Critiques and art in general :D by Carrot < Journal | Inkbunny, the Furry Art Community

10 years, 11 months ago

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The very pointed, "get to drawing now" talk reminds me of a lot of bad experiences online that I've had. Though, you saying that you're not a dick does differ from them. Where I came from, the more dickish you were just showed how much you won't sugarcoat things! So it was just allowed and only bigger dicks were able to really get past.

In any case yeah, It's nice that you're offering advice...Ever get that feeling that people that complain about not being so great at art, don't really take the advice you give them? I get so deflated when I meet somebody like that.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ DJPoopypants

Yes yes, I know :(. It's unfortunate that that's been your experience, BUT THAT'S NOT EVERY I SWEAR xD.

I heard it's typically people that hate on their art a ton just have generally low self esteem. Sometimes they hate on their art just to get the approval of others. Some people just actually hate their art x3. It's all craziness.

Yeah, I've had people not take my advice. Sometimes it's justified, other times I'm just thinkin, "bro..."

DJPoopypants

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

You know how I feel about getting critiqued? Well let's compare it to something else...Pokemon, let's say.

I prefer the first two generations. I don't think they're superior, but they are my favorites. Along comes...Well, everyone, saying that it's basically nostalgia and a focused interest in 'not moving forward'. Do I like hearing that? No, but who am I to argue? I'm biased right off the bat. These people don't have a reason to lie to me, and they make good points. I feel like I now must go over to how they feel on it just because of the points being made. Of course I don't like it, but people out there consider this feeling 'progress' and 'growth'.

Exact same experience with drawing. I can't tell if what you're telling me is right or not (though actually I do trust your opinions and taste on art, ect, just saying though)and I get really uncomfortable about it. Even if you're pretty flexible with it, like it seems like you can be, I still feel like I'm held by the balls against someone who gives a critique because, well, why WOULD they be wrong? I feel like I'm held captive by others' advice (especially people who I consider superior to me). No one ever tells you ways to reject critique, it's always about "how to more effectively take critique". I just don't like that feeling. And yes this is the bad experience talking I know but STILL xC

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ DJPoopypants

Yo, you gotta keep in mind - You're a person. And we're all stupid people. And we're somehow on this particular planet, out of 132435625 planets, and zomga in such a huge ass scale like that - lots of things REALLY don't matter in the world :x.

You're an artist, and you're making your own art. If you DON'T AGREE with people, then screw what they say. If you DO agree, then take it and make it your own. It's entirely your choice to agree or disagree. Your the artist, it's your vision. It honestly doesn't matter if one draws like shit or draws like Van Gogh, as long as they're having fun and are happy with where they're at, they're successful as an artist.

Entirely way too many people feel so self-entitled to their opinions, and they become ignorant to others. Their perspectives, their feelings. They live in this little box where their method is perfect, and that's that. Art, unfortunately, HAS A TON OF DIFFERENT VENUES. God, how contemporary-fine-art is such a sought for genre, I have no idea - YET! People go for it. There are "rules" to "art," but they can also be broken. If we keep following rules all the time, then we don't get anywhere new.

If you find artists disagreeing with what you're doing, yet it feels like they're imposing themselves upon you, then don't listen to them - maybe you're onto something new.

Perhaps if the artist is someone you look up to, maybe they've been where you are at - and they're just trying to help.

Critiques are meant to help the artist, not change the artist. I'll never tell someone how to paint like me, or how to draw like me. But I'll tell them how I got there. Or what I think works. But there is no right or wrong way to anything, and some methods will work for people, some won't.

It comes down to this - People can give you critique, but it's up to you to take it or leave it. You'll get good input, and you'll get bad input. But there is no good or bad, it's all subjective. Perhaps what I'm saying currently you don't agree with. That's fine, don't listen to me. But if what I'm saying is feasible, then keep it in mind next time someone's "critiquing" you.

It's your life and your art. You make your path for both. And you're not wrong for whatever you choose.

But I do suggest you try to find a way out of this situation. You've been like this for a while, and it's not good. You should be comfortable as an artist. Showing your work, talking about your work, getting feedback on your work. I'm not saying you should be getting praise or doing things "right," You should just be comfortable.

