Inkbunny

Except Roarey didn't say a single bigoted thing. He stated facts, and people are pissing and moaning and throwing tantrums because Greenreaper won't turn IB into a safe space.

doomcup

6 years, 8 months ago

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I'm not going to rehash all the arguments that were said in that thread.

If treating people with respect is something you don't want to do, accept being treated like the asshole you are.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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So lying to people to shelter their precious little fee-fees is respect? No, lying to them and keeping them locked in a harmful mindset is disrespectful.

doomcup

6 years, 8 months ago

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Science, actual science, says you have the wrong position here.

But I'm going to judge from your general attitude and vocabulary that it won't matter if I go ahead and link all that stuff, like I did on the Roarey post.

Go back to jacking off to Trump and Pepe, you /pol/ reject.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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Science, actual science says I have the right position here. It doesn't even require some massive study.

Male = XY chromosomes, penis & testicles (barring injury or mutation)
Female XX chromosomes, vagina & ovaries (barring injury or mutation)

These are immutable scientific facts. Basic laws of biology that have stood ever since the sexes evolved. You can't change that. A mutilated penis, a vagina does not make. A mutilated vagina, a penis does not make. Your very genetics are something you can not change - not at our current level of technology, at least.

If we were at Ghost in the Shell level technology, where we can pretty much swap out bodies on a whim? Then there'd be grounds for this argument. Until then, though, biology says NO.

Demesejha

6 years, 8 months ago

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Actually if you knew anything about actual fucking science you'd know you're wrong. I never knew you were such a fucking scumbag. Get lost lmao.

And GreenReaper has been openly anti trans for a long time now.

Roketsune

6 years, 8 months ago

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If I have incomplete information, please do enlighten me. However, assuming you're talking about the pronoun debacle years ago, GreenReaper is not anti-trans at all. The issue was, he had this extremely rigid definition of pronouns and an extreme aversion to what he considered lack of truthfulness. To him, pronouns refer to biological gender (and by default, this is true), thus he felt referring to a pre-transition transperson as their preferred gender was dishonest. He essentially took logicality and truthfulness to the point of discourtesy and folly.

I don't condone his intransigence (and holy FUCK did he make a fool of himself in that furry drama place), and he infuriated many people that shouldn't have been his or Inkbunny's enemies. But statements he has made on trans matters besides that one indicate a complete lack of animosity. He believes in government-funded reassignment surgery, and sees himself mentally as feminine. He's not transphobic.

Demesejha

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Roketsune

He consistently fights against trans people not wanting to have their characters tagged as slurs, and has spent ages on e621 campaigning against trans folks so.

Idk if theyve changed but about a year ago that was how it was.

Also, theres biological sex but no biological /gender/ thats the fundamental problem with this discussion in the first place. People like kepora are literally misinformed and keep spouting garbage theyve been spoonfed and brainwashed into thinking is actually science to support their bigotry.

Kepora

6 years, 7 months ago

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See, that's part of the problem - the pissing and moaning about 'slurs'.

They're not fucking slurs; you special fucking fairy snowflakes CLAIMED they were and MADE them into such. Pissy little shits like you conflate fictional intersexed characters with some imagined slight against you, and then you piss and moan which only makes you look insane and hurts your case.

TL;DR:
If it's a character with a male body and a pussy, it's a fucking cuntboy.
If it's a character with a female body and cock & balls, it's a fucking shemale.
Fucking deal with it.

Demesejha

6 years, 8 months ago

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Also do some actual fucking research into chromosomal differentials, even your most basic premise of your argument isn't only flawed its literally outright wrong.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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The only two genders have XX and XY. If you're wanting to bring chromosomes into this, then any of the others - XXY, for example - as so rare that they don't constitute nearly a large enough population to be a gender of their own, and even then they tend to exhibit traits of one or the other. Individuals like that would more accurately be described as intersexed, if anything; they're genetic anomalies.

