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Sponch

Some good news, and some bad news

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The good news is that we hit 700 watches! Many people have shown appreciation for my creations, and it means a lot that I'm able to make something people like so much.

The bad news, is that we lost another fellow AI director. The hateful masses of Inkbunny that HATE AI art had ganged up on him and got his account deleted.

I can't believe how pissed off I am about it because Inkbunny is shamefully violating their core philosophy and letting their personal bias influence their actions and letting their integrity be eroded by these shitbags.

It says they value "artistic freedom above all else", unless you make AI, then here's all these rules of what you can and can't do.

It says "Don't worry too much about piracy. Yes, you just read that in the rules on a commercial art site. We're here to do things differently for a change!" unless you want to harmlessly make AI for your own personal interests and have ZERO shown interest in monetizing your works or stealing other people's fame. AI generation isn't stealing, at BEST it's a "Fan Art Simulator" AND this rule existed LONG BEFORE AI art generation was even a concept.

It says not to bully other people, yet some of these "normal" artists have filed over 100 tickets against AI artists for the things they make, and then the admins ban people without warning. This also violates their other principle of "Deal with it yourself" by just adding those tags on your blacklist and NOT bothering the admins about your petty problems.

And one of the rules regarding posting AI is that you can't use the works of artists that are living or haven't been deceased for less than 25 years. This rule is actually the most bullshit of all, and here's why. The OVERWHELMINGLY VAST MAJORITY of furry art in general is less than 25 years old, let alone there's any reason to think that artists would have been deceased for longer. On top of that, these AI furry models are ALL based on art that was interpreted from e621, from LIVING artists. Even if you don't use artist's styles directly, EVERYTHING GENERATED still uses mathematical data used from current artists. ON TOP OF THAT.... the expectation that ANYONE is supposed to know actual, real life, personally identifiable information about anonymous artists in order to determine whether or not they're alive is practically an IMPOSSIBLE ask!

All this is, is a GIANT FUCKING BUREAUCRATIC LOOPHOLE for them to save fucking face that says "UwU, we support ALL forms of artistic expression <3....... EXCEPT THAT."

Meanwhile, a whole REALM of people that didn't have time, money, resources, or intrinsic talent, for the first time in their ENTIRE lives, had the ability to make art, and experience that joy and passion for it. And what are they met with?

A whole community of people that have endowed themselves with the indignant "right" to squash that passion into the dirt by telling them what, how, when, and where they're "allowed" to make?! Backed by the ONLY place that "accepts" AI art + furry art + unique fantasies and kinks, all of which are banned from the vast majority of almost EVERY other art based hosting site, and a site that "supports artistic freedom" and "does not tolerate bullies" and now THEY have given into the demands of the bullies, and outright BAN people who participate even remotely outside of the realm of their tightly constricted noose of fucking "artistic freedom," intentionally or ignorantly.

Absolutely shameful. All of you act like AI art is destroying artistic freedoms, when it's really YOU who are destroying artistic freedoms just because a TOOL "could" be used to do harm, which is in fact ALL of the same harm that ANYONE CAN, AND DOES, CURRENTLY DO in the artistic space, and you shame, exile, and forcibly oppress anyone that uses that tool, negatively or not.

You have destroyed the hearts of people who found passion in art for the first time in their lives, destroyed the hearts of people who had NO negative intentions, you have effectively KILLED their passion and spirit for art that just BARELY began to grow and the desire to show it off, you have violated what this community "supposedly" stands for, you have given into mob rule to violate said integrities, or you have let your personal bias towards the tool and medium of AI art generation abuse your power and trump the integrities of the site and the position YOU'RE supposed to uphold, and you have allowed bullies to continuously do the same, no only without reprimand, but have also JOINED IN WITH THEM and ban people's accounts without warning while tying a tightly bound leash around their necks of what they're "allowed" to make.