DJPoopypants

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

My foundation was just that very "If you take critique, you learn. If you leave critique, you stagnate." kind of feeling. It's what I come from so even though I think I've made a lot of progress getting away from it, it's still really deep in there. And interesting you too weigh in on good and bad art. During my formative years I had a near essay written to me about how there IS, definitively, "good" and "bad" art. Of course I didn't believe it, but as I read it out aloud during a stream of mine, people sloowwlly began feeling like they were on his side rather than mine. I think even you'd empathize with what he said, just not the end product. Anyway, yeah as you know I am in just that situation where right now, I am better at taking or leaving it. I really can't bring myself to care THAT much anymore, to be hurt or held to some standards before people begin liking my stuff. I've heard it all from everyone and everywhere @__@

By the way, speaking of slowly over to their side over time, doesn't matter who I showed that IM to, everyone went over to his side. everyone agreed with him, and even if people were kissing my feet previously to reading it, after reading it they couldn't see it any way but his. I think you can tell I'm a bit bad with peer pressure, but I just wanted to mention this because this seems like a case where someone is definitively right on something. (this is about the content stuff, but still)

Eurrugh I don't mean to derail your journal though, feedback is definitely good though, oh GOD is it good. I'm so sick and tired of what I've been getting lately, like I've been trying a LOT on my last few drawings but it's always the same stupid puns and empty comments I've always been getting. I know what would help this though, maybe drawing some normal things rather than trying to force what I want, but stupid comments just come with the territory. Whatever, I'll deal with that myself since it's not so related to feedback anyway.

Psy101

10 years, 11 months ago

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Well HAY.

Glad you feel that way, cause Ive been wanting to ask you for some super tips on how you do your bunnies and their expressions so naughtily cute.

Perhaps if given the time, a step by step method or however you feel its best conveyed. I have other questions but one at a time~ :3

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Psy101

ACTUALLY! This is a super awesome question. I haven't actually figured it out yet, but I DO BELIEVE it's in design of the face.

When breaking down art as a science, we can abstract the forms we see on a 2 dimensional plane. For example, things that are quite circular and round are generally super cute. Think ponies, or bunnies, or girls. Square characters are generally more masculine and sharp. Men in general are bulkier/blockier. So there are small nuances in design that make things "feel" right.

I actually wonder if the arrangement of shapes on a face lets us on a bit more than we know. We can understand an angry face when we see wrinkles, curled brows, angled eyes, a frown. We see happiness when there's a smile and the cheeks pushes the eyes upward.

What I'm purposing, is there's a science in the design of everything in art. Nuances such as placement and angles/curves/hard lines can typically make or break a character design. So why not an expression as well?

That's actually just food for thought. This is the kinda thinking I do sometimes xD

IN ANY CASE! Practicing expressions is ALWAYS super helpful. Keep a mirror around for reference, and EXAGGERATE THE BALLZ OUT OF IT. Keep in mind artists you look toward, and see what they're doing with the face. How are the eyebrows (are there any at all?)? Are there elements in the face that stretch/squash/support the emotion? How much does the mouth sell the expression?

Emotions are generally in the face - but you can also illustrate an emotion based off of pose alone. Try doing that as an exercise. Choose a character, and do some silhouettes of their pose. Illustrate happy/sad/angry, all that simple stuff. Then get crazy with like, jealousy, worried, disgust, offended. Do it for faces too. And experiment, push the boundaries. If you make some silly faces, you make some silly faces - no harm done :3

Hope that helps! Oh, and keep askin' if ya got more :D

SL350

10 years, 11 months ago

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Interesting stuff! You can critique me if you like. I'm always striving for improvements to my work. I've been drawing for a long time now. I started at an early age, but I can't help but feel I haven't improved as much as I should have. It's sorta painful to see another artist have a better grasp of art at an earlier age than I did, y'know? It can be inspiring as well but mostly painful. Lol Good that you won't sugar coat. I need the cold hard truth to improve. One opinion won't kill me. :P

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ SL350

Hmmm - I've noticed your pencil works have a lot of good stuff going on :) Like seriously, https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=412887 - I dig this comic a ton. I haven't even read the page, but all the shots and character acting is totally awesome. Look at panel 4, I LOVE PANEL 4. Let me tell you what's awesome about panel 4.

