting them for money.

'You have to do the thing that makes the most profit for us or you'll die. This is 100% safe. Trust us. We'd never lie to you, not like we did when we vastly overprescribed opioids and killed about a hundred thousand people. This is different. Trust us.'

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

i whent threw a similar phase as a child! strongly felt like i would have been better if I was born a girl...but I realized it was Envy of the fact girls could like pretty things and be cute and seemed to have an easy time makeing friends! not Dysphoria. I never stoped feeling like a boy i just WANTED to be a girl, although thankfully breifly.

had I gone through the same thing today... I might be on a lot of drugs right now....wich would only serve to farther confuse me.

Im not opposed to people doing what thye feel they should to be happy in there own skin but it should not involve giveing the same drugs we used to chemically castrate people to children...never mind the fact that the drugs while "technicly reversable" DO have a measurable permanent effect on the recipients body... it's allmost like doseing kids with puburty blockers and hormones while there in the single most influential part of there bodies physical development based on "feelings" might be a bad idea....maybe...

ragarth

3 weeks ago

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Got actual, *valid* evidence that trans suicide is becoming more prevalent? Because the research I've read shows that as gender approving therapy has become more common, the incidence of trans suicide has reduced. If you're going to claim that something is causing harm, have facts to back it up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
"Of the 23 studies that met the inclusion criteria, the majority indicated a reduction in suicidality following gender-affirming treatment... There is a need for continued research in suicidality outcomes following gender-affirming treatment that adequately controls for the presence of psychiatric comorbidity and treatment, substance use, and other suicide risk-enhancing and reducing factors."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
"The studies have identified a number of risk factors for the high rates of suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons. The discrimination of the transgender persons in the society has prevented them from obtaining an education, job, and housing because of which they are living in slums or street and have to resort to begging and sex work;[10] this pitiful conditions have lead them to breakdown further and end their life in suicide..."

Just a little lazy looking to get those two. Seems to me like increased acceptance and care reduce suicide risk, while non-acceptance and descrimination increase suicide risk. Makes sense to me.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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Giant review was recently published regarding gender-affirming care that is so damning it resulted in the NHS of UK rolling back a host of things introduced by this ideological nonsense.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/fi...

Two of its many key findings:

While a considerable amount of research has been published in this field, systematic evidence reviews demonstrated the poor quality of the published studies, meaning there is not a reliable evidence base upon which to make clinical decisions, or for children and their families to make informed choices.

The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and social debate.

ragarth

3 weeks ago

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Edited 3 weeks ago by Owner

Neither of your cited findings indicate that trans suicides are becoming more prevalent. Are you telling me that in a 388 page omnibus report on the topic you were unable to find anything supporting your claim?

If you're wrong about suicide prevalence when you stated it so factually earlier, then why should anything else you breathlessly stated as true be taken worth more than a grain of salt?

edit: Oh woops. You're not the person I responded to. NM. Your post was just a non-sequitour.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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Nah I was responding to your assertion that gender-affirming care was useful.

ragarth

3 weeks ago

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Edited 3 weeks ago by Owner

Read the report, don't just digest what people tell you about it.

1.65 The strengths and weaknesses of the
evidence base on the care of children and
young people are often misrepresented and
overstated, both in scientific publications and
social debate. Systematically reviewing and
evaluating the evidence has been fundamental
to the Review’s approach.
1.66 Hearing directly from the children and
young people at the heart of this Review, their
parents/carers and the clinicians working in
and around services trying to support them,
has provided valuable insight into the ways
in which services are currently delivered and
experienced. This has contributed immeasurably
to the Review’s understanding of the positive
experiences of living as a transgender or gender
diverse person, as well the uncertainties,
complexities and difficulties faced.

And if you balk at reading a 388 page report, then don't cite it since you don't care enough to understand it.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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That which you underlined has nothing to do with gender affirming care, which is a very specific form of counseling. You can drop the intellectual act if you're having trouble with simple stuff.

ragarth

3 weeks ago

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Edited 3 weeks ago by Owner

So your saying the second paragraph you quoted "strengths and weaknesses..." isn't pertinent to the discussion?? Because what I underlined was *an important part of what you cited*. Its not my fault you just trust a few bullet points instead of reading the citation in context.

Per the first thing you cited, I couldn't easily find it in the CASS report so its probably paraphrased. But given that you just negated the validity of your 2nd quote, why should I have faith in your first?

