Keep it up [short comic] by FireEagle2015 < Submission

removed, don't wanna participate in a discussion like these again.

Fezzezal

1 year, 11 months ago

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But... AI should replace low-skilled and low-wage workers, not specialists. Like any technology does. So if you make stuff that is better than AI's one, well, you're welcome! And if you don't... that's capitalism, no one wants to pay a layman.

Merlin

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Fezzezal

Technology always replaces specialists. It just makes new ones. Pretty much every trade we consider low skill now used to be a specialized work. We have gotten so good that we don't even HAVE jobs for a lot of it. For example clothing making. Making thread was a specialty. Making cloth was a specialty. Making clothing was a specialty. Making dye was a specialty. Now the vast majority of those positions have been replaced with incredibly "low skill" positions. You still have material science majors who create new dyes, you still have that one guy who makes sure all the weaving machines are working correctly, but by numbers it's the specialists who got replaced with general laborers who don't have to specialize to perform the same work. That's the point of technology. Inevitably the new tech requires new specializations, which brings about new roles that are respected and well paid, but that doesn't mean that the specializations are spared, it means that the old specilizations are now explicitly an excess.

None of which is really what this piece feels like it's about. The recognition and approval people have for artists and their work is a big drive for some artists, who feel threatened and upset because ai art is taking away from that. Imo Sean is right about the end results too though. Ai art is a new toy, a neat gimmick that has taken the world by storm. But in a few years, ai art is just going to act as a foil and show how much skill and effort goes into stuff made by real people. honestly I don't even think it will take years. I am already tired of seeing ai art being used in gaudy advertisements by shady companies on the Internet, and I LIKE ai. I give it a year tops before most of the world sticks it in their back pocket next to the spell check feature in word. When it's all said and done the only change is that people looking to consume art will have a better appreciation for its value

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

nah, AI will never replace artists, expecially those which draw well.
try to generate a specific OC. it will fail. like, try to generate seanys OC or nia, it will fail. because, the OC´s are too unique. even if you feed the AI with tons of seanys pictures where his OC is vissible will the AI fail to generate it. it might be possible when an artist "assists" the AI and thats more the problem then AI on its own. but, even then would it be probably vissible that it is AI due to how AI draws lines, does shadows etc.

in short, AI will never replace artists, expecially when it comes to getting the own OC in "specific" situations drawn etc. the AI will fail to generate the OC and will fail to get the situation in which the person wants their OC or atleast not to 100%.
with other words, you would need to ask an artist.

Chimera005ao

1 year, 11 months ago

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You're looking at where it is at now.
But if you look at where it was at only like 3 years ago you can see how much it has changed.
And you can predict how much more it may change in just 3 more years.
It may not surpass humans. But I suspect it will, in everything, eventually.

My question is, why does that matter?
Just because there are people who dance better than you do, and make money doing it while you don't, doesn't stop you from doing it for your own enjoyment.
While Twitch and Esports exist, a lot of people play videogames for their own enjoyment.
And such will always remain the situation with art.

I think that by the time AI surpasses people in everything there will no longer be a real need for money.
Artists are safe until then, and after then they only need to continue if they actually enjoy the self expression.
They may have much more time and freedom to do so by then.

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Chimera005ao

what has AI artwork and dancing to do with me? and what has twitch and esports to do with AI artwork?
the topic here is AI ARTWORK o_o. and my point simply was that and AI will never be able to get your OC flawlessly generated nor will it be able to generate it flawless in what for a situation you want your OC. never! not even in 3 years, 5 years or 10 years. AI will always fail on unique things on OC´s since it would need A TON of pictures to do it right.

Chimera005ao

1 year, 11 months ago

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Oh... you can write, I assumed you could read.
I guess we'll just wait and see.

