Inkbunny

Yes, the judicial system is broken, and American police need better training. Police are still needed, though, and if they all renounced their oath and quit, said Justice system America would be screwed. Not to mention that they have nothing to do with, and are a separate entity from the court system. The system is broken in many places, and many ways, but to say they’re all complicit is to accuse them of taking part in the misdeeds of the crooked cops. That wouldn’t be fair to the ones that work hard to make a difference, especially not to those that don’t condone brutality or racism, or participate in such. I get your anger, but don’t aim it at those who don’t deserve it simply because they wear the same badge.

You make it sound as if every officer of the law fakes being nice in front of cameras to cover up cruel intent and eager prejudice. That every cop across America is dealing with peaceful protesters violently, with malicious intent, and with a grand conspiracy to cover it up by being fake; despite the evidence. And that itself is prejudice in a nutshell.

SonicSpirit

3 years, 11 months ago

link

@ KatPanikku

There are individuals committing terrible crimes against the people they’re supposed to be protecting, and there are no consequences to those actions. That’s not “needing better training,” that’s willful malice. A cop kneeled on a man’s neck for nine minutes until he died ON CAMERA, and nothing ever would have come of it. He was finally charged, after an entire week, but it took AN ENTIRE WEEK for them to go pick up a murderer whose location and identity they knew. Cops are under-charged and prosecuted for their crimes, and it is a travesty. All cops are complicit in this broken system.

If you still believe the system isn’t irreparable, fine. The Eight Can’t Wait website (https://8cantwait.org/) has 8 reasonable reforms police departments should be required to adopt to ensure they work towards deescalation instead of whatever you want to call their current method of “Let white people with high-powered rifles wave guns in their faces because they want haircuts one week, and attack brown civilians the next.”

I’m not saying every cop is acting violently, but not nearly enough are stopping the ones that are. When a cop does interrupt these abuses, they’re usually fired.

I know this is incendiary, and it’s meant to be. People are suffering and dying, and living in fear. Listen to the stories from your POC friends, they have good reason to be afraid. And nothing is being done. Not without demonstrating, and getting people on the ground, and fighting. Calling for change is like bending a wire, you have to push it a little past where you want it to be for it to affect anything. Not that I’d be averse to abolishing the police, there are some great ideas being put forward for community-run support systems that would do a lot more and work a lot better. But if the past ten years has shown anything, we have to fight very hard for even the bare minimum of change.

KatPanikku

3 years, 11 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 11 months ago by Owner

Maybe it’s because I’m in Canada.  Maybe it’s because I try to stay logical, and try not to let emotion rule me.  Maybe it’s because I don’t believe in becoming what I hate to solve a problem.  I don’t know.  I know things are very bad in the US.  I’m completely for change, and their police system needs at the very least a huge overhaul.  Have your own beliefs, though I feel pointing your finger at every cop is much more like cutting the wire than bending it, then melting it and grinding the slag into the soil.  Good cops are a victim of the system, not co-conspirators to corruption; as not only are their reputations ruined by bad cops, they could get crushed and bullied by their superiors if they try to fix things, as you said.  They need to work, like everyone else, and I’m not going to hate them for wanting to help people, or for police not turning their backs on trying to make a difference in communities because the a cop in the next station belong behind bars, or because police in the next city attacked protesters.

I get that you’re angry about the US police system, which often is unjust towards poc; there’s no denying that and that anger is justifiable.  Racism is a huge problem, though trying to fix prejudice with prejudice is usually a bad idea.  You point out all the bad stories that poc have.  But you never mention the good.  And there are good stories; much eclipsed by the bad.  Just like how seeing protestors rioting eclipses things like peaceful protestors cleaning up the places they marched through.  Too much anger and fear from seeing buildings burning and tear gas being shot at crowds obscures things like the group of protestors that caught a vandal to hand him to the police, and the entire police station that went down on one knee before protestors.  Hate, anger and fear can be blinding, like staring at the sun.

