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The first week of school was rough!

But I'm getting the swing of it for this fall semester.  I'm getting into the really heavy stuff now so I need to spend a little more time on homework and assignments if I'm going to succeed so I probably wont be online as much.  My most challenging course is probably going to be Calculus I, followed by my Geology course, and then my first Computer Science course all adding up to 13 credits for the fall.  I'm having a lot of fun in my Computer Science course though.  The semester covers understanding and writing JAVA which has lead to some other interesting ideas.

It seems that JAVA does get a lot of bad rep though, and I can understand why but I'm still researching the feedback on it.  What's Inkbunny's general opinion on JAVA?  The class itself just covers the basics so I haven't really gotten into that much but I've been doing a lot of reading on it.  It's a bit different then Actionscript but I'm getting a handle on it.  As I read more about it though and get a better understanding I've realized that this might be a good format for building an action adventure platforming game.

Now nobody panic, I'm not planning on reprogramming Babysitting Cream into java.  When it comes to point and click adventure games I'm going to stick with flash.  However, one thing that has always bothered me about flash is how much speed suffers in action/adventure/platforming games.  Any action game I've played larger then the original set up for the screen always grinds to a halt and the game play suffers for it.  I've been testing out platform games in Java and I see a lot of potential in it but I still need more research on it.

What do you think?

Viewed:	1,044 times
Added:	11 years, 8 months ago 28 Aug 2012 03:22 CEST

21 Comments on this Journal

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blankname

11 years, 8 months ago

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Ive taken a computer science class and i can see your view points JAVA can be smooth for most things but lags like hell with too much background work ie enemys moving off screen can be troubling without seperate loadings screens but ive also seen well done point and clicks in java it all depends on what you know and what can be tested

Artzilla60

11 years, 8 months ago

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as far as JAVA goes; I barely understand Flash, so I can add nothing there.:3
Good luck on your classes! especially the Calculus The Geology sounds interesting though :)

crackerspawn

11 years, 8 months ago

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today was my first day for classes, so you're about a week ahead of me there... as for java vs flash i can only speak from a user standpoint not a programmer, but i've seen a LOT of stuff done well with java.... it just seems to handle fast/complex graphics better than flash, from what i've seen.. flash can handle fast or complex graphics well enough as well, if done right, but all too often it seems that even when a game runs decently at first with faster action on screen, over time it really bogs down... almost like flash doesn't allow for a truly GOOD dump/refresh necessary to keep the graphic loading speed high enough for action... it's rare that someone using it figures out how, but then that could be an inability of the programmer.. since so many games are programmed in flash, it could be that simply too many people are jumping into making their ideas come true before studying enough to really pull them off efficiently. there have been a few flash games that ran fast and ran well with plenty of graphic objects bouncing around the screen, so it's gotta be do-able somehow. i'm taking c++ right now but we haven't even gotten into using image objects or anything like that..i'm still in an intro level class, so forgive me if i use the wrong terminology. but besides games i've seen an awful lot that uses java... whereas flash seems VERY media heavy, and the vast majority of uses are geared towards games or audio/video media.. which to me suggests that the variety of uses for java show a more open, usable language, which SHOULD also indicate a wider variety of options when programming games, since games in general tend to use as MUCH of a language as possible, as programmers try to push the envelope of their chosen language to accomplish whatever goal they have in mind for their games. ok i'm done rambling now... if that made any sense please let me know.. i'm going to sleep now since i have an early class tomorrow and it's my second day overall/first for the classes i'll attend on tuesdays. nighty night!

humbird0

11 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 11 years, 8 months ago by Owner

@ crackerspawn

In Flash, slow-down is rarely caused by code.
It almost always comes from trying to display too many real-time effects, or updating too much of the screen at once.
Until very recently, Flash rendered all of its graphics in software. Great for compatibility, bad for performance.
This is further complicated by the fact that there are actually two completely different versions of Actionscript, Flash's programming language, and they are completely incompatible.
Only actionscript 3 supports hardware acceleration, and recently, fully accelerated 3D.
The flash player will run either version, because it actually has more than one player within it. It just picks the player for the version of actionscript it's trying to run.

The reason why Flash lends itself to media is because it was an animation program before it added programming.
It actually has a really unique combination of programming and animation, that I've never seen in any other program.
For example, I recently discovered that I can use the animation timeline to easily construct a finite state machine, and drag movieClips containing code into each of the frames to "program" the state machine without having to type anything. So I discovered a way to program via graphical GUI. This kind of unconventional flexibility and experimentation is unique to Flash.