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

@ Chimera005ao

thx for the insult kiddo. bye

Merlin

1 year, 11 months ago

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Things like "ai will/won't replace x" is looking to narrowly at the problem. Consider that in this day and age we STILL have photographers who take photos with film and who develop the pictures and make prints themselves using traditional processes. It's not about whether ai will replace every artist. It's about whether or not ai will reduce the number of opportunities. As technology progresses, jobs which used to take a specialist can be performed by everyone. When that happens, it becomes harder for specialists to find opportunity to play their trade.

In the case of artists, consider adopts and creating character designs in general. Once, it was really common to pay an artist to cobble a design together from a basic description. Now clients can just generate dozens of designs until they find something they like. Eventually they will probably pay to have it drawn, but it has already cut out a job. The same for adopts. Why pay to adopt a design when you can make your own? Book covers, album covers, anything where the art itself isn't really important as long as it achieves some other goal. Low hanging fruit. The better the ai gets the more kinds of work it can do, the more the role of "making pictures that entertain" becomes something that anyone can do, the more highly specialized the role of Artist becomes. It's not unbelievable that in the future demand for hand drawn work will become as rare as demand for photography with a film camera. There will always be artists, but what role do they serve. It's going to become harder, niche, bespoke. That's the real fear artists have about this. Their way of life is getting harder, and it's already hard. I understand the fear. But I also think that it's misplaced. Art has gone through this before. This is literally the same thing that happened when photography and the camera obscura came out. "The masters" claimed using photography was cheating, that it wasn't real art, that real artists only do it by eye. except most of the masters were using the tools. And after the tools became wide spread and people adapted to them, art just became more advanced. This is why I'm not worried about it. Anyone who wants to be an artist will just roll with the changes and learn to incorporate a new tool when it's role.shakes out

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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the adoption stuff was for me always a shady thing to do anyways.
it makes for me absolutely no sense.
i made my 2 main OC´s (which AI can by the way not recreate without that an artist assists the AI and am quiet happy about that) created i in my head, then went into SL and found there what i need. ever since adjusted i MYSELF the OC. all i did was telling the artist how the OC looks like (aka it started with a very basic disign and in the future until now leaded to what chiro and chira today look like) i didnt needed an artist to buy a disign. having it all in your head and working with the artist together is all you need. nowadays is it even easier to do. for example; seany often streams the comissions and works well together with the comissioner, asking often if it is correct like this, anything wrong? and if there would be something wrong could you simply tell seany the spots etc.

TLDR; you dont need an artist to make ya own OC. you only need an artist to DRAW the OC.
tho with the rest of that part have you right. peoples can now just generate something and take it as OC if they like it. tho, those OC´s are often very basic and AI could easily steal the OC/recreate it with which those peoples need to deal with. but yea, the adoption thing would break apart ... i wouldnt miss it tho because for me is it a dumb thing to begin with xD.

but fact is: AI will not be able to recreate "unique" original characters (aka characters where the owner putted enough effort into the OC to make it "unique" such like seanys oc etc.) AI will not be able to do things flawless like you want either. but i said all that already where we are again at the point that AI will not replace artists.
i mean ofcourse could you spend HOURS and DAYS or EVEN MONTHS if you want, to direct the AI with prompts and so on until it works and you may get what you want after SOOOO LONG with big emphasis on "maybe" but, i rather ask my fav artists if they have a slot free to draw for me and i pay them rather then sitting for hours/days/months there with an AI and hoping it will get it eventually right.

and believe me, this wont change. not in 3 years, not in 10 years and so forth. because AI draws their stuff from the internet. and there is just so many stuff of what you maybe specificly want and if it is not available for the AI or you (aka you feeding the AI on your own) are we again back at the point that you would need to ask an artist =3.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

I'm old enough to remember the effect on the world when the mosaic browser became available to the public as a whole.

Every argument I see here about AI? Has already been said, but back in the 1990's the difference was physical vs digital.

Now? How many of these artists on IB are pure digital, even if it's on a tablet PC with a digital pen? That would be considered 'not art' by 1990's arguments.

It's just surprising, amusing, and disappointing all the same that people don't realize this is simply history repeating itself because no one learned, and therefore are doomed to repeat it.

