Welcome to Inkbunny...
Allowed ratings
To view member-only content, create an account. ( Hide )
Dewebu

Make your voice count, solidarity matters.

by
I know I might not have the reach in audience of a certain cookie, but I feel like after seeing quite a few artists that I enjoyed and looked up to leaving the site due to what I feel is a massive overreaction, I must speak up about this issue.

I need to say it, as a Trans artist myself I feel that leaving the site to go to "Safer" spaces such as bluesky and the like isn't really going to do anything to improve Inkbunny. What seemed to have sparked this sudden push for queer artists to leave is the revelation that the head Administrator is a mildly transphobic libertarian chud, and that his lax moderation has allowed for the harassment of specifically queer artists on this website. This revelation has escalated to the idea that the website is somehow compromised by the right wing and therefore unusable for queer folk.

I'm lucky to never have experienced transphobia here in all my years, despite my outwardly trans or GNC OCs. Neither has anyone I've known before this incident. If you've experienced transphobia on IB, that really sucks; it isn’t fair and moderation should be paying attention to resolve this issue if blocking and other direct means don’t work. What I've seen though suggests that the problem isn’t as common as people say. 

The point I'm trying to get to is that this website is largely queer centric, it's main contributors are generally queer themselves or allies and this is a somewhat unique space where there exists no divide between the "Mainstream" queers and the "Problematic" queers that exist in other websites such as Twitter/Bluesky.

I'm about as queer and left as you can get, I understand the fear and panic that the American presidential administration has brought to a lot of people. I also fear that the world is getting more callous and cruel, and that there eventually won't be a space for queer individuals to exist. This is why we need to fight and exist louder and prouder than ever, to maintain control over the spaces that allow us to do so.

From my past experience with moderation about the Ai situation, they seem to be keen on the idea of people cultivating their own experiences, be it through tags, blocking, blacklists and the like. I fully understand that these ideals were birthed from the sudden enforcement of partisan rules that Furaffinity had placed on their users a decade ago. I’m highly skeptical of Inkbunny’s leadership because in the past they’ve generally been unwilling to do anything more than the bare minimum. Their default stance is to do nothing, which functions as a double edged sword in the sense that we can be as loud as we want without being banned, eventually forcing the site’s administration to change once enough voices cry for it in unison. It genuinely feels crazy that we’re worrying about the head mod’s personal opinions when Ai is a much bigger threat to the site’s artists.

We aren't inkbunny employees, as queer artists a strike/boycott of our presence practically means nothing to the administration. Our voices are heard when we are on the site and we are being as loud and annoying as possible, and yes posting our art is part of being loud and present.

I do not feel like the site has been compromised to the right wing, and believing that it is, engenders the idea that our presence here as queer artists means nothing. When that really couldn't be further from the truth. No website truly has your back as a queer person. Bluesky has had issues about banning prominent transphobic figures despite their general audience wanting them gone, Aethy nearly collapsed due to the admin's fear of being targeted by the trump administration, Baraag has a few pretty prominent chuddy artists and can sometimes be a rather uncomfortable space to be in as a queer person. No site is perfect, and I agree that inkbunny has a lot of problems that need to be solved, but we won't get them if we're not here to fight for them!

If you take one thing from this journal, it’s that I know It's hard and scary to see how the world is right now. I'm afraid too, I'm afraid that the world will just be too hostile for someone like me to exist in, but I'm a lot less scared when I'm surrounded by a community that's willing to be by my side hand in hand when the going gets rough. This is a very unique space where we're celebrated for being furries and queer artists, no other website is specifically like this right now and we’d NEVER be getting it back if we allow it to slip from our grasp.

If any admins are reading this. Please do better. I've only spoken up on a few issues that truly bothered me about this website, but you need to understand that you have to TAKE ACTION and listen to your users. We're here because this space is truly unique, and we want to help you improve it. But we can't do that if you don't do anything no matter how we express our concerns. What do you want this space to look like in 5 years? Right now, with tons of queer artists leaving, we’ll be left with nothing but AI generated nazi cubs. And that’s a sad end to a website that was built on the ideas of freedom of expression. Be professional, apologize, do something.

If things don't change, I will continue to be loud and present about these subjects, and I encourage others to do the same. BE LOUD, BE HERE, BE PROUD.