First off, those characters! The expressions on them are nice and natural, the line work is super clean. The contrasting moods between the characters work really well with each other! And check out that camera work - you've got an "over the shoulder" shot. And you followed it up with a reverse shot in panel 5 - That's legit! Both panels are composed well - the characters are staged for their performances, and the audience isn't confused at where to look or anything. Clarity, Continuity. Awesome.

But in general. Your pencil works seem much more confident. The lines are clean, but bold and dynamic. Your characters are loose and fluid, they could be totally animated. I'm not saying stick with pencil, but I am saying you should try to incorporate it more to your digital works. Scan in a cleaned pencil line drawing and color over it or something. This might yield cool results!

If you feel you're not quite as up to snuff as you should be - I highly recommend branching out in different styles of characters. Cartoon characters are fun as hell to draw, but they also don't quite make too much sense as far as their structure goes. You know when you can like, look at an artists' work, and you're like, "Whoa damn, that character is solid as fuck." That's because you can grasp the form of the character.

It's planar differentiation that can really give dimension to a figure. Now, that's not to say you can't give dimension to a cartoon figure - check out Tricksta's paintings. https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=378139 here's a good example. You can see the characters are basically painted shapes. The head's a giant oval, with a cone for a muzzle, the arms are tubes, toes are circles, hands are flat wedges, fingers are tubes etc. See, Tricksta knows how light will hit these shapes, so he can paint them convincingly.

So perhaps just start thinking of the 3D forms more with your works. Try re-invisioning some of the characters you're drawing. What would they look like if you created them? You can break the cartoon aesthetic and give it something more.

I do really think your paintings have a ton of potential. I'm not saying you should switch over to painting, but you should totally keep painting. Painting will reinforce your drawing, and vice-a-versa.

And lastly - Draw from life if you can't seem to get out of the cartoon stuff. It's limiting to just draw cartoons all the time unfortunately. The cool thing about being an artist is you can just draw whatever, whenever! Grab a sketchbook and go outside and just doodle stuff. Draw people, draw trees, draw buildings. Draw quickly. Most importantly, try to capture the 3-dimensional form of what you're drawing. It doesn't have to be realistic, just convincing :3

Hope I helped :D

SL350

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

Thank you for your input Carrot!  I’m happy to hear you like the pencil work.  I do feel like I’m more in control and confident about it than my digital work.  Over the years I tried to pay close attention to the art of comic making, the creation of sequential art.  It’s not easy!  Let me tell you!  It’s like another user said to me before that it’s almost as if I actually act out the characters.  It’s funny because I do sometimes act them out alone to ensure the character personality I want is being conveyed correctly.  Yes!  Clarity and Continuity.  That’s very important stuff for comics.  I feel the worst thing a person can do is confuse the reader when drawing a comic.

I’ve tinkered around with scanned pencil drawing before, but I didn’t do much at the time.  I’ll have to give it another shot and see what happens.  Very true about the cartoon anatomy statement.  That’s why it’s not so easy to draw some characters in porn due to their original structure.  We got to improvise!  It looks like I will have to go back to the basics of shading, the light source, and color usage.  Painting makes me a tad frustrated when things aren’t going right, but I’ve seen some of the beautiful things other artists have done, and I WILL master it (eventually).  ;)

You speak the truth about drawing from life.  It’s the most natural way to improve I feel.  My flaw is that I always bore myself out of drawing from life.  I feel like nothing exciting is happening.  Regardless, I will try to find the motivation to do so because it is a major element of comic making.

Once again, thanks for the input!  I’ll keep it all in mind while trying to improve my art as a whole.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ SL350

Of course of course, I'm glad I could help :3

One thing though - all that stuff you were saying applies to all arts, not just comic making :3 I was critiquing you as a film student! All art fundamentals/basics transfer to one another in some way shape or form. Clarity is a must in anything we're looking at, not just comics :)

Believe it or not, but this sort of thinking is empowering. Keep it in mind when you're working on something that you're not used to.

Anyways - Let me know if ya need anything else :3

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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this is like some kind of... answer to silent prayers O_O
perspective... how do you keep track of perspective? i always find my backgrounds looking like they are caving in (or caving out sometimes)
so far my solution is to go ape with my backgrounds and just put as much stuff in them as humanly possible to get practice... but this just ends up looking terrible and discouraging.
can you help me sensei?

