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Chaos Future 194 : Battle Ended
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vavacung
vavacung's Gallery (2793)

(Original Comic) DILF -XXXII-
The Adventure Logs Of Young Queen Log 494

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(Original Comic) DILF -XXXI-
(Original Comic) DILF -XXXIII-
"Knowing their enemy is national level of threats. No mercenary/adventure daring enough to take the job"

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Warning : This is a test project with no guarantee of completion. It might get cancel on the way. Please read with risk.    

Warning : This is a non-pony project which isn't under any support. So I'm free to draw it when I want and how I want, no need to strict to schedule at all. XP      

Warning :: $20 Patreon version is difference from public one in some page.
Keywords
dragon 145,822, comic 84,640, oc 76,616, kobold 11,442, stick 909
Details
Type: Picture/Pinup
Published: 3 years, 11 months ago
Rating: General
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35 Comments on this Submission
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RepSouls
RepSouls
3 years, 11 months ago
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So much lore!
SigmundRingeck1438
SigmundRingeck1438
3 years, 11 months ago
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Excellent comic! The design of the characters is both simple and gorgeous!
Otlan
Otlan
3 years, 11 months ago
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Edited 3 years, 11 months ago by Owner
Oh that does it -_- . TAKE HIS ASS OUT BRAVER!!! STOP WASTEING YOUR BREATH ON THAT FUCKING BULLY -_- !!!!
KatoriaTheRed
KatoriaTheRed
3 years, 11 months ago
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the background story is also giving dragon time to rest......
Otlan
Otlan
3 years, 11 months ago
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Sneaky damn dragon -_- . Bet in the end it won't matter though.
chaosblackwing
chaosblackwing
3 years, 11 months ago
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Not so much, it's giving them a moment of breathing room but it takes a restful sleep for them to actually regenerate any health and Braver has made sure they don't get any of that.
AurumG
AurumG
3 years, 11 months ago
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That dragon is fucked.
Killereye
Killereye
3 years, 11 months ago
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Not. Yet.
Killereye
Killereye
3 years, 11 months ago
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That story won't lead to the Dragon's Booty! It's negative AF...I don't think Dragon is into that sh*t!
xacarith
xacarith
3 years, 11 months ago
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Hmm I wonder if he'll get worked up enough to manage a hit that deals a huge 2hp of damage! probably not. Mmm But that tail in the last panel...
Firerush
Firerush
3 years, 11 months ago
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Love the lore here. That dragon really has no legs to stand on here
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 11 months ago
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and there it is. you can post some trash trying to defend it as "it attacks richest kingdoms" all you want. but YOU made the decision to make this about a bunch of slimes, deemed cute in their design and thus designed SOLELY to make the reader not sympathise with the dragon even slightly. You chose to do that. Thats why this is an asspull.
Lunamann
Lunamann
3 years, 11 months ago
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Uhm... what asspull?

The reader's still sympathizing with the slimes here. Nothing's exactly trying to get the reader to side with the dragon. On the contrary, it feels like everything we see is painting the dragon in a worse and worse and worse light...
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
link
Edited 3 years, 10 months ago by Owner
That's the asspull. Earlier on there was little reason to hate the dragon beyond "grr evil dragon". Then the artist went to have the kobold underdog show up, making it a light-hearted scenario of a little underdog taking on a big evil dragon. Which turned into a running joke of the kobold being overpowered as hell and basically an unfair fight and just toying with the dragon the entire time. Which then because of this, now they're trying to put people less on the dragon's side, because they were starting to make the dragon seem less like the antagonist. So they threw in a bunch of slimes to go "see how evil the dragon is? cute slimes, guys!!"

If you want proof to this. simply look at other comments. It's not hard to see this offense enraged them towards the dragon. Which the fact is this was mentioned from the start to be light-hearted and possibly leading into nsfw eventually. Some of them don't even give a crap about dragon-boning anymore, they want the dragon killed.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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It doesn't matter that the slimes were cute, just that they were rich. The dragon had two motives. That the slimes had money to take, and the slimes made that money selling weapons to kingdoms that attacked the dragon. So the dragon did have reason and to an extent justification to be angry at them for the latter, but less so the first.

