Tree of Life - Book 0 pg. 64. by Zummeng < Submission | Inkbunny, the Furry Art Community

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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It's not a comfortable truth, but there it is. What he wants means more than family tradition and honor; something his own family failed to understand. I wish it didn't hurt so bad, he deserves better. <:(

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ PozPuppeh

Clearly articulating this back then would have helped a lot, mainly cause it would have been directed at the parents, aka hey guys, he would have passed was it not for you two.
Instead "you can try next year and dont mind being disowned in the process lol. See ya around kid".

whiskeyfur

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

@ Labyrias

Some lessons can only be learned the hard way, and in this case.. mere words would not be enough to expose his parents for what they were.

His parents only ever saw a guardian.. they never saw their child and it took him being denied that to let him actually SEE them for what they are.

His parents had the chance to take a step back and realize what they did to their kid.

They failed.

I wouldn't pin this on her or the child. I would pin this one on his parents and now for him to grow, he has to separate from them... and I personally wouldn't mind if she also gave them a piece of her mind about their child rearing habits. (But I don't think she rolls this way... ah well.)

SenGrisane

2 years, 10 months ago

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Free will is overrated.

I am intrigued by the chaos. Is it like a malicious force like in Zelda? Or just aggressive races/creatures?

RaShCl

2 years, 10 months ago

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he can try again next year, that's easy to say for her, her parents were probably not as bad as his where so he is right she took everything away from him.
I would have stabbed her in the back for what she did, make her feel some pain like he has now.

To be honest, at first, I thought she was great, but now, I know she is not, she should have intervened.
this is the second time so far as I saw in this comic, there was also that other character that was under the influence of those other thieves, there she also talked sweet, but should have interveined.

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ RaShCl

She can't make anyone do anything. That would remove the entire idea of free will, making choices for oneself.

I would assume that being a guardian means having enough self-determination to make choices, being strong enough to make decisions and live with the consequences. It would be pretty irresponsible for her to select guardians who constantly seek guidance in life for things they should know are right or wrong.

What's the point in telling people "I know you are strong enough to do the right thing and get through this," if she follows that up by taking away their problems? That would -prevent- them from experiencing personal growth.

AtomicBurn

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ RaShCl

Good lord dude, that makes you sound horrible. What exactly did she do to deserve a literal knife in the back? She really can't force anybody to do anything if "free will" is what is aimed for. Also, how can she intervene in something she doesn't know has happened? As far as i've read in this, she isn't all seeing. Perceptive yes, but not all knowing. The parents are to blame for their own actions, not her. If anybody deserves an ass kicking it would be them. Neglect is a horrible thing.

As for the thief, i would say she did intervene in that one. Just not how you seem to have wanted. She put the seed in his ear, gave him the hope that he could CHOOSE to be something better. Free will seems to be a fairly important part of this.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

@ AtomicBurn

At one point or another you have to calculate in that the writer maybe didnt execute the scene perfectly.
Im saying this cause you are missing the point. The question is not whether or not she could have forced, coerced or pushed the guy towards a certain direction (which btw she totally did by not accepting him and now telling him a literal criteria to aim for).

The actual problem is that judging by her own text, she was aware of what the end result of declining him would be, and for that, she is every single bit responsible.
She never said why he was declined, she never told the parents that it was basically because of them and that their next offspring will probably fail too for the very same reason. She basically denied everyone the chance to reflect, learn and grow, instead just curb stomped the lil guy with a "lul declined. try again", made their parents believe that he is a failed product, then moved on.

No matter how you twist and turn this, there is a HUGE responsibility on her shoulder for this outcome.
You are the jury for the test, but you also withhold the requirements based on which you fail people? Then just let the contestants and parents guess?
I mean dude... duuuude... are you honestly enjoying to instigate child abuse or something...? Why would you do this?

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

You're really stretching here just to be dissatisfied, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ PozPuppeh

Who said im dissatisfied?
Im just talking about the presented problem like everybody else, and i dont think stretching/making assumptions applies when one can explain their logic. There is no stretching or assumption involved with the notion that she didnt explain her position or reasoning back then, which directly has lead to this scenario.