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Senkoujin

lmao~

Staying consistent with your vanishing points is going to yield the best results. But I'd rather not bore you with vanishing points and 1/2/3/4/5 point perspective. You could google around for that sort of thing. They help, but, eh. I think there may be better ways of thinking about stuff.

First of all, you're going to want to make sure you know the form of everything you'll be drawing. Part of the problem with backgrounds/layouts is having convincing shapes in convincing size relations with each other. So I'd highly recommend knowing the ins and outs of the basic structures of whatever you're drawing. For example, a bed is a giant rectangle. A pillow is a rectangle. A book is a rectangle. A table is a rectangle. There are a lot of rectangles in our life xD. A bottle is a cylinder, blah blah you get the point.

Try drawing these basic shapes in 3D. Just do a bunch of sketches of it. Make sure you get a ton of different angles. Make sure lines that should be parallel are parallel, and lines that should be perpendicular, are perpendicular. Now try drawing shapes attached to those shapes. As long as things are looking 3D, you're thinking in 3D, and that's good!

Now you should try doing some orthographic sketches! It's like, a "3rd person sketch" of an environment, solely for study. Something like THIS except, you'll be drawing props and stuff inside the house.

This gets you thinking in 3D, and with objects in relation to another. If you can do this from different angles, you can start to imagine zooming your "camera" in on a shot, and basically start fabricating your backgrounds.

I highly encourage setting up a base perspective grid. when you start to illustrate a scene. You can use it as a guide to start laying objects atop of it. It doesn't have to be perfect with a ruler, just enough so you can get an idea of the area in the canvas. Do keep in mind your horizon-line and vanishing points as well. There are laws with them. You can google them, it's kinda simple.

Lastly, I would say keep in mind composition before piling stuff in a scene. Design is an elegant science, and more often than not - Simple, is good! Keep in mind, a background is just a background. It's purpose is to give context to the image. It lets the audience know where we're at. You can have nuances/details in the background that aid the audience more so, but you don't want to detract the audience from the main point - the character. The background is always the stage for the character.

That's a ton of info, let me know if it all made sense. Good luck :D

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

most wise council indeed. i don't get a few of the jargon, but that's what Google is for.
i would love to use a grid but then I'll have too much lines to erase O_o and one wrong move with my eraser and it makes a smudge of doom that ruins everything.
it is for that reason i use a series of solid lines to draw instead of doing a rough sketch first.
https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=414491&p...
this don't work well for backgrounds though since the lines are so long and strait.

but this orthographic sketches thing is revolutionary! i once spent 3 hours pondering the complexities of a milk carton before i was able to draw it, but with this technique i can plot out all its wonders in a manner that could even be called scientific!
but thanks again, this advice will have me fixing that lopsided house and street soon enough.
i would like totally bug you for more tips, specifically on shading and colors but i can see this journal is going to get hellabusy and you already helped me.
^w^ besides the answers to the other questions are extremely informative. would love to hear more about that subliminal subtleties thing you were discussing with Riptastic someday, i have a similar theory about the curvature of fur and the emotions it conveys.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Senkoujin

Naw dude, You gotta let loose. Be quick, be energetic. Ain't nobody got time for clean! Not yet anyways.

Most of my ideas were mainly just sketch exercises, so you won't be showing anyone really. Besides. Sketches can have a charm to them as long as they're clear and readable.

Here's a method of sketching that should help ya loosen up. Start super light, and try not using your wrist, it's too slow. But draw super light, many broad lines/shapes of whatever you're trying to draw. When you find the lines you like, go back and make them darker. It takes a bit to get used to, but you'll end up saving a ton of time for it. Besides, it's good to get into the looseness of drawing now. It's not supposed to be a chore/rocket science ;) it's intuitive, fun, energetic! Even studies like drawing a bed!

The purpose of speed is we all still have a long way to go. You don't really want to spend too much time on something that's a little meh. Do a buhjillion meh things, you'll get faster, and you'll get better, much quicker! Plus! It's fun xD. There's really no need for clean lines unless you're presenting the piece. And even still! I do sketch commissions xD Oh, and these studies, they should probably be small. No point in making it super huge. It's just a study. couple inches by couple inches or whatever.

Oh and yeah, i totally missed you specifically do traditional stuff. You can still do the grid thing, Just be light, like I said. Just give it a go, you'll get the hang of it :3

~

Also, you're doing this right. I highly encourage people to read my other comments. More than a lot of it is just good stuff to keep in mind anyways. Art doing, art thinking, art seeing etc. :3 Art's a lot more than the typical "I THINK THE BOOB LOOKS A BIT OFF."

