Here we have one of those ultra strict "logic machines" who believe that a mile long list of made up rules are equal to Bible scripture. Of course pic #2 shows what those logic machines do when they are stumped by being proved wrong from Bible scriptures.
Even the decent churches have issues that cause strife and division among the congregation, but nothing like the stuff listed below. This is pretty much the way hate monger churches like Westboro of Topeka, Kansas operates. Fortunately, what is depicted here does not represent the way of thinking of all churches...Heaven help us all if that were the case. Some so called churches dream up and espouse crass dogma, making claims it can be supported with Bible scripture; * Some of them espouse the notion the Nazi holocaust was a result of God punishing the Jews...Which makes no sense when you consider the Jews are God's chosen people. https://youtu.be/M25PNAWs9u8?t=480
* There are some who will try to tell you the late Reverend Martin Luther King is burning in Hell today...Another thing logic machines are well known for doing...putting on their own wig 'n' robe and carrying their own little gavel around everywhere they go so they can play "judge". https://youtu.be/8Xh5oz1edZ8?t=34
* Some churches of the misguided adamantly insist we are still under the old Mosaic Law, and that you have to be circumcised as an atonement for the sin of mankind...Any preacher who knows what he is talking about will tell you that is a slap in the face to God, considering his Son had already went to the cross as atonement for the sin of mankind. https://youtu.be/cv2Ctk29qDg?t=829 _________________________________________________________________________________
The church my dad's family attended back in the 1920s and 1930s, when my dad was growing up, was so strict, the following are a few examples of what they believed;
* Moving out on your own is only for married people...Their reason being, one person living alone can get into too much trouble with sin without each other to keep each other in check. They believed if you never get married, you continue to live in Mommy and Daddy's house...When the parents are past away from old age, you then live in with relatives (cousins, siblings, etc) for the rest of your life... ...When you really think about it, that's the kind of life you could have expected if you had been born mentally retarded...Oh say, like an IQ of 42 or 36 or something like that...That whole damn way of thinking is mentally retarded.
*Another one was, you don't talk about sexual matters...You never make a peep about it... period... end of sentence. They believed, "That kind of stuff ain't fit to talk about". I had an aunt (my dad's older sister) who had to be told that by her husband after they were married, as incredible as it may sound...She was never told prior to being married and didn't know...I heard it about blew her mind when she found out. Such of the older strict churches and other religions believe a young couple will figure those things out when they get married. 1920s & 1930s...Clamming up and not talking about it would also go for; 1. A young boy who is upset over finding out he was circumcised. 2. A young boy who feels inferior because his genitalia is smaller than average. 3. A woman who was raped...They believed in punishing the perpetrator, but the victim was expected to go on like it never happened and "shut up about it". 4. An adolescent or young adult who was molested as a kid years ago...They felt if it happened a long time ago, it was better to let it go than to "stir up a bunch of filthy talk that is not fit to talk about". 5. Young man experiencing erectile dysfunction. 6. Young couple experiencing impotency issues. 7. Old man having prostate issues. That and more were taboo to talk about. The discussion of sex was avoided like it was the bubonic plague on steroids. 1960s & 1970s...Because of my dad carrying that belief down to the next generation of our family, I myself found out about the birds and bees from friends in school, including the urban legends that went along with hearing it from that source. My dad would never allow it to be talked about at home. Had anti-circumcision movements been around back in the 1930s, I am sure the church my dad's family attended would have considered those movements an abomination in the sight of God?...Even though it's not, but there are those who are so narrow minded they think it is...Taking sides on the issue would have had nothing to do with it. In fact, that church didn't believe you had to be circumcised to begin with. With them, it would have been a narrow minded matter of, "Ya don't talk 'bout that stuff. Ya supposed ta keep clammed up 'bout it, ya heah".
*There some of those logic machines who think it's a sin to look at an animal showing his penis (like when a dog sits and his red rocket pokes out). I suspect my dad's family's church believed it was a sin by the way he got on my case at a zoo when I was 6 years old for watching a wilder beast peeing. I can just imagine one of those strict churches going to an outing to take the kids to visit a zoo. Every so often you might hear a parent telling their kids, "Turn your head the other way! Stop looking at that or I'll slap you!"...Moments later another parent says, "Don't look at that, Johnny. It's too nasty to look at". Ya know...Kind of like if you look into the eyes of Medusa, you'll turn to stone; https://youtu.be/3BCos96N6I8?t=374 ...It's like what is a zoo suppose to do?...Round up all their male animals and cut their dicks off?
*Here's a doozie...The guitar is the Devil's instrument...The pastor of the church my dad's family attended actually preached that. In the 1930s, the church my dad's family attended believed that jazz, ragtime and boogie songs were the Devil's music. In the church my dad had us attend in the late 1960s and early 1970s, they believed rock-n-roll was the Devil's music...one deacon even claiming rock-n-roll is the kind of music played in Hell. I hear there churches today that call ambient music Devil's music.
