Inkbunny

Well, there is an easy solution to limit this. An extremely easy solution. Popular was created to showcase AS MANY ARTISTS AS POSSIBLE? Then, just select popular as "look at all images within 3 days, select those with same author and leave only most favorited one. If there is couple of images with same amount of favs, take one that uploaded later. Get 240 images with most views.". DONE, YOU SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF MINMAXING POPULARITY SECTION :D

VarraTheVap

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

Yeah that is true. It may hurt artists who do "batch uploads" (just once every few months) but as long as it's transparent how this filter works, I'd agree with it.
It's better long term than doing individual decisions at least.

Still I can't say that I agree with conducting such manipulation experiments here.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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In my opinion, artists should keep their galleries fresh and up to date. It is like gardening. You leave your garden for 3 months, you find it dead - that is pretty justified and fair. So, this should discourage batch imports and improve connection between artists and their communities.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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But if instead of such solution, you will just spray some water onto raging popular flame, then my job is to show how to ignite more of them.

VarraTheVap

1 year, 8 months ago

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Eh.. what you are saying here is your job is to be contrary and an ass?
Let's please don't bring that attitude to inkbunny.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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My job is to show the path I took and explain what happened afterwards. Everyone can take on this experience then! Anybody, who wants to learn something new, now will know how exactly. I spread the knowledge, whatever others like it or not :)

VarraTheVap

1 year, 8 months ago

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Well, you have lost me as a supporter/watcher, I fear.
Take care.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Don't be afraid. You will come back, eventually, that's for sure. I have many names, and many worlds. You know only one of them :)

AIFluffyMatrix

1 year, 8 months ago

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I very much dislike this attitude and experiment. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it needs to be done. It's disruptive to the systems and the users - and it's not even based in practicality like when an artists uploads or re-uploads their backlog. It's done with the goal of manipulating both systems and users and very much against the spirit of IB as it is. Getting the moderation team to intervene with the goal of engaging with you is not only the opposite of success, it's malicious. And to top it all off, since it's done with AI art, it also hurts the already fragile tolerance that the mod team and IB community as a whole has with AI directors.

All-in-all not a class act, and I hope the IB team takes further steps against you and this behavior.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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@ AIFluffyMatrix

Because it can be done, and is somewhat malicious, it should be patched. If it is not patched, it will be abused. Not by you? By anyone else. Anyone with absent enough morale. Anyone who wanted popularity and thought of my steps. They may not know me even, but they will do the same. And there will be more. Even more than I could think of. This experiment showed the vunerability in system, and I explained how to patch it, and I explained how to use it. I only provide knowledge to those, who are willing to listen, tho.

There is no disruption. You upload your backlog - perfect. You won't be punished by such actions, you just will have ONE picture in popular, that's all. That's fair for everyone. And I want for everyone to be equal and fair. Both artists, neuroartists, and comissioners. We deserve true equality. Thats why we spread every single bit of knowledge. About vunerabilities, abilities, and softwares.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	Because it can be done, and is somewhat malicious, it should be patched. If it is not patched, it will be abused.

This is not a healthy attitude. Whenever you increase safety and protection, you decrease trust and freedom. A healthy community and society as a whole are one where interactions are based on mutual trust, and reliance on persecution is minimal.

There's an old joke about a hacker in a restaurant.

Day ONE

A hacker walks into their favorite restaurant and discovers that the salt shaker on the table can be unscrewed, and one can pour anything into it. The hacker goes home and writes an angry letter to the manager of the restaurant: "I, meG@Duc, found a vulnerability in the salt shakers at your restaurant. An attacker can open them and pour poison inside! Take action immediately!"

Day TWO

Among other business letters, the manager requests for food deliveries and courier receipts, finds the notification letter, and shrugs: "Who could even come up with this nonsense?"

Day FIVE

The hacker comes into the restaurant and pours poison in all the salt shakers. Three hundred people die; the manager is dragged three months in courts to prove the absence of a crime. The Hacker writes a letter in the style of "Well, I told you!".

Day 96

The manager orders his staff to buy specially designed salt shakers with a combination lock. Visitors of the restaurant feel like they are missing something fundamental in the meaning of life.

Day 97

The Hacker discovers that the holes in the salt shakers pass salt in both directions. And not only salt, anything! He writes an angry letter to the manager after pissing in all the salt shakers. Three hundred people stop visiting the restaurant forever; thirty get admitted to the hospital with food poisoning. The hacker sends an SMS to the restaurant manager: "How are you doing?". The manager is dragged through courts for three months and is released on probation.

Day 188

The manager vows to no longer work in any food establishment and peacefully cut timber in Siberia. Engineers are working on a new one-way valve for a salt shaker. In the meantime, the waitresses withdraw all the old salt shakers and distribute the salt by hand.

Day 190

The Hacker steals a salt shaker from the restaurant and carefully studies the device at home. He writes an angry letter to the manager: "I, meG@Duc, stole the salt shaker, and I find this fact outrageous! Anyone can steal your salt shakers!" The previously fully sober manager goes home and drinks a bottle of vodka.

