Inkbunny

It's an endless ocean of text, but I don't even know how this reddit thing works. I have yet to see something there that isn't a rendered truetype font. XD

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ Meowz

Most of the posts on r/StableDIffusion are SD3 gens now, so you can just click on the image thumbnails.

I think this image summarizes advantages and disadvantages of SD3 the best. 😁

Guardianslade

9 months ago

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I didn't know 2.0 or 3.0 was censored, how in the world does it censor stuff? Does it just not generate, or block words or what? I figured it was just sort of open source whatever. I have not tried anything past 1.5 though, as my computer cannot handle it, low GPU.

Totter

9 months ago

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They didn't include any spicy data in the data set, or trained it to NOT reproduce those parts of images correctly.

What do you get when the input space is well rendered genitals and the output space target is noise? Something that noises over genitals!

Guardianslade

9 months ago

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1.5 still has been the best for me, I simply wanted more tools for more control. It already has a good deal of them. If eventually they add something that helps separate prompts so you can have more than one character, and it doesn't get confused, then it would really be something.Maybe it already has that, it's been a bit since I checked. But SD 1.5 wins for me in that the Loras are very small, usually 18-25 mb, and the program itself is relatively small. *Pony uses 4x more electricity per image and loras are around 200mb, that's just way too much when you have 200+ lora characters, poses, etc.

Honestly, censoring SD 3 makes it pretty much useless, sigh what a waste.

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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If you want character separation in SD 1.5, Regional Prompter for A1111 exists. 😎

SD3 is supposed to understand separate characters much better, as well as relative positions and stuff, but this improvement in understanding prompts is useless if it can't draw a human. 😆

Guardianslade

9 months ago

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I've tried it, and it's very very close, but still not quite right. Often the prompt will still blend characteristics into the other character, which can be a great thing if intended, but also if it's not what you want, is a bit frustrating.

But yes, it's much closer! We need a true separation of prompts. Honestly, I would have loved to have seen a super optimization type update for 1.5, so it uses less electricity. If people have not already found out, using your own pc to generate is not cheap! And when you start doing a "control net, region prompter, multi lora combo, on my rig at least it would really increase the time it took to make one by about 5x. Overall, pretty amazing, and actually useful results though. *not a "single character in a generic and useless boring pose", like most results tend to be*

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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I think Regional Prompter does provide clean separation, but you need to be careful with the blending ratio, the difference between ADDCOMM and ADDBASE in various scenarios and stuff like this. 🤓

One thing I'm not sure about is how edges between areas work. This is where blending happens no matter what, naturally.

PegAIsus

9 months ago

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I dont use regional Prompter.. Im mixing em together via Photoshop. 😁

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ PegAIsus

Photoshop collages are the tried and tested method, but it can easily lead to mismatched foreground and background. I've seen people magic-wanding with obvious messy outlines, which works, but doesn't look pretty. 😆

Totter

9 months ago

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Edited 9 months ago by Owner

I think the biggest issue here is that people are just way too hesitant to get their hands dirty by doing such bold things as just drawing the line art or repainting parts themselves (especially with txt2img and "overpainting")

There's not going to be any shortcut to getting the composition you want short of drawing most of it yourself, because "a picture is worth a thousand words".

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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If you have a very clear idea of what you want, I think sketches work pretty well even now and the process can certainly be improved even further. Besides sketches, I saw ControlNet models for lighting and other things.

Eventually, fixing dumb stuff like fingers should a thing of the past. But judging by SD3, it won't happen tomorrow. 😆

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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There're different approaches to censorship. SD 2.0 is infamous for having a "clean" dataset where any image with skin visible wasn't included. This, among other issues, led to SD 2.0 and SD 2.1 being abandoned by everyone. 😆

OpenaAI used a different approach with DALL-E 3, where they included all sorts of porn in the dataset, but then removed some of the knowledge from the models while aligning it; and then added 7 layers of text and image classification on top to avoid nudity.

It's unclear what StabilityAI did to SD 3 exactly, but it's probably dataset purging and/or knowledge removal. The big SD3 model sitting behind API isn't as censored, but it has image classification as a protection, afaik.

"	I figured it was just sort of open source whatever.

It's non-commercial weights-available. Almost none of the widely used models are actually open-source, but rather weights-available with no restrictions on commercial use, usually. 🤓 SD3 adds the non-commercial restriction.

