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AlexReynard

You may have noticed that enormous chunks of my gallery have been removed.

Funny that.

I'm sure the timing is entirely coincidental, and that my last journal had absolutely nothing to do with the sudden realization that, "I failed to review [the submissions] properly at the time."

If my submissions always were in violation, then, fine. I won't contest their removal.

Only... you and I both know why you did this. I've been in this moment before, again and again on FurAffinity. Rules that had not been enforced for years are suddenly enforced strictly to the letter, by sheer random roll of the dice, right after I say something that makes someone feel so upset they are filled with a desire to punish.

I only wonder if that was you, or if you let that person use you as their instrument.

Did you think I wouldn't draw attention to it?




UPDATE: "I reviewed them because your journal had me on your account due to some of the comments it received and I noticed the AI submissions using Bing."

These were, of course, the same submissions that this support team member had noticed before, reviewed before, and had allowed to continue existing on the site before. That time, I was told that the problem was that I had not properly made all the seed and model data available. This time it was to inform me that a free, public-use generator model is closed source and not downloadable. This team member wants to prevent users from keeping their generations within a "walled garden". That's very important, I'm sure. Important enough that it just... slipped their mind the first time. Despite me putting the name of the model I used explicitly on many of the images themselves. But hey, mistakes happen. I'm sure there's no pattern. I'm sure I'm just seeing coincidences in randomness.
Viewed: 150 times
Added: 4 days, 2 hrs ago
 
SpoonFox
4 days, 1 hr ago
Actually, that's half my fault. I reported a comment about inciting violence and suicide that got removed from your journal. Based on the reply, I know which mod it was, they're the one who deals with AI related stuff. This happens to many AI directors, and you were not targeted. They normally don't directly target AI galleries unless they're adjacent, or the files are directly reported. Since you're not a pure AI Director, they likely didn't come by your gallery in their usual rounds of AI enforcement.

So it's not as targeted as you think. I don't think someone reported your gallery. This fits with that particular moderator's moderation style too, because it has happened to other AI Directors "My gallery was up for months and now I have to take it down" kind of thing.

Mistakes do happen, and coincidences happen.

EDIT: Also, I don't know what fits within their realm of acceptable AI these days, I've seen things I thought fine still get taken down. That's why they have an AI Director on the mod team who is fluent in this gobbledygook.
AlexReynard
4 days, 1 hr ago
This is why I like to keep any disturbances on journals within my own control. I don't trust admins to not have wandering eyes.
SpoonFox
4 days, 1 hr ago
I mean... You were technically breaking the rules? At least now you're not?
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
How was I supposed to know I was breaking the rules when this same admin told me, "Here's what you have to do to make those submissions acceptable", and I complied, and they turn around and say, "Whoops! I made a mistake before when I told you explicitly how to be in compliance with the rules! All your stuff's gone now!"
SpoonFox
1 day, 8 hrs ago
Yep... I know which mod that is. They've made that mistake a few times. Put in a ticket about it.
MrZero
3 days, 22 hrs ago
I don't think AR was breaking any rules either way. This is just someone acting on a political agenda. Like an idiot. And since this is after the whatshisname Kirk events, Kirk's speeches and views would break more rules in Inkbunny than AlexReynard has. AR goes for "gonzo journalist" fun stories, Kirk goes for open fascist oppression of people. If the mods can remove "vast chunks" of AR's gallery, do they also have a button that'll restore it?
SpoonFox
3 days, 11 hrs ago
It had nothing to do with politics, that moderator's MO is to check galleries after checking journals if the gallery has AI, since they're the AI moderator. He isn't political at all, even if he was, wouldn't he delete the kirk journal if he didn't like it, especially after what you said?

The moderator was just here because someone told another user to commit suicide in graphic detail.
TheDeinonychus
3 days, 22 hrs ago
Let's be honest. This site's AI content 'rules' are so draconian, and so selectively enforced, they blatantly contradict with the supposed principles of 'freedom of expression' that InkBunny has repeatedly claimed to uphold in the past.