Day 193

The Hacker discovers that all the salt shakers in the restaurant are chained and nailed to the table. He arrives at a hacker conference and reports on his progress, getting a well-deserved reward for protecting society and consumers' interests. Fortunately, the manager never hears anything about it and will not die of alcohol poisoning for now.

Day 194

As part of a diabolical, genius elaborate operation, BLACKHAT hackers break into the restaurant and pour all the salt from the salt shakers in their pockets. The Hacker meG@Duc writes an indignant letter to the manager, alluding to the fact that there is no concern for the restaurant's visitors as any criminal can deprive honest people of salt instantly. A salt dispenser with a one-time authorization is just necessary!

Engineers work in sweat on a new salt shaker while waitresses hand out salt manually, again. The manager goes on vacation to the Seychelles and has dinner only in his room, avoiding any canteens, restaurants, and bars.

Day 200

Visitors of the restaurant find in horror that to pour salt, they must go to the waitress, show their passport and get a special 8-digit one-time code to the shaker. For pepper, they need to repeat the procedure.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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I know that joke. It is easely solveable by including 1 bag of 1g salt and 1 bag of 1g pepper when you hand out the tray with food. If someone needs more, they can ask more. Premise of a joke is to be joke.

Also, in the original joke, it wasn't "poison" >:D

---

We are currently in world of capitalism. Not socialism. Not communism. Capital, Money decides EVERYTHING (and I agree that it is not a healthy society at all). We are not friends, not comrades, not brothers - we are no one (or, rather, even competitors!) to each other, ready to tear each other apart if that will give us that sweet sweet money. For last DECADES I haven't heard of people who would voulantirelly return anything they find on the street. It is cultivated so much, that most of your decisions are pretty subconciuous. And in that world, everyone exploit everyone. No exception. If you won't, then your neighboor will.

Therefore... the best way of ensuring that everyone is equal, is to prohibit any possibility to exploit each other. And that should never be a manual work. Should never be a work of human, since all humans are born in capitalism, and their opinions are skewed and warped to their liking. It must be a work of algorithm. A program would never break given rules, and won't allow anyone to break them. Therefore... making Equality true. If Laws work for everyone equally, then it is good laws.

VarraTheVap

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

The attitude you have here is more of an anarchist because society does not mean ONLY the laws/rules you find in books or pages.
There's also the ever encompassing, unwritten rule: "don't be a dick".

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Back already? That was quickest 180 I've ever seen...

And, yeah. It is better that you see dick now, and prepare on the vision of a single one, than be overwhelmed by thousands tomorrow.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Your understanding of capitalism is based on Soviet-era caricatures of it. Even the most capitalistic countries like the US don't function like you describe. They're victims to the iron law of oligarchy like everybody else on the planet, but we aren't quite there yet.

I approve your techno-optimism, but sadly it's often a consequence of living in authoritarian regimes where "any other option is better than what we have now", so it's easy to see ML tools as the saviors of humanity. I do share some of your optimism, but I strongly believe that blind reliance on algorithms will get us nowhere. The humanity itself needs to evolve.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	easy to see ML tools as the saviors of humanity

ML? Damn, I'm talking about simple algorithms! You don't need ML to solve most problems in the world! All you need is an effective program that will calculate anything for you. Logistics, rations, worktime, etc. - by removing human factor from those you will always get near-perfect result. Most of human parlaments can be switched out with basic calculators without any loss in perfomance.

Humans... may evolve. But evolution requires a stimulus. I am that stimulus for IB. I may be hated for it, but any action that forces evolution is hated. I'm used to it.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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LMAO. Humans ran a massive experiment for many decades, testing what a "simple algorithm with simple goals" can achieve. They called it USSR. 🤣 I think the conclusions are pretty clear.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Well, USSR
1) Was the largest object on the maps
2) Had conqured cosmic space
3) Had created nuclear weapons WITHOUT testing them on Japan
4) Had quite brilliant scientists and high education levels
And other, pretty valuable achievements. Not without downsides, yet, without upsides USSR would become USA's (or China) colony quite fast, winch haven't happened.

Algorithms had worked, and for pretty long time to say the least. But then capitalism came. And instead of Atomic Heart, we got ourselves Monopoly. :)

Quite sad that greed rules over damn world.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	1) Was the largest object on the maps

And then fell apart. And then became Europe's China's gas station. And we'll see where it goes from there. Clearly not forward.

If anything, the British Empire was just as big at its peak.

"	2) Had conqured cosmic space

And then lost the cosmic race and couldn't get to the Moon. And whatever remains of its rocket industry is as good as dead now.

"	3) Had created nuclear weapons WITHOUT testing them on Japan

Testing on your own citizens is vastly superior. 😆

"	4) Had quite brilliant scientists and high education levels

And still can't compete in CPU markets, not to mention GPU. And lost it automotive industry.

Well, one good thing about USSR was pooping on everything religious and promoting science. Gender equality is on a very good level. Basics of city design are good.