Art, man. Art.|3

Oh, ps - No doubts on that fur hypothesis yo. We can easily tell when an animal gets pissed off when its fur rises. We can get a sense of elegance from it being clean and not ruffled - a sense of defiance/naughtiness from ruffled fur. And I'm sure it gets even crazier than that :D

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

hmm, that's true. i spend way too much time agonizing over details that end up going unnoticed anyway. speed sketches... I'm definitely going to try that, i always feel so guilty for doodles though... not at all Eco friendly after all, i need to get me a tablet and go digital.

O-O i gotta save this text! that loose super light technique will definitely come in handy. tried something similar but i guess i relied too heavily on my wrist motions, always ended up looking like a deranged orgy of hoolahoops.

ah yes the fur does have that communicative function but in addition to the changing aspects there are also those that are a permanent fixture in the character. Specifically in the anime style of fur, the type of curve used can define the characters personality as drastically as the eyes or mouth. i don't really understand how and in what ways this works but it got me heavily into anime. there is probably something on the internet that explains this phenomenon but I'm not one for the theory part of art and i tend to just wing it most of the time.

lol, and the boobs ARE a bit off. i can't draw symmetrically, tiz impossible for me without some sort of guideline.
but seriously thank you so much for this, you are one of the artists i have always followed/stalked with great admiration and being able to receive advice from you is an honor.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Senkoujin

Aw D: *blushes forever*

Well I'm super happy to help :3.
Don't be afraid to ask if you have any more questions =)

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

i would love to ask you about shading and color since https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=410530 is one of the only attempts at color i ever did, and well it was a bit discouraging to say the least... and shading wise https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=389635 kind of ended up being just random dark spots with no actual structure.

it looks like the discussion with Talbotlynx is going in that direction though so I'll wait a bit before askefying you about specifics.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Senkoujin

As a start, and for all things art - I would say the best advice is to stick with something simple. Simple is good! You don't need to have every color of the rainbow in a picture. In fact, you should choose one or two, and maybe some accents here and there. The main thing to know about color is the psychology of it. Certain colors evoke different emotions. Red is passion - anger/lust/loud. Blue is subdued - calming/quiet. Warm palettes result in a warmer image, and cooler palettes result in something much colder.

There's a huge science to it, and the first thing to know is be aware of it! Stick with simple at first, but as always - don't be afraid to branch out and experiment like crazy. Look at PK as an example. Her paintings are by far some of the most gorgeous ones I've seen. They don't focus on rendering and perfection, but they have mood and dynamacy to them like no other. Here's a good example At first glance the complexity of this painting is pretty overwhelming. Yet if we look at it more abstractly, we can see that Yellow, blues and purples are the main color scheme here. Yellow and purple are complimentary. There are also some pinks and reds, and some greens, but they're only accents. The main color scheme here is yellow and purple. Start simple. Always keep it simple - dress it up fancy when you can, but for now, go simple :3

So let's move onto shading. Fortunately, a lot of the structural sketching you're going to be doing is what's going to help you the most with your shading. Don't think of shading as... "shading." Think of it as "facial-plane-differentiation-for-the-sake-of-clarity" lmao. Like seriously, that's it xD. Things that receive the same amount of light (facing the same direction) should be the same value as each other. It just makes sense. So if there's a plane facing away from the light source, it's gonna be darker. Take a box for example. Go find a box, and put it on your desk, and point light at it. Notice one side is brighter than the other two, one is darker, and one's right in the middle. This is generally a pretty good rule to go by, break up your values into 3 to keep things simple.

By doing your structural sketches, you'll start to get a grasp of how light wraps around the shapes. It doesn't have to be a perfect real world interpretation, just so long as it's convincing. So be less concerned with how it would look in real life, and just push the values so you can actually see the form of the object. Cel-shading is a good technique to help see the form of an object simply and dynamically.

Just keep in mind the core concepts. They'll be second nature soon enough. Look carefully at works you come across now. If you can keep most of this stuff in mind, you can start to break down pieces that you like. Looking at piece and breaking it down will do wonders for you. You'll start to notice things instantly, and the more you notice (in real life, and in other works) - the more you can incorporate those elements into your own work!