And yeah, I don't think it's just a coincidence that your AI art suddenly got 're-examined' all of a sudden.
SpoonFox
3 days, 11 hrs ago
I already explained how that moderator acts, your tin foil hat just wants to find a reason to vilify the moderators. That particular moderator isn't political. His works actually did break the ACP, but apparently rules for thee not me lines up with people like you. For the love of god, you need to realize that this site allows us to be here and speak all our nonsense, they're not your enemy just because they do something you don't agree with.
SpoonFox
2 days, 23 hrs ago
You literally do not have an icon I can associate you with, Deinonychus. I didn't know I had you blocked because of this. Regardless, it was never about 'winning arguments'. This wasn't an argument. This was an explanation of what happened. You're the one who wishes to argue with others, so now I know why I had you on block. *shrug*
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
SpoonFox sure does talk a lot, doesn't he? Seems kinda defensive of the admins for some reason. Can't imagine why.
SpoonFox
1 day, 8 hrs ago
Because I worked as a moderator for years, and understand how the IB mod team works? I'm not being defensive. I'm explaining things so you can get a better clear picture without assuming shit. You can literally open a trouble ticket asking about their moderation policy, and there's a chance you'll get someone clearing things up for you.
GreenReaper
GreenReaper
can also help you in understanding what happened, if he's not too busy. Take your tinfoil hat off, bud. I'm a clarity and transparency addict when it comes to this kind of stuff.

Also, yes, I talk a lot, because many people don't read other comments. I even tossed the idea for seeing who you've got blocked to prevent this kind of thing happening to reaper, but I learned you're supposed to use trouble tickets for those suggestions. Go figure. If you don't like me talking, you can always block me. It's a healthy thing to do if you feel someone's annoying.

You can also just politely tell me to stop commenting, and honestly? I'll oblige. But it does feel like you want people like me to comment so you can try to 'gotcha' me or claim I'm being defensive, or you can paint me as a villain, or just have someone to argue/debate with.
AlexReynard
1 day, 7 hrs ago
"But it does feel like you want people like me to comment so you can try to 'gotcha' me or claim I'm being defensive, or you can paint me as a villain, or just have someone to argue/debate with."

Take your tinfoil hat off, bud.
Dakisuke
3 days, 8 hrs ago
Let’s keep politics out of this one please.
TheDeinonychus
3 days, 4 hrs ago
AI art has to jump through so many hoops on this site that would be ridiculous if traditional art was held to the same standard. If they did have the same requirements of traditional art, you'd see probably 80% of the art on this site vanish. Yet, because it's 'not real art' to a lot of people, AI art is placed under far more excessive scrutiny than anything else.

Not to mention AI art has been the target of a lot of fearmongering, accusations about 'stealing art styles' and the like, while any half-talented artist could easily do the same with a little practice.

Most people can't tell you why AI art is so heavily policed without making assumptions about it that are demonstrably false if you spend 10 minutes looking into how it works.

And to a certain fox, nice work blocking people from replying to your comments. Any way to 'win' an argument I suppose.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
I'm just trying to imagine all this site's users having to suddenly remember, 'What pen did I draw this with? What brand of paper? What's the serial number of the scanner I used!?' And if you can't remember all of that and type it all in, there goes your art into the shredder!

I do understand the need for some restrictions. DeviantArt turned to, like, 90% AI art in what felt like a few months. They want this to still be a place for traditional art; fine. But the rule I "broke", the intent of it was so that, people had the opportunity to use the same info to make the same images if they wanted to, so things were fair. I only used free-use, publicly-available models. But that wasn't good enough. The letter of the rule was enforced, not the spirit of it. And when I see that happening, I
am not filled with feelings of respect and goodwill.

(Just the other day, I missed my bus coming home from a doctor's appointment, because the nurse wasted everyone's time bothering my doctor while he was off with another patient, to confirm with him that she was actually supposed to do the bloodwork that he asked for. He'd written out the order for it, but because the timing wasn't exactly orthodox, she couldn't bring herself to make an actual decision. Excruciating.)
TheDeinonychus
1 day, 7 hrs ago
I can understand wanting to keep it separate from traditional art. But if that's the case, having a sister site for it, or it's own unique category makes more sense rather than forcing people to jump through so many hoops just to be able to post it.

And as for Deviant Art, you do need to keep something into account. The big thing that AI art did that a lot of people are upset about is that it lowered the 'barriers for entry' when it comes to artistic expression. Anyone may be able to doodle, but not many people have the time, talent, or practice to actually express themselves with traditional art. While it's not instant (another misconception people still have), generative AI let anyone make artwork that was pleasing to them. So, where it's allowed, you have a lot more people posting things than you did before. Yes, this creates a 'flood' of AI art, because artistic expression has become a lot easier for people to do. Personally, I find some of the things I'm interested in, that not many traditional artists bothered drawing, are a lot more common now because of AI art.
AlexReynard
1 day, 6 hrs ago
"I can understand wanting to keep it separate from traditional art. But if that's the case, having a sister site for it, or it's own unique category makes more sense rather than forcing people to jump through so many hoops just to be able to post it."