However, we're ignoring one simple fact. USSR's "simple algorithm" failed. The country no longer exists. Whatever remains is in a very poor state on every single metric. It died under its own weight. (Unless you're a fan of conspiracy theories that external forces are the one and only reason of USSR's collapse.)

The fact that USSR could optimize its epic-scale projects to flex in front of the West is irrelevant when if it fails to survive. Epic-scale projects with infinite budgets do work well with this architecture. The problem is that everything else doesn't. And that's what history of USSR taught us.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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That's the reason I named everything in past time. When people driven by money got to power, they siphoned money from everywhere. Literally sold everything - every single piece, every single factory, every single culture. That's why everything broke down. When you have no support, no funding, you literally turn gold to iron. USSR was creating awesome cars (you may look for GAZ Pobeda brand cars). Now there is no funding, most of factories are sold, so there is next to nothing of car production. Scientists? They ran away from places that wont support them. You know current salary of Russian's teachers? Bare minimal. Of course there will be no brilliant scientists - teachers literally starving from day to day. Medical sector? Starved of resources. A lot of goverment doctors literally earn their salary in form of bribes. Everything was siphoned dry. There is no USSR meat here, only bones now, and those are also being gnawed pretty rapidly.

There is no longer an Idea that binds everyone together. With money came concepts of poor and rich. And with concepts of poor, came concepts of stealing. USSR was good society, until greed destroyed it. USSR was build on trust you so much love. I know that there was a vending machines, that had just a single glass cup in it. Person would go to machine, insert a coin, grab a cup, wash it, put it under dispencer, press a button, drink a cup of soda, and then RETURN CUP TO ITS PLACE. It wasn't chained or anything, it was just there, and nobody took it. But it was USSR. Now it is russia. That cup would be stolen within 10 minutes of opening this damn dispencer. Because greed. Because capital. Because there is no one to teach of concepts of good and evil. Remember, teachers struggling to even keep themselves fed with china grown rice and half-poisoned tap water (in USSR times you could safely drink tap water - it was quite clean from minerals and metals, thanks to local refineries - now they don't work anymore).

Algorithm was, in fact, far from perfect. Because it allowed to be exploited. Because it allowed to select a greedy president, who, instead of upgrading the algorithm, siphoned everything from it. And it only went downhill from there. Gone are those 'happy' days. Gone are USSR. Now there is only scavengers and vultures, trying to tear each other apart for capitals.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	And then lost the cosmic race and couldn't get to the Moon. And whatever remains of its rocket industry is as good as dead now.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Space-Launches-by-C...

Sorry. While you are right about 'whatever remains of industry' (it is trash now), in the USSR times, it was clearly superior. But, as you may know, 'a history is written by the victors'. Perhaps you grown up in place that taught you other knowledge. Perhaps... fabricated. 'Victory rights' and so on.

"	Testing on your own citizens is vastly superior.

*shakes head* Simply look on distribution of cities in USSR. There is a lot of space where explosion won't even be noticed by any citizen at all. We talking hundreds of kilometers of unoccupied land. Not to mention, people aren't that stupid to explode Tsar-Bomb anywhere at all. USSR did had brilliant minds after all, and they all were good in theoretics, winch allowed them to skip practical usage most of the times.

"	4) Had quite brilliant scientists and high education levels

"	And still can't compete in CPU markets, not to mention GPU. And lost it automotive industry.

Well, as I said, all resources were suck dry. USSR engineers prioritized quality over quantity. Thats why you still can see a perfectly functional refrigirators or radio from USSR, while your iPhone 14 will slow down and break next year, exactly when iPhone 15 will come out... not to mention a subscription for a heated seats on Tesla :)

"	Well, one good thing about USSR was pooping on everything religious and promoting science. Gender equality is on a very good level. Basics of city design are good.

Nah. One of cities literally was built on SWAMP (look Saint Petersburg). And others have their problems, and a lot of them. But mostly because of greedy city mayors, corrupted to the core.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

An interesting reaction from admins. I expected either no reaction or a ban for a week, but the solution they chose is clearly much smarter. 😁

What's the status of hidden submissions? Is it their permanent state now or are they going back after 3 days?

I wonder whether this experiment will trigger an update to the Popular page implementation, or it isn't much of a hassle to handle other "scientists" individually. 😁

"	The experiment was SO SUCESSFUL, that moderation team was forced to hide every single of those images! just for me to not show in POPULAR! That is what I call GREAT SUCCESS. I literally reached so much potential that I was forced to hide!

If the experiment was checking the math, then it was a success, I guess.

If it was checking reaction of admins, then it's a massive success. 😆

If it was gaining popularity, then not so much. Staying under the radar remains an important aspect of farming popularity.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	What's the status of hidden submissions? Is it their permanent state now or are they going back after 3 days?

Probably locked for 3 days. Dunno otherwise.