Look, these are real children with real lives. If you're just here to score points, get out of the discussion until you care more about the kids than the social war.

ragarth

3 weeks ago

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Look. I'm gonna finish this up with my opinion of you from this short little interaction:

You're the one that brought up the CASS report. I'm the one that actually clicked the button to download the full report instead of just copy/pasting some talking points. It seems to me that if you actually cared about the kids involved instead of just the culture war, you'd want **information** instead of **talking points.**

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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Calm down, I've downloaded the thing as well, when it was published XP. The only reason I care about this issue at all is the kids, not just those who report issues with dysphoria but all the healthy children exposed to outright lies about gender, getting confused about it, being encouraged by adults that it's real, then going to a fucking clinician who affirms it. It's not like all this new rhetoric is the birth of treatment and counseling for trans people; there used to be more steps of protection involved before drugs and surgery was ever involved. Honestly you're incredibly stuck-up and your assumptions are dead wrong.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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Edited 3 weeks ago by Owner

Incidentally, my quotes were from the summary of key findings, not the document itself. I didn't expect you to read the full report and you certainly haven't, unless you read like fuckin' Johnny 5 from Short Circuit. Unless you think the summarized key findings of the report are lies about the reports' contents, shut up.

AlexReynard

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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Edited 2 days, 7 hrs ago by Owner

Here's a California study showing that suicidality does not decrease with surgery, and can increase.

https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/JU.000000000000...

I doubt it's anything wrong with the patients. But rather, regret after they realized they were sold something that didn't make their lives better as was promised. We used to understand that plastic surgery can't cure mental illness. But I guess the allure of two billion dollars in annual profit from gender surgery was worth the medical industry telling some fibs.

ragarth

1 day, 20 hrs ago

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This is comparing people within 2 years of surgery to those 2 years after surgery and in that context makes sense. It is not comparing those who cannot get surgery to those who could get surgery. Therefore, not applicable to the discussion at hand--People planning on getting surgery are not comparable to people who cannot get surgery.

AlexReynard

1 day, 14 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 14 hrs ago by Owner

Your focus is too narrow.

Why do people still want this surgery if it does not decrease the desire to kill yourself?

Why are medical experts allowed to get away with lying to the public, saying that a treatment gives a certain result, when they know it actually gives the opposite result?

Let's imagine there's a cough syrup that advertises itself as stopping coughing. In reality, it does not stop your cough, and in many people, makes them cough more. If this is proven, then why would people want to keep taking that brand of cough syrup? Why would people keep defending the company?

EDIT: I understand that those customers really want to stop coughing. There's nothing wrong with them wanting that. It's perfectly understandable. But this company is not delivering that result. It can't. The treatment it's giving cannot give the result it promises. So that leaves their customers with two options: 1) Keep taking it anyway, or 2) accept that this treatment they want does not work, and look for better options elsewhere.

ragarth

1 day, 12 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 12 hrs ago by Owner

"Why do people still want this surgery if it does not decrease the desire to kill yourself?"

There are three cohorts. 1) People who can't get gender affirming care, 2) people waiting for it, 3) people who got it. You are conflating groups 1 and 2 and claiming that the results comparing 2 and 3 are the same as comparing 1 and 3.

Do people who are not able to get gender affirming care (1) exhibit more suicidality than people who have gotten gender affirming care (3)? The results of your study do not answer this question, and its the question being asked.

AlexReynard

1 day ago

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So, your answer is to not even try to give an answer to my question. That's aggravatingly typical.

People who reject scientific evidence by saying, 'This does not fit the 100% precise topic being discussed, therefore it is irrelevant,' are behaving like creationists. It's a useless tactic.

And it's ignorant. The world is bigger than any single topic or any single study. I've been in too many discussions where someone tries to act as if, if there is no 100% perfect smoking gun proof against their claim, then their claim is rock solid. That's not how reality, or debate, or adulthood works.

And on this particular topic, the lack of any good data backing up any claims in favor of the gender-affirming model has been gleefully used by its proponents. Greatly expand gender medicine to people who do not need it for profit, then when people try to argue against it, they say, 'Cite a study that proves what we're doing is wrong.' No. Absence of evidence is not evidence.

"Do people who are not able to get gender affirming care (1) exhibit more suicidality than people who have gotten gender affirming care (3)? The results of your study do not answer this question"

They answer a different, more important question. If you won't recognize that, it's not my problem.

"and its the question being asked."

No one has to answer your question until you answer ours. The burden of proof is on your side. We can get into the details of gender-affirming care after your side delivers any good evidence that it shouldn't all be thrown into the same garbage pile as homeopathy and lobotomies.

ShySketch

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Art that gets you cancelled is always going to be very important, because it is one of the most powerful forms of artwork. It is artwork with real life consequences beyond helping your friends coom (which is also important). I also believe that it provides the necessary "gallery spice" to keep the lewd from becoming sickly sweet, balancing the flavor profile.