*shrug*
but if you take personal offense to what i have said then forget it. It doesnt matter.

snowdream

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ RaShCl

This post really makes me feel sad.

Not only for the uncomfortable suggestion that she deserves *death* for telling a little boy "Try again next year".. but also just...

Gosh.

Life is so complicated. You can't help everyone, make everyone happy.  there is no "right thing" to do.  A man tries to rob another man.  You stop it.  the victim says the thief should be punished, but the thief was trying to feed his family.  Do you punish him? or feed his family? Either way, someone feels unhappy.  Perhaps you feed the family, but also punish the thief?  That's not fair to the family, who are innocent.  perhaps you force the thief to work for the victim, but then that's slavery.  Even if there's pay, will the victim be a fair boss, or resentful?  So perhaps you just feed the thief and say "no harm done' to the victim.  The thief's family then  survives.  but for how long?  How long do you feed them?  how long do you take care of them?  Why only THEM and not the well behaved family starving over there?  What about that homeless person?

It's so hard to find the right answer, because there often isn't one.

Or... to look at it another way...

You can carry a toddler around all the time and they'll get where you want them to go.  But sometimes you have to let them waddle around and try to climb the stairs on their own, to fall and bump their bottoms, and pick themselves up to try again.  Otherwise they won't learn to try, and will just expect to be carried always.

Tristan wasn't in a dire situation.  She planted a seed.  It's time to let it grow.  Gosh, Tristan hurts me, because I recognize part of my life there:  I have a friend who needs to realize that they need to walk away from a bad situation.  All I can do is tell them that they deserve respect and safety, and that they're not getting that.  They have to come to the decision to walk away on their own.  I can't make that choice for them, y'know?

And this lil guy... Nigel.  She wasn't wrong.  Gosh, College was full of people like that.  trying to please their parents, only to end up  burning out because this was their parent's dream, not their own.  And, how would she have known that his parents--those who are supposed to love him unconditionally, and had never indicated that this was a possibility--would react this way.  to shun him for no reason except that he was told "next year." and "nearly perfect" ...

what should she have done?
Took him anyway, only for him to lose his will after realizing that this was his parent's dream for him, not his own?
Yelled at the parents for actions they hadn't performed?
Taken him away, but kept him waiting for another year?  Sounds like kidnapping.

You can't judge people off of what you think they might do.. only what they've done.

it's just.... sad, y'know?

Lnarra214

2 years, 10 months ago

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She's not wrong. but I think her lesson isn't aimed at the right person here.

furwerkstudio

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Lnarra214

Ehh, problem is some people are so encoded with tradition, arrogance and status that their literal deity telling them it is wrong wouldn't shake them.

Lnarra214

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ furwerkstudio

probably true, but I still think the tree should have intervened if she saw this happening.

whiskeyfur

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

@ Lnarra214

And do what? Free will being what it is... to resort to any method what so ever to try and change their minds is counter to that very idea of free will.

Free will is not conditional on someone else's approval.

Now, does the kid need guidance, yes... if he asks for it. But until he does he's not open to the idea.

Lensbrek

2 years, 10 months ago

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Eh, shank her.

PervyNerd84

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Lensbrek

Like that will fix the situation, then his parents will truly condemn him, and everyone else who worships the Tree will call him a heretic. He will literally make his life worse and be branded a truly bad guy, and oh yes HE WILL MAKE TWO OTHER CHILDREN PARENTLESS AND HOMELESS!!!!

RokukeShiba

2 years, 10 months ago

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Easy to say tree lady, im homeless

cesarin

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ RokukeShiba

"	RokukeShiba wrote:
	Easy to say tree lady, im homeless

This!
I would even more pissed if the lady that indirectly caused my parents to forget about me.. suddenly told me to "go back home" when there is no home to return to.

RokukeShiba

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ cesarin

makes you want to go full Kratos.

PervyNerd84

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ cesarin

However, it's entirely on the parents for their reaction. Parents who gave a DAMN about their kid actually cared for his future, wouldn't shun him as Nigel's parents did. This situation is on THEM!! I'm floored people still blame the Tree of Life. She's not all-seeing, and even if she was, she wants Nigel to come to a choice of his own will. At most, she can be blamed for not explaining things, but at the same time, but even if she did, would that change how Nigel's folks reacted? They're traditionalistic-perfectionist's and shunned him the second he wasn't perfect.

