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Interesting Conclusion!

I had a very interesting conversation with manaita https://manaita.deviantart.com/ whom I'm sure you already know as a Japanese Sonic fan, she kept me updated with some news in Japan before but I haven't heard from her for a while, until very recently, so here's the conversation:

sonictopfan: Anyway I wanted to ask you something since you're from Japan, is it okay if I ask?

manaita: Sure. Ask away!;)

sonictopfan: Is it true that Sonic is not popular in Japan like Sonic Retro say? :?

manaita: Yes. Sonic is not so popular even many people think he is an American cartoon character. :sad:

sonictopfan: Why? :? He's more Japanese than American, at least imo, do you at least like games with dark plots like Adventure 2 and Next Gen or do you prefer the ones with silly plots like Colors and Generations? :?

manaita: The image SEGA gives him is "American cartoon".
Animal character with vivid colors and high speed acrobatic actions, that attitude is rare in Japan.
Actually, SA2 and Next Gen have awesome plots, because Shirou Maekawa wrote those. He already has left SEGA a few years ago, and they lightened the weight of the game's stories nowadays. His last work at Sonic is Sonic and the black knight. That has good story, I think.

sonictopfan: I see, I kinda agree with that, being eastern I don't like the way modern Sonic games are, but it's not SEGA to blame actually, it's them American old fans who keep complaining why Sonic isn't the way they like and is more eastern than western, neglecting how we easterns also have Sonic fans among us, they literary said once to me "good riddance" when I brought that up, yes I'm talking about none other than Sonic Retro, the cause of everything that is bad in Sonic!

Whoa so Shirou Maekawa is the guy who wrote those games? I can assume he didn't leave by himself but SEGA fired him to please the American fans, this is the guy I want in my Sonic games, he wrote the games that actually had good plots, I assume he also wrote Shadow The Hedgehog?

It appears my theory in why's Sonic not so popular in Japan anymore is true, it's because new Sonic is more "western" than the one we grew and loved, he's more "cartoony" rather than "anime-like" and the plots are silly and childish to the point it's embarrassing to play these games if you're older than 7 years old, we have Sonic Retro to thank for this not SEGA :(

It bothers me to know Maekawa is the one who wrote my favorite games and he no longer works for SEGA, this means there's noway in hell a Sonic Adventure 3 will ever happen and it's only a matter of time until I completely lose interest in Sonic because with the direction the games are going now I'm day by day losing interest more :(

Link to the conversation: https://comments.deviantart.com/1/334206120/2795976140

I guess this confirms it, now you know the truth, it really bothers me because it seems the reason why I been feeling bad about the new games is because of the culture thing and the taste of gaming, you know people here in the east have different tastes, games like Halo and CoD don't really interest us, silly plots we don't like either, I'm sick of Eggman being all Gargamel from The Smurfs "oh thank you my dear, keep calling me evil, mean, and disgusting" it may seem cool for some people but I for once can't stand it, there's always a reason why bad guys act bad, and it's not because they WANNA be bad :(

Looks like there's no hope for a Sonic Adventure 3 now, all these years I had hope because I thought Iizuka is the one who likes serious plots for Sonic games but I was wrong!
Viewed: 32 times
Added: 6 years, 2 months ago
6 years, 2 months ago
I still think Sonic is still around. As long as there are fans out there.
6 years, 2 months ago
6 years, 2 months ago
Just to stand out there, I am American, and I got to say that I kinda agree where you're coming from. Personally, I prefer the anime version of Sonic and I also enjoy an older game over a newer one from time to time because most older video games that were made 'actually' had a good story and plot to them. I own A LOT of video games and consoles (this collection includes everything from Attari to PS3) and I got to say that I enjoy the older games a lot better than the newer ones. But in fairness, there are some newer games aren't that bad. I don't particularly 'like' the Halo or CoD series that much, but there are some pretty decent ones out there. I do feel kinda disappointed in what some of the things we grew up with turn into something that's just bad in general . Huh.... I digress. Anyway thanks for clearing  the air on the subject for us.
6 years, 2 months ago
First of all thank you for backing me up and I hope I didn't offend you with this journal (apparently some were offended of it, I apologize about that), as for the games I agree too that I find older games to be better but not because I grew up with them (nostalgia) because I still enjoy some fan made games too, not only that the new ones lack plot but also the gameplay is not as open as it used to be, it's hardly 3D anymore!

I didn't know you guys had the Atari as well, I can't say I met many guys on the internet who knew the Atari, I thought I was the oldest, but I don't have my Atari anymore, fact is the oldest console I have is the Dreamcast but I always keep emulators and ROMS for the games I owned just in case!

