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WhiteSky

Regarding latest Inkbunny changes

So I just now saw that Inkbunny made some policy changes in regards to 3D models on the site. That I'm seeing this now and reading some of the comments and replies make it *seem* like they deliberately were trying to hide them. They say that they "sent out emails to let people know of these changes" but should understand well enough that not many people will see it. All other furry art sites announce changes on their site itself with big announcement screens, instead of a barely noticeable new news journal on the homepage under all the submissions.

Then comes the change itself, it was clear to me that the staff is pro-AI with their one policy change years ago in regards to allowing genAI on the site. Then I read a comment of one of the staff saying that the majority of users are against genAI, so then I do wonder why they even allowed it to be here in the first place. But these changes make their hypocrisy clear. 3D modelers having to do the same thing as genAI people for some odd reason. Out of the blue, saying that "these rules are more open now". Even though it doesn't seem like there was any rule about that to begin with. And hiding that reasoning behind "no, it was the screenshot rule", makes this more apparent.

I don't know how I feel about all of this to be honest with you. This makes me want to abandon this site altogether and go to other sites like Furtastic and the new SoFurry. Why can't they be transparent and don't see what users think about changes before doing anything? Why can't they make it clear when changes occur? They even say they "talked for half a year about these changes", when it doesn't seem like they ever talked to the users and instead use this wording to mean "only us staff and moderators talked about this for half a year" but not even making it clear that this is the case. It just feels like they don't want to state the obvious, how biased towards AI and against its users this all is.

Their wording is all over the place, trying to avoid to mention specific things, contradict each other and themselves. I'm sure they know that these kinds of sites who allow cub art are rare, so it feels like they know they have a monopoly in that sense. And reading that one comment from a staff about KammyKay making their own site came across as passive aggressive to me.

I do wonder what future policy changes are going to happen. If writing or music comes next and Inkbunny will turn into an AI art site instead, if it isn't already one. There's a reason e621 made e6ai to separate these two parts of the internet.

Not sure what the staff is going to do about me voicing these opinions, but I hope I'm free to voice my displeasure like this, because I haven't really talked about how I feel about this site this openly yet.

I'd like to know what you guys think about this and what you think I should do. And let me know if I'm wrong in any of this. This is just what I read and understood.
Viewed: 71 times
Added: 2 months, 2 weeks ago
 
Kadm
2 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree with you that we could have made a bit more clear that changes were happening. When we decided to post the News item, I decided that we wouldn't do a banner because I thought that accounts were still opted into site news item notifications by default. That turned out to have changed some years back, and so a lot of newer users don't get emails for news items the way that I thought they did (a consequence of email providers anti-spam measures). In the future, we'll ensure that there's a site notice on the top of the site, though I assume we'll still have people that will miss it.

But as the people operating the site, we did not allow the majority of 3D works before we made those rules, and it being here was a result of us being understaffed and not being able to keep up with enforcement. We reached a point where we were able to get ahead of enforcement (around April last year), and decided that it was time to write a better policy, and so we did, with a mind to actually allowing 3D content and expanding it as we worked through things. We still intend to expand those rules to allow additional content in the future as well.

But I'm pretty adamant on the attribution requirements that we wrote. The fact of the matter is that a majority of 3D content on Inkbunny utilizes models that require you to attribute the 3D modeler in order to utilize the model, and almost all of the 3D content submitters on Inkbunny weren't doing that.

At the end of the day, when Inkbunny launched and we decided what we wanted on the site, the 3D content landscape was much different. We were originally focused on not allowing things like Second Life screenshots to clutter the site up, and in 2010 SFM didn't exist, and Blender was a much less widely utilized program than it is now. It's a failure on our part that we didn't keep up with rulemaking around the growing space for content, but we're working through our issues.
Stratus
2 months, 2 weeks ago
I never really understood the 3d content policy before but the moment you mentioned second life I immediately understood lmao. Totally understandable how it got to where it was before.
Kadm
2 months, 2 weeks ago
Everything is rooted in history. I think most of the staff when the site was created really did not like what we saw on FA with huge amounts of Second Life screenshots being posted. We wanted to see if people made models, but just buying a model and then stuffing it on poseballs? We didn't want that.

I think an area we originally neglected was the amount of work that could go into texturing and customizing a model. That's why the new policy has more carveouts for work done to customize an otherwise licensed base model.

SecondLife may basically be dead, but the stance is basically the same for things like VRC. The new rules make more clear allowances for limited display of things that you've customized, but it's still separate from fully rendered 3D works that aren't a game.
WhiteSky
2 months, 2 weeks ago
I understand your reasoning behind SecondLife, GarrysMod and screenshots as a whole. But those aren't what 3D modelers are doing when they use models like Sonic and Tails (for example) to make their own scenes with backgrounds and all. Even if you make the model of them yourself, they still might look close if not similar to the official models.

And having this policy and then allowing genAI? I can't articulate it very well what I mean and even if I could, it would be a similar discussion you already had with WhiteWhiskey, but it either doesn't seem like you understand that point of view, or you just don't agree with it anyway. Of course, you guys can do with your site as you want, but it seems to me that ever since genAI was allowed, this site feels just another FurAffinity situation, where content gets stricter and art gets banned. Might as well call it FurAffinity 2.0 at this point, only difference is that it didn't allow genAI.

All I can do for now is wait and see.
Kadm
2 months, 2 weeks ago
I completely understand that 3D rendered content is separate from those things you list as examples. But as far as we were originally concerned, it wasn't something we intended to be on Inkbunny, and it was only here because we didn't have enough staff to actively remove it.

That said, we've got changes to the 3D policy in discussion that extend the types of allowed content and are less restrictive on model use when there's significant effort to producing a render or animation.

I don't really care for the analogies between 3D works and generative AI submissions. The two things aren't related at all, regardless of people's perceptions. We needed new rules around 3D works, because it wasn't something we originally intended to allow, and so a lot of the rules were not congruent with the content. Additionally, as I mentioned above, there's a huge attribution issue with 3D use. Our requirements for 3D are significantly less complex than the rules for AI, and much easier to meet.

The goal in writing the rules was to take what we were enforcing (no 3D unless you made the models yourself), extend them to allow additional content, and build out from there to gradually allow more. There's definitely some stuff that we simply don't want (like models ripped from games), but the goal is to be more inclusive over time.
KammyKay
2 months, 2 weeks ago
Hi WhiteSky ^^ Thanks for the follow! You're welcome to join the new site when it's ready :D

WhiteSky
2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thank you, I'll gladly join, but I also want to make it clear that I still try to form my own opinions/experiences (something like that) first once it's ready. But it's enough for me to try it out if it doesn't allow any genAI at least. I'm getting tired of seeing it everywhere, especially in art spaces these days.
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