Guardianslade

9 months ago

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Soo.. wait, if you make stuff with sd3 you can't sell it? Or use it for patreon or to make comics to make a profit with then? Sheesh it really is useless then. Time to find a new one, or just keep polishing up 1.5 till it's better than anything else. You know, kinda like how the oldest version of skyrim is the best with the additional 1000+ mods. They put out new versions, and people were like.. heh these are garbage, just play the old with the mods.

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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StabilityAI is selling the right to use SD3 commercially at a pretty small price. But it's a huge issue nonetheless, especially when fine-tuning.

PegAIsus

9 months ago

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you earn money with AI Pictures? O.o
Im not selling em. Why should i?

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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Edited 8 months, 4 weeks ago by Owner

@ PegAIsus

There're lots of users on DeviantArt who sell paid access to porn images as a subscription. There're also people offering commissions on Etsy and the like, usually not disclosing that AI is involved. 😐 Anything actually big, like an artist commissioned for 5 figures to draw cards, becomes worldwide news. 😁

With generative models being so new and unreliable, there aren't a whole lot of obvious examples of creators building business on top of AI, but AI being usable commercially is a huge selling point of AI going forward. 😎

PegAIsus

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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If your asking me, I dont know what I should say bout such behavior.
I mean, yeah.. Last pic i did took about a week, lots of photoshop, inpainting, outpainting aso. Its not that easy to connect 2 different species together.. XD But Im not sure if I should take money for it.. I would rather prefer a tip in my Koffee Account maybe, but im not pushing ppl to it.

Totter

9 months ago

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:/

At least 1.5 models and XL models are still just as good as they always were.

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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Well, yes, but I wish there was more progress. DALL-E 3 is way ahead of SD XL, and Sora is way ahead of DALL-E 3. Open-source community is like 2 generations behind at the moment. 😟

Totter

9 months ago

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It will almost certainly be this way until the open source community just gets together time and resources to train up a truly open advanced model without any such bullshit "alignment".

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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The problem is that the open-source community doesn't have $10.000.000 to $100.000.000 to spend on training an uncensored model. 😁 Until NPUs and TPUs become dirt cheap, we'll have to rely on commercial organizations.

Totter

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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I'm expecting it to take about another year or two for older processors in the high powered space to really be attainable by the end user market.

LuckyDaWolf

9 months ago

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Well, I didn't expect the first public models to be ideal for what we do, but once we get a good furry model, or something like Pony for SD3 hopefully that should help, right?

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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@ LuckyDaWolf

Pony on SD3 may not happen, due to the non-commercial restriction. 😕

CiviatAI: Towards Pony Diffusion V7... I mean V6.9!

It's also unclear whether SD3 can actually be fixed and will be an improvement over SD XL, because base SD XL is better than base SD3, it seems. 😟

LuckyDaWolf

9 months ago

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Oh, yeah I see what you mean, but I'll try to remain optimistic. Otherwise, I guess I should stop putting off learning XL now. Since the only reason I wasn't is I didn't see why I should when SD3 was coming up.

hoy829

9 months ago

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I lost interest the moment I found out that SD3 does not support nsfw.

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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Edited 9 months ago by Owner

@ hoy829

None of Stable Diffusion models "support NSFW", technically. StabilityAI always tried to make the model produce SFW images. I don't think any of base SD models would draw a horse dick when asked to. 😁

As long as a model is capable of drawing a human shape, teaching it to draw a pussy at the intersection of the limbs doesn't take much. The problem is that SD3 has issues with human anatomy no matter clothed or naked.

Blackraven2

9 months ago

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Prior to 2.0 it drew it - and then a second model would go over both the prompt and the result image and censor it if it thought either was NSFW (NSFW prompt or model accidentally created NSFW)
disabling that was changing one line of code (just don't run the second network) so in 2.0 they changed that in excluding any nudity from the training data - the network doesn't know how nude ppl look like anymore. this is especially apparent when trying to "imply" nudity with a "harmless" prompt - such as people swimming or bathing.
the network still answers the prompt but puts people fully clothed in the water and similar ridiculousness.

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ Blackraven2

I've noticed that Meta's Imagine model, when asked for a swimming person, always uses weird camera angles so that almost no skin is visible. 😂

picker52578

9 months ago

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Waiting for version updates and breakthrough restrictions.