Personally I hope future Sonic games to have plots again, good ones like the Adventure games not like Colors and Generations, but I can't speak for everybody, anyway I won't be selfish and say I want all Sonic games to have plots and open world gameplay since many fans like the newer games but I hope SEGA would at least consider keeping both styles, those Retro fans been getting games for them since 2008, they gave them Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 4, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, and they still complain and want ALL Sonic games to be like that, what about us the Adventure gamestyle fans? We been waiting since 2006, the last we got was Sonic Next Gen and it's no longer in stores, it's not fair!
6 years, 2 months ago
Oh man, noooooou! we want old sonic, or good stories, not last shitty stories of new games! well...

But for me, stories of sonic always have been too random xD!

But now, amy looks more obssesive and sonic more arrogant, I hate that almost all 3D games...


Super interesting, I wish would put in my faves, but in IB i can't xD
6 years, 2 months ago
Well you can fave it on DA ;p and thank you for backing me up and for the kind words!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only "freak" who liked dark serious plots in Sonic games and hates the new games so much, I must say reading your comments I'm starting to have hope again to have Sonic Adventure 3, it seems more fans want it to happen than I thought there is, still with the absence of Maekawa even if they made Adventure 3 will it be good? We all seen how Sonic 4 turned to be!
6 years, 2 months ago
I'm from Mexico, and personally I don't think I fit the stereotype that easterns have from westerns, especially when I think I'm more of an "all around" videogameplayer that equally enjoys both "mature" games as well as those that have blue skies and colorful worlds regardless of the genre.

In regards of what I think Sonic should be about, I don't think that plots like the one from SA2, let alone Sonic 06 were the best way to go. However mind you that my stance on this matter has more to do with keeping Sonic's identity of what he is (a cartoony anthropomorphic hedgehog that fights this supervillain in colorful and vibrant worlds) than with having a bias towards the classic era. I say this because stories like the ones I mention do not really feel like "Sonic stories" as the bring many elements that no only look out of place such as military organizations that perform illegal operations and "silence" people involved in them by deadly force or the assassination of young girls like Maria, but also having stories that take themselves far too serious in an attempt to be "epic" end up feeling pretentious. A good example of what I'm trying to say would be to use silly loiking puppets perform dramatic scenes... it's like trying to mix water and oil.

However on the other side I do not like how the recent stories have been done. Personally I don't oppose having lightearted stories because Sonic n it's essence is about being lighthearted (after all there is a reason why he is a cartoon character), but the thing is that the ones presented have no heart/substance because the oversimplistic way in which characters are reduced to shallow caricatures of what they once were do not allow one to relate to them (a must if you want to engage the audience) on top of plots that feel more like doing a mundane chore than an actual adventure. Long gone are the days when the characters were not only presented, but also developed like in Sonic Adventure 1 (the game that IMO better handled the characters, especially Tails, Amy and E-102 Gamma, a very underrated character that brought much more depth than Shadow ever did, a thing achieved without using alien concepts for a cheap shock value like murder)

Still, while I could at least live with it as long as the gameplay elements were solid, however that's the other problem: the games just don't deliver anything surprising anymore. For example Sonic 4, a game of which I could bare some flaws (like physics) if it at least had some incentive like other playable characters (I miss Amy, especially in her Advance 1 style which puts a lot of characters to shame) but it didn't because "people do not want them", a claim that I can contest since a lot of people began their own effort to bring them back, like all those Generations mods for the PC version, or the many rom hacks of the Genesis trilogy (particularly the ones made by E-122), Heck even with the re-release of Sonic CD they added one (saddly it was Tails, a huge mistake because that is the game where Amy was introduced, and along with her more complete gameplay style, she had more right to be playable there than Tails, then again it was a missed oportunity because Sega was too busy overhyping Tails to raise interest in Ep. II, only for them to be screwed again with a semi-playable character), Frankly, here I blame not only the radical retros that want only Sonic/Tails/Knuckles, but also the peope who pointed fingers at the other characters for the dumbest reason, and also Sonic Team for using them as a scape goat to keep themselves from admiting their mistakes.
6 years, 2 months ago
But that IS exactly my point, this only proves that eastern/western differs wither believe it or not, you say "it makes no sense for a talking blue hedgehog to have serious plots about secret weapons and assassinating little kids" but this is because you grew up in a culture where this doesn't work for you, I grew up in a nation where we had "Kaleela wa Demna" a book that ONLY talks about talking animals and having serious plots, we didn't grow up with Humpty Dumpty and Mother Goose, we grew up with stories like the lion and the three buffaloes, and for the record water and oil CAN be mixed if you mix it correctly, we actually have many foods like that, we even mix water, oil, chowder, and yogurt, in one soup known as "Manfas" over here and guess what they mix 100% if you mix them right and long enough!

