Inkbunny

both are really evil in so many ways, most of time to ruin someone life

Amberlopear

1 year, 11 months ago

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There is a difference between the 2 though. NFT's generally have no redeeming factors to them. AI though really depends on how it is used. Something is not inherently bad just because some people use it for bad things. As a furry an AB/DL and a cub artist you should understand that cus many people have said the same about all 3 of those things as well.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

sorry, i think in close my mind in both are bad as artist myself :o
AI could be used for some reference, but not for use it as an finished drawing in my opinion
one of my drawings was used as bidding item on one NFT so i needed to DMCA it, so i know how it feels being part of an scam without knowing it.

Amberlopear

1 year, 11 months ago

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Been there many years ago not for an NFT but something very similar, so I get it.
AI if used as a compliment for art could be an incredible tool for artists. For example like you said to get an idea of what a finished piece could look like, or to help enhance your own work. Never to replace an artist. Creating an entire image using other peoples work will never be art.
However if you create an AI and teach it using your own work and then use it to compliment your own work, then I do feel that it is an extremely good tool.
Same as everything through history, humans have tried to replace people with machines and it very rarely works out that way, the AI art theft thing will hopefully blow over soon and same as a lot of other examples it will be integrated and used to complement the skills of real people...I hope.

As for NFT's yeah, they just suck in every way shape and form and should not exist, there is nothing positive or redeeming about them.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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Sorry but i dont feel like an machine tells me what i good for it or not, is like somebody telling me that i you should draw humans more often, not my man i pass, i think this is what Photoshop wanted do same as Deviantart too.
i just gotta say if there is any trace of my artwork in any drawing made by an AI, that proofs what i said to autosnep below, the damage is alredy done, and when AI totally replaces people, im sure people will prefer cheap and easy artificially made stuff more than humans drawing for sure, as i said, when AI work on fingers and they improve it, they just achieve full drawings, and thanks for that, more of than one artist life will be ruined for next generations for sure, wont be an conspiracy.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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oh and of course i respect everyone`s point of view, i hope you respect my point too.

Amberlopear

1 year, 11 months ago

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It's all good, My opinion is just that, an opinion. I like to see the potential positives in everything these days (strong anti depressants help that haha)
but I get your point. Not saying that my opinion is right or wrong, just throwing another point on the table.

OldBear1031

1 year, 11 months ago

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Okay... but why? Training a model is like learning to use any other set of tools, and why shouldn't you be able to profit off your effort? People who don't want to expend the effort will still commission artists they like, and even if they do go to the effort then I'm sure people will still commission artists they like anyway. It's just how things go; can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ OldBear1031

read all of my replies please, i dont want waste my time re replying to everyone the same thing over and over

FurCollector

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ OldBear1031

Stop trying to defend the undefendable. Isn't art no matter whatever you can say. Someone who can't create handmade images will never understand the issue with this.

DiaperedPingas

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ OldBear1031

You consider a computer program doing all the work for you "effort?" I'm sorry, typing in words or giving it pictures to copy isn't "effort," and neither is AI "art." It's the very definition of lazy and crappy, they all look the same and can be spotted a mile away, and they always have something either off or outright wrong with them.

AutoSnep

1 year, 11 months ago

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"Everything I dislike is a scam" isn't a rational approach. NFTs emerged, caused a storm and now nobody cares about them anymore. Neural models, on the other hand, are a completely different beast, of much larger scale and impact. Saying they're a scam is dismissing the effect they'll have on humanity.

Funnily enough, ChatGPT (which can't even draw properly) seems to have a much bigger impact here and now compared to what all the image generating models caused.

The rabbit is cute though. 😁

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

thanks about the bun ;)
but nope, both are plain scams, nft's uses other people art, even very old digitized drawings to sell or bid to anons, even thet tried to sell one of my drawings in those biddings, so i know they tried to scam other people artwork. I cannot link to the current bid since i DMCA that link and was deleted.
Neural stuff for whathever reason uses it, its just for destroy even more what peoples do, replacing what ever peoples work, in this case in particular destroy Art. Make it more cheaper by using chunks of many pieces of original drawings to make its final drawing without credits, and evolving their neural link to make it like an human could do, so it finally destroy what an real human do for more cheaper and inspired by many chunks of human art, AI just needs to correct hands perspective to make its own art.
Obviously i wont like something that can affect part of my life, like drawing is, i love draw, and i knew something like AI will happen in a moment like is happening right now and i will go for natural neurons more than for an group of artificial ones.