Physical media artists never went away. Digital won't go away either. Change? yes. Adapt? yes.. But go extinct? no.

Merlin

1 year, 11 months ago

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i'd argue it's not that people didnt learn, it's that it's been over twenty years since then, and it's a new group of people who just never had the opportunity to see it play out. i mean, i bet half the people in this chat weren't even born in 99. i cant blame them too hard for not learning from history when it's not THEIR history.

boy am i glad the fuckers crying about how digital art isnt real art have gone away though. elitism is so fucking stupid.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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"	Merlin wrote:
	i'd argue it's not that people didnt learn, it's that it's been over twenty years since then, and it's a new group of people who just never had the opportunity to see it play out.

That is a very fair point.

"	Merlin wrote:
	elitism is so fucking stupid.

Amen to that.

OracularMollusc

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Fezzezal

Considering the biggest niches of job recent technology has created are 1. uber drivers; 2. warehouse workers, I'd say it has actually pushed a lot of talented and specialized people into low skill low wage roles.

KuraikoDemonFox

1 year, 11 months ago

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nawwww *Cuddle you * i love your art so much <3

Neos8

1 year, 11 months ago

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HUGS

Labyrias

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

No offense, but let me give you a reality check:
Panel 1: Ppl unbutton, fap
Panel 2: Ppl unbutton, fap
Panel 3: Ppl unbutton, fap
Panel 4: Ppl unbutton, fap
Panel 5: You unbutton, fap

The majority has no emotional investment about any of it either way.
If you are talented, your art will always have a place. Regardless of how it was created.
Butthurt: Not so much.

And just before there is a misunderstanding: Your art IS good.

AltKeyboard5326

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Labyrias

"IS good" is a understatement is it amazing, fantastic, etc. And for those who have not think far ahead yet who or what is going to replace the technology hm. Having artists like this, seeing there work is a beautiful thing to experience, especially when you can see that they can express them selfs or there emotions through there art.

Labyrias

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ AltKeyboard5326

I agree

SideB

1 year, 11 months ago

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If there's one thing positive that came out of AI art on my end, it is that it made me realize the value of what art actually is. Art is not about pretty pictures, it is about human self-expression. The process, the context, the message and the person behind it are all integral part of the finished product. This is why AI art is not actually art.

missilver

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ SideB

From what i seen to many folk art especially erotic art is nothing but pretty pictures, those who majorly seek it dont care about the human behind but are attracted to the exact style of that artist and the stories they convey.

People only see the artist behind when they stop being horny and look for their work out of pure enjoyment and not because of mindless need to satisfy lust and even then they dont necessearly care of how the art was made when they are unable to create that regardless of whenever it is carved in stone, painted, made in photoshop or AI.

I have lots of artist on my watchlist and many only exist as sources for pretty pictures, few have managed to grab me to actually care about the artist and their world like Bunnybits or Piporette for example to get to the point you need to do something more and im not sure what is that something more but for me it was never the type of art made.

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

yea, it will be fine seany. AI art gets maybe better, that is true but!! and now comes the but, AI can not create to 100% an original character, no matter how hard someone trie´s. they WILL NEED to ask an artist.
i mean, they could make a simple OC which has nothing "unique" on them. but, then is the risk high that someone steals the OC and uses them for AI too and lewds them etc. even tho the OC owner doesnt wants this (like it happened with yuki and afterwards made yuki the OC more unique that AI has it harder).

so in short, AI will not replace artists, i really doubt it will happen. expecially when someone wants their OC with another OC etc.
i can understand that artists fear AI artwork and its aswell not good how AI even makes it possible to make pictures (aka steals art) but, overall will AI not replace artists.
maybe AI "assisted" could turn into a problem tho. aka artist works with AI together. but AI solely on its own, probably not.

like for example; you dranw my chira so amazing etc, an AI would never be able to do that this accurate aka 100% without flaw and so on.

missilver

1 year, 11 months ago

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Honestly i doubt that EVEN if we reach that point where AI could make its own OC flawlessly it would replace artists. People like to be presented a varied diet even in art so it doesnt matter if you have an AI artist cranking out lets say an unique digimon-pokemon fusion world because they will look at the style and decide whenever thats their liking or not.