The ONLY place we had to go, the place that accepts EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING, and you have turned your back on them too. Disgusting.
Viewed: 189 times
Added: 1 year ago
 
AngelF
1 year ago
The common artist won’t be replaced by AI.  They will be replaced by other artists who know how to utilise AI.  What these repressive types don’t understand is that AI is as inevitable as a pressure sensitive stylus on a tablet.  It’s a new tool that everyone will be using to speed up art creation and to improve the final product for both amateur commissions and commercial operations.  As is always the case, there are those who can see the future and those who scream at the moon.
VenisonCreamPie
1 year ago
You might have clung onto the negative a bit too deeply 😅 well said nonetheless.. just.. maybe leas anger maybe?~<3 We must learn to coexist ^w^
Sponch
1 year ago
Haha, 😅, youre right. I started off ok, and then got pissed. I just hate seeing people's motivations crushed, especially when most AI users are just beginning artists who ha e found the passion of art for the first time, only to be treated like some kind of criminal about it. Plus, seeing a place that supposedly hold high values about artistic freedom just completely violate and ignore that to align with those people, its disheartening.
parszuki
1 year ago
Their crushing power is only as strong as you let them! Be like grass in the wind, not a stiff tree that will eventually break. Please, instead of spending time writing this type of texts, spend it on creating graphics - you won't beat "concrete", you won't convince them with arguments. You touched on their "exclusivity" and that's why they're pissed. Time will decide this - but we don't know which way. We'll live to see - we'll see...

It's really a waste of your nerves and time. Still do your thing - just wisely and carefully.


(hugs from an anonymous fox:)
Sponch
1 year ago
You said the words that I needed to hear most, thanks. I have a compulsive habit to fight against people that have oppressive attitudes to people around them, especially when it's treating innocent people as though they're evil. It's a waste of time to fight people that center their beliefs on emotions and not logic.
parszuki
1 year ago
Well, that's what I sensed, I'm a 'fighting fox', very sensitive to injustice. Sometimes I have to restrain myself so as not to waste energy on convincing people who are resistant to arguments anyway.
I was able to write here on IB, comments of 2 x 4000 characters to express my opinion in depth, although on a slightly different topic:)

I call it. You can't spin a ball because someone thinks the earth is flat.
IcyButt
1 year ago
Please, don't be angry. I fucked up. I broke the rules, so I have to suffer the consequences. I cried enough yesterday, and reading all those comments and journals people wrote, when I woke up, made me cry even more today. Please, just have fun and smile. Don't be angry ;_;
Sponch
1 year ago
You may have broken their rules, but you didnt DO anything wrong. The rules are unfair and not understanding of how AI generation tools actually work, and have unrealistic expectations of compliance. ALL of that boils down to a violation of supporting artistic freedom.

You werent hurting ANYONE, and now theyve hurt you, crushed your spirit, and made you feel horrible about simply wanting to create art. Theyve robbed you of your artistic spirit and nothing in this world pisses me off than people who gatekeep creative expression.

Just because something is a rule, doesnt mean that its fair.
IcyButt
1 year ago
*sighs* Beautiful words, but they won't change anything now. The mods has made their decission. They even replied in my journal.
RunicMyth
1 year ago
Do you have your stuff posted anywhere else?

I hadn't found you yet, but I'd like to see it.
IcyButt
1 year ago
No. This was the only place I could post my stuff.
RunicMyth
1 year ago
Well, let us know if you post anywhere else. Furbooru or something. IB is far from the only site out there. ^.^
IcyButt
1 year ago
Furbooru forbids cub.
AerinPierce
1 year ago
The thing that bothers me is depending on the bot you use it will add certain descriptors to it  to try and generate better images so even if your doing the right thing trying to not use stuff like that you could still end up with a picture thats prompt reads with some of the forbidden text.
Hornybunny
1 year ago
Even if something else is added. It's easy to remove the Metadata that shows the generation information. When I upscale my stuff it create a whole new file, so if I don't add prompts to ot it will show no prompt information. Just saving as a different format will remove it, so no one would know what was used to generate the picture than just forget to add the prompts that aren't allowed. It's a pretty scummy thing to do.
Sponch
1 year ago
But if you go through numerous iterations of inpainting, img2img generation, and post editing through Photoshop, Photopea, or Krita, you can't carry all that image data with the image the whole time based on the original prompt.

It's not some form of intentional maliciousness like so many people are trying to act like AI generators do, it's just an outcome of the process. People have created a bias that AI generation is an evil tool that's only used to steal and that anyone using it also shares those evil traits, but in reality, that's both WILDLY not true, and even though there's POTENTIAL to do these evil things with these tools, it's no different than anything anyone can currently do with traditional mediums to steal and falsely profit off of other people's works.

The medium isn't evil, the people that use the medium aren't inherently evil either by proxy. It's the evil people choosing to do evil shit that's the problem. A murderer is gonna use a hammer if they can't find a knife. Just because a image file doesn't contain generation data, doesn't mean that someone is nefariously "trying to hide it."
Sponch
1 year ago
Not accusing you specifically of anything BTW. I'm just tired of the rhetoric of people who don't understand how these technologies work accusing innocent people of nefarious acts, when that's not even remotely the case. Also not accusing you of not knowing how the tech works, I know you make AI too.
RetroNumanox
1 year ago
Without taking sides, the rules are completely outdated.