You really think any of the more normie queers on bluesky care about that "Cubsite" and the artists on it, that they'll make a big movement to bring in some sort of change? They won't, to them we are an inconvenience, to the world we are degenerates. But to us? To me? I really think the queer artists on inkbunny are some of the most wonderful people I've ever met. There’s nothing more beautiful than being able to truly and honestly express yourself. There aren’t many spaces left where this is the norm, and if we lose it, it’ll be gone forever.  
  
Join me, stay by my side and fight, and we’ll win.
Viewed: 731 times
Added: 1 month, 1 week ago
 
SWEETMISSION
1 month, 1 week ago
Hear hear.
Ryuun
1 month, 1 week ago
I'll be as obnoxiously queer as it takes to make the bigots fuck off <3
ManicMoon
1 month, 1 week ago
That´s what I was trying to say some of the people, who left. Running away isn´t going to solve anything. But all I´ve got as a reply was beeing blocked.
beforethefall
1 month, 1 week ago
The only thing I'd like IB mods to do is make it possible to hide my content completely from certain accounts when banning them. Blocking interactions only goes so far.

Very balanced and realistic take though, the way you make a space better isn't by leaving it (that just gives the shitty people the win of getting rid of you...if you keep running eventually they'll figure out that all they have to do is follow you until there's noplace left to go.) it's by being louder and shouting shitheads down every opportunity you get.
Telain
1 month, 1 week ago
Blocking others from seeing your posts is not done because they could simply make another account. Unless we did something to police never having multiple accounts come from the same IP, that could never be controlled, and doing that would lock out any users that use a proxy or other service for their own safety as well as require additional work to deal with multiple users in the same household.
beforethefall
1 month, 1 week ago
Yeah, it's an imperfect solution at the end of the day, I agree, but it'd feel nice to be able to intentionally deprive people of my content if needed, lmao. It won't stop dedicated hounding (but no amount of blocking/banning would do that anyway).
StarRabbit
1 month, 1 week ago
The issue is; 90% of people who would like to harass a creator are lazy enough that making another account just to do that is a bridge too far for them. Hiding content from parties banned from one's account would be a vast improvement, even if it would not be a 100% improvement.
PantyRanger
1 month, 1 week ago
This journal makes the most sense than every journal I seen on this subject.
DownThePipes
1 month, 1 week ago
Well said hopefully things will get better but we need to loudly call for it to do so
GratitudeAdvocate
1 month, 1 week ago
I really REALLY FUCKING WISH WE COULD FAVE-ADD JOURNALS. ❤️

Thank you for putting my very same thoughts into cohesive words that I can read, understand and comprehend figuratively.
As destructive as things may seem to be on IB with some of its admin staff, this shepcoon certainly isn't going anywhere anytime soon. A select few users on FA seem to want me dead and buried forever and ever over pithy lame-ass ungrateful reasons, while most of the other webpages I have any association with in regards to furry are mostly inactive. Dead to the water, so to speak... or type. :)

Inkbunny is currently my one & only go-to hub of anthropomorphic content. Without this place, there's not very many other safe places for me to express my writing and such unto others, which is lame. In other words:
All work and no play makes me a very, very, incredibly sad shepcoon. :(

Let's hope that widespread apology rings true and sooner than later! I'd hate to see any of my own friends personally ditch this place just because they fear the promise of divisive transphobia-fueled bigotry running rampant at its core foundation.
ArionEquus
1 month, 1 week ago
Most people lack critical thinking. This leads them to enact policies or take actions based on what their emotions tell them will make things better rather than doing the things that will actually have the effects they wish to see. It's a very human problem, and everyone is susceptible to falling to it. It's just become somewhat worse because it's so much easier for people to network now, and feed off each other's outrage and emotions.

Which leads to a lot of harm being done purely on good intentions. A lot of segregating. A lot of Us, vs Them, and if you aren't one of us. You're clearly one of them. Tribalism, an evolutionary defensive mechanism that no doubt helped out quite a lot for us while we were bludgeoning each other over differences of opinion. Now makes it incredibly difficult to any sort of meaningful discussion from which common ground can be found, and actually causes metaphorical "bludgeoning" of various types as people take actions toward each other.

Actively trying to "punish" others for ideas they don't agree with. While using their own ideals and ideas as justification for this abhorrent behavior. Despite the fact that their behavior is, objectively, often much much worse than the ideas, and people who hold them, who are the proposed villains.