If that one AI artist uses the program to make black and white pictures manga style and the watchers want to see early 2000's american superhero style then they gonna look for that, not because its AI but because its not what they crave and just like EVERY SINGLE ARTIST out there most people use one style and stay with that so even if someone makes many fast at the quality a human can do that wont matter when the people watching look for a different style.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

@ missilver

It won't.

The same argument was used when photoshop hit mainstream and that all physical art was going to be replaced with digital.

Yea, no. Hasn't, and won't, happen.

'it's not art' was also used when the mosaic browser was first deployed as well, especially when it came to display the works created on computer and presented to the public through the gopher service and eventually the world wide web.

History is not on Chira's side here.

missilver

1 year, 11 months ago

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Around summer i told someone the same, what is art is extremely subjective and art in general are incapatable of replacing others.

Digital photos were also "not art" because all the effort to make a good photo was replaced by a software and some cheap mechanics, painting pictures was never replaced by all the drawpads (or whatever these digital drawing boards are called), in the end Ai will stay and the next run something new happens we will see the doomsday folk once again repeat how it will replace whatever was before it.

Yordraw

1 year, 11 months ago

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<33
Esto es mu cierto..
Un gran mensaje..

Me encanta mucho tu trabajo y tu estilo tan lindo<3

Y meramente me encanta mucho todo arte tradicional.

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<33
That is very true..
A great message...

I really love your work and your cute style <3

And I simply love all traditional art very much.

RIPInkbunny

1 year, 11 months ago

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Yeah, I really hope AI art eventually fades away like NFTs did, the amount of disrespect towards artists that I've seen from those two fads is just depressing.

TwoTails

1 year, 11 months ago

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Yeah, it's sorta like how name brands still exist.
Humans are a paradox of somehow being fickle and loyal.
"AI" is still really just a form of evolved autocomplete, given enough reference all it does is match common patterns together.
So it's comparable to bad writing(like flashy but low quality TV shows) that use like Mad-Libs & word tumblers - might occasionally bring up something amusing but deep down the plagiarism & unoriginality can be sensed & tiring.
Sorta like when Nintendo outsourced StarFox=something wrong with it.
I'd come up with better examples but I'm not really with it right now.

Fezzezal

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ TwoTails

AIs are just autocomplete? Well, our mind is some kind of that. I think the only reason for us to get cerebral enough was to predict the future. Not in ESP way, but like "Will this strange shit in front of me kill me? Or can I kill it?".

TwoTails

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Fezzezal

These "AI's" aren't aptly named.
Detectors/resorters are far short of sentience.
Sure, many use some pseudo neuro networks - which might be operating at a basic representation of how our senses work,
but they don't even work at basic animal levels, they can't/don't comprehend what subjects mean in existence and to each other.
Say they can be trained to detect eyes but they dont associate their purpose even if manually associated with definitions of eyes,
they only weigh the frequent relations these things present as inputs..
words:"eyes"~"see"~"look" ... image: [variations of] " white colors around color rings around blackspots", so what is probably before & next to these.
Well yes, people emulate a type of autocomplete, it's for language, music, navigation & so on.
It's like how people can often understand a made up word that utilizes common word parts, like "pro-neglection", so even an AI might get that.

missilver

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ TwoTails

I think it would be better to call them some sort of averaging generators, i mean thats what they are doing.

You feed in 500 pictures of a mug and create a statitics of what exactly a mug is then turn that data into a rule so when it generates random pixels around the rule makes sure that some matches the average of a mug.

Frenchy21956

1 year, 11 months ago

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The thing AI is still missing for me is hard to put into words.
Best word I can come up with would be "purpose" but even that is slightly off.
take any details of a drawing, like a hand for example, my questions are:
- Why is it where it is?
- Why is each finger in that particular position?
- How does this position affects/is affected by the rest of the drawing?
- Aka What is the purpose of having it the way it is?

