Inkbunny

"	DrJavi wrote:
	Of course, I stand by that. But I'm just questioning my reasons not to like what most people seem to like. Other than, you know, basic sexuality.

Psychologically most people are hardwired to be bisexual but develop a preference along the spectrum usually starting at the first years of sexual development. So, in essence, the major answer to your question is that early on the things that you were taught were sexually arousing were straight inputs and so that is what stuck. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with that either.

I, for one, am mostly a lesbian on the same spectrum but I do like some males and in certain situations. I can recall what gave me that sort of sexual bias. It is rather understandable considering the circumstances.

There is nothing wrong with you refusing to draw certain fetishes or scenarios if they do not appeal to you either. I generally cannot really write a story that does not appeal to me because I know that I will NEVER give it the attention and care it deserves. Likewise your muse would not be in it for the things you do not find appealing so you know the quality of the work would suffer. No sense in forcing yourself to do something or like something that you do not want to. There is a big difference between not liking something and being a hater of it. As long as you do not go around actively trying to ruin other people's lives for their personal tastes then it does not matter that you do not share their preferences. Live and let live and all is fine.

Shnurui

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ UmbreonaDark

Then there are the odd ones. the ones hardwired to like bondage and straight before being able to walk.

Taiconan

7 years, 9 months ago

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"Nature vs. Nurture"
More like both. We just don't know how much one might take precedence over the other, but they are hardly mutually exclusive.

Shnurui

7 years, 9 months ago

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Nature. Nature takes precidence. Desire to continue as a species is an organic need. "Fun" and "Enjoyment" are secondary and require higher functioning cerebral capabilities.

Humans don't take the lion's share on this.

Taiconan

7 years, 9 months ago

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"	Shnurui wrote:
	Nature. Nature takes precidence. Desire to continue as a species is an organic need. "Fun" and "Enjoyment" are secondary and require higher functioning cerebral capabilities. Humans don't take the lion's share on this.

VERY solid points. My only rebuttal would be to acknowledge fringe cases. As well as specify what I mean in "nature vs. nurture"

Extreme examples might be,
A child, even while being exposed to goodwill and kindness all being modeled for them in an ideal environment, will still ignore outward influences to adhere to inner influences and become something completely counter to their environment.

Then the flip side, same circumstances, except when child recognizes that their nature acts in conflict with their environment they adopt behaviors suitable to the environment discarding conflicting nature where they can, using it only when there are no other influences.

Obviously we tend to operate somewhere in this spectrum, and what you're describing certainly leans toward nature as I've described it, IMO.

Hopefully I phrased that right...? Did that make enough sense?

Shnurui

7 years, 9 months ago

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Not if you were trying to make the case that it is more than a cognative difference. As I said, the ability to use cognative reasoning to determine interactions is not limited to humans. Using a hypothosis based on strictly human data, in light of the closing statement, doesn't provide a counter aruguement.

If you could provide a total feral experience with no input from society before sexual maturity that is the antithis of Tarzan/Junglebook's hetero nomitive reaction, that would be an example of what you're trying to describe.

In other words, show me a non hetero Mogawai to exemplifiy a failure in nature's route.

Taiconan

7 years, 9 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 9 months ago by Owner

I see what you're getting at now. And to clarify I'm not trying to "make a case," I'm simply applying logic and personal experience to try and create frames of reference. Perfect example being your last comment. And based on those parameters (apart from being the problem of "prove me wrong") I completely agree.

Context and cognitive capability adjusts how the scenario is percieved and understood.

But I think the dilemma that arises for people trying to make sense of this is when the definitions and contextual points aren't clearly (or completely) defined.

What I find interesting is the adoption of behavior from external figures (some suggesting it's a lack of instinctual persuasion which I disagree with. It could be attributed to preservation.) Allowing them to 'correct' or refine their perception more readily.
And then the opposite, ignoring many cues and patterns modeled by others to pursue what 'feels good' or 'makes sense' based on their perceptions. Less likely to make serious changes to their perceptions because of others.

So, ultimately you are right. It is nature as you define it. I just find intrigue in the way people define such a generalized word, plus what people do in spite of baser instincts because of perceived "reward" is interesting. (Running back toward certain danger to help a stranger. Tearing up a document to spite someone even though it'll cost them their job. Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane - well that one makes a bit more sense... XD)

Recognizing this 'nature' will hopefully bring enough awareness to it that we can work toward altering it to fit our circumstances more readily.

Shnurui

7 years, 7 months ago

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Let me set your mind at ease with the way people use contextual words. When discussing the issue of nature, vs nurture, Dr Sigmund Freud defined "Nature" as the materials and data a person or creature is born with. The definition of nurture in this contextual assignment was the teaching and care of a person or creature before maturity. People aren't redefining or limiting the definition of the words.

