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If you unwatched ZaiksMcKraven for his straight pride post...

by ragarth

He posted an apology.

I don't have much of a voice so I dunno who I'll reach, but he wasn't aware of the cultural context of straight pride stuff in the USA. I realize that for us Patriot-fellating, bald-eagle suckling USAans the 'straight pride' dogwhistle is known, but for folk in other nations they can sometimes be victims of the hate-parade too.

Remember: Part of the strategy for bigots co-opting other groups is to get their hated minority to seem reactionary and silly to the group the bigots are co-opting. Think Pepe the frog... It was co-opted by the alt-right to make the left look silly when they accidentally mistake non-bigots for the bigots hiding behind Pepe.

Viewed:	21 times
Added:	2 months, 1 week ago 26 Jun 2025 18:03 CEST

15 Comments on this Journal

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ragarth

2 months ago

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He deleted the post this linked to. Dunno why.

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Why was the ADL founded?

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ ShySketch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

The founding was after the trial and conviction of L.Frank. He was pardoned by the governor. A pardon means he still did it, but is pardoned from the death penalty for the crime. The group was founded after LF was lynched upon returning to the town the girl was from.

The ADL is an anti-vigilante group that acts extrajudicially. Not to the extent of a lynching and murder, but officially founded in the defense of a convicted murderer who attempted to frame a black man who was subordinate to him at work, and focusing his defense on the character of the man in context to his African race. There are plenty of New York Times articles from the case when it was happening. Here's one : https://www.nytimes.com/1914/10/04/archives/conley-not-...

I'm sure they pay a lot to appear top of Google search results tho.

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ShySketch

And what does this have to do with my post? What part of my post is negated because you heard a thing about the ADL?

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

The ADL does not own the copyright to the character, but it was their "expertise" which basically ruined Matt's ability to use his own character. Their founding is in extremely racist origins and has nothing to do with officiating the cannon of other people's copyrighted characters (Pepe is copyright).

Why would you use that as the source?

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ShySketch

So are you claiming that a common strategy for bigots is not to ride the coattails of other groups akin to an army inside a trojan horse?

Your issue with ADL has nothing to do with my point.

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

L. Frank attempted to frame his subordinate at work for murder with penalty of death. His legal defense was to slander his character in the context of his race being African, the NY Times articles are disgusting. He has the man write a "confession" and planted it on the body of the girl, seemingly unaware that the man he was attempting to frame was illiterate. The ADL was not formed to defend the black man, but instead, was formed after L. Frank's death penalty was pardoned after petitioning the governor of the state, after he was lynched (hung) upon returning to the town where the girl was from. The girl also worked under him, as did the black man who he attempted to frame for the murder and allow to be sentenced to death in his place.

You seem to have no problem with that, these are the "experts" who you look to for guidance and source citation, right? I don't get it.

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ ShySketch

That has nothing to do with my point. Its just a red herring. If you're wrong it doesn't disprove my point about straight pride being a trojan horse. If you're right it doesn't disprove my point about straight pride being a trojan horse. ADL has a convenient database and the character of the messenger doesn't change the facts presented.

You're hyperfixated to the point that you're not even engaging my OP. Tell you what, because you seem to have such a woody for ADL, let's use a different example to make things easier for you:

Neonazis and skinheads
Transphobes and Sonic
Homophobes and Family Watch International

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

ADL is a "Trojan Horse." Pure irony :P

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ShySketch

Good for you. Quit hyperfixating. Do you want to engage the topic of my OP or just toss around more FUD?

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

You sure are defensive, and bossy

If you're referring to someone's speech, we all have an equal right to speak

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ ShySketch

Eh? I have no idea where free speech comes into this. The topic is a tactic called 'fronting' which is used by extremist groups to simultaneously recruit as well as provide plausible deniability for themselves.

Sorry for the long post, but getting you up to speed on the existing discourse...

