Defenders of generative AI never talk about by CookieSkoon < Journal

SissyLeo

1 week, 3 days ago

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And that's only compounding the fact AI is being used to replace actual workers too. Not just things where it's a retail self service kiosk, but design and production jobs too.

The fact AI often "hallucinate" and add made up data like it's the truth makes this even more concerning. Last year a lawyer used ChatGPT to.write up a brief on a case and it used entirely legit sounding but fake legal cases to support his case. Upon closer examination the judge saw the false data and threw the lawyer out. He lost his bar license fortunately, but it only shows the flaws in its ability to "research" and comprehend data.

Gelemar

1 week, 3 days ago

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@ SissyLeo

Exactly! You need only look at the video game industry for proof of this. So many companies have already begun to mass fire their workers in exchange for slopping up their games with AI. Like the new CoD, which I don't play or support, had a lot of AI slop in a recent battle pass and axed the people that would actually work on the art and such for them. It's disgusting. My work is starting to implement AI for "customer ease" and it's already got me worried.

SissyLeo

1 week, 3 days ago

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@ Gelemar

And those examples are just art. Not even things like research where made up data can have even deeper consequences. If an AI makes up data or hallucinates when writing a report on a new cancer drug, it could either approve something that's useless, outright harmful, or even deny something that could have been an excellent new treatment.

Granted, art is a focus on the site, but the R&D side of things does warrant concern too.

Gelemar

1 week, 3 days ago

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Edited 1 week, 3 days ago by Owner

I actually got a flyer saying they're trying to build a data center around here, out in the boonies, and I wonder if it's for AI purposes... I agree with all of this, the negative ecological impact of AI is going to further tear our planet into a state of critical pain and nobody wants to have conversations about that shit because don't talk bad about the thing that lets you make art without the need of a single shred of talent.

evoyager

1 week, 3 days ago

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Going to be honest I never thought about it. Mostly because this sort of thing is already happening thanks to stuff like Bitcoin mining and the works. People forget there's a cost for everything even if it's just the generating and story of the electric data

RunicMyth

1 week, 2 days ago

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Edited 1 week, 2 days ago by Owner

Because the internet and other modern conveniences don't also have an energy cost.

Because someone dabbling in a hobby (say for example, chemistry) with their own equipment is not the same and does not have the same effects as a business producing the same sorts of output on an industrial scale, no matter how loudly some chai-sipping hipster wannabe who's never even cracked a textbook on ecology but wants to pretend to be an environmentalist claims otherwise.

Because this is transparently just people who don't like something new finding any way they can to whine about it and give them an excuse to dismiss opponents as "drooling chodes," whatever that's supposed to mean. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DaedalusXII

1 week, 2 days ago

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Edited 1 week, 2 days ago by Owner

@ RunicMyth

Hello drooling chode. How are you doing?

DaedalusXII

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ RunicMyth

Also, you're a guy who just consumes AI slop art on this site without ever asking yourself, if you can pick up a pencil and do it yourself.

There are legitimate concerns about how "AI" as implemented by the weirdo tech billionaires who are pushing it, will affect all kinds of industries negatively. And here you are, the mindless, drooling schlub who gets his kicks looking at AI slop cub porn, trying to dismiss the worries of artists and people who understand how damaging handing important tasks to just AI would be to life in general.

RunicMyth

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ DaedalusXII

"Blahblahblah I got nothin' so i'm gonna spew insults and pretend im intelligent like a lobotomized magat."

Very nice, Daedalus. Too bad your "art" isn't even up to the level of your arguments.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ RunicMyth

Stupidity. It cannot be reasoned with. You are a shining example.

Immature. Stupid.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ RunicMyth

The common argument stupidity uses is to simply ignore the facts and belittle the truth sayers, while convincing themselves they are the truth sayers.

The difference between those of us with the truth and people like you, is we can keep pointing to evidence and you can't.

I bet, however, if I were to source articles to you, your first response would be to belittle the source itself as a biases in and of itself. Yes? Would you then counter with any sources? If so would they be something radically right wing which has been debunked repeatedly by credible organizations?

This is a cycle I am so accustom to at this juncture that I no longer even bother to try. Information is not hard to find, but a lot of people love stopping at the misinformation for personal confirmation bias.

Another common tactic you displayed is to bring other topics in to the discussion in order to distract from the point. As though I do not also care about those issues or wouldn't have a point to make about them, either. Frankly, you are incapable of understanding the word, systemic.

However you conflated less impactful issues to a much greater problem we are currently facing, at the same time. A third common tactic.

You are, in fact, a drooling chode.

RunicMyth

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ CookieSkoon

Well, you've shown who you truly are here. Nice projection, much wow.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ RunicMyth

Whatever, dipshit.