Before the scientific endeavors to this question began, someone's "Nature" (It was in his nature to steal the apple without thinking.) was defined thusly as well.

I can see how the other definition could confuse you. That which exists outside the control of man. This however does lend itself to the secondary, if colloquial, definition of that part of man which he can not control.

Recognising it is the first step to fixing it.

DrJavi

7 years, 7 months ago

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I don't even want to block this conversation, how often do we get debates this elaborate in the fandom?

DigitalDomain123

8 years, 1 month ago

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My exact struggles.

Aogami

8 years, 1 month ago

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So you don't want to do gay commissions because you don't want gay people to be happy ... ? That's kind of the message I'm getting here and I kind of feel that maybe that's not what you intended

Norithics

8 years, 1 month ago

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I don't think it's supposed to be taken quite that literally. I interpreted it as "I get unreasonably petty because I'm lonely." The self-awareness angle seems to preclude any real actual prejudice, at least I believe so.

Aogami

8 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 8 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ Norithics

I mean, yes. That is the impression I got, but the implication is that he would be ok with it if it were straight porn i.e. I am ok with straight people being happy, but not gay people. If it were just ... I don't want to do couple art because seeing couples makes me unhappy, that's one thing. But this is specifically about gay couples, and not wanting gay people to be happy. For whatever reason, he's saying that seeing gay people being happy makes him unhappy, but seeing straight people happy is fine.

AlyssaKamber

8 years, 1 month ago

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I think this is very slightly tongue-in-cheek. Javi doesn't draw penises or M/M couples because they're really not his thing, not out of any real antagonism. But I think he's also slightly annoyed at how it seems easy for gay furries to find partners, but difficult for straight ones. He says in the comments, though, that he's on-the-fence about his reasons for not drawing these being enough to justify it.

Aogami

8 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 8 years, 1 month ago by Owner

@ AlyssaKamber

If you don't want to draw it because you can't jerk off to it that's different from not wanting to draw it because seeing gay couples who are happy annoys you. Like I said, I don't think that was the intent but it is how it looks from what's there. I only mention it because I don't think that was the message he intended to send but that's what is there, in plain text. Personally I don't care either way, but a lot of people are very easily offended and willing to take up pitchforks at the slightest provocation and I thought I might send out a kind warning that perhaps he wasn't sending the message he thought he was, and that some people might find it distasteful.

AlyssaKamber

8 years, 1 month ago

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As said, he clarified elsewhere in the comments.

Aogami

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ AlyssaKamber

not everybody goes through and reads all the comments when they find something that makes them angry.

AlyssaKamber

8 years, 1 month ago

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I do understand that.

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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AlyssaKamber

knows me pretty well, so their explanation is mostly accurate. I do not want gay people to not be happy, I am simply jealous that all of my friends have it way easier than me to find partners because I don't like men, which makes me feel like there's something wrong with me. But also, this comic is a reference to a Scrubs scene, so you should take it with a grain or salt.

Aogami

8 years, 1 month ago

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I just wanted to make you aware of how it was being interpreted. I don't have a horse in this race :P

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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I appreciate your input though. I had added an explanation in the picture description to avoid further confusion.

Aurawing

5 years, 1 month ago

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Edited 5 years, 1 month ago by Owner

"	Aogami wrote:
	not everybody goes through and reads all the comments when they find something that makes them angry.

And you get angry very easy Aogami. Hah

Taiconan

7 years, 9 months ago

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"	Aogami wrote:
	If you don't want to draw it because you can't jerk off to it that's different from not wanting to draw it because seeing gay couples who are happy annoys you.

Yeah. There is no difference here. Emotions = illogical, it's how they are designed, it takes conscious effort to get them to operate otherwise (and in some cases will never change, but that's fine)
I personally think your heart is definitely in the right place to bring this up, but it's ultimately a pointless 'discussion' since it involves 'how others might feel' and until the others show up, there's no way of knowing for sure... but definitely a valid fear, anticipating backlash due to perceived hostility... such a base reflex.

Aogami

7 years, 9 months ago

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don't drag me back into this ancient arguement xD

Taiconan

7 years, 9 months ago

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Hehe. Sure thing. But to be clear, I like to have discussions( as opposed to arguments). And since the internet is the war zone it seems to be nowadays, I'm more than happy to pursue any line of thinking in a personal message instead.

Either way, more power to you! Take care!

Norithics

8 years, 1 month ago

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Pffffft you dorkasaurus

FrancisJCat

8 years, 1 month ago

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sabes que..... hay tal cosa como chicas -afuera- del fandom >_>

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ FrancisJCat

Cierto, pero tampoco allí las encuentro, quizá porque paso demasiado tiempo dentro del fandom.