I think it's important to point out that the conversation surrounding the "gender issue" would be completely different if there was actually some substance that could literally and truly change you into the opposite sex or even into your actual fursona. Instead, we are talking about plastic surgery, steroids, and new and experimental synthetic estrogen. Steroids at least have a longstanding medical history of use and we know what they do and what the risks are. Synthetic estrogen on the other hand is a new thing, and I've read on the NIH that it can cause bone-loss over time and lead to debilitating spinal issues in later life. The fact that these issues are not even allowed to be discussed without being banned on all mainstream social media is what exposes what the "gender issue" really is. It is the protection of the worldwide medical industry monopoly, at the expense of the patients, and even people who should not be "patients" at all, but are roped into it due to the environment they are raised in. Seemingly, the result of the treatment leads mostly to a life-long customer who will die or become ill if they stop taking the drugs. Even if they choose to detransistion, they will still need to take supplementary hormones if their body can no longer make hormones. The companies doing this are the same companies that had us on lockdown for 2 years for a disease that we would surely die of if we did not take every injection, and so dangerous that even I had to be fired to keep my co-workers safe (after having worked with them in-person for the entire 2-year lockdown).

Mods33

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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I love how no one is trying to disagree with this. The difficult, not pretty truth. Maybe if this was the main thing people knew, people would scare themselves away from such an inconvenient identity. Not so magical and quirky after all?

ShySketch

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ Mods33

I don't think most people are doing it for attention. I believe it is primarily based in one of the major furry fetishes, called "transformation." TF is "taboo" in the sense that the "mainstream" media monopoly pretends it doesn't exist while simultaneously putting it in most of their toonz. I initially got into the furry fandom because of its overlap with the TF artwork. Almost all of the people I've known who transitioned were also into TF. I haven't seen this ever talked about anywhere, which is also odd. If they were given the option to be TF'd into their fursona, they would absolutely take that option over drugs and surgery and humanity.

I also think it's very important to point out that the primary result of the "gender transition" is the resulting sterilization of the patient. While eugenics itself has become taboo to speak about, it's only become more popular and legalized in the medical context. Eugenics has to operate through the proxies of "abortion" and "trans rights" to be considered politically palatable. In recent history, government run psychiatric hospitals were primarily places to torture and sterilize political dissidents both in the west and in the USSR. It was not until the public started to catch on that almost all of those places were shut down. Lobotomies were performed up through the 1960s, a lobotomy is the removal of the frontal cortex of the brain of a living person, which seems to remove most of their consciousness or soul.

AlexReynard

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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re: your point about the lockdowns

Oh, it's much worse than that. We're expected to believe the medical industry would never overprescribe unnecessary gender treatments and surgeries. That would hurt people! Just like, they'd never overprescribe opioid painkillers and cause an epidemic of overdoses that's killed about a hundred thousand people IIRC. Sure, they'd never put profit over ethics.

ShySketch

1 day, 15 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 15 hrs ago by Owner

It wasn't that opioids were overprescribed, it's that they were pushed with the disclaimer "we developed these from opioids to be non-addictive."

It wasn't until the FDA yanked the script-writing abilities of all those pop-up "pain clinics" (they were like vape shops) that everyone who had an oxycontin script realized that they were in the depths of something identical to heroin withdrawal, that seemed to stop with the use of heroin.

That sorta killed most of my family, and ruined the lives of the ones it didn't kill. The ones who survived have a daily visit to the methadone and suboxone clinics to this day, and the methadone and suboxone are made by the same company that made the oxycontin even now. There's other things too, indirectly, but still horrible and only due to those pain clinics and the oxy script pushers in the early 2000s.

------------------

The gender thing is different. It borrows the "methadone clinic model" from their opioid "disasters" (successes). Their goal is to make "lifelong patients" who will die or suffer extreme side effects if their prescriptions are cut off. Everything else is just gloss and bullshit. I always say that if it were actually possible to change someone's sex completely, then no one would be having any issues with anyone doing that. The problem is that the "medical industry" is lying, telling vulnerable people that they can actually do that. It isn't until after it happens, and the person is reliant on the drugs for the rest of their life, that they learn that they had been lied to. I don't have any major issues with plastic surgery, but they cant be allowed to call it something that it isn't, especially not with such lasting ramifications.

AlexReynard

1 day, 14 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 14 hrs ago by Owner

[applause] Fantastic fucking comment. Excellent clarifications. I hadn't know the specifics of the oxy crisis, so thanks very much for giving me a fast class in it.