AutoSnep

9 months ago

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@ picker52578

So far, only the pony folks have proved to be able to fine-tune models of SD XL complexity. If they don't do it (due to the non-commercial restriction or something else), we don't know anybody else who will. 😆

Teddy

9 months ago

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Much like SD2, people will just keep using what works for them despite the newest shiny.

Cracks are starting to appear in the SFW filter tho..

https://civitai.com/models/511228/sd3-boobs-unchained

Otterball

9 months ago

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I hope there will be some real development in the NSFW space soon. Damned corporations and their 'investor safe' attitude.. I'm really jealous of the Corporate and Useless Bing Image Creator, how much better it understands the prompter's intent (it's far from perfect, but still much better than SD, which basically doesn't "understand" anything).

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ Otterball

Corporations developing AI aren't even the ones to blame here. Sure, Google with its brain-dead leadership exists, but I'm sure at least some of corporations would happily sell porn if they could do it without going bankrupt. 😁 Sam Altman totally would, he openly said that.

There're several reasons they can't sell porn models though:
1. Religious population of the US seeing porn as evil
2. Fearmongering about CP being abused by governments to keep idiots busy
3. VISA and Mastercard abusing monopoly to support these beliefs

Someone controlling a public company just can't release a public uncensored model. The world around can't accept it. 😐

Meowz

9 months ago

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Edited 9 months ago by Owner

My god I'm so hopeless. Haven't learned anything because that stuff just refuses to brain with me. All I see is mumbo jumbo and nothing has any kind of accessibility. Like, just give me a prompt and spit out an image. Instead, it's like I'm looking at a DNA strain and expected to know what every link does. How do you all do this? How?! HOW?! ... The answer is just gonna be more mumbo jumbo.

Edit: Man, sorry, I sound harsh. But that harshness is directed at myself, not you.

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ Meowz

Complexity depends on the client you use. Open-weights models are behind in terms of base quality, but the open-source community builds a lot of tooling around them. That means that if you want to get a decent image from a local model, you're stuck with way more complex user interface than, say, Bing Image Creator. 😆

That being said, simple clients do exist. You don't have to use A1111 and especially ComfyUI just because they're the most popular. 😉 I think that by now it's possible to find a client which can be run by just downloading and double clicking it.

Meowz

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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Oh oh! Double click! :3 I know this! I can do this! ;3

Oh man, I apologise that I am being silly like this. But yeah I would greatly appreciate a "client". And then something, that also explains itself, in the simplest terms, without assuming that I know the terminology. No mumbo jumbo. I know english. Give me english. That'll do.

Hope you are doing awesome by the way. :3 I admire what you can do, and we share such a bunch of good kinks.

dmfalk

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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In all honesty, and I'll say it here for now, but we need a semi-open forum for us IB AI enthusiasts (not live chat, but a forum for those of us who can't keep up with live chats) to discuss AI usage and learning within IB compliance. (I say "semi-open", as in anonymously readable, but must register to post/reply, and have new members moderated..... This is just one reason I wish IB actually had an internal forum server, considering the nature of IB... It's hard to find a suitable place for discussing the kind of subject matter IB has!)

d.m.f.

AutoSnep

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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Edited 8 months, 4 weeks ago by Owner

@ dmfalk

Web forums are essentially as dead as mailing lists in the modern Internet. 💀 Discord's threaded channels are probably the closest you can get to a web forum without it being dead on arrival. Considering Discord's restrictions on cub porn, a Matrix server might be more appropriate, but I doubt it's possible to get more than 3 geeks in there, let alone get them to discuss anything. 😁 Some AI directors also tried Telegram's threaded groups, but they don't seem all that populated.

I'm an old fart who misses web forums of the past too, but I think threaded chats is the closest we got to web forums in a long while. 😁 I just wish browsing discussion history wasn't as painful. 😆

dmfalk

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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Especially for those of us who want to keep up with what's available.... I mean, I've been tinkering with NightCafe.studio, but its neither cub nor NSFW-friendly..... And not everyone's on the same page or timeframe, insofar as discussions go, which makes many other sites, well, as you say, a bit painful to go through..... So for those of us here on IB, the best we've got are these journals and submissions, and we just need to keep informing each other, somehow......

d.m.f.
(Old is relevant, unless you're like me, pushing 60....... 😲 )

Blackraven2

8 months, 4 weeks ago

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