The bigger reason to not sympathize with the dragon: going straight to destruction and an attempt at genocide. There was no display of power by, say, smashing an empty building, or blasting flame over the village. The gold could have been taken by making the threat of violence, but instead of slowly escalating based on response, it's straight to killing and destruction. The dragon KNEW the slimes were pretty much harmless to it even in large numbers. Worse, the dragon apparently believes it fun to commit wholesale slaughter on creatures that are no threat to it. We already knew the dragon is a dick. We just know now how much of a dick.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
link
Edited 3 years, 10 months ago by Owner
Not really. Lets go back to the very defense the artist tried on the last piece like this. pointing to the dragon's own bio. they attack the richest kingdoms because challenge and chaos and all that. That never says anything about them being a dick and up until this story there ISN'T an example of them being a dick.

Someone wanting a challenge doesn't make them a dick, nor does them seeking out the wealthiest foe. Y'know what does make someone a dick? Showing up to a fight, toying with an opponent you obviously already have beat, and drawing it out longer. and longer. and fucking longer just because you can end the fight but don't feel like getting it over with.

Y'know, like the kobold, who's literally stopped fighting and is now telling this whole tale, which if they felt they were at any risk, they wouldn't be doing.

The kobold at this point is bullying something it obviously knows it's going to win against and has no risk of failure against, it's taunting the dragon and mocking the dragon rather than finishing the job it's there to finish, it's already made it clear the dragon can't run, can't fly, can't hit him, can't firebreath him, can't gain any sort of upper hand, and instead of finishing the job, they've stopped for crap like this. All so the artist can try to make the dragon seem like the antagonist still when at this point the dragon's less of a fucking problem than the kobold.

The reason the slimes being cute matters, is because the artist is directly using their cuteness and weakness as a means of swaying people from "y'know... this kobold is kinda coming off as the bad guy here" to "oh nevermind, the dragon killed sentient goop that looks cute! get 'em, kobold!!"
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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The Kobold isn't dragging the fight out because they want the dragon to suffer. They're armed with a wooden sword, and their stats are geared for defense, evasion, stamina, and accuracy. Their strength is abysmal, and causes chip damage. 1 point per rapid fire hit. After so many hours of whacking a dragon with end-boss HP levels, they're about halfway into that ocean (HP pool is a wicked understatement). And the dragon is bitching about the Kobold attacking, and justifying attempted genocide. Attacking the richest, fine, that is what dragons do, but the slimes were no challenge at all. The mightiest slime power about the same threat to that dragon as an angry honeybee.

And the dragon is a threat to the Kobold, but with that much evasion and defense, the Kobold is fighting a war of attrition. Outlasting the dragon. Honestly, if the dragon can swim, they can run to an ocean, swim away, and the Kobold can't swim forever. Diving down, the dragon could hold their breath for a very long time, and slip away while the Kobold can only five for a few minutes, and not too deep for fear of passing out before reaching the surface.

And the dragon going after kingdoms for their gold is a dick move because the kingdom gets, you know, razed to the ground in the process. Like I said, there's no threatening, no demands, no "I would challenge your greatest warriors for your kingdom's good, and if you don't, I'll smash the castle and take it". Just straight to fire and smashing things that aren't capable of fighting back, likely tormenting and bullying the kingdom's civilians for shits and giggles. By the time the dragon goes for the gold, how many people are dead, including women and children?  We don't know the kill count this dragon has, and we do know that other kingdoms have fallen to it, by fire. Burning to death is an agonizing way to die, as well.

The fact is, even before this expository break, we know kingdoms have fallen, and soldiers very likely got cooked to death in their own armor, or had their armor melted into their flesh. So if we handwave the civilians by saying they evacuated, soldiers don't get that courtesy. They need to stay behind and draw the attention of the giant flying lizard that breathes fire and possibly devours their opponents.

Yes, the Kobold is hardly the best choice to defeat this dragon, what with only being capable of doing 1 damage, a single point, even on a critical hit, and only having stamina, defense, evasion, and accuracy, as well as being supremely overprepared, to give them a chance at victory. But if this isn't the ultimate humiliation for the dragon, the thing that lets them know that they're not invincible and should be afraid of worse opponents, ones that will kill them, deciding to make an attempt.