I happen to take Adderall for my ADHD. I lucked out in getting a good doctor, I told him I only needed a bit of help, not anything overwhelming, and he prescribed a very low dose, taken as needed. And it helps. Never two in a day; never two days in a row. Ideally, four days apart or longer. I want the lowest chance of acclimation or addiction possible. But when I began taking this, a friend of mine searched and found warnings from official medical experts saying that it was dangerous to take Adderall as needed. That it'd cause bad mood swings three days after the dose. Well, I marked every time I took it on a calendar, monitored it for two months, and that never happened. I am absolutely aware that this is a sample size of one, so it proves nothing about anyone else but me. So I'm not calling it proof. But I would not be surprised if I later found out that this warning was a lie, or vastly exaggerated, in place primarily to make sure more people would become addicted. It's all about the medical industry's level of trust that, I don't think it's tinfoil-hat-thinking to assume first that they are lying as part of their 'lifelong customer' strategy, than to think they are telling the truth.

ShySketch

1 day, 14 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 14 hrs ago by Owner

Amphetamine is almost 150 years old.  I also appreciate that it's now being made in the USA and that the artificial monopoly giving the manufacturing to israel has ended.  It felt like they were using that "shortage" in an attempt to cripple the USA's industrial capabilities.  That stuff is the cause of the industrial revolution, it is industry.  I honestly believe that it should be sold over the counter, it's disturbing that they are starting to "crack down" on it as though it were dangerous.  It should certainly be 18+, but it should not require a script.  It's practically necessary in some fields, so putting it behind a wall of prescription is a way for them to control who can and cannot be competitive.

Opioids are dangerous because they recruit protein beta-arrestin, which causes respiratory depression in the user (this is what causes fatal opioid overdoses, they stop breathing which is "respiratory depression").  Amphetamines don't do that, they can even prevent an opioid overdose temporarily by stimulating breathing (this is why mixing stimulants with opioids is so dangerous), but obviously it's better to use naloxone, which directly targets and blocks the opioid receptor responsible for respiratory depression directly.

Chemistry and Pharmacology and Neurochemistry is a lot like how people talk about guns.  There are people who know what they are talking about, and there are people who don't but who watch movies and TV shows and think that they know everything.  The problem is the idiots outnumber the people who know the truth, and the idiots are organized through the movies and tv show fandoms.  The result is a clusterfuck, where logic and reason are completely devoid from action, which causes a rippling effect through everything from culture to law.

AlexReynard

1 day, 1 hr ago

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I do not know many specifics of drugs, but I know enough about general stuff to know that last paragraph of yours should be engraved and framed. :)

ShySketch

15 hrs, 54 mins ago

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You should always know by which mechanism of action the substance you are ingesting works, regardless of whether or not a doctor told you to take it, you need to know how it works.  Some doctors do not even know.
Imagine a doctor telling a patient to take adderall twice a day... "once when you wake up in the morning, and once before bed." (this quote is non-fiction)
It's a stimulant.  One of its uses is to prevent people with narcolepsy from fainting (falling asleep).  The US military used it for "wakefulness" until 2017, when it was replaced with Modafinil.  Obviously, it's not going to help anyone fall asleep, it's going to do the complete opposite.  It's also important to know the side effects, for example bruxism (jaw clenching/grinding teeth) which seems to be mitigated by taking chelated magnesium.

In another example, SSRIs were actually developed by identifying that the serotonin receptor 5-HT2a is responsible for many of the hallucinations caused by LSD and other psychedelics.  SSRIs ("selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor") target that receptor and block the re-uptake of serotonin there.  They don't actually "know" that this has anything to do with depression, it's just that LSD had a sort of stimulant effect that they are trying to harness for use as an atypical stimulant classified as an "antidepressant."  Due to the way SSRIs work, they actually block the action of LSD and other psychedelics if someone were to take both at the same time.  This is practically the "cutting edge" of pharmaceudical medical science, people think it's wayyy more advanced and complicated than it is.

I mean, I can read a medical journal like the NIH (which was controlled by Fauchi, might I add) platform.  That's where the doctor's (are supposed to) be getting their information, and I read a lot more than just the abstract.  I do this for everything I take, regardless of whether it is a prescription or just an OTC medicine or even a supplement.  It's just good to know as much as possible when it comes to health supplements and medications, because they can be dangerous and harmful as much as they can be beneficial.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

So you're telling me that if a young cis boy developed gigantomastia– growing noticeably large breasts outside of normal weight gain, something that absolutely happens with regularity– you would not let him get a mastectomy? You'd just, force him to walk around school with breasts, expecting him to deal with the bullying that entails? It might not affect his health, but that seems pretty cruel to me.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Not really, no XP. That would be a surgery for non-ideological reasons XP. Don't quite know where you pulled that from, given what the image says.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Well wait, hold on now, what happened?? You said, and I quote,
"interfering with the bodies, identities and development of children, to satisfy ideological beliefs, is unjustifiable."
Who are you to say that those breasts aren't natural? They grew on his body naturally, after all. Cutting them out would be an optional surgery, something with potentially dangerous consequences, and he's only getting it to confirm his gender to others.
Seems pretty ideological to me???

