My stance on Palworld~ by AsbieArts < Journal | Inkbunny, the Furry Art Community

1 year, 1 month ago

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Interesting to see.
We both have...more or less similar sentiments then.
Was interested in the game before learning about the A.I. art stuff.
I'm against the use of it for commercial gain, so it's definitely not a game I'll be supporting anytime soon.

TalentlessHack

1 year, 1 month ago

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Palworld wasn’t made with AI though. The developer made an AI imposter game that had nothing to do with Palworld.

They may have done some plotting with it, but afaik all of their completed work is done with humans.

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ TalentlessHack

I have reasons to believe the designing process was aided with AI.
I don't think the game itself, models and mechanics and what have you were made with AI,. but I absolutely believe they did use that for the designing.

and imma be honest, a company that makes "AI: Art Imposter" and has an AI wacko as their CEO is a massive red flag from the get go, imma just save myself the trouble and blacklist it.

TalentlessHack

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

I mean Square Enix ( My favorite game dev of all time ) is gung ho on the AI shit. I'm not going to stop consuming Final Fantasy games because of it.

Innocent until proven guilty for Palworld is my stance, and it's a fun twist on monsters.

I put some respect on your opinion tho.

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ TalentlessHack

That's fair! I don't expect nor intent to enforce my rather tight point of view on anyone! Figured I'd drop a notice early on to save me the trouble in the future.

Commented this on my channel, but if allegations end up being false, I'll obviously retract it. I just have a very short temper when it comes to AI

Reizinho

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ TalentlessHack

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a great way to see things, not just art. Very sane position.

playtoomuch

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

The game was announced in 2021. It was being worked on before the whole AI bullshit was happening

Gelemar

1 year, 1 month ago

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I was already turned off of it cause the implications of slavery, noncon (the way they word the breeding), and the general abuse of the palmon being funny cause hahah they're not human so it's hilarious! Then come find today about the AI thing and that the possibility that the game mechanics are straight up copy and pasted from their previous game with no improvement leaves a bad taste. Doesn't seem like the most reliable dev team, to be honest.

Wolfskid

1 year, 1 month ago

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Edited 1 year, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Gelemar

you mean like pokemon? they capture pokemon in balls and getting eggs is called breeding in there as well

Gelemar

1 year, 1 month ago

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Edited 1 year, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Wolfskid

I wouldn't know cause I don't play Pokemon, but I assume Gamefreak doesn't word it to sound like you're making them bteed against their will.

Wolfskid

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ Gelemar

no but in one game in black and white the bad side actually says that pokemon get enslaved by humans and forced to fight against their will, N was basically the protagonist untill he´s magically convinced that slavery is good

Bitcoon

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ Gelemar

Legitimately the only difference between the two games is that Palworld isn't afraid to actually come out and say what's happening on screen. I could argue Pokemon is the more harmful of the two because of the way it tries to present effectively the same things as positive and beneficial, actually.

These creatures fight to the bitter end to escape capture and remain wild and free. The moment the ball finalizes their capture, their personality flips on a dime, making them completely subservient to the human who caught them. Every dark implication of the world of Pokemon is swept under the rug and never spoken of, even though some "bad guy" groups actively oppose the capture of creatures - they can never delve into reasons why, explicitly. Ultimately, the franchise only ever comes to the conclusion "see, the Pokemon are totally happy once they realize how much they actually enjoy fighting and working for their human captors!". That is what we as the audience are supposed to root for. This is all present in a franchise primarily made for kids.

Palworld is simply being honest about what's happening there. It's your business to decide if you're a cruel abuser of Pals or someone who genuinely wants to forge bonds with them and help each other make a better life. People are giving this game shit for having guns and explicitly speaking on killing and slavery and forced breeding, but every one of those things is either present in Pokemon or a necessary implication of its world, skirted around with such great effort it's almost comical at times. My time with the game hasn't been marked with a bunch of edgy, dark, needlessly cruel storytelling about how great those awful things are. More often than not, you're actively fighting against the bad stuff. You just have the option to be heartless and cruel.

I don't understand why some people seem to think you can't show bad things on-screen without saying you're in favor of those bad things. If anything, between the two games, arguably, Pokemon is the worse because it's not willing to face the cruelty of what they're glorifying.

Wolfskid

1 year, 1 month ago

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ain´t ai they would have to have it posted on steam otherwise they would have crossed against their guidelines

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ Wolfskid

Valve has no way of detecting if AI was used in the design of the creatures. Which is literally the single point I am making.

WhiteSky

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

Does such a thing as AI 3D exist yet, where a program creates AI 3D models?

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ WhiteSky

There is, I remember seeing AI used to make 3D models, but they were extremely unwieldy/unusable. Maybe eventually the tech will evolve enough to make 3D artists obsolete too lol lmao

Wolfskid

1 year, 1 month ago

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Edited 1 year, 1 month ago by Owner

@ AsbieArts

maybe, I still think of innocent untill proven guilty and they risk their game getting out of their library if they actually get found out

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ Wolfskid

Highly doubt that would get them banned, but you do you! At no point I'm trying to convince anyone to change their minds, just stating my own opinion.

ArenConcordia

1 year, 1 month ago

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Edited 1 year, 1 month ago by Owner

Honestly, I like that we can have a rational discussion about it here instead of screeching at each other like twatter and FA lol

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ ArenConcordia

Honestly I didn't really post the journal to create a discussion, just stating why I won't work with the franchise haha!