Given the way his parents are, would they even listen to the Tree? They strike me as the arrogant type who might even scoff at the Tree for dismissing their 'will' since their family supposed has been Guardian's for generations. They act like it's their inherent right, all they're doing is making sure the next generation are good guardians, how DARE she speak ill of their parenting methods?

cesarin

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ PervyNerd84

PervyNerd84 wrote:

Of course. But she is currently being completely detached and "nope, not my problem". Instead of try to guide him.
All of this are their parent's bs...
And I fear the younger son will get the worst of it.

KatoriaTheRed

2 years, 10 months ago

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I was right..she wanted him to break free of his parents...maybe not the way I thought, exactly, but still breaking free in a way.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ KatoriaTheRed

The kind act of making your parents disown you, so you can go free to live on the street and eat out of the gutter.
Standards!

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

"Making your parents disown you"?

She didn't make anyone do anything.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ PozPuppeh

Thats an interesting argument.
So i am a deity and i run a test for guardianship to the worthy.
A position naturally revered to a point that society at large views it as an upper class.
So there is this kid who basically fits every requirement to join my wee band of jolly fellows, except for one problem: Clearly he is doing things only cause his parents are pushing him to.
So clearly i fail him, afterall he wont make the cut if he is not doing this out of his own volition, but instead of telling him and his parents what the reason for it was, im not gonna tell him anything, despite knowing that his parents would view this as an object failure and disappointment.

Not sure how you measure fault, but if i know that X results in Y and i choose to play into it, then i share responsibility.
Its that simple.
My actions contributed to the outcome.
Even if i didnt know that this would happen, my actions still contributed to this outcome and i still share a responsibility.
The fact that i DID know with fair certainty what this results in, just adds to my responsibility.

And sure, even at this point you could say that i forced nobody to do anything and everyone acted out of their own free will.
But we both know that i manipulated the events and i had a play in it.

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

As I said in other posts- you're doing alot of reaching and making a tremendous amount of assumptions.

"A position naturally revered to a point that society at large views it as an upper class."

On what do you base this assessment? So far, one candidate is basically homeless, another from an alchemy school, another an orphan; apparently the task can be assigned to people from all walks of life.

"So there is this kid who basically fits every requirement to join my wee band of jolly fellows, except for one problem: Clearly he is doing things only cause his parents are pushing him to."

That can be a problem. Alot of children are pressured into taking on roles because they were forced to, or because it was expected of them. Even if they enjoy it, it's still a problem.

"So clearly i fail him"

You keep saying this, but it's not what happened; she didn't "fail" him. She only told him that he needed more preparation and time to self-reflect on what he was doing. This does not denote a "failure."

"afterall he wont make the cut if he is not doing this out of his own volition, but instead of telling him and his parents what the reason for it was, im not gonna tell him anything, despite knowing that his parents would view this as an object failure and disappointment."

To tell him what he needed would have robbed him of learning it for himself; to reflect on his goals and come to an understanding. And it was his lesson to learn.

How his parents reacted is not her fault. There's nothing to indicate that she had any vision that this would be the outcome. Even if she did, there's no reason to assume that confronting his parents would have made the situation any better, and no guarantee that it would have made things worse.

"Not sure how you measure fault, but if i know that X results in Y and i choose to play into it, then i share responsibility. Its that simple."

It's never that simple. Boiling it down to a nonsense equation robs the context of fault in a situation. Then again, it's also why you can throw around blame effortlessly like this:

"And sure, even at this point you could say that i forced nobody to do anything and everyone acted out of their own free will. But we both know that i manipulated the events and i had a play in it."

Inaction is indeed a choice that can be just as potent, if not morseso, than making a choice to begin with. But it is by definition -not- "manipulation."

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

@ PozPuppeh

"	On what do you base this assessment? So far, one candidate is basically homeless, another from an alchemy school, another an orphan; apparently the task can be assigned to people from all walks of life.