"	I wonder whether this experiment will trigger an update to the Popular page implementation, or it isn't much of a hassle to handle other "scientists" individually. 😁

I honestly hope for update. Everyone deserves to be equal, but current system pushes inequality from more popular artists. If anyone with 5k watchers throws 10-20 images as a batch, they ALL go to popular and this artist will inevitably snowball even more, further increasing distance between 'the king' and 'the peasants'. Same thing about AI artists. I can easely spot 2-5 submissions hogged exclusively by single Neuroartists. Also, you are not exception (if you post every day, you hog ~3 submission slots easely), and neither are any else.

"	If the experiment was checking the math, then it was a success, I guess.

Can't argue about math, that's for sure. :)
Although, did hoped for much more.

"	If it was checking reaction of admins, then it's a massive success. 😆

Damn true, reaction was triggered, and in less than 1 day, massive improvement over your words! :)

"	If it was gaining popularity, then not so much. Staying under the radar remains an important aspect of farming popularity.

Well... I would argue. I reaped ~1000 Favorites. Even if a single person faved all 40 images, that would mean that 25 persons got their Favorites FULL of my images, literally working as walking banners/advertisers. Also, reaped 100 Watchers. Hoped for more, of course, but 100 in a day is not a small amount, and that was only 13 images in popular. What would be with more? 20? 25? Who knows, admins shot me down quite early :)

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

I wouldn't call 2-3 submissions hogging the space. The reason obviously is that the Popular page, be design, heavily incentivizes NEVER losing a spot (or rather, punishes for losing the only spot). If one is below a certain threshold of active watchers, getting the first submission to the Popular page is 5x harder than getting a second one.

There needs to be a better tool to explore new artists, I think. The Popular page violates the single-responsibility principle and functions as a promotion for rising artists, as catch-up mechanism for people who don't visit InkBunny daily, as a way to attract new InkBunny users with the best art etc. I'd rather have dedicated sections for each function. If we have separate sections for text and audio submissions (because they get buried by image submissions), then surely we can have more sections.

"	I reaped ~1000 Favorites.

I've never considered favorites a sign of success. I don't think they matter in the long run. They do attract views, but it's short-lived. Even people who fave 10 images in a row will fave another 10 in a minute.

I rather pay attention to the cases when the view-to-fav ratio significantly diverges from the typical 10:1 number. When comparing similar submissions, it's a sign of whether I could deliver a high-quality result.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	I wouldn't call 2-3 submissions hogging the space.

Yeah. Thats how you turn 240 artists in popular into 80. A half of school into just 3 classrooms. Or less - some won't call 5 submissions as 'hogging' :)

"	then surely we can have more sections

A-a-a-are you su-u-u-u-ure you want to scroll your phone/screen down to look at those sections? We are in capitalism. Most of people here are lazy consumers. They don't make more swipes on screen than one. So whatever they see, is final for most of them. There won't be any real reach to new 'rising stars' popular or 'very favorited' populars.

"	I've never considered favorites a sign of success.

Well, technically, yes, there are people who favorites simply everything. But, some are not. And if those 'some' are having high watcher count, it does act like ADS. Sometimes... even better ads than Popular. You not only see your watched artists, but you share what it loves, too. So, even if we talking about 10 Favs = 1 Watch, then we are at ~100 watches equivalent. Probably. I never overanalyze tho, so could missed real number.

"	I rather pay attention to the cases when the view-to-fav ratio significantly diverges from the typical 10:1 number.

1 to 6, baby-y-y-y-y :)
Although, they aren't that popular. SFWs doesn't tickle that sweet sweet serotonine.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

"	Yeah. Thats how you turn 240 artists in popular into 80.

It doesn't work like this as long as people with 2-3 submissions are a tiny minority. It can become an issue if this becomes the norm (thanks to AI).

"	A-a-a-are you su-u-u-u-ure you want to scroll your phone/screen down to look at those sections?

1. Randomize order of sections.
2. Let users choose sections and order.
3. Have separate order for unregistered visitors.
4. There're still a lot of desktop users.

I want quadruple-row pure explore section, with an ability to kick viewed artists out of that list permanently or for a set period — that's my dream functionality. 🙃

"	1 to 6, baby-y-y-y-y :)

1:10 is typical for my (and your) non-extreme NSFW image submissions during the first week. My current data on SFW, stories and other types of content is missing or highly inconsistent.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	It can become an issue if this becomes the norm (thanks to AI).

It will. Just search for a ai_generated tag and count new persons. Especially ones like AIFluffyMatrix, who are 8 days old. This is capitalism. It WILL become norm. Quickly. I also teach ones who then creates stuff like this. That's also contributing to amount of people.

"	I want quadruple-row pure explore section, with an ability to kick viewed artists out of that list permanently or for a set period — that's my dream functionality.

Well, that sounds nice, but it is still a simple Popular. Just with a knack for 'removing viewed artists' winch also requires for a buffer/cache, winch will drastically improve server costs. Can't do that this easy. It would be simplier to simply remove restriction for views - take not first 4 pages, but ANYTHING/SINGLE_ARTIST from past 3 days. It then would include unpopular things.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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I don't want "everything". My user submission blacklist already contains hundreds of users, and the number is so low only because the variety of my searches is low. 🙃 This doesn't scale.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

"	When people driven by money got to power, they siphoned money from everywhere.