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

You believe fat-related man-tits are unwanted because they contradict a gender norm? It's because they're hideous and embarrassing, not because of some psychobabble originating from a university. It doesn't involve medication that will sterilise him, the removal of his genitalia or secondary sex characteristics, or cosmetics meant to /change/ the appearance of his sex. Getting gigantomastia is something that happens to females, not males, the term you're looking for is gynaecomastia. I hope you don't mean to suggest that the development of this health condition actually makes a boy look female XP. Nice try, though.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

"Hideous and embarrassing" why though??
When breasts are big on women we love them, so what's the problem?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Because a boy is not a woman XP. Your example to begin with was some imaginary guilt-trip involving me not allowing a boy to have gynaecomastia removed, which obviously means he wants it removed. So have we moved the goal-posts to a boy who likes them now? Yeah, that is exactly what you're doing and it's desperate XP.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

So the same exact breasts are beautiful on a woman and hideous on a man. They are the same exact objects with the same health risks, but on one sex they are worth being mutilated to remove. Yes? Right? And what do we call that? When you're a man, but you have features like a woman, and it makes you miserable. What is that called? Some kind of... oh I don't know... Dysphoria?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

They're not the exact same breasts at all, they don't look remotely like a woman's breasts, lol. So now we've moved again to something else, a documented mental illness, not a fat boy with man-tits. A boy. Not a man, a boy. Even girls don't have big breasts, women do. Obviously you're pissed at me but get over it, I don't care. I mean what point are you trying to even make, that all this ideological evil being pushed on kids is justified because 0.5% of people, most of whom age 16-24, experience dysphoria? That we should encourage kids to think they're the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body, that their own body is WRONG, if they aren't a walking gender stereotype? That gay people are actually trans? That kids can consent to procedures and drugs that change their entire life irreversibly, with a litany of absolutely horrible potential complications into the bargain, yet they can't be trusted to BUY A DRINK? No, I'm giving you enough credit to assume you aren't doing that, so drop the pedantic hypotheticals eh, it's boring.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

So wait, you do admit that dysphoria does exist... but telling anybody about trans people's existence is evil. How does that work?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

I haven't said any such thing. Telling anybody about trans people's existence is evil? Come up with something even more disingenuous, make it interesting.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Wait, so what is the "evil ideology" then? If you don't care if we tell kids about trans people, and what makes them the way they are, then what is this picture even about???

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Try to be aware of the difference between informing kids at an appropriate age (teens) that trans people exist and telling them that they can be any gender they want, even ones they've invented themselves, and making this tiny niche shit into the most visible thing on the planet. This stuff is being pushed on healthy kids like it's an awesome trend, with lefty parents keen to tell everybody their kid is actually trans, like celebrities with 3 kids and each one of them is either gay or non-binary or trans etc. It is being sold as a solution to misery and any identity issues. That's to say nothing of adults joining the cult, like sexual perverts pretending to be trans so they can invade the bathrooms and changing rooms of the opposite sex, or wear fetish gear in public. That's the ideology, wielded like a truncheon, for deeply unethical people to impose their will on society, and we're all expected to tolerate all of it because a tiny proportion of the population is being used as a shield for political power.

No, no to all of it. Everybody already knows trans people exist, it takes a moment to say. Letting people know about a simple fact does not come with all this political baggage, does it? Cars exist, look at them going down the road. There, that was easy, wasn't it. But you're not talking about letting people know trans people exist, which is why I say you are disingenuous, pretending something massively impacting society is a mere enunciation of a basic truth. Unreal.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

So it's okay to say to a child, "that's a trans person," but not to explain what a trans person is.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Done with you.

IBp

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

You're being pretty disingenuous every single time you have an "innocent question" and it's super obvious you've already made your conclusion so instead of fishing for gotchas you should just say what you think.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

I'm not the one who can't defend his position in the face of very basic questions, lol

IBp

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

They're irrelevant to what he's saying.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

I think you'll find that they're extremely relevant and he's contradicted himself several times when I tried to get him to explain himself! First Gender Confirmation is mutilation, then it isn't, then gender dysphoria is ideological, then it isn't, then trans ideology is evil, then it isn't, and now I'm supposed to believe that you can say someone is trans to a kid without explaining what that means. All caught up? Great!

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

No, you asserting that I'm claiming something I never claimed isn't me contradicting myself, it's YOU making nonsense claims, rofl. Bye.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

I have obliterated your every comment, that's why you need to keep asking something new. That's what defending a position looks like. As I've shown multiple times, all you do is shift the goalposts to ask something else. You don't even have a position that you're defending, so don't try that nonsense. Seriously twisted, manipulative, gaslighting behaviour.