I still don't understand why people keep saying "classic Sonic games were in colorful imaginary worlds" because I seriously don't see it, if you mean time travel in Sonic CD we have that in Sonic 06, if you mean the green levels we have those in almost every game, Sonic games were never meant to be in a colorful place, they were always set on Earth not Mobius!

I will agree with that, while personally I prefer dark plots like Sonic 06 and Shadow, I'm perfectly fine with Sonic Adventure plot, it's a mile better than what we been getting since Unleashed, the characters hardly appear now to even develop, I can't be the only one bothered by that!

Yeah E-122 is amazing, you hardly believe Sonic Retro actually enabled his account there and is being respected, he's so not like them but he's actually kind and modest!

This I absolutely agree with, the gameplay in modern games, the lack of 3D sections and exploration elements, the small areas where there's not enough room to go left to right but only boost to win, the lack of item boxes, not being able to even rotate the camera, and most of all the lack of other characters (despite me being a Sonic fan sometimes I feel like playing with other characters) really bother me!

I think the best way to bring back characters yet please all the fans is do it like Black Knight or Rush Adventure, you get to choose each character you wanna play with, which has its own unique moves and maybe exclusive routs, but they're totally optional and can be changed from one level to the other so you won't be forced to stick with the one you picked at first, and still be able to beat the whole story even if you play with one character!

I'll have to disagree with you about Amy though, while I agree her Advance 1 gameplay was really interesting and I'd love to see more of it, she wouldn't have been recieved well had they chose her in Sonic CD instead of Metal Sonic, not that I mind either, they're both better than Tails in my book, I'm also sick of "Sonic, Tails, Knuckles" shit, why Knuckles? I understand Sonic and Tails though but KNUCKLES? Why not Amy? She was created before him, she played a bigger role than him, and she's more popular among fans now than Knuckles ever was, just because Sonic Retro like him doesn't mean he shall always be there, fuck that echidna!
6 years, 2 months ago
For the record, I never grew up with reading children's stories like the ones you mentioned.  I sorta developed my own interests over time. Anyway, I agree with the fact that the characters don't get to develop much in the more recent games. To me, you don't just take a bunch characters that you're going to assume that everyone knows about, into a game that doesn't provide any form of background or 'real' plot to it. Secondly, I rather enjoyed Amy's gameplay in Advance 1. I don't think that it would be bad to play more of her in any future games (possibly goods, if made).
6 years, 2 months ago
Everyone's childhood is different!

As for the plot like I said at DA, the plots wouldn't be seen so unfitting if the cities had humans AND animals in them, then when they make a serious plot with Dr. Eggman threatening the president to either surrender or he'll wipe out the planet, those fans who think Sonic is too colorful to be taken seriously (which I find this logic as weird as the logic that says nerds were created so that bullies can bully them) won't be complaining, same with Elise, had she been Amy or any other animal girl they wouldn't had been complaining for the love relation, heck they didn't mind Sally being a squirrel back then so why complain when she's human?

As for Amy's gameplay in Advance, I didn't say it's not interesting, on the contrary I said it IS interesting and I'd love to see it return, maybe in Sonic 5 they can bring back other playable characters? I mean even Mega Man 10 did that right, but what I said is that Amy (especially classic Amy) isn't as popular among the older fans who bought Sonic CD as Metal Sonic or even Tails, had they went for a character from the game it should make more sense to go for Metal not Amy, also Amy would require a lot of editing for sprites unless they just go with what E-122 created which already looks fabulous but then they're gonna have to at least credit him if not pay him!
6 years, 2 months ago
Sorry for the late reply, but since you made it as another port instead of a reply it did'nt appear on my list of messages. XP

I think maybe a more clear example of what I want to say about "comical cartoon characters" looking out of place in a serious plot (or viceversa, the srious plot being the element that is out of place) would be to put Bugs Bunny in a story where he has to twart a conspiracy like the ones from th TV show 24. Notice that the key element here is the "comical cartoon animal", which is very different from the example you mention or the greek fables told by Aesop (western BTW) where the context is a more serious one from the beginning. After all there is a reason why people for example dislike Jar-Jar Binks, since his goofiness sticks like a sore tumb in the Star Wars universe. At most the dark elements have to feel like something progressive, like in the movie Little Nemo, not a sudden change of mood like the one of say Sonic Heroes to Shadow the Hedgehog, which was quite radical. Frankly I don't oppose having dark tones in Sonic stories since they canhelp the audience be more engaged with the story, however I think that it has to be done without  overdoing it or like we say here "trying to hard". For example in Sonic Adventure 1 the theme of death and redemption was covered by Gamma in a beautiful way because it also shed a light of hope. Using guns, swearing, wanting to kill are not the best way to provide depth to the franchise.