Yes. And where were these people born? In USSR. Who taught these people their values? People of USSR. Who gave these people knowledge? Teachers of USSR.

People who "siphoned money" are the very product of USSR. USSR designed and created people who destroyed it. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.

"	GAZ Pobeda

Nice try. Now let's discuss VAZ. You know, the decade old Italian cars which people actually used, not saw on the pictures.

"	With money came concepts of poor and rich.

Nice try. In USSR, everyone was poor. With the collapse of the country, everyone became poorer, but not because of capitalism, it was because USSR killed itself and ate its own remains.

"	drink a cup of soda, and then RETURN CUP TO ITS PLACE

If everybody in modern Russia is a robber, "unlike in holy USSR", how do you explain the existence of self-checkout machines? By your logic, it must be impossible because everyone will be stealing.

By the way, the level of trust you praise is the norm in Europe (well, the good parts of it).

Overall, you conveniently ignore the problem in the design of the Soviet regime itself. You ignore the caste system. You only pick random successes and ignore the big picture.

"	While you are right about 'whatever remains of industry' (it is trash now), in the USSR times, it was clearly superior.

Extensively (numbers), yes, intensively (quality), no. Define "superior".

To this day, the US remains the only country to step on the Moon. Because the USSR got German blueprints, while the US got Wernher von Braun.

"	Thats why you still can see a perfectly functional refrigirators or radio from USSR, while your iPhone 14 will slow down and break next year

Apple is well-known for anti-consumer practices.

Ancient Western devices worked for decades too. Sadly, the scientists have discovered that people are idiots and will gladly eat shit.

"	One of cities literally was built on SWAMP (look Saint Petersburg).

Yes. And people build skyscrapers in desert. All you need for this is a lot of money and a small peepee.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	Yes. And where were these people born? In USSR. Who taught these people their values? People of USSR. Who gave these people knowledge? Teachers of USSR. People who "siphoned money" are the very product of USSR. USSR designed and created people who destroyed it. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.

Wouldn't agree. You see, when you are in power, you were able to LEAVE USSR. For example, into GDR (Germany). And once you had left the system, it had not full control over you... therefore, it stopped to be 'product of USSR'. And then, perhaps, natural envy, perhaps, anything else. But once you are out of the system, you are out of the system.

"	Nice try. Now let's discuss VAZ. You know, the decade old Italian cars which people actually used, not saw on the pictures.

Buckets with bolts. Old, rusty, and breaking every 100kms. However, parts for them was incredibly common, and pretty much every male knew how to repair their cars (yeah, problem birthed solution, so most of USSR mans was able to fix their own problems). Unlike today. If something breaks... repairs cost as half of the car. :v

"	Nice try. In USSR, everyone was poor. With the collapse of the country, everyone became poorer, but not because of capitalism, it was because USSR killed itself and ate its own remains.

When everybody is poor, nobody is poor. Poor becomes new normal. But people was, somehow, happy at their state, despite being poor. They helped each other. There was a good part of literal goods trading - I give you milk and butter, you give me bread. They had best neighboor relationships there was on the planet, and were able to sleep with their doors open. And everybody had their share. It wasn't much, but it was shared. Common. Accessible. Sometimes. People wasn't getting salaries - they took it as a product - and then traded it for other goods. Someone traded skills. Someone traded parts. But they thrived, even in being poor. And, yes, when country collapsed, everything that was 'shared' became unavailable - shared things were grabbed by a single person or single group. Therefore it began to be 'everyone for themselves'. Neighboorhoods fell apart, and everyone started to copy their new rulers. Capitalistic rulers.

"	If everybody in modern Russia is a robber, "unlike in holy USSR", how do you explain the existence of self-checkout machines? By your logic, it must be impossible because everyone will be stealing.

USSR wasn't holy by any means. But someone wrote all those denunciations, after all. Whatever it was, it was working, and it worked well.
And, yes. EVERYONE steals at self-checkout machines. They can buy oranges by the price of apples. Or simply put things in pockets. Doesn't matter who - young, old, mature - pretty much everyone. For a lot of people this is somehow fine. However, there is a convinient countermeasures to stealing. Like... 'increase all prices on commonly stolen products so stolen things won't count as a loss'. And other people, who, in turn, are somewhat more honest, pay for those, who steal. That is how it works.

"	By the way, the level of trust you praise is the norm in Europe (well, the good parts of it).

Should we compare underground activity of all countries, especially Europe? Although, I don't believe that there will be real truthful data, tho. Nobody wants to admit high criminal rates, even if there is one.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

"	Overall, you conveniently ignore the problem in the design of the Soviet regime itself. You ignore the caste system. You only pick random successes and ignore the big picture.