Also, no - real science supports me. People with agendas, sellouts, and pseudoscience trash are what you're subscribed to.

And you never knew I was a scumbag because I'm not a scumbag; you've just been bamboozled by people who claim to have good intentions, but in reality are doing infinitely more harm than good for people of any kind.

Demesejha

6 years, 8 months ago

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No, you're a scumbag, who doesn't know what they're talking about. Good riddance and good day.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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No, my friend, you're the one regurgitating social justice fallacies; you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. You either deny reality or knowingly lie to others to coddle them, rather than being honest and actually helping.

Demesejha

6 years, 8 months ago

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I am being honest. One hunder percent. Actually do some research instead of sticking your head in the ground.

Youve been brainwashed into thinking anything tjat goes against your bigoted idiotic narrow viewpoint is wrong and isnt real.

But newsflash, youre wrong.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how...

http://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/what-science...

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-sc...

That ones from fucking harvard you really are telling me youre gonna argue with actual science from one of the leading forerunnerd of the field?

http://www.ravishly.com/2015/01/09/neuroscience-proves...

Do some basic fucking research. Youre wrong. This isnt some "sjw" bullshit. Its basic fuckong respect and decency and its backed by real science. Surprise surprise. Youre a fucking scumbag and an idiot.

axlegear

6 years, 7 months ago

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Wow, three fallacies and an outright lie in a row! Good job destroying your own platform. Very Trumpesque.

Kepora

6 years, 7 months ago

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@ axlegear

And apparently if you don't follow their explicit views, you're a Nazi. Typical.

axlegear

6 years, 7 months ago

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The fun thing is that this generation's counterculture is so rudely aware of their own hypocrisy and crimes, they have to completely embrace deep delusions to maintain the facade and end up legitimately dysfunctional. And never, never will they accept even the most basic shred of inherent self-respect or blame. It's incredible how far humans will mutilate themselves to force polarizing extremes in every imaginable situation, utterly refusing to acknowledge reality. This is why i'm Nihilist. Because i've seen all the extremes humans are capable of and they always poison themselves.

Nishi

6 years, 8 months ago

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Roarey called transgender people were mentally ill.
He's also been on file saying racism towards blacks in America is imaginary, and highly exaggerated - insisting the only real racism these days is towards whites.
He's totally been bigoted and prejudice against multiple groups, this is just the latest one.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Nishi

Trans people ARE mentally ill, racism towards black people IS greatly exaggerated (thanks largely to the media focusing on it, making it seem disproportionately higher than it really is), and racism towards whites IS not only a growing problem, but is even seen as acceptable, just like sexism towards men.

So...no. He's not bigoted. He's right.

Zenobius

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Nishi

"He's also been on file saying racism towards blacks in America is imaginary, and highly exaggerated - insisting the only real racism these days is towards whites." - Sources? Because I don't remember Roarey saying that at all. He merely pointed out that racism against white people done by the snowflake students at Evergreen College is a real thing. He didn't say (again, point me to proof if you have it) that racism against blacks was imaginary now.

Thing is: If we want to end racism, we need to end ALL kinds of racism. That is unfortunately how logic works here. You can't say that X-people are being discriminated against while completely ignoring the Y- and Z- people, YES crazy as it sounds, a few asian friends of mine have told me that they had been discriminated against, not being able to attend college because they were told they "weren't black enough". Sure I only got their word for it but I hope we can both agree on the fact that we shouldn't want racism to be waged against anyone, regardless of their heritage, were they came from or what the colour of their skin is.

That being said, I don't 100% agree with Roarey either (especially the unicorn cartoon could've been handled more tactfully, I agree with you on that) but it takes a little effort to take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture here instead of going against a crusade because "someone said something I don't agree with so I will take their words out of context and retweet it as gospel". Discussions can't occur when there's no-one to discuss them with and I totally stand by Greenreaper for keeping the cartoon up. Censorship only limits, it doesn't actually solve anything.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Zenobius

Don't forget them constantly saying Greenreaper's transphobic and has said such things, but never provide evidence of such.