I've read some things about JAVA and it seemed pretty amazing.
I think the main reasons it didn't take off was that it started off with bad performance, tarnishing its reputation even after that improved in later versions. I think Flash handles preloading much better. It can play files before they've even finished downloading.
Unlike JAVA, Flash is edited via a GUI interface (with actionscript coding possible if you happen to open that particular window.) It allows programming without requiring it, so artists and animators can get into it. (There are many more artists than there are programmers)
I don't imagine that there is any JAVA editor like that.
I also found out recently that Flash's actionscript 2 language is based on ECMAScript (javascript). Not sure whether or not actionscript 3 is though. It's a very flexible language, but in some unconventional ways. I myself find it pretty intuitive. I just make things as I need them. No separate files.
Though unlike Javascript, it works exactly the same on every computer in every browser.

crackerspawn

11 years, 7 months ago

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@ humbird0

ok.. so to go off on a tangent separate from avian's original question....wow!!! just wikipedia'd Flash,ActionScript,JAVA, and javascript.. and while i didn't understand everything (like i said i'm in an intro c++ class, so programming is new to me still).. i think i see what you mean... it seems from what i read that, instead of using one instance of a class object when displaying groups of them, flash instantiates new objects every time, so instead of referencing the original object each time, it creates a new object to reference which takes up more memory... am i even close to right? :P if so, i can see how large multiples of objects on screen could bog it down...it would make sense to me how it could display a single highly detailed object would be much easier to display that way than multiple "simple" objects...you might have 50 variables, but only instantiate them once to be referenced over and over again, versus 2-3 variables PER object times dozens of objects all being instantiated and referenced separately...so as an animation tool you could use "pre-recorded animation" with great ease and have a very busy screen because you can save it as a single object or as objects called sequentially where the previous object's lifetime doesn't overlap the new one (or something like that) to continuously refresh the image on screen like with flash cartoons, but creating the individual animated objects at runtime would end up a pain if you have too many on screen at once..does any of this make sense? and if so, am i anywhere close to the right track?? even if the train IS a few hundred miles away still? (and yes i know i'm using mostly code-type references, i know even less about computer animation than i do code... sad huh?) and now to throw a little brevity in here... so do you think i should try using a game-maker program to get a feel for any of this before i start trying to talk about it? :P

humbird0

11 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 11 years, 7 months ago by Owner

@ crackerspawn

Flash actually handles the data-side of things very well.
It's mostly just the non-accelerated graphics drawing that it handles behind-the-scenes that tends to slow things down, especially if you choose to use anti-aliasing.
I just sent a private message talking about the intricacies of how Flash handles data.

To get a feel for Flash, just use Flash for awhile.
But don't be ambitious and try to start big projects right away.
You'll learn much more, much quicker, if you just experiment a lot and play around.

I can't really suggest whether or not to start with a game-maker or programming.
There are probably advantages to both.
I myself started off playing with Flash a bit, focusing on animation at first.
Then I focused heavily on RPG Maker 2000 for many years until it started feeling too restrictive.
Then I switched back to Flash and built up a bunch of reusable code and tools to make it easy for me to build games in it.

crackerspawn

11 years, 7 months ago

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@ humbird0

ah-ha! hardware acceleration is a beautiful thing, until it's not around.. :P

EricAdler

11 years, 8 months ago

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Calc I isn't that hard, that's derivative Calculus. All functions have a derivative, so once you learn the transformation equations, it's a simple case of lining the factors up and crunching it down.

Calc II is going to be trickier, that's Integral Calculus, not every function can be integrated, and some of the ones that can require a lot of work to find the right format to make the equation 'work' for integrating.

One thing to remember is that the derivative of an equation is a function that describes the slope of the original function. It'll make a lot more sense in a few weeks, and I'm begining to suspect that I'm rambling, so I'm going to shut my big fat beak now.

thezenfrog

11 years, 8 months ago

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Minecraft was made with JAVA, so I like JAVA. From a programming standpoint, it is good, but could be improved in different aspects.

dudeface1234

11 years, 8 months ago

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I really like your stuff, and I don't really message at all here on inkbunny, but if you need any kind of help in calc or programming send me a PM. I check inkbunny about once a day. :)

Terl

11 years, 8 months ago

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Big problem, do you mean JAVA, the byte code compilation for a virtualised hardware machine that runs on any platform with a translator.. or JavaScript, similar to ActionScript, which is mainly intrepreted programming code used on websites, sort of like Basic, but without the compile to C option?