Never said it was perfect. But it worked. And it worked really well. You know, that with every radio you buy in USSR, they would give you a goddamned circut diagram so you can repair that one yourself. Not to mention that prices was literally stamped on the products themselves. Most of the young people in USSR was one of the best engineers there was. They literally was repurposing cassette players to a readers for a Spectrum computers.

Regime was bloody. But it worked. Hard times produced best people there is. Those people was poor, and most of them were literally shot if they performed bad, yet USSR got records on olympics, had impressive amount of materials, was competing for manifacture of pretty much anything. And for 'random successes' there was a lot, to be noticed. So many, that it literally survived period called, no more no less, Cold War. USSR survived and literally stopped Germany during WWII. Tho... tomorrow dummies may scream that 'they can repeat'. Nah. They are just couch warriors. They can't do shit. Thats how low everything went.

"	Extensively (numbers), yes, intensively (quality), no. Define "superior".

Are you sure?
Superior is both by numbers and quality. Especially when it comes to engines.

"	To this day, the US remains the only country to step on the Moon. Because the USSR got German blueprints, while the US got Wernher von Braun.

Could you please explain why Luna-9 in Wikipedia is dated earlier than Surveyor 1?
Can't argue with first step on the moon. But... why? Like, a step just for having a step? There is rovers that can deliver samples from moon, it doesn't need to risk a human life. USSR, however bloody it was, valued bright minds, and won't send anyone good out here. Isn't that simply logical?

"	Apple is well-known for anti-consumer practices. Ancient Western devices worked for decades too. Sadly, the scientists have discovered that people are idiots and will gladly eat shit.

Welp... and so did Russian ones. And Ukrainian. And Belarus. And pretty much everyone these days. Primarly because of lack of education. Nobody can be qualified engineers these days. Except for china. China somehow making more quality products than anything else :v

"	Yes. And people build skyscrapers in desert. All you need for this is a lot of money and a small peepee.

Well... one day, every drop of black gold will dry out. Then, who knows how everything will change... again.

---

Damn, never had that much fun during conversations in ages. Can you keep up?

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Okay, so all corrupt bureaucrats were corrupted by evil capitalism, and the USSR is completely unrelated. 🤣

If you believe something as ridiculous as this, the discussion becomes pointless because you ignore the reality and prefer relying on your imagination. It's clear at this point that you've never lived in the USSR and all your knowledge comes from Soviet and Russian films which worship the Soviet era.

"	When everybody is poor, nobody is poor. Poor becomes new normal. But people was, somehow, happy at their state, despite being poor.

Keeping people poor and uninterested is the basis of authoritarian regimes like late USSR and modern Russia. Technically, lower income difference decreases crime level, but when done to this level, it also removes most of the incentives.

"	Should we compare underground activity of all countries, especially Europe?

I'm not talking about illegal activity. I'm talking about the level of trust between people which doesn't exist in post-Sovet territories.

"	Are you sure? Superior is both by numbers and quality. Especially when it comes to engines.

Eww, infographics. Let's just see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars
Successes:
1964 US flyby (FIRST)
1969 US flyby
1969 US flyby
1971 US orbit (FIRST)
1971 SU orbit + crash on surface — 2 weeks late 😆
1971 SU orbit + 110 seconds on surface (FIRST)
1973 SU orbit
1973 SU flyby
1973 SU flyby
1975 US orbit + landing (FIRST)
1975 US orbit + landing
1996 US orbit
1996 US orbit
1996 US landing + rover (FIRST)
...US, US, US, US...
2013 India orbit
...US, US, US, still operational after 15 years...
2016 RU orbit — the one and only
...China, UAE...

What was your point again? 😆

"	Can't argue with first step on the moon. But... why? Like, a step just for having a step?

Yes, because it is the ultimate flex of the US on the USSR. To this day, the US remains the only country on the planet who achieved this.

The whole cosmic race was never about science. Science just happened to benefit from the Cold War and never-ending flexing with unlimited budgets. No need to pretend here. 😁

"	Primarly because of lack of education.

LOL, no. The technology is there. The engineers are good. But the ever-growing power of oligarchies allow anti-consumer practices to be successful.

"	Well... one day, every drop of black gold will dry out. Then, who knows how everything will change... again.

Peak oil has been promised for many decades at this point. One thing is clear, there's enough oil for the remainder of my lifetime. 😆

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Well... Technically speaking, I was born in exact year USSR crumbled - 1996. My first year of life was in dying USSR. Lived in Russia since. Why, do you think, I want to get out of here and know a lot about this damned place? I may not lived in EXACT USSR, and my grades on History may not be an exact As, yet I am consiquous for 5 to 8 years just after moment it fell apart. I was poor too. Thats why I remember my neighboors and their attitude, thats why I remember how my mother literally was trading paper for a chicken and how we bred chicks on our balcony. Survived somehow. Still have pretty warm memories about that time. Also, couldn't remember films from 199X and 200X. I preferred cartoons these days xD (also knew how to fix old TV... new ones with OLEDs are real pain in the ass tho.)