Zenobius

6 years, 8 months ago

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True, seems to be the case in general with these peeps. All talk but nothing specific or it's "the way it has been worded", yet proof (like actual video-security evidence) somehow becomes problematic and should be erased the moment it doesn't show them in a positive light. How did that french saying go again? "The truth, nothing but the truth, but not the entire truth."

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

While I support Roary's right to speak his mind, everyone thinks that their opinions are "facts". Claiming that they are is completely meaningless unless you can actually substantiate and verify the claim.

RollerCoasterViper59

6 years, 8 months ago

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*claps with approval*

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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Well this is what happen when people are so dang obsessed with trans and not actual real issues XD

Me personally? I just think the several gay people around hate the fact their struggles and efforts for gay rights is being devalued by trans. But I only say that cos I'm cynical as fuck and that I hate everything LOL

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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I think so many people are obsessed with it because they feel it "validates" them, but then there's the hypocrisy of the "gender is a spectrum/social construct!" fallacy versus the "RESPECT MUH PRONOUNS" bullshit.

Many people nowadays claim it just to be snowflakes, make themselves feel special and validated, it gives them a REASON to "stand out", when in reality they're lying to themselves and everyone around them. As for the people who actually have gender dysphoria, more research needs to be done in how to approach and treat it, because I'd say that mental disorders that cause you to physically harm yourself and others are pretty fucking severe.

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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Now see that the bit I'm not too concerned about cos my reason for replying here wasn't about that but the reasoning behind all this massive drama *OR at least one of them*

The case with transsexual is how much I'm indifferent to it on account I've kept a neutral stance on the matter. The others, I ignore them cos I'm allergic to stupidity.

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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Basically what I'm saying is, my beef with Roarey on this issue wasnt the fact he said trans are ill, its the fact he brought kids into the mix like a lot of people do, stating it shouldn't be taught to kids EEEEEVEN though religion (something more mentally damaging) is forced onto kids before they are old enough to question it from the get go.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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But he's right, and neither of those things should be forced onto kids. There is a problem today with parents who've bought into the nonsense who're pushing their kids to act according tot heir agenda. And the concern from people like myself (and I have to assume Roarey, given his statements) that these parents are going to let kids do things that could destroy their lives. Surgery, hormonal fuckery, and let's not even get started on the impact on their lives socially. These kids in question are being used as tools to further their parents' agendas, and it's friggin' disgusting.

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

Its never addressed though, ONLY the "SJW Agenda" is addressed, where as right wing agendas involving children is never addressed and that annoys me on both ends (and its why I'm politically neutral), cos it basically bias and cherrypicking and of course hypocrisy.

And he must be thinking of the sessions where they are taught they could be any gender (which is strongly prevalent in Canada, most of Western US and parts of Sweden *not everywhere in Sweden though, like all of Scandinavia they treat these things as an Elephant in the Room*. Cos all the sessions I've read about, witnessed and was directly told about were literal awareness efforts. Nothing wrong with raising awareness. Heck by the time I was 5 I already knew what cancer was and fully understood it. THEN again I'm from a different country.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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Because Right-wing agendas are irrelevant to the point he was trying to make, plain and simple. If you think we think any less of them just because they weren't shoehorned in, then you're sorely mistaken; they simply weren't the subject of this incident.

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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>Disregarding the point in general cos it wasn't mention which still don't invalidate my concern in the general hypocrisy both sides display.

why do people comically miss the point so much.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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I literally don't know what your problem is, then. They weren't the subject - that's why they weren't mentioned.