I know there's a lot of drama on the twitters, as per usual, and I don't wanna involve myself with that, either~

SpoonFox

1 year, 1 month ago

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... And point on the game where you have seen AI usage? Just because one of their games was themed around AI Art (and was very stupid) doesn't mean this game was made using AI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoEMWDmk7fY

Continuing on... I noticed you said 3D AI Art generation exists... Do you know how BAD 3D AI art generation is? The meshes are nasty, the skeletons are awful, and if you thought 2D art's count the toes was bad... 3D AI is even worse, especially if you plan on actually animating it.

I am not saying AI Art is good. (I hate that it scrapes others' work). I am saying you're misplacing your hatred towards the game. You're also spreading misinformation about it using AI. So again, I'll ask... Show me the evidence AI was used in its creation. If you're talking about map generation, procedural generation has been a thing for years. This game was in development before the whole AI Art shitstorm even started.

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ SpoonFox

The design/concept phase for the monsters. That's it, that's all I've been saying, to everyone lmao

I am aware of how shite AI 3D gen is. I've stated several times that all I think is that it's very likely AI generation was used in the concept phase of the creation of the monsters.

I don't have proof besides a few red flags and gut feeling, hence why I'm not trying to convince anybody, just posting publically why /I/ won't draw Palworld content. There's been AI usage to generate "fake pokemon" since 2021, for the record.

SpoonFox

1 year, 1 month ago

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Edited 1 year, 1 month ago by Owner

@ AsbieArts

The design and concept phase wasn't made using AI, and they've been developing the game since before the whole AI art thing became a thing.

You're stating 'definitively' with your reaction that you believe it was made with AI art... Was Temtem made with AI too? They have a ton of suspicious pokemon-likes too. You're making accusations you cannot support, and rumor mongering something that honestly doesn't need it.

Palworld was started in 2019. So... Unless they have a time machine... Which we have previews of A LOT of the pals that look like fakemon during that time... Your argument doesn't hold up. I'm not trying to start hate, I'm not trying to bitch or anything. I want you to understand you might be misplacing your hatred for this thing because of rumor spreaders who hate the game. Always fact check. Always do your research. People lie on the internet. (I know unbelievable! Who would do that!)

There's many reasons to dislike this game, but misinformation being spread isn't one. That's all I'm saying. I hope you understand? I think you're overreacting over a rumor that's circulating, and it may hinder you more than aid you in life. *pat pat?*

EDIT: Also posting "I'd also appreciate content from said game to not be shared in my circles." is stifling your friends' enjoyment... They have to completely remove something they might like, over an assumption the game _MAY_ have been made using AI, with zero evidence... Just saying... :(

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ SpoonFox

" and so, seeing how highly likely it is for palworld's designs to have been made using AI art, I simply refuse to interact or invest my time or effort into that."

That's really all I have to say about this. There is simply no way to prove one way or the other unless you get insider info or the people working on it confirm it or deny it. I have no ill thoughts towards the game or those who play it. I simply don't want to associate with the franchise.

I just don't wanna draw it cuz there's a chance AI was used to design the creatures man, that's it. If that proves to be wrong in the future, I'll retract my statement, and we gucci. I'm not trying to hate campaign the game or the devs like the twitter retards.

This whole topic is just mentally draining, I'm not arguing for anything here, not trying to convince anyone, just stating why I don't wanna draw the fucking things.

SpoonFox

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

I do wonder... What would you do if you found out the newer pokemon were possibly developed with AI gen as inspirations?

And all I'm saying is that the whole 'It's possible' doesn't equate 'it is true'. There are many who are spreading misinformation. You reserve the right to not like something (I have my own nonos and taboos), but I'm saying it's better to give something the benefit of the doubt than automatically assume the worst. *pet pet* It'll mean less things on your negative list, things you could possibly enjoy in the moment. It's healthier that way. (And yes, the twitter idiots need to heck off with the whole death threats stuff and whatnot...)

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ SpoonFox

I'd definitely distance from that point onward, it's that simple.

I can say the same thing and say, "it's possible, doesn't mean it's false".
When it comes to AI I give no benefit of the doubt, sorry. If Pocket Pair did not already do games involving AI, or its CEO was an AI wacko, I'd absolutely be a bit more partial.

AI represents a genuine threat to my lifestyle, please understand that /this/ topic, is literally black or white with me. I'll survive without drawing palworld creatures, and everyone will be just fine without me drawing them.

SpoonFox

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

*shrugs* Find your facts, Asbie. Assumptions will only make problems. You're reacting to a rumor that was started by people who hate the game who know that they could weave a lie to make people like you hate the game. Keep that in mind, they're puppeteering their narrative on you.

There's nearly definitive proof it's not AI related, the time scale doesn't match up.

But I understand your passion, but don't let that passion burn you. Be safe, lad. *pat pat* Just don't let the idiots dictate what you should like and not like based on lies and rumors. Mew wasn't under that truck after all. :)

WhiteSky

1 year, 1 month ago

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So if I understand this situation correctly: you're saying that they might've used AI art for concept design? Like they might've used AI art to get inspiration from the generated images and modeled the creatures without AI in Blender by themselves just based on these AI images?

AsbieArts

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ WhiteSky

My assumption is they used AI generation to set up bases for these creatures, to then draw the concept art to turn into 3D models for the game.

WhiteSky

1 year, 1 month ago

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@ AsbieArts

Ah okay, I think I understand your view. They perhaps used AI for base ideas for their creatures but not for the actual game itself, right? With all these comments I got a bit confused since it was all over the place. xD Thanks for your clarification. :D

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