"	Keeping people poor and uninterested is the basis of authoritarian regimes like late USSR and modern Russia. Technically, lower income difference decreases crime level, but when done to this level, it also removes most of the incentives.

Well, there was 'immient death incentive', both from bullet or from damned hunger. Unemployment rates were close to 0%, tho. It was harsh, yet worked magically. Actually our chicken farm on balcony was somewhat illegal. We did it anyway, as any other alternative would be simply starving.

"	I'm not talking about illegal activity. I'm talking about the level of trust between people which doesn't exist in post-Sovet territories.

And I'm afraid, it doesn't exist anywhere. I have an Ukranian aunt, who escaped to Portugal. She does say that most of the people leave cars with windows open. Yet she also admits that people locking their flats and houses when they leave, or tonight. This may simply say that they have working police forces that can easely track down cars, so it is simply non-profitable to steal them, since punishment will be much higher than reward. However, if level of trust was indeed high, people won't bother to even close their doors, as I think. So it is not about level of trust. It is more about level of security... winch in Russia is so damn corrupted that you have more problems calling police than not D:

"	Eww, infographics. Let's just see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars

Meh. Guess I kinda lost that one. Losing my touch already. Or sight. Or our history books was lying. Or everything at the same time.

"	Yes, because it is the ultimate flex of the US on the USSR. To this day, the US remains the only country on the planet who achieved this.

...I kinda dislike this thing, tho. Not the flex, it was pretty good, however dangerous and stupid it was. Other thing. Today we have space station, where people are international and pretty much LIVING in space. And for some reason, nobody tries to make a station on the moon, while US claims the first step and other countries claim to successfully join cosmic launches. Like... why, then? Moon would be pretty interesting thing to live on, it even have some gravity, so why everyone stopped with a single step? Couldn't understand then. Colonization of moon would be extremely profitable, especially if there IS something deep underground, like platinum or valuable other metals. Not like anyone threw a huge bore into moon's surface.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	LOL, no. The technology is there. The engineers are good. But the ever-growing power of oligarchies allow anti-consumer practices to be successful.

Nope. GOOD engineers are leaving. Guess why? Correct, America pays a lot of green bucks for their skills. :D
...actually this is the reason why I'm trying to leave too. But to leave, I somehow need to pass IELTS. And for that I need to freely speak on English. Winch I do, while arguing with you, even knowing that I can, and probably will, lose on some topics. The longer I type and read, the easier it would be in the future :)

By the way, goverment factories (the ones that somehow left intact) also have minimal salary. Just bare minimum to have for rent and food.

"	Peak oil has been promised for many decades at this point. One thing is clear, there's enough oil for the remainder of my lifetime. 😆

Don't say such things, as they may come true in unexpected ways. What if your lifetime is 2 years? While technically your words will be true, it would be pretty devastating to planet this way D:

ThumpyBunny

1 year, 8 months ago

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Shit man. I really loved a few of those images and looks like they're gone now? I tried saving them, but apparently I didn't.
Do you have an image dump somewhere of the ones that got hidden?

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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@ ThumpyBunny

Well, there is two paths.

Path 1: Images were locked temporarily. If so, they should all appear back in 2 to 3 days.
Path 2: Images were locked forever. If so... I'll start a new topic somewhere else, like pregchan or any other thing like Telegram channel, and begin to massively upload here, with much more details on replication.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

"	Still have pretty warm memories about that time.

It's childhood. Unless one has to become an adult at the age of 7, people tend to have some fond memories.

"	And I'm afraid, it doesn't exist anywhere.

It was getting better. Very slowly. Before the war, that is. War ruined everything for 20 years to come.

"	So it is not about level of trust. It is more about level of security...

Trust is not binary, it's a spectrum. People in the EU measurably trust others more than people in Ex-USSR. Anecdotes are irrelevant when there're numerous polls providing data from hundreds of countries spanning decades.

Police isn't just "better". Trusting policemen to not abuse their power comes with the package.

Lack of trust comes with a heavy tax. You pay more to police, to lawyers, to everyone else. And the lower the trust, the worse it gets, the higher the price. Eventually you pay gangsters for protection and buy your own guns.

"	And for some reason, nobody tries to make a station on the moon. Colonization of moon would be extremely profitable, especially if there IS something deep underground, like platinum or valuable other metals.

It's anything but profitable. There's no financially viable way to transport resources from Moon. Rockets are costly, the lift is science fiction.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	It's childhood. Unless one has to become an adult at the age of 7, people tend to have some fond memories.

Literally ANY other memory becomes fond when you are diagnosed with Myocarditis. :v

"	It was getting better. Very slowly. Before the war, that is. War ruined everything for 20 years to come.

Even before Situation 2022, and even before Corona-2020, there was... no significant trust. Like cold war never ended for sure. And now it got so much worse, it's simply frightening.

"	It's anything but profitable. There's no financially viable way to transport resources from Moon. Rockets are costly, the lift is science fiction.