The fact that the task can be assigned to people from all walks of life, does not contradict what i wrote.
You get the hint at this from the first and this last kid's story. In the first you see a religious side to the entire thing, and in this last one a societal cause even the rich aristocracy is obsessed enough with this position to disown their own son and start working on the second one.

"	That can be a problem. Alot of children are pressured into taking on roles because they were forced to, or because it was expected of them. Even if they enjoy it, it's still a problem.

Yes. That was not the part i critiqued. Failing someone is one thing, but not telling them why, now thats just curb stomping them for the fun of it. Imagine your teachers failing you at school over and over again, but never telling you why.
Explanation and clear communication is a base requirement for growth.

"	You keep saying this, but it's not what happened; she didn't "fail" him. She only told him that he needed more preparation and time to self-reflect on what he was doing. This does not denote a "failure."

You can twist the words any way you prefer. Their meaning remains. As she herself said: being a guardian takes a bit more.
The net sum of it is that presently you are not qualified to fulfill the role, so at present you fail the test, but you can and should try next time.

To tell him what he needed would have robbed him of learning it for himself; to reflect on his goals and come to an understanding. And it was his lesson to learn.

How his parents reacted is not her fault. There's nothing to indicate that she had any vision that this would be the outcome. Even if she did, there's no reason to assume that confronting his parents would have made the situation any better, and no guarantee that it would have made things worse.

Sorry but thats nonsensical.
Literally.
To meet a criteria without being told what the requirements are is a sadistic game and nothing more. A rudimentary framework has to exist to at least tell the direction in which you need to improve yourself, otherwise its just guessing around.

"	It's never that simple. Boiling it down to a nonsense equation robs the context of fault in a situation. Then again, it's also why you can throw around blame effortlessly like this:

Its a yes or no question.
There is nothing more simple than this.
Did your actions contribute towards the outcome?
Yes.
or.
No.

Also, quite ironically an equation does not place blame on you.
What i said is based on logic, if you see blame in it, then you have a problem with your own conscience.

"	Inaction is indeed a choice that can be just as potent, if not morseso, than making a choice to begin with. But it is by definition -not- "manipulation

You seem to be confusing inaction with non-interference. The latter leaves no room for manipulation while the prior is part of manipulation all the time. If you have as much as an inkling about the result of someone involving themselves with you, then inaction is a chosen action.

Same in this instance. The moment the kid entered the test and she understood his background, choosing not to tell him specifically why he failed and thus prevent the misunderstanding which lead to him being disowned is literally a choice she made.
Its much like telling a half truth.
Technically you did not lie, you just omitted a part of what you could have said. Inaction is the exact same thing.

Neos8

2 years, 10 months ago

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Damn that does suck that Nigel feels that way and as its stated she told him that he can try again once he understands whats missing in his life. The parents are completely to blame here as how quickly their pride was hurt cause the tree said that he wasn't ready. He was understanding that before his parents and that should have clicked there, but he is only a kid and to not only be treated like he was going to get what he wants, but when he is encouraged to try again only to be shunned by those parents really hurt him once they drew their attention to the younger brother.

That fucking sucks all around and to be honest I think he should have been there for his little brother as well. But I do hope that Karma comes to bite his parents in the asses cause they deserve that.

krazylegz624

2 years, 10 months ago

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it feels like people are forgetting that she isn't all knowing and is limiting herself on purpose even then, i doubt she knew what was going down in his family exactly or what had happened since. yes she is a goddess, but she's definitely more akin to the older faiths where their gods were just very powerful humans and not truly all mighty beings. heck, i don't think we've even seen a proper extent of what she can do; offensive, defensive and supportive.

AnimaIncuven

2 years, 10 months ago

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Nigel you poor little baby!!! ;A;

Juria316

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

Well, now I'm expecting Nigel to either break down or snap. Also, if anyone deserves his hate, it really is his parents for treating him like he's interchangeable. You're one hell of an artist Zummeng, and the debates going on in the comments just further cement that.