Too many times in the past the "bad take", or whatever you'd like to call it, has actually turned out to be the correct take. Too many times the person who was right all along had to suffer, and be suppressed. A society that wants to progress doesn't suppress ideas. No matter how bad you think are. You have to simply put faith in the fact that society, as sub group such as this website or as a whole, will work out the correct ideas on it's own. But, the only way that can happen is if everyone participates. Running away from the problem does not progress anything. It just creates tribes.  

Then there are simply the people who seek personal comfort, and take no considerations at all for improving anything. Including themselves. And I can't necessarily fault them for this. Improvement is hard.
gigawix
1 month, 1 week ago
Treating every idea as equal is only a good idea in an alternate universe where it's equally easy to build something up as it is to destroy it. There are arguments that cannot be engaged with without degrading yourself and the discourse. I and others believe that transphobia is one of them. One group wants to exist, the other wants that group disenfranchised and destroyed. It's not a debate.
ArionEquus
1 month, 1 week ago
You are still playing that game. The one where you make two tribes. Define their ideas as absolutes, and pit them against each other.
SkyeEldrich
1 month, 1 week ago
Thank you.  This journal says a lot of what I've been thinking for a while, and I've used it in posting my own response to the current controversy.
Bloodhawk
1 month, 1 week ago
this journal is a breath of fresh air
Alfador
1 month, 1 week ago
YES!
StarRabbit
1 month, 1 week ago
I must say, I don't appreciate the dismissive and reductive language of this journal.

GreenReaper's comments were more than just 'a little transphobic.' They were a promise that the concerns of IB's queer community will fall on deaf ears, and that even if there are sympathetic mod staff they will be walking on eggshells if they try to police the fascists harassers on this site. One really only needs to look to what became of Twitter to see what happens when a site's owner is permissive of fascist agitators, and that a few mods that might be 'on our side' will not make up the difference.

To describe this as an 'overreaction' is grossly insensitive. People are rightly scared right now. GreenReaper's mismanagement of this site started long before this drama and has left people understandably shaken and lacking confidence in this community. The flood of AI slop, the permitting of pro IRL pedophilia discussion that was only banned about a year ago (and GreenReaper had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into banning that stuff, I should add), and now the flood of unashamed fascists screaming how the queer community should not exist and being allowed to do so so long as it's disguised as 'art,' or 'civil opinion,' all of it adds up to a reasonable lack of confidence and a sense of being in peril.

I'm sorry to be so heavy handed in my criticisms. Honestly, you make some very fine points yourself. This has been a unique space for the queer community and I appreciate the desire to fight for it. There is more than a little to like in the idea of being 'loud and proud' in one's queerness just to piss off the fascists. It even convinced me that I should make some LGBT pride works just to post them here. But I just felt I needed to criticize the minimizing of valid concerns. Fascists, especially emboldened fascists with the backing of the site-owner, are not known for their patience, nor their dedication to peaceful conflict resolution, and we live in a time where cub-creators are getting e-stalked and dox at an unprecedented rate. I will never blame anyone for taking what they feel are necessary steps to protect themselves.
Dewebu
1 month, 1 week ago
I personally do not like what Greenreaper said, I guess I considered it "mild" because it wasn't an outright hatred of trans people, I'm probably too used to hearing worse. It genuinely felt what the median voter in the USA tends to think about when it comes to pronouns and trans sports. He's wrong, stupid, and he clearly hurt his friend group since they punished him for it rightfully. Obviously the friend thing struck a nerve with him and he holds some kind of grudge that fuels his beliefs, but I'm genuinely glad that his dumbfuck ideology doesn't allow him to apply that to any kind of rules to the site.

I'm not trying to be insensitive I suppose, I know people are scared. I get it, I'm terrified too, and we need to have each other's backs when it comes to this. I feel a lot less scared about the state of the world knowing that I can log onto this website and see the beautiful art that my queer peers have created without compromise. You've just said it yourself, it took us dragging Green kicking and screaming for him to do anything about the CSAM traders and MAP posters. Maybe some of us just walked away at the time because it made us uncomfortable, but I'm glad people stuck around to voice their opinions and force the moderation to do something. I'm thinking the same can be done again, that we can easily drown out these fashies because we vastly outnumber them, that we can convince those that are on the fence to be on our side. I have no trust in our moderation, but I do want to have trust in our community. Our queer art and our voices mean something, I just want people to know this.

