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Makroth

Antiheroes suck

by
Anti-heroes encourage authoritarianism. What is the most common reason anybody would ever root for them? Because the ones that they're fighting against are much worse. Of course you're supposed to root for the Imperium. You don't want Space Satan to win. Do you? You can see very similar attitudes IRL. You don't want the islamists to win, do you? Of course you don't! Therefore those recent decapitated babies that Israel is responsible for is conpletely justified. We need to behead their infants before they behead ours./s

And no. Space Satan being real or fake changes absolutely nothing to me.

It's something that's been stewing around in my head for a while now. I've slowly come to fucking despise anti-heroes. And people that resemble them IRL. Like Trump, Netanyahu, Putin, Bukele, Duterte and many more. And all their enablers.

Orks are the best 40K faction, btw.
Viewed: 62 times
Added: 3 months, 3 weeks ago
 
51 Comments on this Journal
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Icestorm
Icestorm
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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they always seemed like edge lord bait to me.  And yes they lead to situations where crushing of civil liberties come in to play. The watchmen come to mind.  
GreenReaper
GreenReaper
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ozymandias sure sorted things out there, though, right? At least for a while.
StarRabbit
StarRabbit
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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The point of Watchman was that people like Ozymandias are psychos who see normal people as pawns to be sacrificed so people like him can 'win' the proverbial game. They're not to be admired, idolized, or praised, because their 'great works' are built on a foundation of sand and will crumble away. That's why he's named after the Pharaoh who boasted of works so temporary only his boasts remain.

And just like the Pharaoh, the supposed 'peace' the Watchman character sacrificed millions to achieve will crumble away because he didn't actually solve anything.
GreenReaper
GreenReaper
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
He sacrificed millions to save billions... for a while, at least. Doctor Manhattan agreed with that enough to vaporise the avatar of justice (at least as he saw himself). Of course, everything crumbles in the end - the cloud that the Doctor disappeared in hints at that - and if they don't nuke themselves they're likely to turn into Fanatic Purifiers; but hey, he tried!
StarRabbit
StarRabbit
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I'm an Anarchist, myself, and so is Alan Moore, so I might guess that a big part of where Moore was coming from with Watchman is the idea that none of these characters deserve praise or idolization because they're all idiots who missed the obvious solution. I.e., Dr. Manhattan could have easily just vaporized Nixon, whoever the leaders of Russia were in the story, and all of their sycophantic bureaucracy, and achieved the same goal by merely sacrificing, at most, hundreds. But all of the Watchmen characters are too blinded by worship of a system, and the false belief in its necessity, to see that the system, itself, is the rot at the core of everything that is wrong in the story.

This is the root of why Ozymandias's solution was no solution at all. He didn't sacrifice millions to save billions. He sacrificed millions to maintain the same rotting, corrupt power-structure that was threatening those billions in the first place.
GreenReaper
GreenReaper
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I guess the question is how much the system changes when people unite against the perceived threat. You're probably right that it wouldn't last. But history is full of examples of that, yet somehow we're still here. Maybe we'll manage to get off the planet before we reduce it to ashes.
Makroth
Makroth
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Owner
Getting off the planet is not the solution at all. We need to stop the people currently reducing it to ashes. Here's a hint: the responsible ones are far, far fewer than you think.
Makroth
Makroth
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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I greatly prefer the comic over the movie.
Makroth
Makroth
3 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is the most comments i've ever gotten on a journal here. Neat!
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 4 days ago
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Decades ago I used to collect comic books, including the Watchmen.  It was good in terms of atmosphere, but the story had plenty of holes in it.

