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the "cub" tag

So just to let you know, since I once again had a recomended tag "cub" in my scetch WIP.

I do not use the term cub.

To me the major tags for everything below 18 ist underaged or minor
Teen is not realy a set term, but usualy it's somewhat from 13 upwards? So it matches the age I am willing to draw very good.

Cub to me stands for child. Or even toddler. So everything below the teenage years.
Saying "i draw teen porn" is something I am not proud of. But at least it is sort of realistic. Many people have their first sexual encounter in the teenage years.
But I will never draw child or below. Simply because that is mostly unrealistic.
AND I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO POST SOMETHING TO PROVE ME WRONG, because there has been this one girls at age something that got pregnant while not even having tittys.
People even knowing that stuff, are sort of creepy to me and at high risk to directly marked as... Well you know what..

SO to clear this out, you don't need to suggest the term "cub" because I don't use it. It is an artificial term, that actually just mean young bears and stuff like this. And somehow turned into a word that replaced child and also underaged. But I don't want anyone to find me under the term cub! Because of that child connection. It's a hard line for me as an artist.

But to be fair, and to be a nice hypocrat, I also enjoy some nice Sicmop arts, or Dagasi. But as an artist, who hopes to somewhen maybe actualy do something public, I want to stay off the most contoversial themes.

Viewed:	130 times
Added:	6 days, 18 hrs ago 02 Apr 2025 13:24 CEST

13 Comments on this Journal

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toothandclaw

6 days, 18 hrs ago

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understandable!
though i think most people use it to mean "anthro characters less than 18 years old"
its a useful word as it has that anthro part baked in, and only has sexual connotations because hey thats the fandom for ya
its like the trouble with the word "child," which legally means anyone under 18
(any sexual connotations on that one are, well... that's humans for ya)
only alternative i know thats as concise is kemoshota / kemololi but as far as i know thats pretty squarely nsfw terminology and i have no insight on what age range iand t connotes
all language is "artificial" anyway—even though we have dictionaries, language is still changing and drifting, and most terms only mean what they are popularly understood to mean, which might be much broader or more specific than reference texts indicate

i suppose that is to say, dont take it personally when people continue to suggest the tag :)
you raise an interesting point, and i hadnt thought of it that way before, so thanks for a new perspective to consider

Karmandel

6 days, 18 hrs ago

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Edited 6 days, 17 hrs ago by Owner

I totally agree, and I somewhat erratically follow the same principle. Bear cubs, puppies, kittens, foals, kids, even human children in the real world are not sexually mature, and as soon as consent is even plausible it's not a cub any more. I tag teens and tweens as young and underage. (BTW, I think teen is well defined as age 13 to 19, because those are the numbers with "teen" in them. "Legal teens" in porn means 18 and 19. Tweens, now that started as a fashion marketing term, I think, "between child and teen," something like 10 to 12 but less well defined). Equating "child" and "minor" is a weirdness of the US legal system.

Balmung

6 days, 17 hrs ago

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I always thought it's a sort of a site tradition, it doesn't matter very much what specific tag it is.

I use it for everything underage just in case, and that seems to work fine. For me it's pretty much always tweens at least.

Karmandel

6 days, 16 hrs ago

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@ Balmung

That's not wrong, but then it's also valid to leave it out innit. At least for tweens and up. Maybe my best course of action would be to chill and totally ignore keyword suggestions if I don't agree.

GreenReaper

6 days, 3 hrs ago

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Edited 6 days, 3 hrs ago by Owner

@ Karmandel

It becomes a problem if it's the one everyone who doesn't want to see it has in their blocklists. The Keyword Policy lays out how this works. 'cub' is explicitly called out as a theme which must be included if it applies.

Now, I get the concern about accuracy, and in part I agree. My position is that 'cub' should be mandatory for preadolescents, and beyond that it's not something we should be enforcing.

That does imply having 'teen' or 'tween' so there's something reasonable for people to block who have the very real concern that their local authorities will consider anything raunchy involving those appearing to be underage to be a prohibited image. (We don't think furries count as 'persons', legally speaking, but that's the only real 'out' available for it.)

The original poster literally labelled some of their work 'CUB' in 72pt lettering three months ago, so I'm a little surprised this is coming up now. Maybe the issue is that the sketch concerned may look younger than '13' to a reasonable person, given e.g. the relatively small head/muzzle.

Karmandel

5 days, 22 hrs ago

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@ GreenReaper

Preadolescents should be cubs, is that it? But what does that mean? Wikipedia thinks it's more or less a synonym of "tween" and ends when puberty really hits. So I should tag my tweens as cub? (By the old definition, that's also "pubescence," when the body prepares for puberty; but there has been a slide so people now think that "prepubescent" means "preadolescent").

But you're also saying that putting "tween" as a keyword is sufficient and I don't need "cub"? (I also put "young" and "underage" for those under the US age of majority. Not all teens are minors, but mine usually are. Otherwise I'd leave out underage).