Ryusett

6 years, 8 months ago

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Didn't see what this is all about but if it is something you do with freedom of speech or freedom of artistic rights it all comes down to the person if they want to leave there call if they say it's there call I believe a person has a right to there ideas but if it goes against freedoms of speech in anyway then it's there lose for leaving

Teisu

6 years, 8 months ago

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Y'know guys, Sometimes I wonder if Journals are really journals, or forums to chat on...
(Off topic, but really. Things like this tend to be filled with comments to the brim. Enough for taking an hour or two to read it all)

Jimbear

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

I found it and I faved it. Transgender is a portmanteu of "gender" and, wait for it, "TRANSITION"!! The word "transition" does not mean "stuck in place". It means "going from male to female and vice versa". I have a couple good friends who are FTM transgender individuals. They go by male pronouns, because they do not subscribe to the Tumblrina nonsense.

I'm a classical liberal along the lines of George Carlin despite being only 33, and I'm sick and tired of SJWs.

Vuk91

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Jimbear

Amen for people like You Jimbear! Let's free the trans from the Tumblerina Gender-Spectrum cancer!

Jimbear

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Vuk91

We can go further than that. Let's free the entire LGBT community from all forms of SJWism, whether tumblrina gender spectrum retardation, or the whole "fight racism and sexism with more racism and sexism" SJW mindset. (And people wonder why we have a buffoon for a president? Backlash, and the fact the alt-right looked a LOT like classical liberalism with a slight rightwing twist, which it ain't, but that's a whole other political discussion for another day, lol.)

You're lucky you like girls, stud. You have a chance at happiness. Me? Well, being a gay man, the dating pool is FAR more limited, and add the SJW Tumblr mindset into the mix, and that already limited dating pool shrinks even more. Erradicate the SJW mindset from LGBT, and shit. I just may have a shot at finding a nice mate. xD

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Jimbear

Age is irrelevant; George Carlin was a fucking hero.

Jimbear

6 years, 8 months ago

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You may or may not have any idea just how badly we need George Carlin alive today. :( He wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade, nor was he afraid of being politically incorrect nor hurting anybody's feelings when being painfully blunt and honest. It's difficult being a displaced liberal like me. Being gay and liberal, I don't belong to the Rightwing (although I don't want to anyway since I can't stand a lot of their politics), and being a white male who believes in true egalitarianism and true freedom of expression/speech, I obviously don't belong to the modern day Leftwing either. First world problems, amirite? x'D

Anyways, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with Roarey's pic at all. There's nothing wrong with Roarey himself either. Matter of fact, Roarey is a motherfucking public servant in disguise. He rid this site of a lot of idiots. ;) It's always good when IB gets a cleansing every now and then.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ Jimbear

Indeed. It's good that, unlike FA, we have the freedom to really speak our minds and criticize - things that the SJW types who're pissing and moaning on their way out simply can't stand since honest criticism destroys their arguments.

Hellawulf

6 years, 8 months ago

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"	Kepora wrote:
	Age is irrelevant; George Carlin was a fucking hero.

Fuckin' aye!

PsyChuan

6 years, 8 months ago

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These comments are cancerous.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ PsyChuan

Which ones? Most have been level-headed responses.

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Nazis were the ones who didn't tolerate dissenting opinion, and the were the ones who censored anything they disagreeded with. While I don't 100% agree with Roary, he's hardly a nazi. We live in a free society, where it is okay for people to have different views, and where it's okay to disagree.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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Precisely. Hence why I'm not sad to see these people throwing a fit over it go.

Hellawulf

6 years, 8 months ago

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Eyup!

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

dilbertdog

6 years, 8 months ago

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sad to see ya go

dilbertdog

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ dilbertdog

i misread the title

papertoilet

6 years, 8 months ago

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who cares

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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@ papertoilet

Apparently you, seeing as you took the time to comment!

papertoilet

6 years, 8 months ago

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update: I still dont care

SentinelX

6 years, 8 months ago

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Folks, the obvious question needs to be asked here. Putting aside everything else, what if Roarey is actually correct? What if gender dysphoria really is a mental illness, regardless of what current DSMV guidelines might say?

Let's say for the sake of a hypothetical discussion that he's right. How would that change things?