Vietnam was President Lyndon Johnson's war, not Nixon's.  He would have gotten the glory if he won.  (And he died in 1973 of natural causes.)  And winning a war doesn't mean the people will keep loving you.  Ask George H. W. Bush.  Or Indira Gandhi.  As for the fear of nuclear weapons, why couldn't Dr. Manhattan just vaporized them all?  Or for that matter, he could have deposed the Soviet Union.  No mention of Afghanistan?  Or Islamism, which killed far more many people (including Muslims) than any other religion?  Alan Moore is not as sophisticated as he thinks he is.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 3 days ago
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Edited 3 weeks, 3 days ago by Owner
And why couldn't the Soviet Union fire all their nukes while he was tearing shit up? Also, is he supposed to kill every single Muslim? Should he wipe out the Christians after he's done? You think Moore didn't think of this? You think he hasn't been asked these questions?
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 3 days ago
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Like I said, I don't get the idea Moore actually knows the USA very well, being British.  This may apply to you too.  As for Islamism, it could be wiped out by crushing its leadership.  Ordinary Muslims are not going to kill themselves if they think they won't get anything out of it.  And the Soviet Union died without a shot being fired, despite all their nukes.  Thena again, they feared getting blown up too.

Incidentally you left many of my questions unanswered.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 3 days ago
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Edited 3 weeks, 3 days ago by Owner
It has no leadership. Do you not know how these things work? Why am i asking? Of course you don't.

The Soviet Union died from within. They weren't going to nuke themselves.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 3 days ago
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Yes, but at the time everyone was saying that the Cold War would go on until the USA and Soviet Union would nuke each other.  I'm sure Alan Moore himself, as well as plenty of leftists, were shocked that it ended peacefully.

And you think Islamism has no leadership?  Maybe not a single person, but a movement dies when people don't follow it.  Look at the terrorism and radicalism of the 1960's and 1970's.  It died out from lack of popular support.  Most college students went to university to get their degrees and get good jobs, not because they were political radicals.  Even a liberal high school teacher I had admitted that.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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So if i kill all the Christian leaders, will all the religious discrimination laws be repealed? Will new ones stop being created? I repeat: You do not know how this works.

Also, those college students gave you your reasonable work hours, your Civil Rights Act and many more. You're welcome.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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Like I said, I assume you aren't American because all these things were not due to college students.  Working people and their unions were the ones who got us shorter workdays.  Nonwhites and their organizations got rid of antidiscrimination laws.  People tend to solve their own problems, not waiting for agitators to descend like the Lone Ranger.

And when was there any Christian oppression?  Maybe centuries ago?  If you want to look for slavery and genocide nowadays, you can thank mainly Muslims for that.  Though I don't claim that only Muslims are guilty of these things.  Thgousands of Sikhs were slaughtered in India when Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her own Sikh bodyguards.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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Edited 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Owner
How did they do that? Hm?

There is the anti-gay bill in Uganda, the witch hunts all across Africa, the anti-blasphemy laws in Russia, the overturning of Roe V. Wade in the U.S., all the religious exemptions there, and many more. And many more are on the way.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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It's what the people want.  And as the old saw goes, rulers stay in power at the consent of the governed.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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Hahaha! No. No. No, they don't. Are you actually dumb enough to believe that? Is that something you ACTUALLY BELIEVE? Please say "yes". That would be hilarious.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 2 days ago
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You never heard of revolutions?  Or mutinies?  Or leaders forced out of office?  You need to get out more.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 1 day ago
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Yes. Those happen. And they prove definitevely that riots work and are a good thing. They don't happen nearly as often as they should.

Are you actually deluded enough to believe that the Ayatollah governs with the consent of the governed? Or Putin? Or Kim-Jong Un? Or the Taliban? Or Trump?
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 1 day ago
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Actually yes.  If nothing else, revolutions often produce worse governments than the ones they replace.  The Iranians didn't love the shah.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks, 1 day ago
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/hard-hat-riot-19...