The biggest issue is that the problem with racism in the US police force won’t stop by removing the police system and replacing it with small community groups; that could actually make it far worse due to certain societal divides and xenophobia still quite common in the US.  It would attract the same people who want to be good cops, true, but it’d still attract control freaks and the strongly prejudiced.  The problem with racism against poc from law enforcement is a just symptom of a greater problem still within American society itself.  A police system is made of people, and people have flaws, opinions, and make bad decisions.  Right now it’s hard for poc in America, period; whether it’s getting a Job, a promotion, buying a house or car, etc.  The US is still very much determined to stay stuck in the past.  Until that’s dealt with, no method of law enforcement in America will be free of prejudice or brutality.

That’s all I’m going to say, and I respect your anger even if we disagree on some points.

HTHFP

3 years, 11 months ago

link

this is a yikes...

Danielmlib

3 years, 11 months ago

link

With cases there is a few rotten apples of the group when those hope in a large city the mayor and chief of police have rules on the books stating usage of force won't be tolerated when they sack officers for doing a job they were sworn to uphold. With the few believe to stage a protest when they use force to make district attorneys upgrade charges in the case of a death of an unarmed black individual to felony manslaughter.

TheRevengeX11

3 years, 11 months ago

link

Zonic: "... What the hell, me?"

Ceeb

3 years, 11 months ago

link

ok buddy

RoonyMonster

3 years, 3 months ago

link

@ Ceeb

Good to know Ceeb supports fascists...

NotAnymore

3 years, 3 months ago

link

Not wanting to generalize an entire group of people = facism to you? That's quite sad.

RoonyMonster

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Good to know bakedbads supports fascists lol

NotAnymore

3 years, 2 months ago

link

You're an idiot =\

SonicSpirit

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Yeeeaah, the “group of people” you’re defending is a group who have chosen to do a job, and a job that has repeatedly been shown to allow its employees to kill civilians and take little to no punitive action—when they can be caught on camera doing so and not, at bare minimum, be immediately incarcerated or at least fired? It’s a big, big problem. The system is absolutely broken.

I understand that we’re raised to believe that they’re holding back a deluge of murderers and thieves, but the criminal justice system, even working to the letter of the law, is about punishment, not prevention, and our rate of recidivism is appalling. Even if you are still, somehow, completely unaware of the injustices that should never, but regularly happen, reform would still be required.

NotAnymore

3 years, 2 months ago

link

I'm not defending the group. I'm making the argument that "not wanting to label every individual within that group as a bad person = fascism" doesn't make any sense.

How is this hard to understand? Generalizing entire groups of people (especially a group as large and diverse as the one being talked about here) is generally bad. And equating not wanting to generalize the group with supporting fascism is just... really dumb.

SonicSpirit

3 years, 2 months ago

link

You're correct, except that it's not applicable in this case. For one, fascism is not private citizens crying out, "Hey, stop murdering us," it's enacted through the state, through government power. The police are, at their worst, a tool to enforce fascism. For another, no one is born into the job. You don't wear it on your skin in your off hours, it's not something you realize about yourself as you come into who you really are. Unilaterally, one chooses to become a cop, and demonizing criticism of the systems that are actively harming people isn't helpful.

You can't defend individual cops without looking at what those individual do when police injustice happens. Good cops? They should be irate right now. Not at the criticisms being levied against their profession, but that cops, who should be held to a higher standard than anyone due to the literal deadly force they weild, are not being held accountable for the harm they are doing. They should be agitating for these "bad apples" to be swiftly and immediately removed from service, incarcerated, and tried. These bad cops are not. Their crimes are caught on film, citizens agitate to take them to task, and nothing is done. At the most, they are temporarily suspended and reinstated, often with back-pay.

ACAB is about the system as a whole, because the system is broken. And unless a cop is beating up another cop for daring to unleash violence against the people they claim to have sworn to protect, they'll have to do better.

Again, All Cops Are Bad because any good cops get fired. The murderers are the ones who are reinstated.