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

Purplekecleon once did a color tutorial, that bit about "there is no color, only light source" was like some cosmic wisdom bestowed upon me o_O it was equivalent to Buddha pooping on a monks head while the monk was meditating (a deeply spiritual experience but also unexpected and confusing)
It had me looking at leaves and going "tiz not green! its yellow disguised as green!" for a month. but now that i understand color... D: how do i render it onto paper?

i suspect that shading plays a large part in color, sort of like laying down a base color then shading the picture with the color itself. it almost worked in that picture of the fox i did. i just need to get better at shading.
"facial plane differentiation" makes a lot more sense actually. it explains the function of placing simple polygons in the objects you are trying to draw 0_0 i always wondered about that, seemed like too much haste to me at the time but perhaps this will help me by providing some kind of 3D reference.

thanks so much, I'll now go draw random shaded things while my brain is pulsating with this knowledge. might still be a bit early for me to use color though, perhaps once i have leveled up I'll give it a go again.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Senkoujin

WELLLLLLLLL, Yes and no. There are rules in art that can be broken, and you achieve much much more when you do (usually, if you know what you're doing). Color does exist, there is local color in all objects. But the light source does certainly change its appearance. Turn the light off in a room, everything goes black - prime example xD.

So yeah, that's some crazy awesome shit she's doing - and her paintings back it up. But that's some advanced stuff I'd say xD.

Stick with the values as you said :3 There's PUHLENTY you can do with just value alone (Like, anything really). So have fun with it :3

By the way, Thanks for asking and stuff. Honestly, me helping people kinda helps me out as well. I re-find knowledge that I've forgotten, or I'll relook at things (like PKs tutorial) and get more out of it a second/3rd/4th time around. Critiquing/educating is kinda a 2 way thing. It helps you and me.

Unfortunately this journal's been getting less attention than I'd hoped, sometimes people just aren't looking for an opportunity to improve or something :x But it's good to talk to someone at least ^-^

Senkoujin

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

no its really true in reality too, colors are just reflected light and the ranges of wavelengths in it determines the colors in it. the only part objects play in having colors is which wavelengths they reflect and which they absorb, thus the colors are all products of the light source. and that's not even going in to how your mind screws with colors to make you THINK you are seeing colors that ain't even there. its things I've always known but when its was presented in that way, the universe made sense for a split second... after which i think i blew a fuse and kept pointing at the ladybug thing with my mouth hanging open.
i saved the tutorial so that i can read it when "I'm ready" for it. o_O since every time i watch PK on inkbunny something calamitous happens to my computer.

trying to better my value-ing skills have only resulted in: https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=416578
which was fine, kind of creepy but fine. I figured it was just the anime style face not working with attempted realistic shading...
then suddenly------> https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=416590
o-o i have NO idea wtf went wrong... the girl i tried to draw wasn't.....didn't....she looked normal for poops sake.

lol, in the lab we had a saying "see one, do one, teach one. that's how you truly learn" and its true, sharing knowledge makes your mind acknowledge... that knowledge.

perhaps people forgot that the journal is also for asking you to give critique on specific images and not just asking about stuff like shading and color... ^_^" guess that's my fault.
but seriously I'm like a socially starved chatterbox with no real life life, thus i can talk about this stuff infinitely :3 so if you ever just feel like talking about anything feel free to PM me or lure me in with a journal.

SenGrisane

10 years, 11 months ago

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I like getting critique. But I often draw so silly/cartoony things it is hard to criticise (I guess).

Are there any things I can't link (things you don't wanna see?)

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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Edited 10 years, 11 months ago by Owner

@ SenGrisane

Cartoons are a serious art~ There's a ton to them actually, much like any art really :/. But yeah, there's much more one can suggest rather than drawings =)

No no, link me whatever.

I have a few suggestions just from looking through your gallery - But if you want me to see something specifically I'll check it out :3

SenGrisane

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

This one has given me the most trouble.
https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=370634

I can't make this look like I'd like to. It always looks rather... odd (for a lack of a better term). Maybe you know how to improve it ^^

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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Edited 10 years, 11 months ago by Owner

@ SenGrisane

Ah, this is a tricky one.