Bet you never heard of this.  I did in high school.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks ago
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An astroturfed movement. And the U.S. still lost the Vietnam War. Womp womp.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks ago
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No, it was real all right.  Hippies and leftists were a lot less benevolent than depicted.  And ironically Vietnam would get in its own "Vietnam's Vietnam" when trying to prop up its puppet government in Cambodia and failed.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks ago
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Edited 3 weeks ago by Owner
No. It wasn't. You skipped right over the part that proved it wasn't. But ultimately, it doesn't matter. The hippies won that one. Good on them. Those were the real patriots. The people actually defending our rights. Not the worthless soldier ants sent to fight on behalf of the elites. Or their enablers.
LongTom
LongTom
3 weeks ago
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The student protest movement accomplished nothing, except maybe lowering the voting age to 18.  It took the general public to say no, and even then we left gradually, expecting the locals to fend for themselves.  Nixon was no conservative, if you look at his record, even though the student protest movement made him the enemy.  When he left office, it all fell apart.  Very few hippies stayed as they were and went to rejoin the regular society.  I know hippies existed in Britain and presumably the same thing happened.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks, 6 days ago
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The general public would not have said no without the student protest movement. Every single right we have came about because of people being disruptive. Rights are taken by force. Never in our history have we gotten them by asking nicely. And we never will.

Nixon WAS a conservative. If you actually look at what he stood for.

And it doesn't matter. The hippies won by stopping the war.
LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks, 6 days ago
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It was public opinion.  There were draft riots in New York City when rich people could buy their way out of military service, and not everybody in the USA supported the US Civil War.  That didn't stop the victory.  Vietnam was not considered worth fighting for after a while.  Ironically China itself would launch a brutal invasion of Vietnam after a few years.

Looking at what happened with the government under Nixon's watch, he could hardly be called conservative.  Ask any conservatives about him.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks, 5 days ago
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WHO changed that public opinion?

He was conservative. He launched a campaign to trample over minorities. And before you go "But Clinton", know that he was also right-wing.
LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks, 5 days ago
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Bodies coming from Vietnam plus the fact that no progress was being made in the war.  Trample over minorities?  That ended before Nixon even took office.  In fact plenty of liberal programs such as bussing for integration and the 55 mph speed limit and the Equal Rights Amendment happened under his watch.  (All of which would disappear.)  And you're right that Bill Clinton was hardly a liberal President even though the liberals made him a hero.  Note that he has fallen off the map.  And his wife ran on his name, but she proved so awful that though people were not enamored of Trump, they decided they were better off with him.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Yes, he did.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nixon-adviser-ehrlichma...

And people voted for Trump in order to stomp on those beneath them.
LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks, 4 days ago
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People voted for Trump because THEY were being stomped on and reduced to poverty.  He even got a significant vote from blacks and Latinos which says plenty, because they don't vote Republican.

If you did a modicum of research, most people in prison are violent hardened criminals.  Even the New York Times had to admit that the prisons are not full of nonviolent drug dealers as the rumors went.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Um, no. They voted for him to stomp on others. His previous term made them poorer and they vited for him. His current term is making them even poorer and they still support. For fuck's sake, his approval rating went UP after the latest Epstein scandal.

And bo, they admitted no such thing and you're talking out of your ass.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2025.html

https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/mass-incarcer...

Lemme guess: You're also gullible enough to believe that all those 200 people the Trump regime to that concentration camp in El Salvador were gang members. Because his goons said so. Or if you don't, you're hateful enough to not care.
LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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They were definitely El Salvadoran nationals, so we had the right to send them there.  And how do you know they weren't gang members?  Blind faith?

Yes, how stupid of us to vote for the man who gave us jobs, peace, and prosperity and vote him back in when we suffered the disaster under the Democrats.  WE were the ones being tromped on.  And we are better off now than we were then.  It may not be what you want to hear but truth is truth.  And as for the Epstein "scandal", if it were real, it would have been exposed years ago.

Your "I'm smart and everyone else is stupid" view doesn't sit well with us who really know what is happening.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks ago
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Edited 2 weeks ago by Owner
Hey, remember Abrego Garcia? The Trump regime showed us nothing to prove they were gang members or that they came from El Salvador. Those are the actions of an administration that is doing illegal things. Again. You believe they were all gang members not because proof was offered to show that, but because King Trump said so and his word is absolute to you. He gave you neither of those three things. And he will never release the Epstein files because he is a pedophile who is on those files. If he wasn't, they would have been released.
LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks ago
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The Epstein files were known long before the Trump administration.  Certainly Biden could have done so-unless they either contained nothing incriminating or people on his side of the political aisle would also have been incriminated.  You may have heard the story of how Dan Rather lost his CBS career when he put out supposed proof that President Bush was AWOL during his years in the National Guard.  The papers were obvious fakes and actual records showed Bush was not AWOL.  Even Walter Cronkite, who also despised Bush, said Rather was rightly ousted.