DaedalusXII

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ CookieSkoon

He really is an idiot. Look how he instantly attacked my art because I pointed out that all he ever did was consume AI slop art and never had the imagination or patience to try and draw himself. Called me a "brainless magat" when he himself is basically the proto-typical maga moron with his huge levels of projection and senseless arguments.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ DaedalusXII

The dumb was so off the charts I couldn't even process it. lol

Your artwork is perfectly fine. Just attacks from a loser.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ DaedalusXII

This is their profile info btw-

"If you reply to a comment of mine and I find I have been blocked from responding, you will be immediately blocked and banned in return. Yes, that means you, AI-hate spewing cowards that I called out on their bullying BS. If you're unwilling to hear a voice of reason, you have no right to future replies."

This person is SO up their own ass despite being objectively wrong. Literal textbook specimen of stupid.

DaedalusXII

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ CookieSkoon

Yeah I saw that too... Pure projection and hyper-sensitive reactiveness probably due to a couple of people pointing out just how dumb and soulless AI "art" is.

All of his recent favourites are AI generated slop of god-knows how many scraps of art produced by real artists so that he can look at cub Nala or some other well known about and very often drawn character.

A sad, sad individual.

Wdeleon

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ RunicMyth

"Because the internet and other modern conveniences don't also have an energy cost."
...My dude, a candle and a forest fire are not comparable in their "energy cost." You really ARE a drooling chode to open so disingenuously.

"Because someone dabbling in a hobby (say for example, chemistry) with their own equipment"
You're not "dabbling in chemistry." You're having a brainless automaton "dabble in chemistry" for you, while you learn nothing and develop no actual skills, then delusionally call yourself a "chemist."

"Because this is transparently just people who don't like something new"
BREAKING: People have good reasons not to like being stolen from by trillion dollar corporations, while having products built on that theft used to destroy the job market and replace genuinely creative efforts with meaningless slop!
FILM AT 11!

worldf0x

1 week, 1 day ago

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@ RunicMyth

While you might "Dabble in a hobby," where you have a localized instance and maybe it doesn't consume all that much energy (it does consume more energy than average computer usage, though, and most modern conveniences actually try to reduce energy costs, so I'm not sure what the heck you're talking about there), MOST people will be using are using larger corporate models that report back to huge compute farms that suck up rivers of energy.  MOST people aren't computer literate enough to have their own setup, they just use whatever they end up googling.

Also every google search now has AI response attached to it.  This isn't some hobbyist tinkering in their garage, this is the world's largest search engine affixing an AI prompt onto every single search, so even people who don't want to use AI are using AI every time they search for something.

Also most companies are jamming AI into every device they can, whether it would benefit from it or not, and not allowing their customers to opt out.  My phone (which I bought before AI was a wide-spread thing) downloaded an OS update (mandatory, you can put it off for a period but it will forcibly download the update whether you want it to or not), and suddenly the button that I'd normally use to shut my phone off instead brings up an AI assistant.  There's a way to change that button, and a way to force-stop the AI app, but it's still on my phone, and I cannot remove it.

Lawd, I wish it was just hobbyists "Dabbling."

dmfalk

1 week, 2 days ago

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The real reason why would scare you.

Consumer level AI doesn't even use these computing centers at all, as the typical AI generation consumption can be handled on typical PCs.

But those who use high-level AI tools-- usually military, scientific and most importantly, data-mining (but not what you think!)-- they're the ones using these centers.... And not on ordinary computers or mainframe systems, either!

They're using quantum computers. Computing beasts that require supercooling power that is far, far greater than the power normally consumed.

The military uses AI for cyber warfare.

And what data-mining, you ask? Crypto currency mining. This actually takes the biggest amount of computing, of any task, and they're using AI and quantum technology to do it.

AI has been around a lot longer than quantum computers, and has never required such energy usage before, but with banks of quantum computers, each requiring more energy than your home uses in a year, per day, someone's investing in billions of dollars in quantum AI and all at everyone else's expense, including environmental waste.

That's the real AI "gold rush", not ChatGPT or Suno AI.

d.m.f.

dyspneumeo

1 week, 2 days ago

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@ dmfalk

This is just a load of nonsense. Quantum computers cannot run AIs. Quantum computing cannot mine cryptocurrency. AIs cannot mine cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency mining is not related to data mining.

Streled

1 week, 2 days ago

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Let's not forget that it need a shit tons of water to cool down
And said water being used is clean and potable... wasted

Waccoon

1 week, 2 days ago

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Over the last couple of years, I've noticed a HUGE slowdown of practically everything on the Internet. I have a feeling that the massive bandwidth of AI crawlers is gutting performance of everything across the board. On top of that, all the anti-bot stuff (like Cloudflare) is making the Internet borderline useless for real people.

Can we just rewind history by 20 years, please? I'm really getting sick of tech companies trying to ruin society.