You set yourself up for disaster with such a complex concept xD! Pregnant lady getting DP'd, and the twins are also being penetrated? Ooph~

Naw seriously, this one's a toughy. I've been sitting here for like, 5 minutes trying to think what I would do differently. Honestly, I may just try and suggest a different concept lmao.

If it's any consolation I think it actually does work really well. You're doing a good job separating your silhouettes with the characters (and inside a belly at that!). Yet you've got them interacting passionately (a bit calm for being penetrated by something the size of their body, but hey - Furry poooorn |3).

The bottom dick took me a second or two to figure out what it actually was, and the top one is heavily deforming the characters body. These sort of things are a bit unclear and may cause the audience to tilt their head before quite getting what's going on.

Honestly it's difficult to fix though. You're cramming A LOT OF STUFF in a LITTLE SPACE. These sort of things will come up in commissions. It's easy to go overboard and let your imagination run wild, but you gotta be able to back it up as an artist. Sometimes there are just things that PLAIN WON'T WORK. Think of like, 2 fem pichus licking each other out. Their heads are way too large for tiny bodies. It would be difficult to get a good view on the action, or at least on any of the bits.

HOWEVER. This is mutha-fuckin'-art, And where there's a will, there's a way. But you gotta get fancy.

WHAT IF! This image was not just one. But TWO! Like with an X-ray dealie on the side? The main picture can be this pregnant girl being double-penned, and an Internal shot of the two makin'out and also being penetrated!

Clarity is what makes or breaks a picture. If the audience can't tell what's going on - they're going to leave and look at something else. At the same time be as creative as you can be with solving these problems. They're gonna come up, especially when taking commissions. Some commissioners don't know what's easy/not easy to draw, or what can/can't. Some things sound good, but when you put the pencil to the paper, there's just no way. That's where the problem solving comes in! There's usually always a way, you just gotta try something different.

It's crazy and tough - but you'll figure it out :)

SenGrisane

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

Thanks for this detailed description. And yes. I guess there is not much you can do with such a complex image.
But your input has helped :3

Thanks ^^

Halbean

10 years, 11 months ago

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I know the only way to get better is to just keep drawing more and more, even in my sleep! My only problem I have with that though is I generally tend to procrastinate or simply lack the drive to draw when I should. My brain may say "DO IIIIIIT!" but my hands end up saying "NEVER!" XD

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Halbean

Ugh, inspiration and motivation. Two devils that I can never seem to beat.

I've heard that one of the best things to do is try to remember the last time you were on your game. Try to recreate that exact situation and go for it. Developing a ritual might yield decent results (AND IF IT DOES, TELL ME!). Maybe you shower and think about what you're gonna draw, and then you draw after the shower 8| I don't know xD

Honestly I wouldn't push yourself with it too much. There's a point when your hand cramps, and you're like, "BUT HAND, WHY NOW, WHAT'S GOING ON." Fact is, you're going to want to do stuff, and you're going to not want to do stuff xD. I usually find my best stuff comes out when I'm not pressured or I'm just having fun with stuff. Just loosen up and draw! Right? And if you can't? No worries. As a story-teller, you've gotta keep your inspiration tank on full! I'm sure you've heard many times, go hang out with friends! Go see a movie! Go hiking! Ya gotta live life~ Inspiration comes from life :).

BUT, Corny stuff aside. When I need to get down and dirty and just draw for hours - I typically just play some awesome dubstep and just go for it xD! Music tends to loosen me up, so things end up working better. Maybe a ritual? Probably not.

OH, Also! Try a different medium! Go do some pen stuff, or some marker things. Maybe whip out some ink, or charcoal. My expectations are always shit whenever I do a different medium. So I just end up having fun and make stuff I'd never do normally O.o. Actually switching things up in general usually yields some cool results. Go do some environmental designs! Do more character designs! Make some illustration scenes/mood scenes. Go do some crazy painty stuff.

It's that fun magic that we had when we first discovered drawing that we gotta find again xD. It keeps running away but we'll get it!

Ah, and one last though. I think you can actually mentally draw stuff. Like, if you can imagine how you would draw something, then like, you can probably draw that. I like to "mentally draw" things I see in real life. Just kinda like form-seeing practice. I'll look at a piece and form draw in my head and stuff xD. I dunno, it's fun. I like to think I'm learning something x3

I dunno if any of that was helpful. I'm sure you've heard it all tons of times before :x

Talbotlynx

10 years, 11 months ago

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I always love when I can get an honest critique. Lately I wind up getting people arguing over whether a point of style is an anatomy point, bad presentation or part of a look when people drop in on a pic to do anything other than say they like it or try egostroking me.