*This one was a widely held notion among mainstream society to begin with in those days...The church my dad's family attended believed that inter-racial was an abomination in the sight of God ... ...Although that didn't set well with my grand dad and his parents, the pastor had them convinced my great grand parent's marriage was "marred by a mistake". But the church didn't believe in divorce either, thus considered the marriage and family to be legitimate, and welcomed in the church...They figured, after all, they had spiritual needs too.
Moving ahead to the late 1960s and early 1970s; The church my dad had us attend when I was growing up was a real daffy mess. Some of their rules were; * The guys had to have their as short as a military style haircut...Had to be away from the ears and off the neck...And that was in a day and time when the longer hair styles like you see on the early 1970s, The Brady Bunch television series were in style. https://youtu.be/vPaSLyHxqSs?t=16
https://youtu.be/ICVXf8Vznec?t=62 Needless to say, I kind of stood out looking out of place among the others in my class with my "Daddy mandated", military style haircut, when the other boys had their hair half way over their ears, and a few boys in our class actually having hair down to their shoulders. https://youtu.be/SlIb2oRbCaU?t=17
* No facial hair was another rule. Their belief was that it had too much of a "hippie look", and the pastor had an overwhelming distain against hippies. I remember a sermon one Sunday when the pastor was on one of his usual raves, verbally bashing hippies, he said wfw, "Mothers. Fathers. I'm not saying a beard is going to send your son to Hell." Then he banged his fist down on the podium, pointed his finger at the congregation, and shouted, "BUT IT WILL IDENTIFY HIM WITH THAT BUNCH THAT'S GOING THERE!". When I got old enough to shave, my dad had me shaving all the way up near the tops of my ears...looked jack-ass as all Hell in my opinion...I'm sure the other kids in school thought the same thing.
* Woman and girls had to ware a dress or skirt, and the hem had to be below the knees. The gals were not allowed to wear slacks or pants. If woman and girls were participating in sports, they were expected to ware culottes.
* No bell bottom pants or jeans (which was popular in those days). Their belief was that it had too much of a hippie look...the notion that hippies wear bell bottoms. Men's suits even came with flare leg pants back then. When ever a member of that church purchased a new suit, the first thing they did was take the pants to a tailor's shop and have them altered to being straight leg pants.
* No rock-n-roll. They called it the Devil's music.
* No dancing. Even tapping your foot to a song was dancing by their definition.
* No going to the movies. They would say, "It might be a "G" rated movie you are taking your kids to see today. But you are patronizing the same movie house that showed an "X" rated movie last week".
* No going to beaches and public swimming pools. They considered that "mixed bathing" because of men and women who are wearing bathing suits being in the same vicinity...BTW, speedos and two piece bikinis were considered a real whopper of a sin.
* They considered inter-racial marriages a abomination in the sight if God, which they made an issue of with us years later, going three generations back.
* Black people were not allowed to attend the church. There was a time an Afro-American couple showed up one Sunday morning. They never got past the vestibule to the auditorium when they were met by a deacon. He told them, "Sir. Mam. I'm sorry, but this is a white only church, and we don't allow coloured people here. But First Shiloh Baptist Church up the road would be glad to have you". ...Good way to make someone feel unwelcome.
There were times the pastor would make statements favorable to the Klu Klux Klan, and on more than one occasion used the "N" word in the pulpit...It made me wonder if he didn't have a hood and robe hinging up in his closet...along with some of those deacons of his and other congregation members...I guess their long list of rules didn't include any of that.
I guess as far as my dad was concerned, he tolerate the rhetoric as long as the pastor espoused that strict, narrow minded doctrine my dad was taught to believe in since his childhood days. One of the deacons who first invited us there, sometime about 1969, was also a longtime friend of my parents. However, beginning in about 1973, our family background became known to the church...whether it was from a family member sharing that with a friend in the church, I don't know. It was kind of like how a school of sharks would turn on an injured member, but in gradual, subtle ways with their church politics. One example being; That was about the time my dad had bought another car (a modest car, not expensive). One Sunday as church let out, a nine year old boy from the congregation asked, "Hey! Did welfare get that car for you all?". On our way home, my mom said, "That had to be a parent who put that boy up to asking that. A question like doesn't come from a nine year old boy". Several months later; My dad never was the kind to keep up with current trends in clothing styles, and wore out of style clothing from about the 1950s. Other men in the church wore the flashy, polyester, double knit suits, the colourful wide ties, two tone shoes with some of them being slip-on style (which were in style in the early 1970s). The suits my dad wore were mostly in colours of brown, grey, black, dark olive green, or a tweed pattern. He wore the narrow ties that were mostly maroon, black or dark grey. The shoes my dad had were old navy shoes he had for the past 30 years that he at times took to a shoe repair shop to keep them up in good shape (all of which went out of style with the 1940s and 1950s). Well, one day, after a Wednesday evening service, one of the deacons and the song leader approached my dad. One of them pulled his tie up a bit and said to him, "What do you say we take up a special offering this coming Sunday so we get you into something more in style". My dad told them it was none of their business, but the deacon and song leader did get a good laugh out of it. In the months to follow, although were welcome to attend church there, it felt like we had a 2nd class token status among the rest of the congregation. In the late summer of 1975, we pulled out of that church and acquired membership with a different church. They didn't adhere to the narrow minded dogma my dad was looking for in a church, but we were treated with the same respect everyone else enjoyed. Since that time, my mother had said that church we left was more of a cult than it was a church.