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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Very well put.

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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I believe in freedom, so ill or not, if trans people aren't harming others, let them live their lives as they see fit in peace. Likewise, if someone has hang-ups regarding transgenders, as long as they don't act upon their beliefs in a way that violates the rights of others, let 'em be. People should be able to voice their opinions either way. If you disagree, offer a counter-argument, or simply ignore them and move on.

SentinelX

6 years, 8 months ago

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A fair point. But the united states as a society has moved in the direction of believing that it has a legitimate interest in preventing self harm, either through criminal sanctions, or forced medical intervention. Where exactly does one draw the line when it comes to considering something to be harmful to someone?

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

First, you have to establish how something is harmful and to what degree. If you think the government should be protecting us from "self harm", does that mean no more caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, candy, fast food, etc? Some consider tattoos a form of "self harm". Other consider violent movies and video games harmful. Some would even consider viewing porn and masturbation to be "harmful" (uh, oh). Who would make these decisions, and based on what criteria? What if something you think is "harmful" is considered "corrective" by someone else?
Personally, I trust that scientists, psychiatrists, and other educated professionals in the relevant fields know their shit.

SentinelX

6 years, 8 months ago

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Well let's start like this. The process for physically transitioning from one gender to another. Doesn't this involve significant body modification surgeries, and a lifetime dependency on specific chemical substances to maintain certain changes? This is all based upon the person undergoing the process, being convinced that their body simply isn't right, doesn't it?

I'm not saying that it's the same thing one way or another, I'm just drawing parallels. But for the sake of comparison, how is this approach different from someone with an eating disorder that's driven by the obsessive belief that they're morbidly obese, even when they don't even have enough fat on it to keep the vital organs from being cannibalized by the body? Why is one regarded as being harmful and in need of being stopped for the benefit of the afflicted, but the other isn't?

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Sometimes people are born with conditions, abnormalities, etc. that are later treated and/or correction via medication or surgery. Why is it far fetched that someone could be born with a female's brain chemistry even though they're physically male (or vice versa)? If transitioning leads to a happier life, why care? If some people think it's gross or weird, that's totally fine. But to harass trans people or to meddle in their personal, private lives just because of such feelings? Not fine.

Delquea

6 years, 8 months ago

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Edited 6 years, 8 months ago by Owner

You know its hilarious when someone with the icon of a fucking clown have the most common sense when it comes to calling out both sides. 1,000 internet points to you sir.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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What I have to assume many of us think is that there has to be something better to do than the butchery that is the current "sex change" (I loathe to call it a "transition", given it's jsut hacking up what's already there into a vague likeness of the other). If the problem is based in brain chemistry, then surely there's something that could be done there to right it? What if the case goes further, and operations are still desired; why not a process where two people who wish to swap reproductive organs can't undergo a voluntary transplant? At the very least, they'd then have actual, functional equipment.

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Admittedly, the thought of the genital surgery makes me cringe, too. But again, it's their bodies, their lives, etc. If they're not harming others and it makes them happy, no skin off my nose. I don't think people can be faulted for finding it "weird", but I don't think that warrants harassment or discrimination.

Kepora

6 years, 8 months ago

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Agreed. But when it's getting to the point of people openly attacking men and women for not wanting to be with a trans person, or lying about it, well...it doesn't foster a lot of good will.

VileFiend

6 years, 8 months ago

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Well, yeah, that crosses the line. People aren't obligated to date anyone, and can reject anyone for whatever reason. No one should be shamed for that. And if you want a meaningful relationship, it has to be built upon trust and honesty. If you have to lie because you're afraid they won't accept you, why would you want to be with them anyway? As for kids transitioning, they're still developing as a person, so they're naive and often confused about their feelings, their body, etc. Sure, explore your feelings or whatever, but don't start taking meds or go under the knife until you're a fully matured and well informed adult.

Hellawulf

6 years, 8 months ago

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