NotAnymore

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Gonna try this one last time... you are not addressing my point at all.

Do you agree that good cops exist? If no, you're delusional. If yes...

Do you agree that if good cops exist, then not all cops are bad? If no, take a logic class. If yes...

Do you agree that if not all cops are bad, then not supporting a blanket statement like "All Cops Are Bad" isn't an unreasonable position to hold?

Do you think it makes any sense to call someone who holds the position I just stated a "person who supports fascism"? Or do you think it may be a tad unreasonably hostile to label someone as a "fascist supporter" just because they don't think every single cop is a bad cop? And if the phrase "All Cops Are Bad" is supposed to be a comment on the system, then maybe the problem is in the phrasing. I can't get behind a movement that claims a thing that is obviously false. That's not my problem.

Boy, I sure hope I don't have to break this down any further.

RoonyMonster

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Id stop trying to debate these idiots. They are so entrenched in their own "Head Up Ass" politics. Its just another white guy who thinks he knows what hes talking about LOL Fuck em, keep being badass though! Love the art!!

NotAnymore

3 years, 2 months ago

link

"Its just another white guy who thinks he knows what hes talking about LOL Fuck em"

Damn, dude. Idiotic AND racist? I mean, if that's all you know, then have at it I guess. It's certainly not going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you, though. =\

SonicSpirit

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Okay, yeah, obviously bad faith argument. Banned.

SonicSpirit

3 years, 2 months ago

link

^_^ Thanks. Both for the advice and for liking my stuff! Yeah, I'd thought they weren't being bad faith actors for a minute there, but oh whale! *shrugs*

RoonyMonster

3 years, 2 months ago

link

Why not debate me like you clearly love to do? Id love to waste more of your time and life, honestly. I love fucking wish cop supporting fascists lol Yall are so easy.

NotAnymore

3 years, 2 months ago

link

I'd gladly waste 30 seconds of my life just to inform you of how incredibly affective you are at reversing any progress towards your cause. You seem to have no concept for how much people like yourself push others away from a potentially good movement by calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fascist".

Also, you're a racist, so please go fuck yourself <3

AngryFur

3 years, 11 months ago

link

That's going into the folder.

MviluUatusun

3 years, 11 months ago

link

You're absolutely right! We should defund all police forces and disband them. While we're at it, we should repeal the Second Amendment and not allow anyone to own a gun. That way, all crime will go away. After all, if it weren't for cops and guns, there'd be no reason for people to commit crimes. Right?

RyunaFS

3 years, 11 months ago

link

Edited 3 years, 11 months ago by Owner

artstyle is okay-ish, but could use an extra tooth or two.

Vaxis

3 years, 11 months ago

link

Trying to emulate Ken Penders?

ironleopardstudios

3 years, 11 months ago

link

well i thinking to giong destroy all of my police memorabilia and scale models

Dgtdgt

3 years, 10 months ago

link

I think you are getting so much rebuttal for saying all are bad rather than all are bastards. Good people can be bastards, by just going with the status quo and not doing anything to stop the wrongs of colleagues. If all cops were bad, things would be even worse than they are now, and that's saying something. Calling them bastards is a call that the good ones need to do something or they are lumped in with the bad ones.

SonicSpirit

3 years, 10 months ago

link

@ Dgtdgt

I mean, fair enough, and you're not wrong that things could be worse than they are. They just also could get a lot worse, real quick, and putting pressure for at least some oversight is imperative, because it very clearly is not happening.

I tend to veer away from the word "bastard" just due to some personal baggage, but if we're going to go into semantics, all cops are complicit in a system that's structured in a way that maintains and penalizes poverty, encourages desperation through homelessness, starvation, and lack of access to medical care (including mental health care), and demonstrably victimizes people of color, particularly Black and Indigenous POCs. So...I kinda stick by "All Cops Are Bad" because the system of policing is bad, and there are better, more helpful places to put the money that maintains it...which would incidentally also reduce crime.

Dgtdgt

3 years, 10 months ago

link