HEAR HEAR.

"Yes, this creates a 'flood' of AI art, because artistic expression has become a lot easier for people to do. Personally, I find some of the things I'm interested in, that not many traditional artists bothered drawing, are a lot more common now because of AI art."

No disagreement; I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Especially since, DeviantArt went from being loaded with MSPaint doodles and copy+paste image collages, to at least images that look of average quality. I myself don't like drawing, because the actual process of getting my hands to replicate what's in my mind is never enjoyable or satisfying. Plus, yeah, you look through DA now and you'll see entire accounts devoted to the most niche fetishes I have ever seen in my life. It's a wonder to behold. I love seeing when someone has the drive to create five thousand images of 1950s dental headgear.
TheDeinonychus
1 day, 6 hrs ago
" AlexReynard wrote:
"I love seeing when someone has the drive to create five thousand images of 1950s dental headgear."


Heh, ok, I'm not that niche, but yeah. You see a lot more art of things that were a lot harder to find before. Before, you had to spend years of practice to be able to draw exactly what you wanted (and then still not be happy with it), or have free cash to commission another artist to draw it for you (if you can even find someone willing to draw what you want).

There will always be value in traditional art, but with generative AI, people have a new, cheaper option. It might take 500+ generations to get exactly what you want, but if you just want art of a general niche, you can get that fairly easily. And especially with how hard strapped people are these days, not as many people can afford to commission art anymore.

And yeah, there was a lot of 'slop' art well before AI was ever involved. Seems people forget about that. Just because it was 'done by a person', some of the worst, laziest art gets a pass. Meanwhile AI art is required to meet a 'minimum quality standard'. I've seen AI art taken down because one eye was just slightly a different shade of blue from the other. Or extremely vague 'anatomical anomalies' with no indication of just what was wrong with the image.

And a lot of people seem to be trying to run with the line of 'what about the artists?', claiming AI art means there's no reason for artists to take commissions or draw anything because everyone will just use AI. Meanwhile the same people don't seem bothered by all the mass-produced products they consume that at one point were made by hand, but now is manufactured in automated assembly lines. Selective outrage and fearmongering at it's finest.
Kadm
1 day, 2 hrs ago
" The letter of the rule was enforced, not the spirit of it.


I think you have made an assumption about our intent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dall-E (any flavor) does not appear to be open source. When we wrote:

" You must not post work using closed-source tools or services that do not make their code and models freely available for others to reuse in an equivalent manner


I thought the intent was pretty clear. Dall-E may be free, but it is not open. They make no code available. There have been some pretty small tweaks to the verbiage of parts of the AI policy as we've worked out kinks, but I think our intent has been pretty clear in this part since the start.

I think it's unfortunate that the person that worked with you in the first place did not catch the model use. Frankly, their initial mistake was not locking your submissions in the first place, and allowing you to unhide them yourself without validation. There is a reason that we generally act the way that we do. I'll certainly have some words about how it was handled, but that doesn't mean we can allow submissions that violate policy to persist. We notate that it was our mistake, and removing them doesn't count as a further violation beyond what you were originally warned for. If we allowed your submissions just because we made a mistake, we'd have to constantly deal with people reporting them, and complaining about it.

If there was anything you feel the need to retrieve because you did not keep copies for yourself, submissions that are not purged (because they are abusive or illegal) can be undeleted for up to 90 days. I would note, Inkbunny is not a backup, and does not warrant that we will always have or maintain your data. But in this case, given the mistakes, if you wanted something restored (hidden and locked) for the purposes of re-downloading it, I'd do that.
kitsunelegend
3 days, 2 hrs ago
Gonna be totally honest, I had no idea you were even posting stuff because I LOATH AI "art" and have it all blacklisted. In fact I wish IB wouldn't even allow it on the site at all.

AI "art" is boring, cold, mechanical, and soulless. I want nothing to do with that slop.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
Gosh, I really don't give a shit.
RobbieWallace
3 days ago
1 You argue with Idiot
2 Idiot reports you
3 Moderator obeys Idiot
4 Some of your works that were there for years disappear that day

It has happened to me several times

kyecoonvox
3 days ago
f they were in violation of the rules they should be removed if you don't like the rules go else were very simple if something has been there for a while but is still in violation you got free time it should still be removed
SpoonFox
3 days ago
Robbie posted an image of someone else's character being brutally killed and marked with a swastika against the owner of the character's wishes. The only reason I knew about it is he told me he'd be uploading it that night, so I saw it before the admins took it down. I don't know if any other of his works were removed, but that is the one case I know it was, and it wasn't from an 'argument', the admins just catch violent hate art and inciting violence stuff quick because of the site policy (same for Illicit Posts like CSAM, which they had to deal with a few months ago). Robbie likes to exaggerate when people do stuff and make up stuff about people to vilify them when he doesn't get his way. The moderators are just doing their jobs.

