*An examination of the Gilded Age-- and even the American coal industry into the modern age-- will provide examples how extreme free market operations compel the actions of 'free people'. Things like labor unions and government oversight prevent that. Indeed, these leftist operations have produced more individual freedom than an unrestrained free market ever did.
*"How is protecting the family unit supposed to impose world government?" Ask the Christian church.
*The right does not want to be left alone. The right wants to run everyone's affairs by their own moral coding, which tends to be a highly personal editorializing and misunderstanding of the Bible. If the right wanted to be left alone, they'd leave everyone else alone. That's happening nowhere.
*Oh everyone listens to the far right! That's why so many people are scared of it.
*Right wingers have been working to project and re-project their mores for decades. That's what the whole Culture War is about. Also, a lot of leftist activism is just wanting the righties to stop treating all non-righties like shit. This would rob the righties of a major source of entertainment so of-course they're resisting.
*Blaming someone else for your radicalization is like blame the alcohol for you being a drunk (rhetorical example).
*An examination of the Gilded Age-- and even the American coal industry into the modern age-- will p
- Those economies had heavy government regulation/intervention, just not as heavy as anything we'd outright call socialism. Monopolies are created by governments having laws to favor some corporations or types of corporation over others. This is especially obvious if you look at the modern farming industry (corn and soy in literally everything "because it's cheap" when it gets so cheap largely due to government subsidies) and the big tech giants in the information industry (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter). More government oversight causes minor speed bumps to huge corporations, but insurmountable walls to small businesses. This is why big businesses love newer and stricter regulations of the industry they're in - eat a small profit loss now but muscle even more competitors out of the market.
- My point exactly. Protecting the family or the sovereignty of the individual doesn't expand government power.
- "That's happening nowhere." It's been happening everywhere, for decades. The result is just leftist power-grabs.
- No, the left listen only to the left and then project their own wickedness and selfishness onto the right, figure that if their own motivations are good and pure because they say so the right must have the exact opposite motivations rather than a similar motivation and a different approach or some practical concerns. Nobody is legitimately scared of what the right actually want or actually say they want, they're only afraid of what the most radical far leftists say the right want, and every day they define more and more fairly ordinary (if foolish) moderate/centrist people as "far right" or even "alt right".
- The Culture War is about how leftists have infested all facets of entertainment media, news, and education to broadcast their own beliefs as unchallenged religious dogmas. Like the Crusades and Christianity waging a defensive, reactionary war to keep Islam from snuffing them out, the Culture War in the West is just the right wing standing up to the entrenched, systemic oppression by the leftist establishment. That's all it's been since the 1980s. Most leftist activism is about enforcing variations of sexism (feminism), racial hatred (affirmative action, low expectations/standards targeted at minority offenders of violent crime to encourage them to see themselves as victims and re-offend), and sexual degeneracy (grooming of children particularly into promiscuity, homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. and then getting incensed if anyone says to leave the children alone). Conservatives have, historically, always treated leftists with slightly better than all due respect while you spew lies and make death threats at us for not wanting to flush all cultural advances and freedom down the toilet in the name of libido and ego.
- If someone wants to rob, abuse, and gaslight you your entire life any you eventually realize they don't have your best interest at heart and start standing up to them, that's completely reasonable. The fact that I remain so calm and measured as to only call out the blatant evil, hypocrisy, open lies, etc. of the far left is a testament to moderation and self-control.
- Those economies had heavy government regulation/intervention, just not as heavy as anything we'd
*The Gilded Age was the high point for laissez-faire capitalism in America. Only after the progressive began regulating things at all were businesses and the captains of industry held accountable for their actions. Big business resentment of regulation has been a lynchpin of GOP politics for generations.
*A thing must be identified to be defended. And the Christian Church has a very precise definition of the family they wish to enforce, to the exclusion of all else. This HAS led to all kinds of social conflicts as people who disagree with the church's position on what makes a family, battle against both the church and the government the church controls. Religion is all about controlling personal action, and is therefore anathema to personal freedom. But then as an absolute so is society, and when government declares that only select personal freedoms are to be protected at the cost of the freedoms of others, corrections are warranted.
*The right are only isolationists on the international stage. Domestically, they are hardcore authoritarians, and NEED to be all up in you business to make sure you're not offending them. A bedrock of conservative media is one long complaint about how much of the world refuses to please conservatives, however distant or disconnected. That's not the policy of a true recluse.
*The left need not project any evil upon the right. The right provide all the evil anyone can ever hope to avoid. This is not the old days with only TV and newspapers. With the internet, everybody's everything is up front where everybody else can see and hear it. We see and hear how the right behave, what they want, and what they're willing to do to get it. And it's all VERY ugly.
*Reading a rightie complaining about someone else's 'unchallenged religious dogma' is glorious irony. The First Crusade was NOT a campaign to defend Christianity against outside attack. It was a publicity stunt by Urban II, framed that way to shore up his faltering papacy. And given the rather poor performances of the Crusades overall, it is highly suspect that "God Wills It". Your distortions of progressive agendas is astounding. You reveal more about your own mindset on these issues than you might wish. Any social progress has only been achieved by pitched battle against rightie inertia, not by any rightie benediction or compromise. Suggestion of progress is derided and mocked; efforts at its accomplishment physically attacked via acts of domestic terrorism: assasinations and mass murders, bombing, arsons, police actions. Entire rightie legislative agendas have been enacted to stop any progress that would threaten the rightie status quo. The righties have no claim to any technical or social innovation or progress. They resist each and every one, often upon Biblical grounds. Indeed, conservatism is defined by a longing for an idealized past where the conservative finds shelter against the discomforts of evolution, change and progress, usually at the expense of the freedom of everyone else.