Just a little note in passing. I guess if my dad, being as strict and narrow minded as he was, had a way of knowing of some of the art I've posted over the years, he'd probably be so angry he'd be doing summersaults in his grave.
There are some things that tend to corrupt religion faster than anything else. Those are self-righteousness, hypocrisy and hatred. The problem with the WBC is that they are hung up on old ceremonial laws that Christ himself removed the need for, but they don't seem to have a problem with breaking any of the moral laws that we are still bound by.
Circumcision, dietary requirements and dress codes were ceremonial laws that we are no longer bound by. A long-haired, gay, pork-eating, uncut hippie, who loves his neighbors and even his enemies, is almost certainly more pleasing to God than a self-righteousness, hypocrite, who hates sinners, but happens to go to church each week. I could be wrong on this, but that's pretty much what the book says. I personally believe in God, and that I will face him some day. I am so far from perfect that it isn't even funny. But, I'm at least doing what I can to love everyone, since that was said by Christ to be his greatest command. It's basically the one rule that covers them all. If a person truly loves everyone, they will automatically be obeying all the moral laws, and we are not bound by the ceremonial laws any more. It does not matter to God if a penis is cut or uncut, if we marry someone of a different race, or if we discuss the interesting shape of a raccoon penis with a friend! It does matter to God if we hate rather than love though. Of course, this is just my opinion, but the world would be better off if the WBC, and similar believing churches learned to love, instead of to condemn.
Man has no authority to decide who goes to Hell or not, so has no right to condemn. That alone appears to leave the WBC on shaky ground with God. We will be judged based on how we judge others, so if we condemn, it leaves room for us to be condemned. Self-righteousness, hypocrisy, hatred and condemnation are dangerous things to hold onto, because they tend to bite back very hard. It's comparable to Karma in another religion.
There are some things that tend to corrupt religion faster than anything else. Those are self-righte
You had mentioned... ..."A long-haired, gay, pork-eating, uncut hippie, who loves his neighbors and even his enemies, is almost certainly more pleasing to God than a self-righteousness, hypocrite, who hates sinners, but happens to go to church each week. I could be wrong on this, but that's pretty much what the book says." There is not any "could be wrong about it". That's is exactly God's stand according to the Bible.
Jesus saw hope for prostitutes and the alike. But to the self righteous Pharisees, he told them they will get the "greater damnation" (hotter place in Hell). Jesus told the Pharisees they were like a drinking vessel that was clean on the outside, but filthy on the inside. So in saying, you are not wrong in your statement.
Another thing that corrupts a church is teaching doctrine that is not scriptural, and adding their own laws and rules as though it is scripture (like they're gonna add to the Bible or something like that). A good example is the 19th century writings of Ellen G. White (Seventh Day Adventist).
A final note on this comment...Westboro and churches like them are probably the biggest cause of others wanting nothing to do with belief in God, church, Christianity, the Bible, preachers, or anything others recognize as "religion". Those kind of churches are unwittingly ministries of the Devil. And sometimes I doubt it's done unwittingly. They turn more folks atheist whether they want to acknowledge that they are doing it or not...Just what the Devil wants. Quite often, I encounter others who that has happened to, both online and in person. Many of them mention examples like WBC as reasons why they don't believe there is a God.
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You had mentioned... ..."A long-haired, gay, pork-eating, uncut hippie, who loves his neighbors and
Very much true. I think people are accountable for what they do, based largely on what they know. I don't imagine it pleases God at all, when a church leads many more people away from him than toward him.
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"Those kind of churches are unwittingly ministries of the Devil. And sometimes I doubt it's done unwittingly."
I agree. They can't exactly to stand in front of God and say, "oh sorry, we didn't know." They've been confronted too many times by other churches, so they know. Sure, some followers may not realize the path they are on, but the church as a whole definitely knows.
Very much true. I think people are accountable for what they do, based largely on what they know.