It's not an ass pull when even before this story, we knew the dragon had attacked a kingdom. We knew it was after gold, and to cause chaos, in the form of hurting people it has an absolutely unfair advantage against. Like so many villains, this dragon claims to love a challenge, but the moment they're actually met with a challenge they can't brute force their way past, they start bitching about their opponent actually being difficult to defeat.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
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your first paragraph proves my point: you literally use the slimes being weak as a justification. That's the asspull that this is. the artist made the choice to make them slimes and it's obvious it was done because they realized the kobold was starting to seem more of an antagonist than the dragon which is meant to be the antagonist.

Your second paragraph is a lie if you have paid attention to the comic: the dragon WOULD be a threat. except the kobold literally has an infinite supply of booster drinks.

It's very much an asspull to suddenly bring in "hey you remember this kingdom built of cute innocent slimes? yeah! you murdered them all" lets kinda completely ignore the fact that aparently slimes who could only get wood for their own defense, aparently were fronting and forging all the weapons this other kingdom aparently had, that the dragon razed before razing the slimes (see why this doesn't work? because it's blatantly obvious they chose the slimes solely to try to make the dragon seem even more antagonistic than the kobold)

As for the kobold dragging this out. What do you call the past few pages of exposition? because you know what it isn't? fighting and winning against the dragon: it's DRAGGING. IT. OUT. I sure don't see that kobold swinging that wooden sword of his. i sure see him standing around explaining how evil the dragon is. We already know the dragon can't escape. that was established in like page 5. We already know the kobold can't be touched by the dragon. he has agility boosting drinks and has an infinite supply which was already shown to last a while ontop of that and the only reason he used a second one in the time we saw was because the dragon burned his initial one. Which if you had noticed. when the inventory was shown, he has stacks upon stacks upon stacks of the same drinks.

Face it: the artist made the kobold an overpowered little shit and now they're trying to justify the story continuing on without the kobold coming off as the antagonist, by throwing in new reasons for the dragon being evil. At this rate they may as well also throw in the kobold going "oh. yeah. and you kicked a puppy and it hit a crippled orphan kobold who fell in a river. that kobold was me!" or some other nonsense.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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So you think it's okay for the dragon, who is multiple orders of magnitude stronger than the slimes, to commit wholesale slaughter, because the slimes were weak? And I'll say this again: the dragon already attacked other kingdoms, some of them unprovoked and with no warning whatsoever. It doesn't matter that they were slimes, it matters that unless it was a hidden village full of master level magic users or fireproof Kobolds all of which trained for years in anti-dragon combat, the dragon had no excuse going straight to destruction and MURDER.

The dragon can't hit the Kobold. And going by their stats, odds are it wouldn't do much damage. But the dragon has options. Unlockable attacks, grabs that can't be evaded, environmental damage, area of effect damage, grabbing the Kobold in their talons and running to a lake to drown the Kobold while keeping their arms pinned so they can't access their inventory.

Again, anything is weaker than the dragon except for other dragons of similar age and experience, or bigger dragons with a different breath weapon. If the slimes were armed with metal weapons and armor, what good would it have done them? They had no training. And in this world, it looks like most races are rather cute, so that point of hours is kind of moot. If it were Kobolds, they're cute. Everything is cute in this world, some more than others, but unless specifically drawn to not be cute, that problem your point relies on is suddenly not as useful because what example wouldn't be cute?

Swinging the blunt, wooden sword, that does one, 1, a single point of damage. No matter what, the fight is going to drag because no matter what, the Kobold can't expedite the process of defeating an enemy with more HP than an army. Now, if the Kobold had, and used, damage boosting potions, something that adds a guaranteed +1 or more damage, the fight would go faster, but that's not the case. The Kobold even explains why they're so prepared; how does a lone fighter defeat an opponent several orders of magnitude stronger? By preparing. Could've made damage boosting potions, or sold a few stacks to buy some enchanted gear to boost their lacking stats or grant guaranteed damage, but we see the Kobold has a low INT stat. Smart enough to prepare, not so wise as to invest in better gear (enchant the sword to do DoT, even).

I wouldn't call the Kobold overpowered. Overprepared, decidedly, but overpowered would imply that this fight can end at any time. As mentioned before, the sword, made of wood, does precisely one damage, even on a critical hit. The only advantage besides auto-dodge and rapid slashing ability, is that the Kobold has enough stamina to maintain combat for days on end (not unlike Samurai Jack the first time he met, and fought, the Scotsman, on a bridge). The dragon, meanwhile, can lay waste to armies. Even if they army could do damage, the dragon can fly away, rest and heal, and attack again, each time doing damage to the army's numbers, to whittle away their defenses, always doing more and more damage each time.