Dont forget also, that Flash is being dropped in places now for HTML5 (Wow, after 25 years, whod have thunk it, media support options) and you can have a 2D game written in Flash, that wont run as smoothly on a machine that can handle Second Life.

I mean, Second Life, a full free form 3D enviroment, that scales to your machine capabilities no matter how much you throw at it.

Calculus is interesting. You wait till you see Calculus with complex numbers 8).. Oh, and when they start going on about calculus involving trig functions, what they dont tell you till the year after, when youve sweated and swore etc.. is that you use the exponential forms to solve them.

For the function e^x, the differential is e^x, and the integral is e^x. After that, its all Calculus 1 substititions, sums, collection of terms etc. I failed miserably because the teacher would only tell us What we had to do, not Why.

Rashira

11 years, 8 months ago

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Oh god, college is a nightmare for me so far. Granted, I just started, but holy shit. I'm doing decent in my RCL Analysis class, and me 2D drafting seems easy enough, but my Electronic Technology is is INSANE! This is my second week in, and I still don't have the book because the bookstore ran out!

As far as JAVA goes, I have no issues with it.

kinkman

11 years, 8 months ago

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would love to see you develop some java based games.
if you do, could you please make it available for android?
i think there is a free java/android developer kit available.

ravelyn

11 years, 8 months ago

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just dont build a game on adobe air....

gintsu

11 years, 8 months ago

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I'm doing 12 credits i know what your going through lol as far as school work as far as java it can be buggy in some games i have had a ton of bad experiences with java platform type games but that's mostly because how rushed they are normally if you have the time or don't mind working on it for long periods of time java is great and you dont see to many java games now so it would be great to see 1 just don't feel rushed when you rush you make mistakes when you make mistakes you only create more work +) good luck on it if you got with flash.

RvrWC

11 years, 7 months ago

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Never been too impressed with JAVA.
FlatRedBall engine with C#, thats a good way to do it.

hpbunny

11 years, 7 months ago

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FeatheredAdventures

: If you are interested in creating a new game in java, you should look at JavaFX.
It is the answer of Oracle to Adobe Flash/Microsoft Flex. In JavaFX you have also a stage like in AS, you can place buttons and textfields, you can even define your GUI with an external XML file or you can skin your applications with external CSS-Files.
There is also support for multimedia and visual effects.

But beware, your applications will still be pure java, when you are using JavaFX. That means, one can decompile your application; it is harder to get your code when you stay with Flash.

More info: www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/documentation/index.html

hpbunny

11 years, 7 months ago

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@ hpbunny

You should check the following examples out, they pretty much show you what you can do with JavaFX!

http://download.oracle.com/otndocs/products/javafx/2.2...

slippyismyhero

11 years, 7 months ago

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I have a love - hate relationship with Java. To be good in it, you have to really know the libraries, and that takes quite a bit of effort.

hpbunny

11 years, 7 months ago

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@ slippyismyhero

But consider programming in c++ or c. There you have only a minimal standard library that is consistent with different compilers like those shipped by Microsoft, Borland or (to name a free product) GNU gcc. This standard library consists of common data structures like linked list, vektor, set,... or common algorithms like quicksort or math functions like cos, sin, ...

But if you want to implement a real application that can communicate over the internet with some http-server, you have a real problem, because either you have to implement this functionality all by yourself with platform specific operations (there are really big books about windows/mac/linux programming out there) or you have to find some library that does this dirty work for you (and additionally you have to make sure that the license of this library is compatible to the license you ship your apps with and if you have to pay a fee, and....).

In java on the other hand you do not have to worry about these kind of things (if the thing you want to achieve is not something obscure), because it has a huge library that covers many different topics like multi-threading, graphics, security functions, support for different charsets (UTF-8, ASCII) ....
There you just create a new URL-Object, stating what internet ressource you want, open a connection and there you get a ByteStream of the data you requested.
The best part of using java's library is that it is plattform independent, that it does not restrict the license you may ship your apps with and it is totally free of charge!

I think here I can stop advertising java, bye for now.

nicksmith21

11 years, 7 months ago

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I'm in calc 3 right now and got A's in both Calc1 and 2 so if you need any help hit me up i might be able to give you some tips/pointers. Best of luck!!!

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