First of all, there are good alternatives for getting information, such as Discord:Furry Diffusion (not the website, like I sayed, discord). There are hundreds of thousands of furries, both artists and AI users, without hate. Even artists are increasingly using ai, informing themselves but not daring to say so because of the hate. No matter how you feel about it, the people who spread hate have not yet realised that they are outnumbered. Even most people from the furry community turn away from such people. Being against something is one thing, but nobody wants that hate. It is important to understand that you are not alone and that such people will soon be left behind. Not because of opinions, whether someonelike AI or not, but because nobody likes people who spread hate. As I said, the user numbers at discord alone, the last time I looked, were tens of thousands of people meeting peacefully. It feels like more than half of furry fandom is there. It's a force, but a peaceful one, whether AI enthusiast, artist or just curious.

Next: (by artist) is no longer necessary. As soon as you use img2img, or even better ControlNet, you are no longer dealing with thes artistic references. Actually, it was the great wish of the Furry Community to openly communicate which artists were used as references. That is now a thing of the past: exactly the opposite has been achieved. The common ground that was established peacefully has been destroyed. But this is not a war, it's simply a test of endurance and it's up to everyone to stay reasonable.

Technology has developed further. Change the workflow. Find out more about ControlNet. This is expressly not a workaround of the rules! It's about adapting the processes that (by artist) are no longer required. Adjusting to a reasonable level is the best thing you can do now.

...and another bit of personal advice: don't argue too much with people, keep it short and adapt. Don't get caught up in discussions! If Prompt (by artist) is no more needet, stop using it. I guarantee that you can do without it. Even IF you can't do without it, you don't have to use it in promts. At least use img2img and the issue is immediately resolved: you can even post the original meta information, no artist will be taken as a reference any more. Don't fight a war, because there really isn't one. The people spreading hate are outnumbered. But don't cheat either, develop yourself further from it, as well as others who read this, that nobody has to rely to (by artist).

For all those who are reading this now and don't understand: It is not a cover-up, nor an instruction to get round it: It is a further development of the workflow!
Sponch
1 year ago
I am already aware of all the things you mentioned. I came here from Furry Diffusion because FD is a little more restrictive with content types, such as the kind of stuff I make here. There's also no real way to carve out your own personal space like you can here with IB.

I'm aware that referencing artist names aren't needed in prompting, I do it all the time without them, but it can definitely improve compositional quality a lot by referencing multiple, 6 or 7 or more, different artists with complimentary styles. That's not even my concern though, because even without referencing a single one, every single checkpoint model is still based and made with modern furry art. By their rules here, that would technically exclude all furry AI art models outright.

I can't help myself when arguing with people, and I know that's a flaw of mine, but so many people lack understanding or knowledge on this matter and these technologies. They act like AI is evil and so are the people that use it, when in reality, it's simply a machine just like any other, made to make harder laborious tasks easier, but the task is the EXACT same as how humans did it, just exponentially faster. People keep drawing lines in the sand where there is none and at least for me, keeping my head down and keeping quiet to angry ignorance, are two things I can just watch. So I get involved, and say what needs to be said from the other side of the fence.
GreenReaper
12 months ago
This is a bit late, but the thing that really gets up a lot of people's gizzards is not just "oh, it might be using a particular artist's art" (although there is a fair bit of that) but "it definitely is, for these specific artists". It's the difference between looking at "pictures of dragons" as references and opening up your favourite artist's gallery to draw dragons just like them. That might be fine for a one-off, but not so much if you integrate "drawing like X" into your workflow - by any means.

As such, the issue isn't just that they don't understand the technology - some do - but that they don't like what you're doing and wouldn't like it even if you did it by hand. Staff have also zapped work for occasional close referencing of other fans' work well before AI art was a thing - machine learning just makes it a lot easier.
kemowolf
12 months ago
But you all don't zap accounts of people that steal copyrighted photos from Google images and use it as their background with a cheap filter.

I have reported clear copyright violations before in the past and was told by a mod that only the copyright holder can file a complaint.

But when it comes to AI, anyone can file a complaint. AI directors are being targeted unfairly.

Make an AI art category, make a required box to put in your prompt, and let people block it if they don't like it. You all allow screenshots of games and crap which have zero creativity but AI must be vanquished apparently.
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