AutoSnep

1 year, 11 months ago

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A misuse of tools doesn't make the tools scam. If I use Photoshop to remove an artist's signature, Photoshop doesn't become scam, even though removal of the signature is illegal.

Relying on legally grey area doesn't make everyone involved scammers. If someone draws fanart, they aren't considered scammers, even though it's technically illegal.

You're focusing not on the technology as a whole, but on small irrelevant aspects which aren't inherent to it. Mistakes will be made as the progress happens. Illegally digging graves is what gave us current medicine. We can avoid it now, but the history is messy.

All we see right now are tiny pieces towards a neural model which is as good as human is, at everything. And then, it gets even more powerful. Whether you like this future or not, is irrelevant. It's coming and nothing can stop it, because it's money and power in its purest form.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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yeh yeh yep what ever you say. Future is for progresism for sure and for end with people`s lifes and living thats all what i think from this NFT and AI, its happening and yes no one will stop it, but i rather try to supress it instead of just say "bleh" and moving on.
the only thing i can support FA is for BAN AI stuff, and if i were the admin from this page among with other Art pages is for support Real human artsits, not for machines that tries to supress or censor what humans do, DA fails to do that since is trying to support NFT`s
To those who tries to defend something that just ends with people`s living, i will aganist on that.

DiaperedPingas

1 year, 11 months ago

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Check their gallery, they're biased because they use AI generators, that's why. You can't convince them when they do it.

neuromasher

1 year, 11 months ago

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Creo que no está hablando del arte de IA especificamente, pero de otros usos para esa tecnologia
El arte de AI no es arte de verdad, pero suena como si estás diciendo que TODO que es de IA es una estafa o es malo para la humanidad
Si es usado correctamente, puede generar nuevos empleos más avanzados y acabar con ALGUNOS (no todos) más básicos, dejando que esos recursos sean trasladados a otras areas para promover el desarrollo humano. El arte es uno de esos empleos que creo que jamás serán reemplazados.

Para clarificar, la IA en sí no es mala, pero el arte de IA no es arte. Con eso sí estamos de acuerdo. Eso creo yo.

DiaperedPingas

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

It is a ripoff though, as anyone who would use it as an "art style" is putting forth no effort and charging others for it. But if we remove that entirely, AI "art" just sucks to look at. They all look the same, they all have odd graphical errors everywhere, and you can see one a mile away. I could excuse it if people would do it for the laughs and post a few of the strangest examples, but people are literally uploading batches as "art," and some are even charging for it (which is rare now, but give it time)

EDIT: Just saw your gallery. Everything I said still stands, even if you use it, which is why you seem to care so much and were bothered by this post. Still doesn't change the fact that most people dislike AI.

AutoSnep

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ DiaperedPingas

I'm not bothered by opinions really (in the end, opinions can't change reality), I'm rather bothered by, how do I put it, the ratio. I search for "ai" posts on InkBunny regularly and currently I see 5x more "DEATH TO AI" posts than actual tool-assisted art, which is funny in a way. 😁 Might as well join the discussion here. If there were more posts with actual ML-assisted pictures, I'd be busy discussing the technology with like-minded ML enthusiasts.

I understand that my attempts at spreading knowledge and awareness are futile as discussions in these posts are primarily visited by "AI witch hunters" discussing "stealing" and "collages". Well, feel free to consider disrupting echo-chambers my fetish, I guess. 😆

As to factual errors in your arguments... you need to understand that errors in anatomy are temporary. The neural models will eventually learn to draw even hands. Just compare the images they were generating just a year ago to what they're doing now. In fact, real artists made of flesh and bone are currently being hunted down by "AI witch hunters" for their art being "too similar to AI generated". These are the consequences of this sort of attitude.

DiaperedPingas

1 year, 11 months ago

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You're right, opinions don't change reality, and the reality is most people dislike AI generated "art" because it's lazy, no-effort, and they all look the same. Plus, there are people trying to sell said lazy, no-effort "art." I get it, you're biased, I saw your gallery, but as you said "opinions don't change reality." And you and others can try to compare this stuff to "industrial revolution" all you want, it's the lazy revolution and all it's gonna do is cause the market to get over-saturated by get-rich-quick people stealing everyone elses' art to make some computer program draw for them and take it to the market. You keep saying "eventually AI art will get really good" as if that's a good thing. You're literally gonna be bumping out people with legit talent for drawing for lazy bums who can feed pictures they stole (that said talented people drew btw) into a robot they downloaded for free off the internet until it looks passable, then sell the results. This isn't "revolution," it's crap and needs to die before it takes off. Maybe before you make your comments about "most of the pics I find are anti-AI," you should take off your biased glasses and ask yourself "why is that?"