Norithics

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Oh we're talking again! Great! So please answer my last question! How do you not explain what a trans person is when introducing the concept to a child?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

This is the last of your inane questions I'll answer. Explaining what a trans person is does not involve all the political baggage I previously described, which you never addressed, because you're being a gigantic arsehole. It takes a few minutes to describe what a trans person is, not turning society into clown world. There. Now fuck off.

Superelectric

3 weeks, 2 days ago

lockedlink

Hey, you mispelled "failed to answer" as "obliterated." Rather unusual spelling mistake but there's a first time for everything.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ Superelectric

I don't know why you are gleeful about being a blatant liar; it's something I'd feel very ashamed of, were I to do it. Very odd.

ShySketch

3 weeks, 1 day ago

lockedlink

That would create the potential for an entirely subsidized "medical industry" that would financially profit off a poisoned water supply. Heated plastics (water bottles left in the sun) leech estrogen analogs. Soybeans (which were used as food filler since the Chinese boycott on American soybeans as a filler protein) as well as peanuts also contain natural analogs to estrogen that function similar to estrogen when ingested.

I don't think we should make an industry around treating the symptoms instead of solving the problem, regarding your example.

TeaPartyRabbit

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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I'd say there are at least two more besides the male and female. Two other sex situations that exist at birth are both sexes, and neither sex.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Not true, since what you describe are not distinct sexes at all.Two gametes are required to form a fertilised zygote, so there are two sexes, each sex producing one of them. Anything else is a genetic aberration, they don't have anything unique to them that isn't found in either of the other two sexes.The second example is especially silly, since being neither sex means literally not being a sex.

TeaPartyRabbit

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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What I described are the possible outcomes at the time of birth, and all four situations occur with the two aberrations not being able to reproduce.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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They're not sexes.

IBp

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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I'd think those are more developmental issues than new sexes, considering they are possibilities only defined by having features of BOTH sexes, or NO sexes.
They're the outliers that prove the rule, because they're defined relatively around the two sexes.

TeaPartyRabbit

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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I agree the male and female are the intended two sexes. However, mathematically there are four. Not saying the both and neither are the desired outcome. The former two happen and do have to be addressed as part of the birth process. I wrote this in context to the exponential increase of genders.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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There are two. Mathematically two. You cannot add more sexes to the category of sex when they aren't sexes. That's like saying you have two apples and you add two oranges, so now you have 4 apples. It's nonsense.

LongTom

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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Earthworms and slugs are natural hermaphrodites.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ LongTom

We aren't earthworms or slugs.

LongTom

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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I don't know if genuinely hermaphroditic humans exist or not (though out of billions of people, it is certainly a possibility, however remote). And yes, there are natural "sex changes", such as a clownfish metamorphizing from male to female if one female ends up lost. But I guess people end up having genital surgery because nobody knows how to do the brain surgery.

TeaPartyRabbit

3 weeks ago

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The nonsense is saying apples and oranges have the same genetic line when my example does.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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I think you're having trouble understanding a simple metaphor. You can't count things that are not sexes as sexes. You can't count things that aren't apples as apples. Do you get it yet?

AlexReynard

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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The soft serve ice cream machine has two flavors put into it: chocolate and vanilla. Only two kinds of ice cream are put into the machine.

You can dispense chocolate. You can dispense vanilla.

You can also put both flavors onto one cone. Or you can eat an empty cone with no ice cream in it.

But only two flavors can come out of the machine.

TeaPartyRabbit

1 day, 21 hrs ago

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Yet folks will still eat it.

AlexReynard

1 day, 14 hrs ago

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Edited 1 day, 14 hrs ago by Owner

<blinks> Yes, but that's a non sequitur.

The point was to give a metaphor for why there are are only two sexes, and there can only be two sexes. A combination of the two is not a new sex, because it doesn't have a new, third, function. A lack of either sex isn't a new sex, because it has no function.

Sexual dimorphism exists so that species can procreate. It's being incredibly self-centered for individual humans to think, 'This natural process that is older than my species actually exists just so that I can feel good about how I identify myself.'

Simic

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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It seems impressive of satire art you made in 2017 and now. I honesty think public school should be ashamed of teaching 24 genders and psychotic traitism.
They should be a unicorn satire of saying Math is your friend and accountability too.
Unicorn teaching calculus and physics is what school should teach about instead of marxist nonsense.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Simic

Indeed, even sex education isn't needed, given that STD's and teenage pregnancy shot up after it was introduced into schools.

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Simic

god damn i hated math in school DX had to do it anyway wouldn't it be great if I could opt out of a facet of reality? Im told math is somehow racist now so maybe I was just born to early.