SpyroBeddingCynder

2 years, 10 months ago

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Didn't go exactly as I thought it'd go. While he did lose his family he was suppose to tell her exactly how it happened. Not just leave it with ~ you took my family.

dobermanny

2 years, 10 months ago

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I do have a question for the author: The Tree of Life was able to explain why he was not picked during this situation. Was there a reason why she would not explain it as directly? I recognize she likely never expected to have things turn out as it did, and conflict is often needed for a good story plot. But perhaps knowing this earlier, Nigel could make a difficult choice to forge his own path. I think there are opportunities to have this decision lead to its own conflicts and as all cast members are older, a chance for them to meet again.

shadowtrigger

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ dobermanny

I suspect the reason the Tree never told him this directly is either because he wouldn't understand its full meaning, or he wouldn't believe that the fault in his character was due to his parents and how they raised him as a tool for their own benefit. If she had told him point blank any of that, I highly doubt he would've believed it to be true because he was raised in such a 'loving family'.

Granted she could've put the thought in his head and let him see what happens next, but being so young, it probably still could've warped into this idea of 'this is your fault!' and still end up where they are now, just with more context of why. In short, it may have not have mattered one way or the other due to his upbringing blinding him to the truth.

She had to make a choice in the end; and whatever options she may have had she probably would've had the same result in the end. This may have just been the best of an overall bad situation.

dobermanny

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ shadowtrigger

I had thought that both scenarios could indeed lead down the same path. With that in mind, I recognize that the more charming yet impactful approach would be to give him some hope, while discovering for himself the heartbreak of parents rejecting him.

To that end I almost wish that years would pass before he confronted the Tree of Life again, especially stronger and more threatening to her. That many events would pass before we caught up with those two to really bring home the full weight of what his parents did to him, and how it would affect his future.

That said, I'm now curious how the story continues. He is too young to act out his aggressions in a way that the Tree of Life is mortally threatened, and I'm sure Zummeng won't have him attack her while her young companions are present. So what next? I'll keep reading.

shadowtrigger

2 years, 10 months ago

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Yeah this is kind of what I expected would happen. Nigel had the strength and skill (for a child) but he lived by the will of his parents and not his own. Free will is deciding for yourself that you want to be a guardian, not what the parents decided for you. He's angry yes, but severely misguided because he won't blame his parents for some reason.

Indirect or not, her declining of Nigel as a guardian only revealed the true colors of his parents but he refused to see that and chose just to blame the Tree for how his life turned out now. Which again, isn't her fault. But he's making it her fault.

And seeing the concept art for Nigel as an adult, I'm guessing this anger he carries will continue on into adulthood, refusing to acknowledge anything she says from here on because of his misplaced anger and hatred for the person he sees as the reason for losing everything when in actuality...he didn't have much to begin with if this is how his parents saw him.

As just a tool for their own benefit and nothing else.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ shadowtrigger

Reality check: Children living for the will of their parents is like stating that the sky is blue.
What other color would you expect it to be?
What do you think children do? They copy their parents and till a certain age, down to their very last cell everything revolves around satisfying the expectations of your parents. Thats literally one of the most hardcoded things in your genetics cause when you are born you are literally like a blank sheet outside of instincts, and those instincts will tell you to satisfy the only beings which can ensure your existence at this stage.

And thats literally just the tip of the ice berg.
You rely on your parents for everything, including knowledge and the way to act and carry yourself. Everything starts there.

Also: This entire fiasco would NOT have happened if she just said so in the first place.
Hey, your kid passes, the only reason im going to fail him is because of you two. He has to want this out of his own free will or it wont work.
Alternatively just fail him, shut up about the reason, and let his parents disown him lol.

PervyNerd84

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

You seem to be missing a lot of key points in the narrative. You do make some compelling arguments that the Tree should have had a word with the parents, at most this makes the Tree flawed like any person, a rather nice touch showing she's rather in-tune with the mortals she looks over. Again we don't see her having all-seeing abilities so she may not have foreseen Nigel's folks would abandon him. The way she spoke to Nigel hinted she expected him to be home, safe, with his parents who up until that day showered him with love and affection. She clearly doesn't see how deep their pride and arrogance and cruelty go, otherwise, maybe she would have had a word with them that day.

Yet her point was she wanted Nigel to reflect and decide, yes I want this of my own accord, this is truly what 'I' want.

