Inkbunny

If you're merely attracted to children and not molesting any yet or not advocating that it's a good thing yet, that's at least a sign of some moral clarity remaining in you.

The most common problem with all aberrant sexualities and weird sexual desires is porn addiction. You'll be surprised by how much it weakens if you go a month or a couple months without looking at porn.

When it comes to these things, from the porn consumption to the ever-progressing march of celebrating sexual vice, there is no "okay, stop here" for once only the things you want are legitimized and things beyond that aren't. It will never stop where you want it, so you need to go to the source.

shocu

3 years, 2 months ago

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@ UnstableSable

This is a rather strange thing to say on a site like this, don't you think? And I recall you saying how you liked porn on this very comment section.

Regardless, I can't say I share your views on pornography. Barring porn in which (real) people are harmed, of course, I do not see anything wrong with people enjoying themselves with the aid of images of people also enjoying themselves.

Look, I understand you're very religious, and that that heavily informs your views on sexuality and how deriving pleasure from it may seem sinful and/or "degenerate," but I and many others here simply have a very different view on sex. I do not see sexual gratification as inherently harmful unless it is done at someone else's expense.

I know you're going to say it is imoral on a spiritual level, but that is merely your interpretation of what a "spirit" is and how it works. Many here don't share those beliefs, and I'm not just referring to atheists either. I respect your religious convictions, but please do not try to impose them on others, and please consider how your way of viewing the world is not the only way of viewing it. Learning to understand others' way or thinking and not limiting yourself merely to what you've been taught is one of the most freeing and enlightening things you can do. Hating and alienating others who are not like you will only breed more hatred and alienation. Scorn will get us nowhere.

UnstableSable

3 years, 2 months ago

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@ SecretSboi

"What's the difference between having anal sex with a consenting man and a consenting woman?" - fundamentally, there's a deep spiritual difference as well as a biological one. Biologically, both are extremely inadvisable as the anus/rectum can barely take a finger without being damaged, much less being rammed by an enthusiastic man's dick. Might not be apparent the first few times if you're lucky enough not to outright rupture anything, but long-term leads to early onset incontinence. Morally, it's iffy even if a married man should do it with his wife, but as a Christian I believe no sex should be done outside of a God-recognized marriage regardless of if Catholics more specifically are correct about the whole "penis in vagina only, no contraceptives" policy. Two men or two women simply are not and never will be a marriage because a marriage requites the union of a fundamentally different man and woman together.

And what do I mean by supporting the exploitation of minors? Exactly what I said is what I believe on this. The homosexual and trans movements spread largely by propagandizing and grooming the youth, or by outright molesting them from a place of trust. How it is that being molested has a strong statistical correlation with becoming homosexual or identifying as the opposite sex in adulthood is not clearly understood, but it's been known for a long time that it works this way.

Currently, people are advocating for treating pedophilia the same way we currently treat homosexuality and transgenderism in our culture. That it's "just another sexuality". On that front at least, they're right. It's just another limb of the same chimera, another branch of the same tree.

MrDoberman

3 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 8 months ago by Owner

I don't believe in flag burning, since it's disrespectful for those who served for our country. I don't support that.

However......

Homosexuality is natural, and exists in many species. Humans are animals too. Look it up, there's thousands of articles by scientists out there.

But guess what? Homophobia only exists in one species: Humans.

Homosexuality is natural; homophobia is not.
Oh, the LGBT community hates pedos, we aren't child diddlers nor we accept them. It's actually the pedos themselves who are trying to include themselves, while the LGBT are trying to keep them out. Before you bring up any 'facts' that we accept them, Do some more research please and heed to the quote: "There's a few bad apples in every barrel." Even in your group/community of your belief will have bad apples as well. ;)

Also, if you can't stand other people drawing stuff you dislike, why did you -gee idk...- JOIN this site? You're pretty much smacking a hornet's nest with a bat.