And just to reiterate: the slimes weren't the dragon's only victims. We know of at least three that we're attacked, a minimum of one that was straight up destroyed, and the one the Kobold came from couldn't send any other soldiers to do the job, relying on mercenaries. Not to mention the king was badly injured and is confined to a bed. This dragon is evil, and some readers decide to ignore the crimes of the dragon because "well, the dragon is just misunderstood, and isn't that bad". Some people will forgive a character of the most heinous of crimes for whatever reason. And there will be readers that forgive the dragon of multiple attempted genocides. Some will look at this exposition and decide to stop making excuses for the dragon and admit that this dragon is, in fact, evil.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
link
Edited 3 years, 10 months ago by Owner
I think it was wrong for the artist to use that asspull in the first place. That's why i fucking called it out. This is something the artist decided to throw in there to make the dragon more hateable than the overpowered little nutjob that we're suppossed to be cheering on.

The fact you won't even acknowledge this, but instead want to strawman my arguement instead of adress it shows you aren't even SLIGHTLY willing to so much as think about this even a little bit.

The artist established the dragon attacks the richest kingdoms. The artist brings in the kobold to deal with said dragon. The artist has set up an underdog story in doing so. But then because "haha it's funny" they made the kobold more and more overpowered to the point the dragon can literally do nothing, absolutely nothing, in this fight. No matter it says or does the dragon literally has no sort of capability in this fight. meaning. that what was a possibly tense situation was washed away, BY THE ARTIST'S CHOICES, this lead to the kobold being overpowered. Then. Instead of getting it over with. The artist continued to drag this story out. Which has led to the "underdog" kobold turning from an underdog who's winning a tough fight, into an overpowered little shit who is just draging out a fight he already won a long time back. Which is LITERALLY what THIS is!

There is no reason for the kobold to stop and "rationalize" what he's doing. if he's trying to get the job done. That is that artist. throwing this in there. solely. To make the dragon more antagonistic than the kobold because even the artist at this point has realized that they were making the kobold out to be more of an antatonistic entity than the dragon.

It's literally the ONLY reason they used slimes. because. as. i. fucking. said. twice. now. to. you. They picked. the slimes. because. they were cute. and people would. be more angry. because of it. It's like when a bad guy kicks a dog in a movie. It's specifically because the people making it are going "our bad guy isn't showing as bad enough yet. lets have him do something everyone will view negatively".

Seriously. at this point open your fucking brain and look at the past few pages rather than sitting there with your rape-boner excitedly stroking your e-peen over "lolz, you's gon' get raped dregon! Jus stop fighten!"

As for your claims of "he's not overpowered, his weapon does 1 damage" the fuck's been established to have nigh-impossible defense. nigh-impossible speed, nigh-impossible stamina, and an infinite supply of agility drinks and re-vitalizing drinks. He's LITERALLY INVINCIBLE BECAUSE NOTHING CAN HIT HIM. It doesn't matter if he does 1 damaage if the dragon literally CANNOT. FIGHT. BACK. OR. FLEE.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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You keep calling the Kobold overpowered. Why? Super high stamina and evasion, but literally just barely more than no damage output. Overpowered is a term most would use for something like using the Final Flash against Raditz. The Kobold is underpowered, but hard to hit, and can sustain an assault for days on end. And again, the very start of the story has the Kobold on a mission. The dragon attacked a kingdom. Why? For gold and for personal amusement. Greed, and basically sadistic cruelty. The Kobold has the mission of killing the dragon, but misheard, possibly intentionally, the king's order of slay as lay. I doubt the Kobold would want to kill anyone, regardless of their crimes.

I'm not saying the dragon isn't a threat, though I think so many paragraphs might be misdirecting me on which point you're making, so that might be the issue on this one. But as for the dragon being a threat, I've pointed out how. But either the dragon isn't thinking of these options, it doesn't have anything that can't be evaded or blocked, certainly likely nothing that does both at once.

It sounds like you were taking this seriously from the start. Too seriously. If it bugs you so much, you could just ignore it. Not like you can force Vavacung to change their story just to suit your preferences. And I'd say that the Kobold is sort of a modified take on a Fragile Speedster type mixed with a Stone Wall, but we don't know the second part because the dragon hasn't landed a hit. Could be the Kobold is just a Fragile Speedster and one solid blow would end the fight right there, lethally so. The only thing that's certain is that the Kobold is a Min-Max for two stats to the detriment of the others.