CookieSkoon

1 week, 1 day ago

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Edited 1 week, 1 day ago by Owner

@ Waccoon

I agree, and have noticed the same thing. Captchas are nearly impossible for me due to my cognition problems...

I am seeing more migration to federated internet. In fact, a friend of mine is setting up a Discord replacement for my server now.

I think Web 1.0 MK II is about to crawl back.

SherryDomino

4 days, 22 hrs ago

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The Luddites were right.

Zazel

1 day, 13 hrs ago

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I would say most don't talk about it because it's generally a weak counterargument to generative AI. It's convenient to blame poor resource management, unsustainable resource production, and corporate greed on generative AI, it's sort of missing the forest for the trees that is very common in liberal spaces though, in the end the real problem is the aforementioned. Data center power consumption has already been increasing at a rate that has not gotten the proper consideration for some time now, genAI has only accelerated the process, as did cryptocurrency, social media, video streaming, and ease of access to high speed internet before it.

There are much more useful arguments against generative AI that don't require nearly as much hypocrisy in their use. The further hyper-commercialization of art that has been going on for the last 20ish years being the best one, imo.

CookieSkoon

11 hrs, 12 mins ago

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@ Zazel

Your reply is extremely frustrating. I definitely don't like you surreptitiously calling me an idiot or a hypocrite. That's unappreciated.

It's frustrating because all you've done is just smugly tell me things I know under the assumption that this one journal I wrote would be the whole and sum of my entire opinion on everything, ever, all the time, in all the spaces. Why would you think that? Must I detail my thoughts on the entirety of a situation and every possible tangential thread every single time I post about a subject? Or, can I share my thoughts on one portion of that subject and assume others have the intelligence to extrapolate that there is a mutual understanding afoot?

It boggles my mind that people assume that, just because I did not directly mention it, I must never have considered it. I cannot possibly have an opinion on any other facet of the issue or related issue. Me am so dumb dumb stupid durr drool.

You say this - "genAI has only accelerated the process" YEAH. GEE GOSH AND GOLLY FUCK COULD THAT HAVE BEEN WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT PERHAPS!? Nah, it's no FUN if you come in here and make that assumption, because then you can't talk down to me, can you? Gotta go with assuming I'm a fucking moron.

Also PLEASE stop assuming everybody on the left is a liberal. I am not a liberal. I am a socialist democrat (that's democrat as in the descriptive, not the party).

I do not know what your goal is, but you sure accomplished stressing me out.

Zazel

10 hrs, 10 mins ago

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Edited 10 hrs, 6 mins ago by Owner

@ CookieSkoon

I didn't call you an idiot, and tbf everyone is a little hypocritical, but that doesn't make you a hypocrite, and I'm sorry if it came off that I was calling you either, I wasn't and I don't think that.

I was just talking about what you stated in this journal, and why I personally believe it's not a particularly strong argument, you'll have to forgive me for not making assumptions about your opinions on the subject. You may understand the generative AI is just an exacerbation of an issue and not the primary issue itself, nowhere did I say you didn't, in fact I'm really not sure why you are framing it like I 100% disagree with you.

I'm not assuming everyone on the left (or you specifically) is a liberal, the think of the environment argument for gen ai is just very common in liberal spaces because of it's reactionary sentiment, so sue me for bringing it up.

I think it'd be a little goofy if I thought everyone on the left was a liberal considering my personal political views, but if you do want to bring up social democracy, it is a particularly reformist system that supports the idea of moving towards socialist policy within the bounds of liberal democracy and capitalism, it's entirely possible to be a socialist democrat and still carry a significant amount of liberal beliefs.

My goal was to discuss the topic of the journal, if that's allowed. Everything I brought up was to enforce my personal opinion that it is an argument not worth mentioning. Imagine if i had just said "because it's a bad argument lol" what kind of pointless response would that have been? I really only talk to anyone that could be considered "left" about politics because most conservatives don't even have the basics of reality down and it's just an exercise in futility to discuss anything with them, though every day I'm reminded that, even though they have a more realistic view of the world, it's not much better with western moderate-approach leftists either.

Slimurgical

15 hrs, 28 mins ago

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That's also not to mention how much water AI datacenters use. It's actually absurd how much, we're talking more water than what goes through every nuclear reactor on earth, only we're talking for a single of the biggest datacenters compared to all those nukiebois.
Because the only way they can effectively cool those data centers with them being as dense as they are, is through evaporative cooling, aka to make water evaporate and take heat with it (it's actually insanely effective, problem is that it's wildly wasteful with water). You could probably take the entire collective ecological impact of all email services on the planet and it wouldn't compare to that of AI by probably entire orders of magnitude.

Just be warned about Quantum Computing, because that's the next ecological disaster for very little objective benefit to humanity that's imbound.

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