Edward Lear had little patience with monks ,dervishes,etc., in the filthy savage-infested wilds of moslem states, or even in the Balkans where the Greeks, Serbs et al, were little more than eaters of dirt... He said in one of his letters that more pleasant in the eyes of God is a Jew working an honest living to feed & clothe his family, than a monk who lives celibately and mumbles prayer all day. (His actual remark was an exercise of alliteration as "marmalade-mincing misogynist monks !")
I,too, became an atheist in may,'14. But I believe in the afterlife.
Edward Lear had little patience with monks ,dervishes,etc., in the filthy savage-infested wilds of m
Beware of this too. There are some false prophets of those kind of churches who will take a little bit of truth to attract followers, then wrap that little bit of truth in big lies.
Beware of this too. There are some false prophets of those kind of churches who will take a little b
That is true. Sadly, there is often an agenda that is self-serving to one or more people in most any group. This is a big reason why followers of anything should never just fall for what they are told. We have minds so we can think and test things, but few people exercise that ability. This is how groups like the WBC continue to exist. They say things, often in the name of God, knowing that few followers will ever test it against their own Bible. For example, the Bible never says that God hates gay people, nor that one race is more godly than another. But, those things are often preached in God's name. The WBC might say that you are going to Hell, because you draw naked animal genitals, but I strongly suspect that Christ would simply say, "nice art", and get into a conversation with you over artistic technique or something! After all, he created the designs in the first place, and it would be like two artists talking about their art. :)
That is true. Sadly, there is often an agenda that is self-serving to one or more people in most an
I'd say if WBC claims anyone is going to Hell for drawing a naked animal genital, they would be trying to remove splinters out of our eyes while they got beams in their own eyes.
Besides that, what actually sends a soul to Hell is never becoming a Christian before they leave this life...something God requires of everyone who is not perfect...and none of us are perfect. Even a serial killer can accept Jesus and be saved if he's truly sincere with God, and is willing to let God turn him from his wicked ways. On the flip side of the same coin, take a little old librarian woman who has never even so much as harmed a flea, and never missed a day of church in her life, but she insists, "That Jesus stuff is for bad people, and I'm not a bad person". If that librarian feels she's been so good all her life she doesn't need Jesus to save her soul, she will go straight to Hell when she dies. And that's not judging. The Bible will back that up because NO one is perfect...No Jesus, no Heaven, but no sinner is too bad to be saved. Self righteous folks don't understand it's about pardon, grace, forgiveness. Their attempts to be perfect by their own merit, the Bible calls "filthy rags".
Us being being perfect in THIS life???...It's impossible. It can't be done.
The reason WBC thinks God deems some people better than others is because they believe in Calvinism...which is another doctrine of heresy, by John Calvin during the 1500s.
I'd say if WBC claims anyone is going to Hell for drawing a naked animal genital, they would be tryi
Given a choice, I'd rather spend my eternity living next door to a repentant and forgiven serial killer, than to live next to a self-righteous and unforgiving WBC follower. A repentant person is more likely to show love to his neighbor than a self-righteous person. In any case, I trust the one who decides where I'll end up, so my afterlife is probably going to be a great adventure. :)
Given a choice, I'd rather spend my eternity living next door to a repentant and forgiven serial kil
Why is it I'm tempted to dig up some people and see if they are really flipping in their graves? ANd some of those that you don't hav an answer to are probably a yes.
Why is it I'm tempted to dig up some people and see if they are really flipping in their graves? ANd
Those who subliminally thought they would never die, and thought their son and daughters would never grow up and leave home, and thought things would never change, and thought they would always maintain their position as a control freak forever...I'd say they are spinning in their graves like an armature in a high RPM electric motor about now.... ...Kind of like "BIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ".
Those who subliminally thought they would never die, and thought their son and daughters would never
These people helped push me into - atheism. In May '14, I stopped believing in any PERSON namable as God, let alone a trio of persons. I do believe in the soul, BUT not in a God. There's a creative force, but no PERSON.
The 10 Commandments are man-made. That's ALL I use. And I don't want anybody interpreting them for me.
These people helped push me into - atheism. In May '14, I stopped believing in any PERSON namable as
In 1968 the Assemblies of Yahweh was organized by an arch-heretic. He claimed that we must obey all the old testament laws (food laws, dress laws, purity laws, Jewish days of obligation...) and that Christ's real name was Yahshuah, not Jesus Christ. No wonder the sect only has a few thousand members. If Christ didn't abolish all these Jewish laws, then he din't accomplish anything ! I told them to leave me alone, and, to their credit, they did.
This arch-heretic, Jacob Meyer, died some years ago. How long his repressive sect can last unchanged is anybody's guess. The Worldwide Church of God fell apart after its founder died and his son was excommunicated. In fact, its founder was declared a heretic by his deluded followers and all his books discontinued.
In 1968 the Assemblies of Yahweh was organized by an arch-heretic. He claimed that we must obey all