I appreciate the criticism, the reactionary part of me just wants to say: "You cowards, don't run away! I can't go anywhere else! Please help!" I know that's not fair for them either, and I'm sure they had their own valid reasons to leave to what seemed to them to be greener pastures. It makes me sad to see them go, horribly, dreadfully sad, then I get mad because I feel like I can't do anything about it. I really don't want to lose hope, I want to be able to continue to make my art without any kind of limitations. This site's one of the last few we have to post with this kinda freedom, and I feel like its worth fighting for with the reach and power that we have over it.

I never said "Shut up and just get back to posting" we need to be loud and we need to get the moderation to hear us. Posting art is an important step be it related to this topic or not because it gives us views and reach. Aside from that we can continue to write journals, file tickets to those that are harassing our allies, and maybe even form an intra-community blacklist of sorts. I feel like I barely even see nazis and nazi art on the site at all, I'd really love to be able to just have a list and never have to deal with them. The more we can take eyes away from fascists the better, we just need to have better art and a better community to convince folks to be with us.
GreenReaper
1 month, 1 week ago
I think you both have good points. To be clear: you are, and always have been, welcome to post your art. But so are others. That's "the deal" with a site that's for the whole furry community. Not a fascist space, nor a queer space, but a furry space.

There's one thing I wish to push back on, as I think you've confused correlation with causation:
" eventually forcing the site’s administration to change once enough voices cry for it
MAPs were banned from advertising not because enough people made a fuss over it, or people were leaving the site, but because I agreed with the argument that the communications of most such accounts were likely for the purpose of evading the law. We'd previously removed links to copyright violations, so this was an extension of that. (It had costs on free expression for several 'innocent' members that were not engaging in such behaviour; and I regret essentially having to ban the use of a set of pastel colours, at least where they refer to a personal character.)

Likewise, we just closed a certain member's account - an action which may be greeted with celebration by some in your circle. I hit the ban button myself. But I didn't do that due to call-out journals, or political or social positions, but because they had been circumventing restrictions that had been placed on their accounts due to past incidents, for which they had been warned that there would be consequences across any accounts they operated.

That's what I suggest focusing on if you wish to improve Inkbunny - deliberate violations of the technical measures designed to allow you to control your experience and have your own space within the site as a whole - rather than trying to make it all your space by shouting loudly, which won't work and may lead some overzealous members to break the rules themselves.
Dewebu
1 month, 1 week ago
Good to see you here responding at least. I wasn't particularly vocal during the banning of the whole Map issue, but from what I remembered with the situation transpiring is that many users brought it to the attention of the moderation team, and that they were distressed that you guys hadn't done something sooner. With the Map folk, the situation was a lot more cut and dry since the material that they were talking about trading is illegal, but you need to admit that you paid more attention to it because people spoke out.

I feel like you're kinda hiding behind the vernier of technicalities, and that you're completely center-locked and apolitical when your moderation team makes decisions, when that clearly isn't the case. I really hope that you agree that the banning of unironic MAP iconography and pedophilia promotion was a good thing, from a moral and logistical stance, and not something you had to do because the activities those users were doing were illegal. You're human, you have your own sets of biases, and I believe that you and your team can eventually be swung if the community speaks out enough about an issue.

I'd also like to bring to attention to the AI issue that I had dealt with previously. You speak about how you'd like us to focus on the deliberate violations of the measures designed for us to control our experiences, but your team simply has no solution inscribed in the TOS to be able to force malicious actors who use Ai in their workflow to tag it as such. I was simply told by your moderation team that there wasn't any feasible amount of evidence that I could provide in order for them to take action. Your team has a bias, I think it'd be good if you acknowledged that fact.  

I'm asking my peers to stay on the site, be vigilant about issues, and to speak out when possible. I understand that Inkbunny is built as a space for freedom of expression, I don't need all right-wing ideologies banned or anything. But I do need your moderation team to take seriously when queer users speak out about harassment from bad actors who proclaim the harm and eradication of our groups. We are a large bulk of your community and the furry community at large, I just ask that you listen to us whenever grievances are legitimate and brought through the correct channels.
GreenReaper
1 month, 1 week ago
I may be human; that's not something I see as a positive, as should be obvious. 😼

I'm not sure what you mean by "logistical" above, as it seems to be unrelated to "moral" but more something like "we will run out of DB space with all these PMs". Regardless, the MAP decision was taken for the reasons outlined in this site journal. It was written carefully to try to accurately convey the reasoning, targeted groups and behaviour and limits to action, more of which can be found in this comment thread.