Also I don't remember saying the games took place on Mobious (which BTW are far from the idea of a colorful fantasy like place with blue skies, if anything it's a generic alternate version of earth that luckily only exists with the Archie comic). What I meant was that Sonic's world (BTW this is AFAIK the sort of official name as per Colors) has somevery unique features, like floating islands or lakes that spawn small planetsevery last month of the year... it's this things that makes sonic's world something unique instead of just another alt. version of earth.

Regarding picking Metal over Amy, this is another problem with the way the franchise is handled: they always pick what is perceived as either popular or "awesome". Frankly I think that picking Metal Sonic was a huge mistake because what  has the character really done to deserve all the praise? I mean his only merits are that he looks like Sonic, he kidnapped a little defenseless girl, slammed his face on a door, betrayed Eggman and turned into a generic god-like monster and after that and as punishment he was turned into a glorified walkie-talkie. Amy in the games Adventure 1 forward achieved so much more than him as a characters (for example just in 06 alone she saved Sonic, saved Elise and saved the world by keeping Silver from killing Sonic, which screwed Mephiles plan and turned the tables by boughting time for the heroes, and she did it while being the character with the least amount of screen time), and not to mention the gameplay elements, an area where her contribution alone eclipses Metal to the point of feeling shame for him, but saddly they went for the "popular" option instead of going for the right one. (even for sprites they can use E-122's, I mean they already used Taxman's physics engine for CD, so why not use another set of fan made resources/coding?)

In regard of Knuckles I don't dislike the character, however I do despise how he gets a free pass only because he appeared in the Genesis games while the girl that does not have any plot device to held her back, and an actual reason to follow Sonic, which is just as valid as Tails's, is ignored because of the people who only see Blue, Yellow and Red. The classic trio never existed until Heroes, where he was slapped for cheap fanservice and a gameplay gimmick but since the majority of fans are blinded by Genesis nostalgia... Yeah.
6 years, 2 months ago
I did? Sorry didn't notice!

I maybe the only one but I wouldn't mind a show about Bugs Bunny like that :p Anyway Sonic is not Bugs Bunny, he does not dress up like a mermaid and charm Eggman into wanting to kiss him, there's a big difference here, Sonic is serious, in Sonic CD he was serious, in Sonic Adventure he was serious, in Sonic 06 he was serious, up until fucking Unleashed he was serious, then shit happened and things went downhill!

That's true, I thought you were one of those who wanna force Mobius on us and claims that Sonic's universe is as colorful and imaginary as Mario when in the original games in the Japanese manuals they always stated him on earth "or semi-earth" where like you said while it's not cartoony still have imaginary elements like springs and item boxes everywhere, still that doesn't mean the levels shall not look realistic enough so long as there are loops and curves, only the special stages shall be colorful the rest can pretty much go either ways!

I never said I don't want Amy to be playable, especially Classic Amy <3 but SEGA make what sells best and we all know Metal Sonic is more popular than Amy Rose, most guys still are shy to admit they like Amy, we all know they do but they can't admit it, while with Metal everyone likes him, I like him, you like him, he's a cool anti-Sonic for God's sake, I even like him more than Shadow, the only issue with Metal is like you said it's a wasted potential, like Gemerl from Sonic Advance 3 the best game that handled Metal Sonic imo is Sonic 4, I liked the battle in Sonic Triple Trouble too, why didn't we have that in Sonic CD instead of the stupid race?

That I agree with, I even talked about this with details in a journal in DA once, Knuckles to me feels out of place, Amy has always had bad luck, she was created before Knuckles but only appeared on consoles that weren't so popular back then, then when SA1 came out and she started to get some attention they slapped her with Tikal, Rouge, Cream who literary took her place in Sonic Advance 2, Blaze, Wave, Shade... etc, sure most of them are not as popular but with Rouge, Cream and Blaze the poor hedgehog has no chance, I would love to see her playable in another 3D game tbh, I think Sonic Adventure had the best gameplay for her in 3D followed by Sonic 06, didn't like her in Heroes much tbh!
6 years, 2 months ago
that sucks that there is never gonna be sonic Adventure 3!!!
6 years, 2 months ago
Well they may still make it sometime but even if they did with the absence of Maekawa we'll probably end up with a Colors/Generations story which imho does not live up to SA3!
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