As for Abregio Garcia, I have no proof one way or the other that he was a gang member.  But the question was whether Trump had the right to deport him anyway, and why he would he be imprisoned in El Salvador unless he had committed a crime there.  You may have heard the story about a man in Spain who committed several murders and fled to Venezuela, which has no extradition treaty with them.  Venezuela sent him to the USA, which does.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks ago
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Edited 2 weeks ago by Owner
Your God-Emperor promised to release those files. But he won't he has something to hide. Just like he has something to hide about the people he deported. I don't care if my fucking parents are on that list. I want those files released. But Trump, the child-rapist won't allow that. And if Biden blocked their release, i would also assume he's a pedophile. And unlike Biden, Trump is making sure they stay hidden.

Again, TRUMP OFFERED NO PROOF. Of course he has no right to send him to El Salvador, cultist. They can put him on trial, and if they find him guilty, they can send him to whatever prison is appropriate. That's how these things work. I don't give a shit about the man in Spain.
Makroth
Makroth
2 weeks ago
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20r07dg6kro

There was hardly anything before 2024.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-biden-admi...

Here's some more inconvenient facts you'll ignore.
Makroth
Makroth
3 weeks, 3 days ago
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LongTom
LongTom
2 weeks ago
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Edited 2 weeks ago by Owner
I read the article.  There was plenty before 2024.  Like over the past decade.  And if there were any evidence he was a pedophile, Trump would have been outed for it long before. Yes, there was Jimmy Savile, but I can't believe anyone running for high office wouldn't be outed.  Ask Anthony Weiner.

Maybe you should realize that perhaps the people who were sent to El Salvador were sent there justifiably.  And the Biden economy was an unmitigated disaster, despite what the revisionists say.  Why The Democrats pulled him out of the running for reelection.  Fake news articles are a dime a dozen, as I said.  It turns out that Mathew Shepard wasn't beaten to death for being gay, he was simply the victim of robbers.  But that doesn't suit the narrative I know.
Makroth
Makroth
1 week, 5 days ago
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There are MANY people who have been outed as pedophiles and still kept their jobs. If you have proof there was anything significant before 2024, then show it.

And again, NO PROOF HAS BEEN OFFERED for why any of those people should have been sent to El Salvador. If there was any, they would have shown it. But you don't care. Dear Leader said they deserved to go there and you believe him without question like the good little zombie that you are.

And according to the actual stats, which i have posted, which you will not read because it is heresy, Biden was great for the economy. That is a fact. And your feelings don't care about facts.

“In his confession to authorities, one of the murderers repeatedly used homosexual slurs when he talked about his victim. As a defense plea, this man claimed that Matthew Shepard had touched him, and that this suggestion of a sexual advance threw him into a fit of insanity which led him to commit the brutal murder."

Mathew Shepperd was killed for being gay. But that's inconvenient, so you'll ignore it.

If you continue ignoring reality, i'm blocking you. This is getting tiring.
LongTom
LongTom
1 week, 5 days ago
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I'm not ignoring reality, you are.  Every American knows that Biden was an unmitigated disaster.  No amount of crank articles can discredit what we Americans see for ourselves.  Why do you think the Democrats themselves pulled him out of running for reelection if he was doing so well?  It's not about feelings, it's about facts.  But you want to believe what you want to believe.

As for the man sent to El Salvador, I've seen no proof he was innocent.  I've heard about "innocent" people who were tremendously guilty.  Why should we take your world for it?  And why should we believe that people outed as pedophiles go unpunished?  Ever heard of Jared Fogle?  Or Rolf Harris?

And Mathew Shepard was not murdered for being gay.  It's a rumor that fits a political narrative, but as fake as Jussie Smollett's faked beating by supposed MAGA people.