When an artist draws, those questions are answered by default, even if I don't know the answer, even if the artist got it "wrong" (if that's even possible), I will still know that those questions have a meaningful answer.
When an AI produces an image, I have no clue how it's "drawing", the AI doesn't think about those, it just placed the hand like it has seen other hands be placed, even if the hand is well drawn, there is no point in looking deeper into it since you know the "artist" didn't mean anything by it.
It just takes a lot out of the art.

It's also why I find spotting AI art so easy (most of the time), whenever a piece of art looks good enough to have been made by a professional, but then lacks any emotion/meaning behind it, it just feels off, there's just something about it that stands out, or rather that doesn't stand out when it should stand out.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Frenchy21956

Sounds like you're running into that uncanny valley issue that a lot of computer scientists have identified.

Frenchy21956

1 year, 11 months ago

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You know what, that's exactly what it is.

Even though it all looks correct, something is always off.
Like seeing an alien wearing a very accurate skinsuit.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Frenchy21956

Ever see the movie "men in black"?

Frenchy21956

1 year, 11 months ago

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I have, very good movie.
Now it's going to be hard seeing any AI image without picturing it asking for sugar.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Frenchy21956

You're welcome. :)

Chimera005ao

1 year, 11 months ago

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People will be fine, until it improves to a point where it does everything better than everyone.
But then people will find a different way to be fine, probably without needing jobs.
Couldn't imagine being afraid to be free.

PhoenixSilvermane

1 year, 11 months ago

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your art is awesome, yes AI art is good but it has no soul

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ PhoenixSilvermane

AI art isn't souless, but it is devoid of identity and therefore.. bland.

Traditional art, one person made and it is made entirely with their skills alone.
AI art, it is the results of thousands of people spending a collective centuries+ more of time to develop. It has no individual identity.

I would say appreciate art for the miracle of science and math it is, less so for the artistic side but that doesn't make it any less miraculous. It's just a different kind of miracle and not one that should be confused with art as it's typically known.

MikeFurry

1 year, 11 months ago

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indeed...

=^.,.^=

Riggles

1 year, 11 months ago

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gay

AurumG

1 year, 11 months ago

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I wish to comfort the floof.

Dagnarus

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

its funny how people bash Ai when just like everything, it requires time, effort and trial and error. I can got through hundreds of iterations of an image, needing to tweak words, look for different avenues and do research to find a way to get to the desired result. at the end of the day, art is art. people will either like it or they wont regardless of the medium. there will always be someone who disagrees. look at photography, using your "ai argument" i pressed a button and now you have an image. still needs time effort and trial and error to be decent. picking subject matter, angle, shutter speeds, lighting etc.

Ai is a medium/tool just like everything else. the sooner you accept it and move on the better.

On a side note, while i havent seen your art before, i like its style and flair. you have nothing to worry about. Dont let a sites algorithm get you down. just because people dont view or favourite your art, doesnt mean that it isnt loved. you do you and be happy with the final product of your work. it took me 15 years of painting to understand this and accept it and finally start to grow as an artist.

Balmung

1 year, 11 months ago

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Keep up the good work! I understand the concern, but you'll do just fine :)

This reminds me getting something from you is on my list, and I'll try to get to that pretty soon

Squirrelxa

1 year, 11 months ago

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It's sad that even art will now be hyperoptimized and mass produced for profit.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Squirrelxa

Sadly, that's corporate work for you. Not a fan of the idea.. but it has already been done.

CGI is a forerunner of AI generated art after all as a lot of the same processes used to create the interpolated frames are also re-implemented in deep fake generation farms.

Pixar has some of the blame on that. The only difference in between a CGI film and one purely AI generated is the key frames are made by machine as opposed to by hand.

Chira

1 year, 11 months ago

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you really dont know when to shut up. just stop trolling and provoking everyone with your disrespectfull nonsense.

whiskeyfur

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner