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HolidayPup

Commissioning....An Artists Point of View...

First off I would like to say that I have had the worst day when it comes to this of all time in my career as an artist. I've heard the arguments and I've heard how it sucks that most good or great artists are expensive and I've had a bunch of people whine when I ask for anything around being fair to myself......

Art is fun but it doesn't come easy. Commission up the wazoo, that's easy. I really don't think most of the people that do have ever picked up a pencil and paper or actually tried to sit down with a tablet and  draw something! Quality counts too and I'll be the first to say that quality wise maybe I fail and fall short...I've never had a complaint but then maybe that's just because of sugar coated stupid retarded lets not hurt feelings rather then letting me know. I want to know....if I suck artwise I want to know how so that I can improve.....3 years back I was just barely getting to a point where what I drew actually looked like what I was trying to draw. I feel I've made strides, if I haven't then that sucks but I'm so sick of this middle man standpoint......

Art is many things and that's a whole different conversation for another time.

But I have this person, comes to me knowing that right now I'm sort of going through a rough time financially. Made it clear that I could do a commission and we agreed originally on 25 bucks for a pic with an internal shot.....completely do able and I was happy, started drawing. Show this person updates, and then all of a sudden this person goes " Oh I just barely changed my fursona colors so if you could go back and fix that, that would be awesome. So I do.....couple more hours already then I wanted to spend but I figure I'll just work at this because I love drawing anyway and appreciate getting commissioned. So I'm almost done.....and this person comes back and goes...."Y'know what I've decided it would be really really awesome if it was a one page comic! Would that be okay? Thanks so much!"
Internally 'Fuck no!" externally I took some time thought about it and yeah I guess I could if I can up the price just a bit.
Then all of a sudden, "Let's make this comic pages!" "Oh by the way Holiday here's a story!" "You come up with a title and I'd like a title page as well!" "By the way I can't pay you for another week so will you just trust me to pay you after you post?" Then the kicker.......I agree to a one page deal hating myself for it and this person is excited. I show them the first panel drawn according to what they said they wanted and then they go through my gallery and tell me that they would like quality for each panel and that what I've done isn't good enough....when I clearly marked in the title 'First Cut' . Then I start drawing again and show this person progress and they have a whole description of how they want the sex to be and how they want me to drag it out.

The whole time I'm telling her that I have to raise the price and they become all flirty and drop....25$ for two pages, all of which they want to be my best quality and done in a weeks time and specifically drawn after what they want, with the details they want. "By the way holiday I'm picky about sex scenes." "Send me an invoice over paypal.........FUCK ME.

Most people that don't draw themselves I guess think that it's just some fun thing sometimes that we artists just whip out of thin air, that it doesn't take time and effort and that minimum payment is fair. Working 8 hours for 15$ in one day isn't fair, being demanding and changing up what you want in a commission and then changing it up again all the while trying to get me to lower what I'm asking isn't fair. And, asking for a comic even if it's a page and being picky about it, wanting quality in an insane amount of time is ridiculous.

I understand that I've done a bunch of comics lately but they have been my ideas.....fun things that I've done for myself when I've had the time, and the comics that haven't been or the pictures that haven't been for the most part I expect to be able to ask what is fair to me. I'm not someone that want's top dollar but think of it this way.

This commissioner wanted 2-3 pages of detailed comic work, completed in 4-7 days for 25$. (a page usually takes me at least a day usually if I'm on a roll.....8-19 hours roughly, do the math...what is that per hour?)  Didn't bat an eyelid......
Maybe I'm weird or maybe things have changed......I'm new to commissioning in a lot of regards, I ask for money first and sometimes I've been dumb enough to trust but it's been far and few between. That said though....really?...........
.......just..........wow!
Anyways sorry for posting this rant but I'm pissed, really pissed off and floored. I've wasted a good amount of my day because of this issue. Maybe I'm an asshole but if I'm going to get fucked up the butt it'll be a pleasurable way that I choose, not with my livelihood in the balance. Since when did it become a crime to get paid as an artist?
Viewed: 210 times
Added: 2 years, 4 months ago
 
tannim
2 years, 4 months ago
At this point, it is time to cancel that commission and immediately post a terms of service limiting number of changes allowable without price increase.

It is unlikely that you will ever be able to please that commissioner no matter what unless you do it free, and even then, only maybe.
Rethex
2 years, 4 months ago
As commissioner and as bf of an artist I understand both sides,  and I really have to say that you should have said NO right when they asked for a comic page.  Also as the guy over me,  you need TOS that can protect you from those toxic customers.
Try to look on other artists TERMS OF SERVICE,  that might help you
tannim
2 years, 4 months ago
Amusingly, I have never actually made/posted one for myself ;)  I really do need to do that some day.
zfqfmb
2 years, 4 months ago
Aaah the wedge. Ask for a small thing then slowly crank it up, maintaining the original conditions. Can I get a rough sketch for $10?
Imya
2 years, 4 months ago
First off, I understand the problem. While I am not very good at drawing, I write stories and I commissioned a few pieces in the past. Even though I do have a limited amount of money for that, I can only do so once in a while.

From what I experienced so far there are different kind of artist on the terms of their service.
The best I have seen so far (and which is fair in my eyes) is that the artist is offering a first lineart (to verify that that is the pose and the quality of the character they want) before payment. Before the coloring, shading etc. the art is paid and then the artist will finish the work.

I got good experiences with that (and most artist offer an alternate version with minimal changes - like a clean and cum version - without extra charges).

From the story you told here I would say, that it was not okay what the comissioner did.
If I ask for a certain pose/picture, this is the comission. If I then want to have a comic page (in addition) I first should pay the first art and then ask for the additional one.

For comic pages there are very different prices and because most artists ask for 3 digit prices I did not consider any comic pages yet, where however the quality they deliver for that is normally fair in my eyes.

For general quality I would say that the portfolio (your works before) are the messure. Normally the quality I see in the previous pictures is what I expect. (I had no reason to complain about the quality so far.)

As a hint to not get frustrated I would recommend to make clear that they have to pay after the lineart (scratches) and before coloring and shading. If they have a clear reason to complain (i.e. if the color would be flat but they ordered shaded or such) I would give the points to the comissioner, but if it is just not their "imagination", this is the risk you take as the comissoner. If you want the perfect image in your head, you need to pick up the pencil yourself and start to learn drawing.

This is at least my thought about the topic.
Jovo
2 years, 4 months ago
I feel for you bud, ive had similar issues, but none that egregious.
it sucks that this happened, i know it comes from your heart of gold. Some people take advantage of that.
definitely its time to make a price list for all your different options of art, and quality levels. I would be happy to help with that.
Hope things go a bit smoother for you here in a bit. love ya bro.
lavilovi
2 years, 4 months ago
Good god, that's a customer from hell x_x; That's just horrid. Myself, I have money before I even begin, so I don't think that's an issue by any means.

I'd second the commissions sheet. That way there's a lot less wiggle room (and gives commissioners a clear idea of how it'll go down!). I'd also agree with a little TOS type thing, if only to explicitly say "yeah, you can't just change things up like that bro." 'Cause you deserve a helluva lot more respect than that.
Kinaj
2 years, 4 months ago
Stories like this created my TOS x.x
Man, you have every reason to be pissed. Sorry you have to deal with that.
DallasBalto
2 years, 4 months ago
I have to admit, Holiday is right on key with straight-forward commentary. And more importantly, I'm very sorry Holiday you have to go through with the chaos.
Whippy
1 year, 7 months ago
Holy hell that sounds awful!!! And yes I can totally relate to that. I dealt with this one guy that wanted "a simple 3 panel comic", which I drew out and colored....but he changed his mind and wanted 5 panels...then 6 panels...then oh 7 or 8.  I stopped him and just agreed on 6 (I shouldn't have but just wanted to have the idea *done* so I could start and finish it in the same day.  It took something like 5 or 6 hours I think. Exhausted, I posted the thing, muttered curses about the whole experience and went to sleep.