The Kobold stopped to sharpen their sword (Monster Hunter rules are in effect), and a conversation was started. The dragon started complaining, so the Kobold is explaining why the fight started in the first place. Yes, Vavacung chose this path, and yes, it's hitting things down. It's part of their style to do a lot of world building. What started as a light-headed story about a Kobold trying to bone a dragon snowballed into what it is now (sort of like our debate, oddly enough). It is what it is, and the most you can do to alter the course is message Vavacung directly to point out your grievances. If you're unwilling to do that, it seems you're complaining for the sake of complaining, or to get attention. That's how I'm perceiving this.

Fine, it's a factor. But to some, it means exactly fuck all. I'd be just as mad at the dragon if it attacked an orc village and the orcs were drawn like the ones from Warhammer down to the smallest detail, if the orcs were as badly outmatched. A kingdom was attacked at the start, and that the dragon chooses violence as a first resort is why I view this dragon as a villain. Violence should be toward the end of the list of escalating tactics. Torture and murder, lower than that.

And here's where you lose any argument from here with me; attacking me instead of addressing your grievances with me. You basically just pointed out your opinion that the Kobold has already won and should "just finish it" (the dragon won't give up, but you seem to think this Kobold, who has admitted to having no special attacks or secret techniques, or magic of any kind, and can only use a basic sword combo, can "just" win at any moment? Walk me through how you would go about this. One damage point per hit against a truly massive hit point pool, no special one hit KO moves, no status effects from the sword, how do you expedite victory without THAT being an ass pull?).

I keep pointing out: retreating to WATER, and using the advantage of bigger lungs to swim beyond the safe dive limit of the Kobold. You can't dodge having to breathe, you can't just power through not breathing or drowning, and you can't say the dragon can't do that. The Kobold hasn't chained the dragon in place, so while flight is off the table, walking and swimming are not.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
link
Edited 3 years, 10 months ago by Owner
It's obvious at this point you're too idiotic to even pay attention to whats been said. Your attempt to pull symantics out of your ass about the terminology of "overpowered" while trying to pretend that a character who cannot be hit, cannot be killed, cannot be hindered in any way and has an infinite amount of supplies to ensure this continues to be the case is "not overpowered, because that denotes being able to instant-kill everything" guess what. if someone puts armor on and can just walk through the strongest hits in a game without a scratch. the armor is still overpowered. The kobold is LITERALLY. UNTOUCHABLE. HAS. INFINITE. STAMINA.  HAS. INFINITE. SUPPLIES. HAS. MEANS. TO MAKE SURE. THE DRAGON. CANNOT. RUN. AWAY. OR. FLY. AWAY.

THIS. IS BY DEFINITION. OVERPOWERED. O V E R P O W E R E D.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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Now you're just being rude. We have a difference in opinions on this, but not once have I belittled you or after in any way hostile. I offer my opinion and insights, you just get angry. I'm trying to make points, about a fictional world based on multiple fictional worlds whose rules tend to muddle together, and you act as if it's meant to be taken seriously. As I said, it's Vavacung's story, and if you have problems with it, complaining and whining in the comments, while getting pissed off at some random person over differing definitions and opinions, solves fuck all.

And the dragon CAN run. It can go in any direction and the Kobold can't do much but pursue. If the dragon dives into a lake, or the ocean, and dives down deep enough, the superior lung capacity of the dragon means it can flee from the Kobold, because the Kobold won't be able to surface in time if they go down too far. And even with a potion of water breathing, once you go far enough down, it gets too dark to see, so the dragon needs only pick a direction and swim that way, then surface, and eventually it can get away if only the Kobold doesn't spot it.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
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Newest page shows that even if the dragon tries to run, the kobold has a word to stop running too. I think you owe me an apology at this point.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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I've yet to get an apology for how rudely you've treated me, so I'd say we're even.

And I can still see a way out. Make a little distance, draw the Kobold in, move a little more, repeat until underwater.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
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You deserve no apology, because you've tried to string me along on asinine "ideas" of how the dragon can escape. even now, you're claiming "they can make distance" the next page literally proves they cannot make distance. the kobold has a magic "use for anything" word that can stop them outright. Your entire points have been rendered moot and you've proven my insults right.