Also, no one reported Alex's artwork, the moderator was in the comments section because another user incited violence (told the person to commit suicide) which had nothing to do with Alex. It's just that the particular moderator checks galleries while he's checking journals for tickets, and if he sees AI, he investigates if it follows the ACP guidelines, as stated in this journal's quote.

They're literally complaining because they were caught breaking the rules, and got consequences for it.

And a reminder. The admins on this site don't take down stuff out of a vendetta, they don't "obey" users either, otherwise a few dozen people would be banned from the site, or their journals removed, or their hateful harassment removed. If they act out it's because you broke the rules, nothing more, nothing less.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
Say, how would you know about things this admin told me in PMs, hmm?
SpoonFox
1 day, 8 hrs ago
Because you posted a quote from the moderator, and that particular moderator is predictable as hell. As I said before, put in a ticket for this case if you believe errors were made, or get a better explanation.

I've also worked in moderation services for decades of my life, and understand how many of them think.

If you're trying to tinfoil that I'm a moderator, then that'd be incorrect. I just know how some of the moderators work because I've worked with them on some cases, as anyone should if they catch people breaking ToS or ACP.
AlexReynard
1 day, 6 hrs ago
Fair enough. I'd very much like to know who this admin is, just for the pure spiteful satisfaction of having a name to direct my bleak, evil thoughts at. But I'm not dumb enough to go stalking someone. If it falls into my lap, it falls into my lap.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
Ah, I see you've solved this problem for yourself by not having anything in your gallery. If you don't contribute, then the admins can't remove anything. Smart thinking there, Chuckles.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
[raises a glass to you.]

I'm not all ACAB, but I can understand how people can end up with that opinion if they get fucked, the cops show up, and they get fucked even harder instead of helped.

I can certainly at least understand the value of not snitching.
Blackraven2
2 days, 6 hrs ago
This still isn't like FA - on FA you would now be locked out of your account for a 10 years penalty time, and then banned immediately if you spoke out about it.

btw, were the artworks actually deleted or just force-set to private so they can not be seen by anyone? The last time I had a transgression the latter was the case.
AlexReynard
1 day, 10 hrs ago
No, he/she/whoever deleted them this time. They're just gone.

And yeah, I don't think this was a vendetta. The picture that's emerging is, if a user is the victim of hateful content on one of their submissions, this admin will then go poke around in their gallery until they can find some nitpicky rule they can enforce.

 It's like if your house got broken into by burglars, and the cop investigating it decided to also impound your car while they were there, because your license tag expired. As if you're not already dealing with enough. They let other people wake them up from behind their desk, and then they go find something to call a problem. So the citizens of this little town get the idea that, you can actually break all the rules you want; just don't call attention to yourself for any reason and you're fine.

I'm less upset about the content being removed than the sense of betrayal that, this admin left me believing that I had been following the rules. I complied. And I got punished worse afterwards. This does not give me confidence or respect for the site's admins.
SpoonFox
1 day, 8 hrs ago
Many of the site moderators are green to how IB deals with stuff because they were recently brought on. Mistakes happen. There's also always the idea of going to another site if you believe this site to be a lost cause. I only reuploaded my gallery for archival purposes here, but I don't agree with what half the administration does at times. Hell, I don't even think AI should be allowed in the same spaces as regular art, it should have its own section like Music and Writing does. I still have no clue why they allow literal MAPs on the site as long as they're "Quiet About It".

As for your assumptions... There are cops that will do that shit. Happened to a family member once. Cops called to a break-in, saw his car was 'stolen' in their records and towed it. He had just bought that car from a fucking police auction, wild fucking shit. When I worked as an admin or moderator, I'd dip my nose into files to see if there is anything I can get done now instead of later. It's not too uncommon in authorities to do that... Especially if there's a quota (Don't worry, IB mods don't have quotas... But did you know f-list moderators did at one point?)

It does seem weird that they outright removed it, normally they hide it. All removals are undoable, by the way.
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