TravisRetriever

8 years, 1 month ago

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*shrugs* I'm gay irl. But the straight stuff you draw (even back when you were an echidna) is still pretty hot. Especially stuff with the beeg T-Rex girl. o.o *gives you a hug*

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ TravisRetriever

Thanks, I appreciate your hug.

TravisRetriever

8 years, 1 month ago

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You're welcome, Javi. :)

VoidBat

8 years, 1 month ago

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If people are upset you won't draw what they want, they can draw it themselves.

Daneasaur

8 years, 1 month ago

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I know that frustration.

Sunkra

8 years, 1 month ago

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Poor guy. :P

Quiet269

8 years, 1 month ago

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*Hugs*

PsyChuan

8 years, 1 month ago

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Hey, it's understandable man. I think anyone who's viewed your work, and the stances you take on various social issues, would know that you're not anti-gay at heart. Definitely not a homophobe.

You can draw what you like, and thanks for sharing the reasons.

sonicrainboom

8 years, 1 month ago

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Funny

TheRevengeX11

8 years, 1 month ago

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1. You reserve the right to refuse service to anyone on any account. That's how a business works.

2. Agreed, I hear of m/m couples in the fandom a hell of a lot more than straight couples, which is something that completely baffles me.

3. It's a breath of much-needed fresh air to know that there are still strictly-straight members of the fandom. I'll spare you all of my stories about being straight-shamed in a local furry community... but it'll just show their intolerance. You keep upholding your standards, and don't let anyone else try to convince you you're wrong for having them. If anything, that'll reveal that the accusers' standards are the ones in the wrong.

PrysmTKitsune

8 years, 1 month ago

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straight female furs arn't actualy all that rare there just 1. not very vocal in the comunity and 2. ususaly taken...as you can imagein straight furry males like yourself snap them up as fast as they show up.

desimator900

8 years, 1 month ago

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Hang in there, there IS someone out there for everyone, sometimes you just have to put yourself outside your comfort zone (Not saying you should enjoy penises), you'd be surprised how easily alot of people can be converted to the fandom once they see that it isn't all about promiscuous sex with anything that moves. Unfortunately that ONE episode of CSI saw to it that furries are viewed as nothing but sex crazed weirdos. Just have to find someone who is open enough to learn about it, and if you're there to guide them through it, that's how relationships form best.

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ desimator900

So I've heard: don't try to find a partner for your fetish, find a partner and, eventually, tell them about your fetish.

TheRevengeX11

8 years, 1 month ago

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Your mileage may vary on this. First I found a partner, and my fetishes are incompatible with her. Can't tell her, or else the relationship will fall apart.

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ TheRevengeX11

I'd dare believe that if a relationship is strong enough it should survive incompatibilities. Even if some things can't be done, there's surely still a lot to be shared.

chonkyburr

8 years, 1 month ago

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Hold on, you dont draw gay stuffs?

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ chonkyburr

I try to avoid them whenever possible, unless it's F/F.

chonkyburr

8 years, 1 month ago

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I just noticed!, how curious i never saw it lol.

FuzzFace

8 years, 1 month ago

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Wait...A straight furry? and two such things exist in the same sentence?

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ FuzzFace

There are more of us than you'd expect!

TheRevengeX11

8 years, 1 month ago

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Like here

davidjohnson

8 years, 1 month ago

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That's why being bi is better

DrJavi

8 years, 1 month ago

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@ davidjohnson

I 100% agree. Sadly, I can't choose to be.

davidjohnson

7 years, 7 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 7 months ago by Owner

Actually, you can. Not that I'm implying you should do it but a friend of mine told me once and I totally agreed with him. He said:

"Dude, everybody is bi; you just didn't realise yet".

What he meant is there will a time where you will look to a man, up and down, and say "boy, that man is handsome", independently if it was a sexual or atractive statement (his appearence, his clothings, fisic body, etc). Not everything has to be sexual

snowshadow

8 years ago

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Haha it truly is rare to find straight furry content. Keep doing great work.

redcrazyleg

8 years ago

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Do it straight way! :D

GreenPika

7 years, 11 months ago

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so true.

I will say though, the quality and loyalty of a person should supersede their gender. I think most would agree they'd be happier with someone who really cared, over someone who was a perfect match. :/ I understand dicks get in the way. unfortunately people don't get a choice what gender they're born.

DrJavi

7 years, 11 months ago

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@ GreenPika

I agree. I have a lot of wonderful male friends who I'd happily date, if sex wasn't an issue.

GreenPika

7 years, 11 months ago

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