I don't expect an apology, but at this point you sure owe me one. The kobold is overpowered. you have strung this conversation out pretending like if you just ignore how overpowered it is, then you'll be right. The artist has now proven you wrong and at this point. that's not "the dragon wants to be dominated" this is outright rape.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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So the dragon can't crawl? Can't use their wings as arms to drag their way toward other places? The dragon is fully bound in place, afflicted with paralysis, and held by runes, wards, and cables held by stakes? I don't see that, but apparently I missed all of that. I'm a firm believer of "it's not over until you give up". If all you have is determination and one working arm, you can still do something. Worst comes to worst, the dragon can try to call on allies and hope to distract the Kobold long enough to get free and escape. Will it succeed? Only if Vavacung decides it will. I point out possibilities, but I'm not the writer or artist. I can only speculate and come up with theories. Odds are I won't predict accurately for a single thing, but I can still think of how it could go, even if it never does. After all, how many people come up with inventions with the hope of making enough money to retire on, only for the inventions to not work out?

And I'm not pretending a damn thing. You and I have different ideas on the meaning of the term "overpowered". To you, it apparently means "as long as the individual in question seems unbeatable for any reason", while to me, it means "the individual in question can, at will, induce the Worf Effect by one shotting the toughest SOB in their general vicinity while being able to take that SOBs strongest attack(s) and barely notice it, if they do at all". That's how I'm seeing this, anyway. The definition you seem to have is very open to interpretation, while mine has a narrower scope. Example: Hercule Satan of DBZ is overpowered because he survived getting backhanded I to a mountain by Perfect Cell with minor injuries, and later survived the genocide attack of Super Buu that wiped out all but a small group of humans. He also seems to qualify on another version, because he can call on Majin Buu, an Eldritch being made of magic, to save his life.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
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Try your symantics all you want, but you literally see in the next page the legs are all bound together, so no, crawling is not an option. To add to it, since the word can bind, it could just bind the wings. Not only that, it's been established the kobold is an overpowered fucker who is faster than the dragon under normal circumstances and thus would be significantly faster by default.

The dragon can't even swim because they'd FUCKING DIE because they DO NOT HAVE USE OF THEIR LIMBS because of the literal bindings on them.

To add to that, do you even know the difference between "dominated" and "Raped" because this has went from "dragons mate based on domination" which was established early on, because it is no longer "domination" when the individual in question says no and the other individual continues. which is what has happened at this point through action alone. This is rape. This is a drawn out rape scenario in which an overpowered kobold who could have finished this already just continues to toy around.

Your attempt to change what words mean, such as what overpowered means, and now what "escape" means is not a situation of us having "different definitions" it's you actively trying to misconstrue what is blatantly the situation. You're literally victim blaming at this point "the dragon is still the agressor, even though they're literally trying to run! why? well simple! because they aren't trying to run HARD enough! And the kobold who can't be hit or hurt by anything at all is a kobold and totally isn't overpowered because overpowered is only if he hits for a bajillion damage and being literally invincible doesn't fall under that! because he hits them with a wooden sword!"

Still waiting for that apology, you victim blaming rape apologist.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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There's no compromise with you. No reasoning. Either you're right, or the other person is an idiot for having a different opinion. You even seem to disregard any points I try to give to your side. We don't have all the information, and I can't see the future. Did I know about the leg binding spell? No, how could I have known? Do I know all the moves the Kobold has? No, I didn't come up with the story. I said that I make guesses, come up with theories, but apparently you have to be the smarter person in the debate, so whatever I say must be wrong by default.

Also, you keep saying "could have finished the fight already". THE SWORD DOES A SINGLE POINT OF DAMAGE PER HIT AND THE DRAGON KEEPS FIGHTING BACK. How does one "finish the opponent off immediately" when it will take at least a full day to do the necessary damage? Do you know something about the story that I don't? Are you in direct contact with Vavacung, and they're telling you what the Kobold is capable of? Because with the information I have at this time, I'm not aware of the Kobold knowing a spell that'll incapacitate the dragon in a single move. The binding spell? Do we know, for a fact, that the dragon can't somehow break the bindings? Is it 100% established canon that the spell made literally indestructible, incapable of being dispelled, and otherwise "it can't be undone and won't vanish until the Kobold wills it so" rules are in effect?