Ah, the joys of being an artist hah! This is why it's not a good idea to give people a super great deal on comic pages or anything really. I also take payment up front. If I really know the person is trustworthy, then I might just let them pay later when they can.
HolidayPup
1 year, 7 months ago
It wasn't fun to try to deal with, and unfortunately most artists have some sort of experience like this or like the one you had. I just find it incredible how fast commissioners/viewers of art forget that there is an artist behind the art and that even though we do want to draw for other people, there's more than just them on top of the fact that most of us also have our own ideas that we took the time to learn to draw for ^^ In the end I think it's worth it but sometimes it's really annoying how entitled some people are.
Whippy
1 year, 7 months ago
Yes, it really is. I remember this one guy telling me right off the bat "I don't want you drawing in warner bros style". Then When I explained it would take longer than a week to get his comish done ( I had like 10+ people in the cue) he got pissed and wanted his money back lol! Good riddance to that!  Still, it is nice to be able to do this than get shouted at by some retarded boss or having to say "do you want fries with that?". Now I just ask "do you want lots of cum with that?" :D
JManime
1 year, 2 months ago
That's where you just tell the person to fuck off, stop working on the picture and start another commission or preferably some personal art that you can have fun with and not have to stress over. I've been doing commissions off and on for about 15 years now and lucky I don't think I've ever had anyone quite as picky as you've described. If anything, most people that commission me are too lenient and want to leave everything up to me. And tell me to take my time (which is NOT a good thing for me). I have always been terrible with pricing and also go into perfectionist mode with commissions so I almost always way undercharge based on the amount of time I put in. People who commission a lot seem to understand these things a lot better since many of them tell me I'm undercharging and will pay a bit more than I asked (which I am always eternally grateful for; but still feel bad accepting). But when you're doing art commissions as your main source of income, it is important to be a bit more firm with prices and not get too carried away. I've seen some artists who very obviously rush on commissions and you can clearly see the difference between them and some of their personal art (or just other commissions that they were more into/ got paid for/ whatever). In general, I think most artists will usually put their best effort in when they are drawing something they like. Doing your best and making something that you're happy with, and that also makes other people happy is the thing that makes are so fun and rewarding. And every artist will always be their own toughest critic so not getting too caught up on little things that you think could be better is okay (and something I keep trying to get better with). :3

As with any situation, some people just cannot be pleased or just want to complain as much as possible or do their best to get a better deal or get more than they are paying for. It can be SUPER frustrating when that happens but you should do your best to not let it stress you out too much. And don't feel bad to let people know when they need to pay more because they are clearly asking for more than what was originally agreed on or even if you've just put a ton of extra work into it because you're having fun. Commissioners have to learn over time the same way that commissionee's do.. And I need to stop procrastinating on my own commissions and get back to work! ^^;
WheelerBertrand
8 months, 2 weeks ago
This stuff makes me sick. I'm sorry you dealt with that. Commissioners like this make the rest of us look bad. I always try to be a respectable customer with everyone. There are always those jerks but they're not the majority.

If folks are tight on their budget just search for artists you can reasonably afford. There are tons out there.

For commissioners who read this: A tip I often use is look at artists your favorites follow. I've found tons of great artists in my price range, and for artists on the higher end, I just suck it up and save or take advantage of sales or raffles,

I've been drawing off and on and I suck so I'm nowhere near at the level to take commissions. I can see from artist friends of mine there's a balance between charging too little and shortchanging your work or charging so much that you turn away potential customers.

To be totally transparent I started drawing because I'm not able to commission some of my favorite artists due to budget (or don't take commissions). I'm not where I want to be but I try to enjoy the process. Easier said than done...

Okay, I don't want to start ranting. I love your art and would want to commission you myself. You wrote this some time ago so I hope you're feeling a little better. Take care.
MarcoWolf
5 months, 1 week ago
honestly ive only ever really done a few small things as requests for people and they werent much good then ive done some writing happily for people and even gotten some characters and things like that. i try to always take it easy on artists having been on that side of things. i also always try to pay promptly. i hoestly hope you are feeling better as sometimes ya just need to get stuff out. i hope to in the future have money incoming and be able to commission great artists like you and a few others for some work and i sincerely hope im not a pain in the ass to work with. hope its going better now.
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