Official clarification would be nice.

And yeah, I'd have put cub on Zaik's sketch myself, because to me the boy looks much younger than teen or even tween. He may just be small for his age, my friend's son looked like that until he was fifteen or so, but you can't tell that from a picture.

ZaiksMcKraven

5 days, 21 hrs ago

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@ Karmandel

I have to admit, at the mentioned upload I used the term cub because I wanted that upload to be a bit more public and because everyone here calles underaged cubs. I wanted to get as many votes a s possible for the poll.

In the picture that it actually depicts I did not use the term.

But afterwards I sticked to my rule to avoid the term cub. Sorry for that confusion and I think I should take down this poll upload because the poll itself is settled by now. And it's not realy an artpiece.

And for the boy in my recent upload, I have taken a 3D model of a male character which was provided by Clip Studio paint.
Of course I have edited in my own style afterwards, but it's handy to set up difficult poses and arrange stuff.
Anyway, I have set this model to be 130 cm large. Madlaine is 175 cm.
Sadly I have no table which height is the average for a male /female teen at which years. So it was a wild guess. Maybe I will somewhen find a good chart I can sort of stick to. but being 130cm in the seventh grade doesn't sound that far off, does it?
Maybe it's the pose on his legs and the slight birds eye view that changes how "large" we see him... Does that make sence?

GreenReaper

5 days, 19 hrs ago

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Edited 5 days, 19 hrs ago by Owner

@ Karmandel

Yes, my apologies, 'cub' should include 'tween'. I don't use the word 'tween' a lot so I forgot it is essentially a term for preadolescence.

For what it's worth, https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cub says

"	A cub is a preadolescent mammal

and later:

"

Within furry fandom, the term cub may be used to refer from roleplaying grown up and adolescent human furries (e.g. Babyfurs, most often fursuited than not), to all imaginary, created characters under the age of majority, from babies to tweens.

This has particular relevance due to the prevalence of furry adult media in the fandom, which is often restricted using this criterion, but, because such drawings do not depict a physical person, it is impossible to determine their age, therefore some legal systems depend on analysis based on the psychical attributes of normal human development (breasts, pubic hair, muscle tone, and size) for age estimation.

Wikipedia has a nice chart showing the admittedly confusing combinations of terms.

Karmandel

5 days, 18 hrs ago

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Edited 5 days, 18 hrs ago by Owner

@ GreenReaper

So cubhood ends at puberty, OK. Well, one of my main OCs is clearly in the throes of puberty, but not a teen yet (it happens) so I assume she doesn't need the tag. But the other one is flat as a pancake, so it seems I need to adjust my keywording practice. (I need to cogitate about what to do when the artist makes her look adolescent. I won't name names here, they know who they are).

One guy on here used to grumble about searching for cub and finding girls with tits. So

Legosikun

6 days, 13 hrs ago

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Fair enough

Geoffberg

6 days, 8 hrs ago

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I think that mindset is a valid one. Nowadays, everyone wants to bundle everything "under age of adulthood" as cub. Just like the U.S. legal system still considers everyone under the age of 18, even a 17 year old, a minor. There are well-known tags to represent the different age groups of characters: baby/babyfur, toddler, cub, tween/preteen, teen. Each one provides more than enough indication as to the age range of a character. If certain people are hesitant on this fact, they can blacklist all the tags or blacklist them for the ratings they don't want to see. I think just using one word that a lot of people associate with underage really isn't a proactive way to doing things. There are different age groups for a reason and while one might not want to deal with any imagery or written material that has to do with underaged characters, someone else might call it at teen or preteen. Being allowed to pinpoint the age of the characters should be commonplace and, in my opinion, a good practice to use. Just my two cents.

Karmandel

5 days, 19 hrs ago

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@ Geoffberg

I have no problems with calling a 17yo a minor, because that is a well defined legal term that says they cannot, for instance, sign for a bank loan. There may be slight variations between countries, but 18 is a very common cutoff for that and has been for a long time. "Underage" is a near synonym, but is more about the age of consent (which varies more widely, though I'm fine with using the US federal definition of that). Calling them children is what I disagree with.

Geoffberg

5 days, 15 hrs ago

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@ Karmandel

I hear you. And I think that was on my mind when I stated that 17yos being called a minor. Most of the time, people will instantly think a minor as a child by default. When I was 17, I thought myself more of an adult than anything else. And I see your point using the term in a legal-sense for signing contracts, buying x-rated material, playing the lottery, etc. I'll even 'bend the knee' when it comes to the legal age of drinking being 21 even though in other countries, it's as low as 18 (I think the mindset in the US on drinking and the volume of it being consumed should be validity enough as to why it should be 21). Ask any teenager if they mind being called a child. Most of the time they will say yes and to call me a teen or a soon-to-be-adult. And in certain situations, I've even remembered myself thinking a while back that the age of adulthood should go back to 16 (I think it was for a very short time a long time ago). But GreenReaper kind of put my argument to rest at this point.

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