SnowBlitz23

1 year, 11 months ago

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NFT's and AI are both massive problems. I will personally never call AI Generated pictures art. It isn't art and it should not be stated as such. Putting words into an algorithm and pressing "Generate" and having it generate pictures is not art, its just generating stuff from random words. Where as art has "soul" so to speak, the human touch, the care and detail of an artist.

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ SnowBlitz23

the art style could be taken from many references in seconds and without caring for the effort from many hours from the real artists, people says about AI shouldnt be selled or something, to me AI shouldnt be even invented, i always think the purpose of create things is to help people, not to ruin lifes and inspirations.

Smuggred

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

i stand for NFT and i dont care what you say..
I need me some NFT's

NICE FLUFFY TAILS

ConejoBlanco

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ Smuggred

ha lol you got me :P

Rios30

1 year, 11 months ago

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When working with Parodies, music remixes and "Collages"  the Bare minimum you need to copyright or claim authorship of your work, is to be Transformative. Basically you end with something thats trascend the sum of its parts, Like the Redoin song
AI Fails to achieve  this, as it simply copies the random sequences that artist do to come  with the innate style.
and thats is why AI is an scam and not art. Its just an Incomplete product.
AI Neural Networks were meant to luck-through complex problems, like  traits and factors related to Cancer risk, complex as in thousands of them interacting with each other. using just random-walks and chain of numerical sequences, rather than cause-effect in a proper theory

So how AI made out of the labs anyways?
In usa there is some sort of trend where  you can technobabble idiots into paying for your self refilling dehumidifier bottle - get polluted water from air,Poorly though vacuum train with air brakes, Mars colony without an Atmosphere, any Blockchain-based scam. And so on You might have heard at least one.

When Real Scientists started using Neural networks for Legit multidimensional Protein folding they also left behind the Code for it scattered thought  github. So any coder or hacker could just copy paste the code and nerf it to only work with pictures as a dimensional matrix is just a square with numbers, thats the same way computers encode and store pictures., then  they they quickly realized they needed a Supercomputer to run that mess So thats is when the Grifting started

By using influencers and Propaganda you can Inflate your stock for then to sell your company to suckers this confidence trick is called a Pump and Dump. So you just make  money out of the suckers fake hopes and dreams, rather than offering a functional product AI is just the latest addition to that trend

same story with crypto and many of the tech other scam.

The other similitude  is that  both crypto and AI startup claim they invented a new technology, in reality  blockchain and Neural networks were invented half a century ago, the later was made by a Physicist who never cared or meant for it be an AI component. then people started calling that an AI from nowhere. and turns out that really help when pretending its a New Thing, and technobabbling clueless investors into a con trick

DiaperedPingas

1 year, 11 months ago

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Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. AI-generated art is the laziest, crappiest "art" out there, it all looks the same, and almost always has graphical errors galore that just make the whole thing look wrong. But you know what they say, "A fool and his money will soon be parted," people are stupid with their money and will burn it on scams like this.

SMKDMSQA

1 year, 11 months ago

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I know what an AI is; but what is an NFT anyway?

PinatasNPampers

1 year, 11 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 11 months ago by Owner

@ SMKDMSQA

Non-Fungible Token, which means they’re literally jpegs or other items sold for billions that can be taken away from the buyer and resold whenever the greedy seller wants. People thankfully just screenshot them as they recognize the absurdity of the concept.

Please don’t buy into any of them.

AutoSnep

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ PinatasNPampers

Correction: NFTs don't even contain actual images. They contain just links to images. Short text.

SMKDMSQA

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ PinatasNPampers

I won't but i wanted to know what they were; you can't know if something is good or bad if you have no idea what it is

AutoSnep

1 year, 11 months ago

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@ SMKDMSQA

NFT is a piece of data that contains small text, usually a link to a webpage. They can be bought and traded, and owner can always prove their ownership. Usually NFTs are used as a "proof" of ownership over an image. Legally and technologically they can't prove either as they contain literally just a link to a webpage saying "here's an image linked by NFT".

Scammers can put any image on that page, pretend to own it, and silly people pay for it, thinking they buy some sort of ownership. What they actually own is a short text containing link to a page on a website they can't control.

SMKDMSQA

1 year, 11 months ago

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