Now if you excuse me, I'll be watching a movie with my same sex soulmate (who's the same age as me btw, before you try and make up crap about me) I've been with for many years.✌

shocu

3 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Oh, the LGBT community hates pedos, we aren't child diddlers nor we accept them. It's actually the pedos themselves who are trying to include themselves, while the LGBT are trying to keep them out. Before you bring up any 'facts' that we accept them, Do some more research please and heed to the quote: "There's a few bad apples in every barrel." Even in your group/community of your belief will have bad apples as well. ;)

I fully respect your sexuality and right to defend your existence towards bigoted people, but you do not have to drag us under the bus to do so, especially after going on a rant about homosexuality existing in animals and homophobia being exclusive to humans, particularly since the exact same thing could be said of minor attraction and anti-MAPs.

You expressing your hate of us is no different than the bigoted behavior you criticize. Just like you, we had no say in what we would end up being sexually attracted to, and just like you, we have a right to exist without feeling spit at at every corner.

MAP/pedophile ≠ child molester. Most of us do not abuse children nor do we want to. Just like you don't want to rape men simply because you're attracted to them, we have no desire to see children suffer. The thought of a child being harmed disturbs us just as much as you. Obviously there are some people out there that do harm children, but we do not support those people. And by the way, "child diddlers" is a rather insensitive term for abuse victims. Their trauma is not a joke.

As for the LGBT+ stuff, most MAPs are not interested in being part of the LGBT+ community, and frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you accept us or not. You rejecting us or not does not change our reality, and we will find ways to support each other as MAPs even if we have to do it by ourselves. And rather than just calling us "bad apples," you should do some research yourself before you talk about something you don't understand. Many MAPs have no desire to abuse anyone yet they struggle with their attraction because they feel hated by everyone no matter what they do, and you're only adding fuel to that fire.

I can completely understand if you do not want to associate yourself with us and if the whole subject makes you uncomfortable, but please do not use us as cannon fodder to denounce this bigoted individual. We are quite tired of bieng the world's scapegoat, especially by people who go around spouting about the wonders of accepting yourself and denouncing hateful people, only to turn around and spit the same crap that they criticize at us.

And I apologize if my comment comes off as rather ranty. Again, I fully support your right to express your sexuality because it is indeed a part of you, and I otherwise agree with you regarding this person's hateful messages. But I'm just tired of the whole "Oh, don't kick me, kick that one instead" attitude. If you don't want to support us, fine, but don't do the same hateful and ignorant things that you're supposed to stand against.

UnstableSable

3 years, 2 months ago

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"	MrDoberman wrote:
	Homosexuality is natural, and exists in many species. Humans are animals too. Look it up, there's thousands of articles by scientists out there.

It serves no biological function. When found in animals, it is a serious disability that ends the family line at best. Natural selection prevents homosexual animals from reproducing.

"	MrDoberman wrote:
	But guess what? Homophobia only exists in one species: Humans.

Homosexual apologism, propaganda, pornography, and grooming of minors into accepting it are also things that only exist in humans.

Homophobia also isn't a real thing. Opposing homosexuality as an ideological movement, coming from my own ideological convictions, isn't a phobia in any sense. Playing word games like "technically it's not fear, it's any aversion" doesn't change this. The term is just an ad-hominem attack to shut down discussion and control language.

"	MrDoberman wrote:
	Oh, the LGBT community hates pedos, we aren't child diddlers nor we accept them. It's actually the pedos themselves who are trying to include themselves, while the LGBT are trying to keep them out.

Wrong. Pedophilia was a major pillar at the start of the "gay rights movement", and was quietly asked to hide until the society was bullied into being more accepting of the rest of it.

"	MrDoberman wrote:
	Dropping this conversation, I'm an abuse survivor and don't feel comfortable talking with maps/nomaps/pedophiles sorry.

"Oh, you see I'm gay and was also sexually abused! THere's no correlation though, being abused is just how I found out about the beautiful gayness deep inside!"

Literally just look at this next to your earlier message.

"	MrDoberman wrote:
	Now if you excuse me, I'll be watching a movie with my same sex soulmate (who's the same age as me btw, before you try and make up crap about me) I've been with for many years.✌

That's not your soulmate, that's just a friend you bang. Trying to virtue-signal about how long you've been together doesn't change that fundamentally, you're in a by definition unhealthy relationship.

firestar7

3 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Sorry to tell you this, but you need to stop guys.
Not only can do harm and it can go far (like suicide!) but you're talking about something you hate just because **everyone says it, so it's true**.
Try to be "objective" and open up your mind,
Not everyone in this world can choose their attraction, even the most taboo.
and therefore say everything you just said and both immature and hateful, you have no justification for saying that.

And for the record, do you REALLY know what pedophile means?
There are several types of chronophilia.
  -hebephile (hebephilia) is a person who is attracted to pubescent children, i.e. pre-adolescents or teenagers in the middle of puberty, usually between 11 and 14 years old
  There are also ephebophiles (ephebophilia), who are attracted to post-pubescent (post-puberty) teenagers, usually between the ages of 15 and 17.
  -A pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. The term "prepubescent" here refers to children who have not reached puberty, usually between the ages of 5 and 11.
  -teleiophilia (teleiophiles), which is the attraction to adults
  -If we are talking about an attraction to young children (babies/toddlers), we would be talking about nepiophiles (nepiophilia)

Know that the MAPs, the majority of them are against the abuse and rape.
They do not wish to join theLGBT community, because it prefers to create their own,
it is also a way to protect the LGBT community, to avoid that anti-LGBT people have a reason to hate even more (ex: Gay people are pedophile! ahhh! )

In short, what I want you to do is talk about this, With civility and maturity, whether you are gay/trans/non-binary/MAP is something that everyone suffers,
  -Gay is not natural. (while it is not a choice)
  -It's not "normal" to be other than the gender we are. assigned (while, there are people who suffer from being born with a gender that is not the one they want, like me )
  -Pedophiles are all monsters, rapists. (while it is not a choice and the majority of MAPs are against rape and manipulation of minors )
Etc... Etc... I'm sick of it!

I'd like you to talk about anything and everything, but with maturity.
How many people will it take before you notice how much your simple words hurt,
How many suicides will it take for you to stop your genocidal words, with your hatred, gavalnized by an idiology that is only the result of an ignorance of the subject
how many minors will need....... to commit suicide because of their attraction, even the most taboo, because of their gender identity or other.
you say that LGBTs and MAPs are dangerous...... but in this story who really is......

firestar7

3 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

((I am talking to those who are anti-LGBT and anti-MAP, and MrDoberman I have nothing against you, really. ))

firestar7

3 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Oh and for
***Having sex with children is wrong. Normally I'd feel that one can be left unsaid, but I'm around furries right now - InkBunny in particular, where a lot of you guys make art based on your childhood trauma and glorify the spreading of such trauma onto fictional children. I'm just going to politely remind you that this is both disgusting and evil. I can't make you stop, I'm not even going onto the comments of your own submissions to tell you it's wrong, but I won't be prevented from saying it's wrong.***

-First of all what you say is nonsense, why people would like to remember their trauma by making this kind of drawing, already, have you already experienced it once? to have the absolute reason?

-Secondly, do you really know if the children can consent or not?
because if it wasn't really the case the children would really do everything we ask, and would have more unlucky children.
but fortunately, children can like to have sex with cub/teen/adult and I'll tell you I've had my own experience and I was always given the choice and I generously said no, because I was too shy.
And the whole area of sex, I knew it at the age of 11 or 10, and hentai was a big part of my childhood and gave me the reason to live,
despite being in a world where everyone wants to kill each other or steal money under any pretext.
and sex as well as hentai have a real therapeutic effect on the morale and the mind, and I tested it myself, and everything that was +18 real-contact or fictive was good for me, it all depends on the nature of the child, his education and many parameters, not every child can like this kind of thing YES! But there are children who ask for it and are refused because people are afraid to go to jail or to be KILLED!
With time I wanted to do it really but I was refused... But I NEEDED it! I needed it....

so... stop saying it's all bad, when it's not true...

firestar7

3 years, 7 months ago

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well, after I calmed down, I pointed out that there's a lot to say, but if you'd rather I talk about it here or elsewhere, I'm happy to do so, as long as it's not a troll. and we can talk about it calmly if you want

I even skimmed over some things and I think I made a mistake in my explanation.
So, being a MAP is not a choice, or even a disease, but a sexual oriatation, out of all the rapes committed on children (and if I'm not talking nonsense) 1/5 are done by people attracted to minors,
Because yes, there are people who think that raping is normal... whether one is attracted or not.

**But we have to cure them!**
As it is not a disease, there is not and certainly never will be a "magic" solution to it, and the specialists (psychologist or other) say the same thing, it is a sexual oriantation and nothing and nobody can remove it

**They need help! **
Not everyone needs help, but the truth is that YES they do... against the stigma you give them, because of that, they hide and don't talk to anyone, even though they need it.

etc...

shocu

3 years, 7 months ago

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"	If all speech is not free, no speech is free. By demanding the right to be publicly obscene, you have only opened the gate to allow me to be very explicit in my denunciation of your wicked movements instead of being coy and hiding behind euphemism.

You are certainly allowed to express your disdain for such things, but you should also be prepared to face feedback for your views. Do note, however, that there is a difference between expressing your disapproval at an opinion or ideology and directly disagreeing with the entire existence of a group of people. Imagine how absurd it would be to walk up to a black person and say, "If you can freely show your disgusting skin to the world, I have a right to express my disgust of it." This is what many people of different sexualities / sexual identities feel when they see what you're doing here. What many people see when they see a burning US flag is the expression of disdain to the ideologies, social attitudes, and controversial history associated with that flag. When you burn, say, the gay flag, what most people, especially those of that community, will see is not your disapproval of ideologies, but a statement that you do not believe those people should have the right to exist. One is an attack on beliefs/ideas, the other is an attack on a group of people and their existence. Of course, you can argue that the US flag represents more than that, that it can even be argued that the US flag represents a group of people as well, and that's fine a all, but that is not the idea you convey by simply showing us an image of burning flags.

I'd also like to point out that, based on what you wrote here, your main issue seems to be with the pornographic material hosted on this website. I find it odd that you would join a website like this to begin with if you feel that strongly about it, but if you believe pornography should not be allowed on the Internet, you should present your reasons as to why instead of just burning the flags of sexual minorities, which frankly seems barely related to the subject of online pornography in the first place.

"	Having sex with members of the same sex is wrong. It is destructive to your body and soul. If you were to confine this strictly to adults and keep it in the closet, I'd be able to look the other way but a lot of you guys are very openly in favor of exploiting minors.

Care to present us with any evidence of why it is "destructive to your body"? Last time I checked, a lot of people have gay sex and are just fine afterwards, happier than before, even. As for the "soul" part, there is no such thing as a soul, but even if there was, why is gay sex "destructive" to it? Also, why do you deem it "wrong"? Whom is it harming, exactly? Lastly, assuming for a second that you're right and that it is somehow harmful, you realize that wouldn't mean people attracted to the same sex would stop existing, right? What would you have them do, seeing as your flag-burning implies they shouldn't even exist?

Surgically altering your genitals in an attempt to pass yourself off (even to yourself) as a member of the opposite sex is wrong because it causes serious bodily harm and it doesn't help the underlying issues that make you want it. If you identified as having no arms and insisted a surgeon chop off your perfectly functioning arms we'd recognize this for what it really is and refuse. Pushing this nonsense on children harms them. Forcing people to play along with your word games as you insist that you are what you are not breeds hostility and contempt as well as being literally an attack on free speech.

shocu

3 years, 7 months ago

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This comment was cut off. Please ignore it.

shocu

3 years, 7 months ago

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(Part 1/2)

"	If all speech is not free, no speech is free. By demanding the right to be publicly obscene, you have only opened the gate to allow me to be very explicit in my denunciation of your wicked movements instead of being coy and hiding behind euphemism.

"	Having sex with members of the same sex is wrong. It is destructive to your body and soul. If you were to confine this strictly to adults and keep it in the closet, I'd be able to look the other way but a lot of you guys are very openly in favor of exploiting minors.

shocu

3 years, 7 months ago

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(Part 2/2)

Not all trans people undergo surgery, though even for those that do, who are you to dictate what they can or cannot do with their own bodies? I know a lot of people, some of my close friends, even, that feel much better about themselves once starting hormone therapy. What exactly do you hope to gain by taking that newfound happiness away from them? Now, it is true that surgery can be invasive and permanent, and so it is not for everyone, which is why one must consider it carefully before going ahead with it. However, for some people, it really does help them feel better about their own body. Why take that away from them? In what way does what they do with their own body even affect you?

Having sex with children is wrong. Normally I'd feel that one can be left unsaid, but I'm around furries right now - InkBunny in particular, where a lot of you guys make art based on your childhood trauma and glorify the spreading of such trauma onto fictional children. I'm just going to politely remind you that this is both disgusting and evil. I can't make you stop, I'm not even going onto the comments of your own submissions to tell you it's wrong, but I won't be prevented from saying it's wrong.

Perhaps you'd like to tell these people how they should handle their own trauma then? People cope with their traumas in different ways. For some, making art is what helps them. However, that is not the only reason someone might make shota/loli/cub art. Some, like mentioned, do it as a form of coping mechanism. Some may draw it as an expression of their sexuality (yes, that includes MAPs), some may draw it because they like the cuteness, and some may draw it simply because they felt like it. In the end, the reason doesn't really matter. People can draw whatever they wish; lines on a canvas are not going to hurt anyone. Moreover, what you find disgusting, others may find pleasing or even beautiful. I find boobs to be disgusting, and yet you don't see me going around telling people not to draw them. If you don't like something, then don't look for it. I'm pretty sure sites like Inkbunny have blacklists you can use to block tags you don't like. Also, making a drawing of something is not the same as making the assertion that you personally believe that what is depicted in said drawing is "okay." That is like saying that if I make a drawing of someone getting shot, it means I am stating that I think shooting people is okay.

Lastly, in this paragraph you specifically talk about abuse victims using art as a coping mechanism, but then what's with the MAP flag in the image? This seems to be a statement about how abuse victims should handle their trauma, not about people attracted to minors. Regardless, since you probably had MAPs in your mind when writing this paragraph, as the inclusion of the MAP flag in your image would suggest, I will say that a MAP is not necessarily someone who believes that having sex with children is okay. A MAP is someone who is attracted to minors. What the flag represents is the community of people with such an attraction and their common struggles (feeling ostracized, hated, etc.). An individual MAP's opinion regarding sex with children being "wrong" is a different matter.

MrDoberman

3 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Dropping this conversation, I'm an abuse survivor and don't feel comfortable talking with maps/nomaps/pedophiles sorry.

firestar7

3 years, 6 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 6 months ago by Owner

I'm really sorry to hear that, I'm very disgusted with the people who hurt you, I really hope those people went to hell.
I would have wish you had a much more positive experience in this area.
indeed I am MAP, but you have my full support!

MrDoberman

3 years, 6 months ago

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Sorry for the late reply, but thank you ^^ I'm just very wary of maps/nomaps due to my past, and I'm still learning.

I pretty much got upset at the drawing due to being homophobic and transphobic, and said some things that wasn't okay. I wish ink bunny would let us delete comments, but I may need to get an admin to delete my first comment.

firestar7

3 years, 6 months ago

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Edited 3 years, 6 months ago by Owner

I completely understand your distrust, and know that your anger is only the result of the proliferation of propaganda.
and you are not to blame.
even if we are born with this attraction, we do not want to hurt the youngest, as I said, my exprence when I was young, I found it enjoyable.

It's really horrible to hurt a child sexually or not sexually. (sexual predators so)
and I really hope it didn't affect you too much.

if you have any question, feel free to ask me in DM :3

shocu

3 years, 6 months ago

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To MrDoberman: I apologize if I made you feel uncomfortable. It wasn't my intention. I will admit I just have a bit of a short fuse when it comes to this kind of stuff and get easily frustrated when I see the casual dismissal of people like me. My comments weren't meant to be directed at you specifically but more to a general attitude. I'm sorry if my comment caused you any distress. I didn't mean to do that.

MrDoberman

3 years, 6 months ago

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