I guess it's illustrative to consider why zoophiles were not also banned from identifying themselves. From a moral standpoint, my personal view is that they are equivalently problematic because in both cases there is a lack of fully informed consent. But the legal situation is by no means as universal worldwide, and for this and other reasons we did not extend action to them.

As for the AI, going to quote someone else here:
" The system has a presumption of innocence. I don't think that's flawed. You argue that it has to be AI art for all of the little things that you point out, and other artists argue that those are simply human flaws. Do I choose to weight different artists opinions differently? You're really hung up on the way the idea that we have a very high bar for acting on your assertion, but would you not appreciate a similarly high bar were you on the other side of this?
Now, I did look at some of the evidence offered in that thread, this hue variance for example seems significant; then I realised it was so great because the area was essentially white, so any per-pixel variance - such as that which could be caused by a weathering dot filter across the whole image - would cause this. I looked at some AI content with similar areas of light and was not able to reproduce this effect. So yes, I think the image has been manipulated digitally to cause that effect, but probably not in a way that violates our policies.

Is it possible that this artist uses AI? Sure. And I will be disappointed if at some point this is found to be the case, because we've made accommodations for such content. But the evidence is not conclusive, and in the now-deleted threads on the work itself we found respected artists disagreeing on the matter.
Teegie
1 month, 1 week ago
maybe you and the ib staff should figure out what exactly you mean when you say an artist "used AI" if you want to know whether or not it happened. the terms here read like a 1690s ban on witchcraft.
Atrolux
1 month, 1 week ago
I don't believe for a second that the public fuss about MAPs and Pro-C pedos being allowed on this site and their subsequent banning and new rule being enforced to be a timely coincidence. It's bad PR to have pedos roaming around and you finally got some flak for it, and acted.

And just because some facists are furries doesn't mean they're genuinely a part of the community. That's a horrible false equivalence to spread around. They want to appropriate this space for themselves, and centrists like you help them do it as long as they follow your milquetoast site rules. That's why we need rule changes, rules that actually matter to the safety of your users.
GreenReaper
1 month, 1 week ago
As shown in the two links I posted above, there were people calling us out on it at least five months before we pushed out a policy change, and the general thrust of the response had already been decided at that point, but it took a long while to nail down the specifics. I am sure if you ask other staff they will be glad to confirm they have far more regard for "PR" than I do.

Let me rephrase that then: Inkbunny is a "furry art community", not "a place for [an exclusive definition of] the furry community to exist and post art". The focus is on the art - and, yes, stories and music as part of that.

Everyone gets to post journals as well, but their promotion is deliberately restricted to watchers (even then you can turn them off if you don't want to read them). Friends-only submissions and journals exist for "safe" distribution of art and opinions among a restricted group; the website as a whole is not a "safe space" for any group, and you may encounter content that disturbs, disgusts or even frightens you.
Mikolai
1 month, 1 week ago
I couldn't agree more. Very thoughtful journal and I wish I could fav it. :)
PronFoxMaster
1 month, 1 week ago
To be honest, the sad reality is that our assumptions on freedoms and rights are being proven rather wrong. Given that these idiots are rather infamous at invading other sites, we'll never be rid of them unless we do things that would not go over well with certain sensibilities (sensibilities that are wrong, but they're still sensibilities people follow).

As soon as we accept that the political philosophy pessimists are (at the minimum) close to the money, the faster we can move forward.

... and people wonder why I support things like getting rid of privacy altogether and putting the media to task (i.e., get punished) for various crimes...
Nightwind292
1 month, 1 week ago
Whelp, I just added you to my follow, just for this post, nicely said.
cathedgefire1000
1 month, 1 week ago
does make sense. better to be louder to drown out the hate.
FauxPika
1 month, 1 week ago
Being considered a freak and a weirdo by mainstream society, I gota say, if people think there's a safer place than inkbunny, PLEASE show the proofs. Because I've been in the fandom since 2002 and I have not found a safer place than inkbunny. Yes there are ALWAYS trolls and haters but that's EVERYWHERE. Including within your own micro community. I've been attacked by people who identify like I do. There's never going to be a 100% safe place but be realistic. This is relatively speaking a VERY safe space. Since I started posting my AI slop a year or so ago, I've had to block like maybe 3 whole people. In an entire YEAR. That's not bad people.
ruink
1 month, 1 week ago
well written
New Comment:
Move reply box to top
Log in or create an account to comment.