Simic

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Math in school is simple than taking a physics or engineering degree. It more detail oriented and abstract

LongTom

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ Simic

Math is an everyday necessity to survive in society. As for sex education, it is needed, if nothing else because some people aren't taught it at home.

Simic

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ LongTom

Accounting use algebra math level and useful in tracks of money stuff.

Superelectric

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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So it's been seven years and you're still pointlessly mad about trans people? Seems like a great use of such big chunk of your life, bro.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Superelectric

Not at all, I'm completely indifferent to trans people XP.

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner

@ Superelectric

I think the point behind the political cartoon is he is not so pointlessly mad about politicaly motivated gender ideology THEORY being presented to very young children in such a way as to imply that an endless rainbow of rotateing gender ideologies is both normal and something they should be concerned about...you know..before they even know the basic differences between male and female let alone the social construct of gender spectrums and norms.

there is no reason to normalize these concepts for CHILDREN DX I believe that's the point he is trying to make, except as an attempt to abuse adults positions of authority and the trusting natures of those same children to push through ideological beliefs.

Lets focus on basic education in public school and if Timmy wants to chop of his dick and become barbera later in life thats an entirely different matter.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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Bollocks shouldn't be normalized in general, it's bollocks, but when it's pushed onto children it's outright evil XP.

Munkers

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Personally, I just find the whole idea of trans stuff confusing to the point that I nominally withhold my opinion of it for lack of understanding the mentality involved in wanting to get gender reassignment surgery... Though by that same token, I don't think the surgery should be offered to people who can't legally have the same things being adjusted to ''conform'' to their thoughts on gender identity...

I say this having had a transgender mate, by the way xP Nothing against them, but the ideas involved just confuse me.

Put another way, I suppose if someone wants to change their bodies through expensive, irrevocable surgery, then they should be free to do so only after they become an adult (I am aware that the surgeries are easier and more successful at lower ages. I'm not against the pills and such that help prolong that, save for the various health issues they bring)

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Munkers

careful!

holding the belief that if your to young to fuck, gamble, die for your country, sign a legal contract or own land means your to young to make the exceedingly life altering choice to begin a gender transition is a horribly dangerous thing to believe in!

if your interested to pushing your specific social ideology on everybody else as young as possible at least.

Munkers

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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Eh, more that I don't think the full process (once it becomes irrevocable) should be available when you're just 10... Fifteen is still a bit early, but by then you have a better idea of who ''you'' are.

Eighteen (or 21 as it seems to be moving towards in the states tbh) is a bit of an arbitrary point to mark for this as ''old enough''

And yeah, it confuses the hell out of me just how/what I believe in on this too, so I can't really say I should push my own ''absolutes'' on anyone xP

KevinSnowpaw

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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@ Munkers

i agree for the most part but the goal post to be safe is 18 on all that other shit XD should be a minimum of that for this too IMO.

Munkers

3 weeks, 2 days ago

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I think fifteen should nominally be a fine point for most things, though not all...
Tobacco and harder stuff I'm fine with being for 18-21, while fornication and such happens all the time despite the age limits anyway. But that's a big snowball I am NOT gonna delve into xP Short version? Kids will be kids, and so long as they aren't hurting themselves or others then why the fuss?

Biggest view of it all summed up there. Irrevocable decisions should only be made when those same decisions are able to be understood.

GhostInTheShell

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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Based and Unicorn Pilled

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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@ GhostInTheShell

FoxyDean

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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Oh wow. "All the actual experts who study this shit say I'm wrong, but clearly there's a multinational, multi-discipline conspiracy between them and I, some rando fuckwad on the internet, am correct." You are hilarious, and going to look as absolutely unhinged as those dumbasses who were protesting against desegregation in a few decades.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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@ FoxyDean

Experts in what? XP

AlexReynard

2 days, 7 hrs ago

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@ FoxyDean

If all the experts say he's wrong, why is America the only country clinging to the gender-affirming care model after numerous European countries did evidentiary reviews, found there was no strong evidence that it did more good than harm, and drastically scaled it back?

moyomongoose

3 weeks, 1 day ago

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https://youtu.be/iCebUg47TEU?t=100

Scrimbleshanks

3 weeks ago

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Naw.

Sheepcon

3 weeks ago

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why are you dumb?

SophisticatedFox

3 weeks ago

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lmao so you didn't learn the first time and just decided to continue?

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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@ SophisticatedFox

The opposite, I learned plenty, and with every passing day I'm all the more vindicated as the public takes notice of this unconscionable nonsense. I know that it bothers you, but you'll survive XP.

IBp

3 weeks ago

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@ SophisticatedFox

"So you didn't learn the first time"

When you're so obviously correct you need to intimidate people into compliance. Lmao.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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Well he's very sophisticated, after all XP.