Take skinheads. This is an example of successful fronting. I will preface by saying that the skinhead movement was no saint--violence, toxic masculinity, and misogyny were always part of it--but when I mention skinheads the chances are pretty good you think of neonazis. The reason modern culture so strongly associates skinheads with neonazis is because the neonazis successfully used the skinhead culture as a front. By doing so the neonazis were able to recruit amongst the skinheads to radicalize them (In some cases even further, but not all skinheads were violent anti-intellectual thugs. Ska is some pretty good music), and they were able to use their skinhead identity to mask and take the heat off being racist bigots.

Another example is how radicalized Christianity uses Christianity in general as a 'front' essentially making their extremist agenda the army inside the trojan horse. When an uberright Christian talks about Christians, listen to what they are *actually* saying and you realize they're not talking about Christianity in general, but the 'right kind' of Christian.

The straight pride stuff is reminiscent of that. I have no issue with the idea of straight folk having pride in their straightness and if straight pride were just about being another part of diversity I'd celebrate right alongside them, but 'straight pride' is code for a lot more than what those two words together would mean. The conversation you interjected into (This OP was part of an ongoing discussion) was about how american conservatives are using straight pride as a facade for advancing an extremist, anti-trans, anti-gay, religious agenda. I was focusing in other posts on the most recent example of the hetero awesomeness festival and its trying to define straight pride in terms of political and culture war crap such as vaccine denialism (Please don't get started, let's just agree that simple straight pride has nothing to do with vaccines), defining marriage to exclude gays, being the right religion, and a whole litany of anti-trans junk.

Doing this allows extremist bigots to 1) use 'hey, we're just celebrating straightness.' as an entry point for radicalizing others, 2) lets them use straight pride as a cover for dog whistles and for bigotry, and 3) When gay folk mistake honest straight pride folk for the extremists in their ranks, it alienates them and makes them more susceptible to the extremist message.

So the topic isn't "freedom of speech" but rather "deceitful tactics to spread hate."

Frankly, I don't know of a good solution. I don't buy into the 'Every other month is straight pride month' tagline. I see no issue with straight folk having pride in being straight. But I just cannot see a way to celebrate 'straight pride' in a way that isn't either subserviant to gay pride (straight allies) or a front for bigots (how current american conservative Christians abuse straight pride).

ShySketch

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ragarth

"	ragarth wrote:
	Eh? I have no idea where free speech comes into this. The topic is a tactic called 'fronting' which is used by extremist groups to simultaneously recruit as well as provide plausible deniability for themselves.

That is what the ADL is, and why I mentioned it.  You cited the ADL, and they actively celebrate Leo Frank.  The jury in Leo Frank's case was "all white" and Leo Frank's legal defense was to portray Jim Conley as an "n-word" and appealing to the jury's racism.  Leo Frank had Jim Conley (the black janitor who worked under Leo) write the "confession" letter as a work assignment before planting it on the body of the girl.  Jim Conley was illiterate and could not read or write.  The defense did not work, and Leo Frank was found guilty.  The penalty was death.  L. Frank was able to petition the governor to get his death penalty pardoned, but he was lynched (murdered by hanging) upon returning to the town the girl he murdered was from.  Keep in mind, she was his subordinate at work because child labor laws did not exist yet.

You can look at their official twitter and the twitter of the ceo if you have any doubts.  The case was covered by mainstream media at the time it happened, the New York Times has plenty of articles, I linked one above but it might require a subscription.

=

Also, I'm aware that "skinheads" began as some kind of punk rock subculture.  However, the media back then was more influential than the internet is right now.  The media bears much of the responsibility for calling them "skinheads" (causing problems for music fans who were already identified with it) rather than anything else, or making a new name for them.  The original counter-culture of the "skinheads" was that they shaved their heads instead of wearing long hair like dirty hippies like me.

ragarth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ ShySketch

Oh my fucking god. Quit hyperfixating. You have an obsession and you just keep edging to ADL. Go jizz on an ADL banner then come back and actually talk about the topic.

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