A-a-and people prefer to lay in couches and drink beer. In my childhood literally every single boy wanted to be a cosmonaut. Now everyone is either in puddle of own vomit due to alcohol poisoning, or dying at low-wage jobs :v

When there was Idea, there was no reason to spare resources to advance mankind forward. For now, I think, only China still have some semblance of launching Moon colony for now (Musk is currently busy playing with his twitter D:). And resources... There is a lot of stuff that Earth have in little amounts. Probably something like platinum, plutonium, osmium, californium, and so on. And moon is just a huge chunk that was never truly inspected deep under (well, oceans wasn't inspected as well, but who cares about those anyway). It may even have even more complex isotopes. Those alone may cost millions per gram, and those alone may revolutionize rocketbuilding itself. A compact nuclear reactors that is capable of working in space, for example, using tiny amounts of specific isotopes.

...but of course all those isotopes would be used to create nuclear weaponry. People are stupid enough to play their wars.

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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"	Even before Situation 2022, and even before Corona-2020, there was... no significant trust.

The progress is slow. It's hard to measure day-to-day.

"	Now everyone is either in puddle of own vomit due to alcohol poisoning, or dying at low-wage jobs :v

Well, welcome to reality. 😁 There's a reason midlife crisis exists. 😆

Not all is lost. We may actually get to AGI not just within our lifetimes, but within the next 5 years.

Maybe AI is what we need to get thermonuclear fusion power station from the permanent "will be ready within the next 20 years" state to "only 10 years left". 🤣

EthanSeville

1 year, 8 months ago

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make em public again they where good

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

@ EthanSeville

Ask that from the moderation team (https://i.ibb.co/M6gFLLc/x.png), it them who are hidden/locked those :)
If they won't auto-unlock within 2 to 3 days, I'll just provide links on how to get those and much much more in the other places.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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However, if you are in for a kinky/preggo stuff - there is people who voulantirelly uploads my works to a pregchan. I also added ones that were missing, from my 40-pack, here. Here's the link: https://pregchan.com/f/res/1451.html#5027

For others... well, if you can provide me with links to an open imageboards, I'll gladly upload images here.

EthanSeville

1 year, 8 months ago

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Ah I see they probs count it as spam

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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@ EthanSeville

and I count it as 'batch upload'. But for some reason, artists can do batch uploads, and neuroartists cant. Where is the god damn equality?!

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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I wouldn't expect submissions to "auto unlock". You should contact moderators after 3 days, I think.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Welp, the problem is - HOW? Because I sent them a question on how much is an 'excessive use of AI', and they are damn silent about that. HEY, I USED BATCH UPLOAD FUNCTION, GUYS, WTF IS THIS UNEQUALITY, HUH!?

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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Arguing with moderators is pointless. If you want to get your images back after 3 days, you need to ask for exactly that, not try to prove something.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Too bad I'm not native American. Would be already shaking my lawyer awake xD... But I'm not. Honestly, I'm worse. Way worse. I'm that one 'quiet kid', I'm afraid.

*shakes head*

Well, question still stands. HOW to get to them? I could write PMs to pretty much every single person in Information section, but then what?

AutoSnep

1 year, 8 months ago

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There's a "Support Tickets" link in the footer. Ask there to unlock your submissions after 3 days (and DON'T write anything else).

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Welp, I'll try. 3 days finishes today 16:46 CEST, so I'll send ticket ~this time.

But, honestly, it doesn't even matter. They even can stay locked, or even deleted, whatever. Main thing is the Message. If this one won't be read, then it is just a matter of time until everyone else will show it too. You have 5 images in Popular. AIFM have 4. New account of StableDefission have 3 or 4. And so on, and so on. It is just a matter of time until magical number of 40 images will be surpassed, meaning that in 90% of cases your AI images will be shown in Popular. And 40 is not a stopping point, as there will be much more new AI artists, who, in turn, will make even more Popular images, winch, in turn, will become 60, 80, 120 images... And what had admins proposed? INCREASE NUMBER OF POPULAR IMAGES. Can you imagine such things? :v

Hey, our food getting moldy, we need to do something with it!
- Nah, just throw another 240 apples in food storage. It will lower mold percent.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 8 months ago by Owner

Currently there is ~25 images in Popular, and possibility for at least 80 to go in popular. (search: tag ai_generated, limit 3 days, sort by views), separate amount after 270 views and before
...at least I start to see different styles of generations. It warms my heart.

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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@ EthanSeville

They are now public again! :)

cathrinepanda

1 year, 8 months ago

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been loving what you been posting and thanks for sharing the info.. it is a fun hobby to do

ProjectSoulstealer

1 year, 8 months ago

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@ cathrinepanda

Yeah. I really, really believe that sharing knowledge is the real key to universal evolution. However, current world is consumed by greed, and if some piece of knowledge can be turned to profits, then nobody will share it (logically, no one wants competitors). I want to break that order, by actually giving everyone instructions for free. The more neuroartists there are, the better. More variety, more points of view, more experiments. And ppl like you are one straws that I still can count on, that still inspires me to the very core :)

cathrinepanda

1 year, 8 months ago

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