You are guilty of what you accuse me of.  I'll leave.
Makroth
Makroth
1 week, 5 days ago
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Buddy, you have presented nothing to prove ANY things you're talking about. Not a single fucking thing. You're under the impression that your word is law, just like that of your god-emperor.

You need to show me proof that Trump was better for the economy. You need to show me proof that Abrego Garcia or any of the 200 he just decided to throw into the concentration camp were guilty of anything. Proof that what i presented showing he was murdered for being gay was not true. Proof for ANY of your claims. I presented evidence. You presented nothing.

Are you going to start presenting evidence or do we end this right now?
LongTom
LongTom
1 week, 2 days ago
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I cannot prove that the Moon isn't made of green cheese either.

But we Americans do know from personal experience that we had high inflation during the Biden years, and it didn't end after Covid was declared over.  We don't have it with Trump in office.  And jobs are being added, you can look up financial news yourself.  Why do you think Biden was pulled from running for reelection in 2024?  It was Lyndon Johnson in 1968 who was the last US President who got pulled by his own party from running again, and any look at US history shows how rare that is when it comes to running for President.  You showed one article saying that the economy was good under Biden.  Lots of news articles pop up that prove nothing.  I remember an article in Playboy magazine supposedly proving that sexual repression creates sex criminals, but audience feedback shows nobody was convinced.

As for Matt Shepherd, all I have to go by is the Wikipedia article I saw.  Yes, there was the US Navy sailor years ago who WAS beaten to death because he was gay, but that was proven in a court of law, presumably using real evidence.  Do I know that Abrego Garcia was guilty and warranted deportation?  Not absolutely, and I know about false criminal convictions.  But where is the proof he was being railroaded?  Certainly somethign would come up.
Makroth
Makroth
1 week, 1 day ago
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Buddy, i don't need to prove jack shit. You need to prove that all of those 200 people are guilty of anything. You, or preferably the Trump regime. If you can't prove it, the accused is innocent. You need to prove these things BEFORE sending people to jail. That is how things work in courts of law. At least they do when the system is not being run by corrupt, self-serving reprobates. So do you have that proof or not?
Makroth
Makroth
1 week, 1 day ago
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LongTom
LongTom
1 week, 1 day ago
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Trying to prove inflation was bad under Biden and no longer so under Trump is like proving to someone in the center of a building whether it is raining outside or not.  I'm going by what I've seen and what others have said.  Common sense if nothing else says that if things were doing well under Biden, the Democrats would not have called for him not to run for office again.

Did I not admit before that there have been people who were convicted and imprisoned who were innocent?  The case of Gary Dotson was of a woman who accused him of raping her, he was convicted, and years later admitted she lied.  Of course the public wasn't convinced she was telling the truth the second time.  She might have been paid off to change her story.  That's why it finally took DNA testing (which was new at the time) to exonerate him.

If someone comes to the USA illegally, they are typically deported back.  If someone comes to the USA illegally and commits a serious crime, they are tried and convicted.  Nobody's opinion is relevant, except for the people directly involved.  Not even that of the President.  I have no idea of what Abrego Garcia did or didn't do.  I di assume El Salvador is his country.
Makroth
Makroth
6 days, 23 hrs ago
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Edited 6 days, 23 hrs ago by Owner
For the love of all things fuck, you STILL haven't presented evidence for why those people deserved to be sent there.

HE WAS NOT TRIED OR CONVICTED. None of those people were. But he was still sent to prison. He was eventually brought back, but that's beside the point. All 200 of those people need to tried and convicted BEFORE they are sent to prison. That's how things work in countries that aren't authoritarian shit-holes like the United States of America.

You unfathomably dense motherfucker.
LongTom
LongTom
6 days, 22 hrs ago
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You need to get out more.  People can be convicted, after a trial, on false or incomplete evidence and have been.  It's just not in old noir stories from decades ago.  If you're such an expert, maybe you can explain the process of deportation when someone is not known for committing other crimes?
Makroth
Makroth
6 days, 9 hrs ago
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These people have not been convincted on any evidence. They have been sent to prison without any trial. That's what i keep trying to tell you. They've been deported without anyone being told what crimes they have commited.
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