*The first statement here is precisely why I resist the right. I am fully aware of the menace they present, and I certainly have no reason to respect or trust them. A shame that your moderation and self control has not granted you sound argument... or modesty.
*The Gilded Age was the high point for laissez-faire capitalism in America. Only after the progressi
The "gilded age", as you call it, was an era of heavy government subsidy of industries. Government picking favorites and using public funds to pay big corporations to undergo large projects like the Trans-Continental Railroad when there wasn't really an economic demand for it, inventing and enforcing the monopolies. It was industrial revolution making more profitable companies in spite of these monopolies that lead to prosperity, causing America in particular to tinker with reducing (but never taking off the bandage and embracing) removal of regulations, subsidies, and so forth. Progressivism arose to double down on the idea that the government should own and control industry and in turn industry should own and control the governing body to continue enacting laws to enforce and bolster their monopolies.
Completely unchecked lassiez-faire capitalism could hypothetically lead to a big monopoly as a problem...if its goods and services somehow cannot be replicated more affordably or more effectively to the customer base by smaller upstart companies. This system however has never been tried in earnest, and unlike socialism has only lead ever to greater prosperity and freedom every time it's been limitedly attempted (whereas "progressive" policies lead to product shortages, price hikes, wage losses, job losses, and mass killings to enforce the power structure).
"Religion is anathema to personal freedom". You talk as one chained to a slave galley proclaiming that the breaking of chains is anathema to personal freedom. Christ offers literally the only escape from bondage to sin, and at the end of the day your actions are controlled by something or other. If you don't control yourself to refrain from all self-damaging vice, the vice itself is what controls you. The definition of family the Church affirms is the truest definition - ties of blood and bonds of marriage. Ultimately, all humans are family to one another by tracing our lineage back to Adam and Eve; even physical science affirms this, despite protestations that it doesn't. The more immediate your family group being discussed, the more of the rest of humanity is excluded by definition; I could refer to my most immediate family as my own siblings and my parents, or extend it to include nieces, nephews, my parents' siblings and parents, and the children of my parents' siblings, or were I married I could refer to myself and my wife as a family in an exclusionary way from even my blood relatives. You're probably trying, passive-aggressively here, to intimate that not allowing two men ramming meat rods into each other's sewage systems and hurting each other for short term pleasure shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a marriage or a family, as some sort of crazy and radical thing when really, even previous horrible cultures that supported this barbarity recognized it as fundamentally different from a marriage.
The rest of your drivel here is so contra-factual it's not even really worth addressing point by point. "The left need not project any evil on the right", you say after paragraph upon paragraph of doing either exactly that. You accuse me of misrepresenting progressive ideas because of the uncomfortable truth of what those ideas actually are and what they actually do. You claim that the religious Christian tradition has suppressed advancement despite being what caused it - hospitals, the Scientific Method of analyzing the physical world, abolition of slavery, all of it came from that root.
The "gilded age", as you call it, was an era of heavy government subsidy of industries. Government p
*The Industrial Revolution was the foundation of the industrial monopolies. They were able to flourish because government did not react fast enough in reply to the enormous explosion of production, demand and concentrated wealth that to them seemed to just appear overnight. Progressivism abolished the government protection of those monopolies, put requirements on subsidies, abetted protections for environment and labor, and developed anti-trust laws to reduce market domination and increase competition and innovation. All this is established historic fact. The fact that America (at-least the North and West) flourished at unprecedented levels does not mean the new system was perfect and not in need of management. You are ONLINE! How could you get this shit wrong?
*The Gilded Age WAS America's experiment with laissez-faire government: federal legislation at the time addressed every other economic issue except regulation. Virtually unchecked laissez-faire has been extant, in both China and India. And both Chia and India are experiencing the same problems America did. And so it is: both Laissez-Faire and socialism/communism has been tested and found wanting. Time for something different? That would be progress.
*Christianity has not been about liberating people from sin through Christ since the 2nd Century AD. It has been %100 about bringing people under the very-heavy yoke of the church and the blatant political and material ambitions of the thoroughly corrupt men what run that shithole. All this is also meticulously documented. Eighteen centuries of it and counting. And given the total and rampant embrace of Biblical sin that conservative America currently wallows in, they have sealed the failure of the church to make humanity better. *The church's definiton of 'family' might be ideal, but in practice it has proven far from perfect, the difficulty of enforcing monogamy upon mankind being one of the great moral challenges of our race. It's almost as if we are naturally built against it. And who is responsible for our construction? *If mankind has a single general ancestor, it is not one from Mesopotamia. And to allege that out of all the records of antique times, the genealogical remains the sole perfectly preserved, is a great madness. *I observe that all your bases of marriage and meaningful relationship is based upon the merely physical. Without spiritual love, all you have in the traditional model is convenience of procreation, which was in-fact the 'traditional marriage' model for most of history. Your dismissal of anal sex (which straight people also seem to enjoy without issue) is juvenile and tedious. Indeed the anus, being the mirror twin to the mouth in terms of nerve count, lubrication and cavity depth, is considered an erogenous zone. isn't science wonderful?
*(waves hand) And so naturally you quit the field. Dismissal and mockery being the sole reliable weapons of conservative rhetoric. I have the honor of bidding you a good evening.
*The Industrial Revolution was the foundation of the industrial monopolies. They were able to flouri