The other issue stems from, given how we've seen Nigel's parents react, would the Tree having a word with them change anything? They may grow indignant anyway, scoff at 'How dare she question our parenting? We're only preparing him for the task his forebearers have carried out for generations!'. Given how easily they shunned him, I have a feeling unless she passed him then and there, he'd suffer even if the Tree told them point for point what they were doing wrong. You can't always convince people with words, and the Tree's a big supporter of Free Will, so again she doesn't strike me as someone who just arranges things to fall in line entirely with her desire. She wants her agents to be Guardians for themselves as much as the dedication to protect others.

We haven't seen the Tree's full hand yet, nor if she may yet actually have words with Nigel's folks. So drawing conclusions prematurely until the full hand is on the table. Just shocks me people blame the Tree or support shanking her... just what the hell? Lunacy.

VoE

2 years, 10 months ago

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You're telling such a compelling story! The fact that your audience is springing to life like this after every page is a really good sign! No matter what they say, or how angry they seem to be getting, know that the stirring of such emotion is proof that you're producing REAL art.

Thank you for your stories! And don't get discouraged just because it's making people's hearts race. That's the whole point <3

Zummeng

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ VoE

To tell the truth I really love making stories with emotions, I want to make people feel things, but I never want to tell them how to feel about something. All I can do is always try to steer things in the right direction as much as possible. That's all I can do.

In art, I have always had the courage to express my emotions and tell things so it's hard to discourage me. :D

Thank you so much for your words, you really made my day!

SherryDomino

2 years, 10 months ago

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I honestly could see this coming from the beginning. Nigel did not truly believe or desire to be a Guardian. He was put on the path from the looks of things, before he was even born. He trained and studied because it was expected of him. Was Nigel ever asked if he desired anything else? It does not seem like he was.
From an artistic standpoint I really like the detail of Mira and Chili's eyes as they peer around Luna. There is a lot of emotion in them and seem to pierce through everything.

TwistedDragon

2 years, 10 months ago

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Sounds like folks are assuming if this was explained his parents by him or her that it would've made any difference. People like his parents wouldn't have cared if it came from his mouth or hers, failure is failure in their eyes. It would have never been their fault, they were far too full of themselves to ever realize they could've made a mistake.

Maybe it would've made it a little easier on the boy to know the reason when it came time for his parents to turn on him, but he was so caught up in his parents' baggage he'd probably still be here right now, he'd just already have the answer.

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ TwistedDragon

Dont think thats a viable mindset.
You cant worship something and just ignore what it tells you at the same time.
Cant have your child be a guardian and being told that you are the only reason he didnt make it.

But we will never know what a direct confrontation would have looked like. In this arc she never explained to neither the boy or his parents why he was failed, directly leading to being disowned.

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

"You cant worship something and just ignore what it tells you at the same time.

People do it all the time with organized religion. Moral double-standards exist because of it.

"she never explained to neither the boy or his parents why he was failed"

She never said he failed at all. How can she be faulted for -their- perspective?

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ PozPuppeh

Religion is a mind construct and game of interpretations.
You cant justify logical gymnastics when the object of your worship is standing in front of you and telling you things directly.

As for how she can be at fault for their perspective: She understood their perspective. Thats how.
From what she said, its obvious that she understands the situation more than anyone else in the scene, but whether or not thats true, one thing remains a fact: She never explained her position, leaving everyone else to guess.

PozPuppeh

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

"You cant justify logical gymnastics when the object of your worship is standing in front of you and telling you things directly."

No, but you -can- reinterpret their message based on your own biases and perspectives even if the message they're giving you is plain. You don't even need religion to twist someone's message based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what it says.

"From what she said, its obvious that she understands the situation more than anyone else in the scene"

I'm not reading the words "I knew this was going to happen, that this would be their reaction," nor any other indication through dialogue that she knew this would be the outcome. "It's obvious," you said?