*The rest of this is just general discussion based on those that got here before me.* :3

The last time I had a good critique on was the kimono vixen one I did. Got a good one, and then someone started complaining about line weight and consistency. After that it devolved into name calling among viewers over whether it was a play on brush strokes or other such things. That was off of a forum that usually just ignores me. Glad I didn't get dragged into the drama the pic created over there. Can't remember the last time I got a really good, honest critique, that wasn't aimed at being some sort of dressing down, prior to that.

I have a personal quote tacked up in my sig on a few forums. "A good critique is sometimes harsh even when the critic likes it. What makes it good is the advice for the one receiving it." Words I came up with many years ago that have served me well as a mantra through many a bad critique. Why bother paying attention when there's nothing valuable to glean? There's some gems hidden in that there slop, sometimes.

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Talbotlynx

Couldn't agree more! Feedback in general is super important for an artist. Even the most inexperienced viewer can point out a flaw. It's just a shame when people default back to the same things xD As I said earlier, art is much more than, "That boob looks funny" xb.

Didja have anything you wanted to ask or know about? Perhaps you can link me something or something :3

Talbotlynx

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Carrot

Nah, not specifically. I only ask what I'd ask of anyone. Look at images, mine or otherwise and be honest. I know I'm not the only one that doesn't get a lot of feedback on things. :3

Carrot

10 years, 11 months ago

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@ Talbotlynx

Hmm, It seems you have a pretty decent grasp on drawing in general. I see in some of your sketches you're using under-structure, and I just highly recommend thinking/drawing in form all the time. So keep that up.

One of my main suggestions would be to let loose a bit more =). You've got a ton of super clean lineworks, and that's interesting and all, but sometimes things tend to get a bit flat and stiff. We see the linework as design itself and the character comes second. Plus, I'm sure most of those lineworks take forever - I'm a line-art nazi too, I know how it goes x3

So get a bit looser, go a bit quicker! That sorta thing. I'd also think it'd be interesting to see more of your color works/shaded pieces. Most of your gallery is black and white, and y'know, there's nothing wrong with that. BUT! Shading/adding value to your images is a very good way of creating form/dimension in your characters. Plus, it adds more interest in general :3 Nicer final pieces, and you're learning and getting better too!

Color too! There's hardly any pieces with color. Color is a hard thing to master, so all the practice can help! But this is another thing, don't waste your time coloring in the lines and being all precise. That's nice and all, but takes foooooreeeeverrrr. Just be loose, have fun, and experiment with a tons of different stuff!

You want to stay as broad and open as you can. That way you're never in a lull with your art. Do new stuff, and do crazy wacky stuff. Experiment and you'll find new favorite methods of going about things :3

Talbotlynx

10 years, 11 months ago

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Edited 10 years, 11 months ago by Owner

@ Carrot

Colorings easy. Used to do color work for folks before I went into the military. Even did a few side jobs for Jager Dipaola Kemp doing color work with the Burton team, before they got their own in house folks over there, when I was in high school. Think that's the biggest hint I've ever dropped on where my hometown is. lol

Coloring lines is easy if you know a few old digital tricks they used to teach for photo manipulation. Takes me less time to color the lines than the rest of a picture. Maybe I should just make a quick tutorial at some point with how much I've been explaining it to folks around the web lately. :D

Been working on trying to get digital painting down, but my computer isn't behaving well enough to get serious with it or let me load in any more programs better than OC4.5pro on that goal. It's most of why I haven't been coloring too much of my random works. I will admit that it's also partially due to being tired so dang much and just generally wanting to move onto the next pic too though. (heh) Been toying with the idea of playing with real watercolors, scanning and combining images, but I haven't done that sort of thing in over a decade, and it always had mixed results. Sometimes epic, sometimes awful. -_-;

Thanks for the input! It's some of the best I've gotten in a while!

SpyWerewolf

10 years, 10 months ago

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Well, if you're still giving advice and stuff, how do you get your drawings to look so fluid? I feel as if most of the time I can never get any drawings to not feel stiff and static. Any advice for that?

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