And again, I keep trying to point out we have a difference in opinion about a word. I never said you were wrong about the word overpowered, just that my personal opinion on what it means is apparently not the same as yours. I'm not changing the definition, nor would I try. I even gave an example of what my personal opinion on the word meant. I can see what I believe your version is, being someone that can't be harmed, which is partly in my own opinion. But my version depicts more of a full blown Mary Sue (Gary Stu) type, while yours (or what I believe to be yours) could have a broader application. We have differing thresholds for what counts as OP, though they could be similar. To use One Punch Man's universe, my threshold begins at the middle of Class A Hero and up, where yours could be from around mid Class B(and I'd say Saitama doesn't factor in because the whole point of his character is that he's supposed to be overpowered, and if you disagree with that then my point stands stronger than ever that you're not willing to be reasoned with). My reasoning; once you get to Class A, you have genuine superhuman abilities, ranging from inhuman speed and strength to full blown telekinetic powers. In Class B, you're still rarely dealing with anything that ordinary humans can't somehow achieve. Cyborgs can go from just an ordinary person with above average, but still achievable by Olympic level humans, levels of strength and speed, to Genos levels of speed and power, not to mention weapons, so even there I see room for saying not every cyborg is OP. And Fubuki is likely suffering from mental blocks holding her own telekinetic powers back, and I'd say she could achieve a high Class A ranking. Again, this is my OPINION. And I see you as having the notion of mid Class B and up counting as Fubuki has her group of followers being powerful or very skilled, most being reasonably high up in the Class B rankings.

I don't see the Kobold as OP, because instant death magic isn't established as being unable to kill them, and certain spells with AOE can hit them, moves that deny item usage may exist, and attacks that literally can't miss, do fixed damage, or follow certain rules and/or do non combat related damage, may exist. An opponent with the item denial and unblockable, or fixed, percentage, or non combat related damage, could be used to easily best the Kobold.
TehEternusDranuh
TehEternusDranuh
3 years, 10 months ago
link
You DID know about the leg binding spell. i literally pointed out you were wrong because the very next page proves it. which by the way you commented to someone on said page, meaning you've seen it.

It doesn't matter if you can see the future, if you check any of the pages since the beginning the trend is obvious. the dragon tries to escape, the kobold has a way to stop it. every. fucking. time. without. fail. The dragon tries to retaliate. the kobold has a solution to stop it. every. fucking. time.

This is a simple trend to see coming.

To add to this now you're trying to say i "won't compromise" that's because there's nothing to compromise on. This isn't a subjective issue. this is very much objective. the little fucker's overpowered and toying with the dragon at this point. it isn't about the dragon being one-shot by the sword. it's the fact the kobold keeps stopping rather than just continuing to attack as he should be, he keeps stopping for exposition, this break in the action is prolonging a fight that should already be over with. Again. not. subjective.

Same with our "disagreement" about what Overpowered means. Your opinion is moot. that is not what overpowered is. This isn't a game of "well my opinion is different" overpowered is objective. a thing is overpowered if the drawbacks it has are so miniscule that they give no real drawbacks, while giving such significant benefits that they completely break balance. Which is EXACTLY WHAT THE KOBOLD HAS. He has words for any eventuality, infinite resources, cannot be hit, has fire-immune armor which ensures he can't be harmed by attack he can't dodge, the dragon cannot run, cannot fight back, cannot do a single thing in any of these situations and even your victim-blaming "ThEy CoUlD sTiLl CrAwL" is moot even at the time you were trying to claim it was an option.

Again. You kept this going when you could have just looked back and saw literal evidence in the prior pages to this point. but instead you kept going and going pretending like you had some one-up in how the story was going on. At this point you've tried to obfuscate, change the goal post and now you're trying to claim i'm disregarding any capitulations you give, but the thing is every capitulation you've "given" has been underhanded. All of this because you couldn't admit that the kobold at this point is more of an antagonistic overpowered little fucker than the dragon, which is the LITERAL REASON that vavacung even brought in this very asspull of "dragon even killed little cute slimes!!" which is the ONLY reason this slime portion was brought in.