MaxDeGroot

3 weeks ago

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You are astoundingly calm in all this, Roarey. Who are you and what have you done with the REAL Roarey?

:D :D :D

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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@ MaxDeGroot

Two reasons: first, I don't have that sort of energy anymore, I've been through hell and it has kicked my arse. Second, if I don't control my temper I'll be censored. The latter is now easier thanks to the former.

IBp

3 weeks ago

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@ MaxDeGroot

Inkbunny policy is the r-word.

"Really really good" is what I mean obviously.

chunkychip

3 weeks ago

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I have 0 idea what this even means LMFAOO

chunkychip

3 weeks ago

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@ chunkychip

Oh wait nvm this is an anti-trans post....

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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@ chunkychip

Nah, it's an anti-lying to children and ruining their lives post. I don't have anything against trans people. It's okay if you don't understand what it means, there is plenty of porn on here for you.

chunkychip

3 weeks ago

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To be particularly honest I don't understand what you mean about "lying to children and ruining their lives". Because gender identity quiet literally has 0 effect on the lives of children whatsoever.

What I do know for certain is this: In my expirience, anybody who
1: Believes any discussion in regards to gender identity is "an agende" or "a threat against children" (which in of itself is used against trans people all of the time and is the sole reason behind every single anti-trans law, so please don't pretend otherwise),
2: has any sort of public disdain against "leftism" / progressively beliefs,
and 3: spreads ignorant and outdated beliefs in regards to gender identity / biological sex (which is that, neither are binary, for the simple fact that intersex individuals exist and very much do not consider themselves strictly biologically male or female)....

Probably has issues against trans people, even if not personally than ideologically. Quiet frankly I don't care if you dislike trans people or what they stand for, so there is 0 reason to be passive agressive towards me. But I have lived life as a minority long enough to know most people with issues against certain demographics either aren't aware of it, or know it isn't socially acceptable to admit to it. So your "I do not have issues against trans people" claim means nothing as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not here to go back and forth because IDC.... your view is yours and my view is mine, I'm here for the porn not for the politics. But im just here to take it how I see it. "People are lying to you about gender identity, they are targeting children with their gender agenda!! They're probably teaching 500 genders in kindergarten!!!" Has been used by blantant anti-trans groups for at least a literal decade now. 💀💀💀

RoareyRaccoon

2 weeks, 6 days ago

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Edited 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Owner

@ chunkychip

It is easy to make the claim that what is happening in and to society as a result of gender theory isn't happening at all, but that claim is entirely false. Its impact on society is demonstrated every day in the news, so gaslighting people that none of this is even happening is absolutely sick. Seriously, what you've just done there is really evil.

MrZero

3 weeks ago

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It's nice to see this. The only times gender is mentioned online is by the few people who are mass spamming about fanfictional gender abilities.

RoareyRaccoon

3 weeks ago

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@ MrZero

You're very welcome XP.

OiledDog

2 weeks, 6 days ago

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I completely agree with this, I just don't get how you can be so correct on this issue but still be gay. Every one of these bullet points counts for homosexuality too. Neither one is natural, neither one should be exposed to children, none of these various "identities" should be tolerated in a healthy society.

RoareyRaccoon

2 weeks, 5 days ago

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@ OiledDog

Quite simple really, homosexuality is naturally-occurring, in that it isn't artificially induced; it's just not normal/the norm.Individuals being gay or trans is tolerated justly because individual lives are respected, there's no reason why they shouldn't be. My objection in this submission is not to trans people at all, but to the imposition on society of nonsense rhetoric, lies, that are specifically meant to alter what society considers to be normal. The original gay rights movement was about gay people joining societies as members of it like anyone else, it was only after this was achieved that socialists have kept it alive to use as a vehicle to impose their political will on culture. Pretending there is a gay community, that said community is oppressed and therefore deserves empathy, using that empathy to get away with saying and doing outrageously impolite and disgraceful things etc.

None of the bullet-points counts for homosexuality at all, but you could very reasonably make the argument that the gay rights movement in the west is pumping out evil rubbish just as much as gender theory is.

LongTom

2 weeks, 5 days ago

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I'm mature enough to know that being gay is simply about sexual interests. It has nothing to do with being strong or weak, or smart, or creative, or liking Barbara Streisand. Also yes, asexuality exists too. J. Edgar Hoover has been called gay, but far more likely he simply had no interest in sex. Maybe it was physical, or some childhood trauma. Considering how big and fat he got, it would be no surprise if he couldn't perform in the sack.

A different gay furry said to me one time that he hated people looking down on him. He assured me he wasn't spreading AIDS and he was attracted to adults and not children. And I didn't bring up the subject.

AlexReynard

2 days, 6 hrs ago

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Edited 2 days, 6 hrs ago by Owner