NeksusCat

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

Funny thing, how people talk to you, tell you outright their points of view, yet you brush them off as insignificamt, because they don't fit well to your own beliefs.
If a living deity ever comes to you and tells you, that you live wrong and how you should change your life according to their vision, I highly doubt you'd listen, just as you never listen what other people tell you in the comments. :3

Labyrias

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ NeksusCat

Thats a rather curious take if i want to be honest. As far as i can see i rationalized all of my answers, so you understand why i disagree, but then again i guess you are right. We live in a time and age where all points of view should be respected regardless of being right or wrong, just on the merit of them existing.

In my time courtesy was to make a proper counter argument, but apparently we have reached a point where thats offensive as well and i just need to "listen" cause we are down to listen and believe.
Pray tell though, why is the reverse of your logic not true?
Im not only telling, but also rationalizing my points of view. Why'd you brush it off?

Whenever i run into these high strung ideas of compassion and understanding they always seem to inevitably be directed in one specific direction and never actually aim for equilibrium.

NeksusCat

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Labyrias

Who said that I do not believe that the opposite might be also true?
Everyone have their own truth, or half-truth, if you may.
Everyone has a half-truth.
If you share it and find someone that fits your half-truth, together you might form a whole truth, between each other, gather more people and truth gets stronger.
But sometimes, if you add a little lie, a highly rationalised and seemingly truthful, unite it with truth and Bam, you have another truth, but shifted.
Even if it's part lie, it's still a truth for someone, who's eager to believe.

But that's all up for philosofical discussion.
Why people are not so willing to listen to the truth you're talking about?
Well, I guess, same cause why you didn't want to aknowlege theirs previously.
It didn't fit with each other.

What renders many comments nearly irrelevant, is that we have a vision of Zummerg, we have a story yet to be told, and I believe, everything in it has a reason to be that way and not another.
It's fun to theorise and say "what would've been better done in said situation", looking from a side, but we still haven't seen a whole picture.

As to what I think about the situation.
Given that Luna strives on giving everyone around her a way to live freely, not being allmighty and allseeing goddess, she can't and won't push people around, won't actually force people to do what she'd want them to do.
Compassion and understanding aside, she'd be no better than Nigel's parents if she would've gone and told them, how should they raise their child, or told Nigel they're raising him wrong, or taken him away, so he could be Guardian.

Nigel becoming a Guardian is not a core point of the story.
Nigel having an internal and external conflicts, struggling with seeing things for what they trully are and learning to overcome them, live for himself is it's all about.
Should a child go through such trauma?
Probably not, but then again, most kids irl are going through far worse.
Should we not feel for Nigel?
That's not the case as well.
Should've Zummerg wrote the story differently to upease all the flaming comments?
Nope, that story is going magically as it is, if it enflames the watchers to leave such heartful comments and take sides with the characters.

The thing is - we live if a world, where people have different views, different believes and different desires.
As profound as it sounds.
We can't agree on something one.
There's no actual right and wrong, but people's expectations based on their believes, experiences and how were they raised.
So, a story that makes people feel for the characters from so many different points is marvelous.
Hopefully, it'll make people think, come out of their box and discuss, not just push their views onto others.
But that's a wishful thinking.
Too many people are afraid of thinking outside the box and accepting something they're not used to.

I've begun to ramble a bit, but I hope, my core point was carried out clearly.

Muddypaws

2 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 2 years, 10 months ago by Owner

Okay this kid (a) has anger management issues; (b) needs a hideously LONG timeout, or (c) a swat in the ass for such belligerence.

Or, maybe just a zap into limbo, forever!!!

DavidFoxfire

2 years, 10 months ago

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@ Muddypaws

Oh, that's just wonderful, why don't you just give Nigel a loaded gun and send him loose while you're at it?

Muddypaws

2 years, 9 months ago

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@ DavidFoxfire

Okay good point! Must be something she can do to calm him down and get him back to a proper path?

Kiirothescrafty

2 years, 10 months ago

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I mean if she had just taken him in as a guardian couldn't she have guided him onto the right path? Instead of being all cryptic and leaving it all to chance?

ImaginaryVoice

2 years, 10 months ago

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Well the kid had dedication in spades in my opinion. If he didn't, he wouldn't have bothered to try so hard for his parents in the first place.

But he indeed lacked free will at the time. And now he's uh... homeless, alone, and angry.

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Tree of Life - Book 0 pg. 64.

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