Going back to the original point: The slimes literally make no sense as the "richest kingdom" because not only does it make no sense that slimes would be making armor, they'd be making armor for other kingdoms to an extent that these other rich kingdoms were suppossed to somehow fight a dragon with it, but when it comes to their own defense the only armor they have is basically a pot on their head and a wooden shield, and this ISN'T suppossed to be viewed as some mockery of the very viewers who read the comic? fuck off with that. This was directly intended to justify the kobold's overpowered ass not simply doing what he's suppossed to do and instead taking his time antagonizing. Because here's a fun fact for you: at a point. this is no longer "dominating" it's literal. textbook. rape.

I don't care if you're getting a stiffy at a struggling dragon. At this point the kobold has went beyond being some underdog protagonist, the kobold at this point is an attempted rapist, and if the story continues as it is, will soon enough BE a rapist. All the vavacung's big way of swaying people is to just go "the dragon is totally worse than the kobold, guys" rather than bothering to actually make the kobold someone to root for. It doesn't matter if your rape-apologist ass agrees or disagrees, that's what this story has become.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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Context is an important thing. My context was, did I know about it IN ADVANCE, AS IN BEFORE THE PAGE HAD BEEN POSTED? I thought that was clear, but apparently I need to be more specific. Even having pointed out that I can't see the future, I need to spell things out in far more detail. That'll mean shorter replies, but I guess that's the only way to ensure what I ACTUALLY mean is received instead of your interpretation of it.

Trend doesn't matter if you don't know the full extent of a character's abilities. Going by stats, I call bullshit on casting big spells that apparently don't wear off, and further allowing for casting more, as sustained spells should incur a penalty, or have a continuous draw on MP. Low INT and WIS should translate to a small MP pool with poor MPregeneration, so being able to cast a Dragonrend type spell is a stretch, but a Hold Creature on a dragon shouldn't last very long. Even if it has a set duration, it shouldn't last more than a few minutes. Even D&D style spell slots means the Kobold will need to sleep to restore them, but that should mean they don't have many spots in the first place, or at all if they're not a spell casting class in the first place.

Here it is again; you act as if other opinions don't count if they don't agree with your own. I fully explained what my version of OP is, I gave points on how the Kobold can be bested almost easily if it isn't immune to status effects, which would be OP in that regard since they're not stated to be a story Boss. And don't pull the victim blame card on me, because the dragon is not a victim. The king at the start is a victim, of the dragon. Yes, the Kobold is veering into Villain Protagonist territory, but the dragon is a mass murderer. Rape is a horrific evil, but I personally consider murder worse. With time, effort, and support, one can recover from rape and live a relatively normal life. Murder means you're dead, and you don't come back from that. The dragon may have a long road to recovery, but at the end of the day, it's better that getting killed. If the Kobold could equip as much as a dagger, or some weapon that benefits from agility but does lethal damage, then it's be the classic slay the dragon story.

Who changed the goalpoast? I point out what I see, you cry bullshit, I try to defend my point, you cry bullshit again. Again, I'm not the author of the story! I can only observe and give my thoughts!

Did I, at any point, say I approve of rape? The story didn't start that way, and was something to read and possibly enjoy as a story. That was my starting point for this, and this whole argument has soured what amusement I had reading it. So thanks for ruining something nice for me. A story that hurts no one, and you just have to impose human morality onto non-human characters.

Let's just part ways, because at this point, I'm done arguing with some random on Inkbunny. I can see neither of us are going to give up, and honestly, I've got better things to do with my time, and I sincerely hope you do as well. If I see your comments anywhere else, I'll leave you be so you can joykill and logic the fun out of whatever you want, and you ignore whatever I'm doing. Declare victory if you want, I don't give a fuck. This whole thing is making my depression rear it's ugly head, so, again, thanks for that.
chaosblackwing
chaosblackwing
3 years, 11 months ago
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Ooh, walked right into that one Dragon. 'It's their fault for being weak', I wonder who else that might apply to in the current situation...
Dreamclaw
Dreamclaw
3 years, 11 months ago
link
Edited 3 years, 11 months ago by Owner
Fuck him up!
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
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I read that in the voice of Jacksepticeye. Thank you for that.
DevilishGenesis
DevilishGenesis
3 years, 10 months ago
link
Lot. Victim blaming, dragon? Really? Just give up. You aren't winning this war of attrition. You will be defeated, and the Kobold is going to bone you. There's nothing to be gained by fighting the inevitable. Even if you land a hit, it'll do little damage, and the Kobold has healing items to undo it. You can't fight, you can't flee. You will lose. And you will be humped by a Kobold.
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