Just a reminder to artists and budding artists by TwistedDragon < Journal

1 month ago

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Seconded.

It's a really weird trend, telling people they can't use references.

It's been a learning technique since literal centuries ago.

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ CookieSkoon

I've always had this voice in my head that tells me if I can't just manifest things from the ether of my imagination then I'm just using a crutch and one day it'll all come crashing down or something to that effect. It's a hard voice to silence, but I know it's wrong. I just have to remind myself of that sometimes.

Some form of imposter syndrome I guess.

CookieSkoon

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

Oh I know! I have severe imposter syndrome. It can come from any kind of self esteem issue or insecurity on your personal behalf.

Which I gots in droves. Most artists do~ lol

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ CookieSkoon

Ha, what, nooooo x3 It's funny that our brains can still think other artists are any different, but it be like that. "I'm trying my hardest and I'm not drawing like them, I must be doing something wrong." Nope, you're always learning and practice is the most important thing ya can do. I still idolize artists after all these years, even ones younger than me. Just how the brain works.

CookieSkoon

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

Same.

We also don't see our work the same way outsiders do. Genuinely it looks different to us, because we made it. We know what it looked like the whole time, what we wanted it to be, where the struggles were, etc.

Even other learned artists who can break down your process and offer advice still cannot see your work the way you do.

You know what they say, though. If you think your work is perfect, it's probably garbage and you are in the valley of stupid. lol So it's okay to always feel a bit unsatisfied, that's what keeps us humble and driven to try again.

And depressed.

But that's just part of this ride.

beforethefall

1 month ago

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If references aren't valid then all the old masters were shit. There's a reason it's a core tenet of learning drawing after all. :o)

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ beforethefall

The brain can be a rather dumb thing when it gets into a feedback loop x3 Figured it might help others to break it a lil :3

beforethefall

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

Good that you're being that for folks. Always nice to remind people that their creativity is valid
:o)

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ beforethefall

It's very much needed, utterly confident artist are damned rare x3

CuriousKit

1 month ago

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Edited 1 month ago by Owner

A funny thing is that I often use my own hands for references, trying to work out how it looks if held a certain way and all that. We need references sometimes to remember how things looked or to understand how lighting and shadows fall upon it and the like. I do agree that you shouldn't trace and pass it off as your own. One artist friend did that once and another artist called her out on it, especially after she found the exact picture she used to trace from. It's sad because she is a good artist by all accounts and I loved her style, but she felt she wasn't good enough or something.

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ CuriousKit

Yeah, ya really gotta own up to it if ya do. Most will understand. It's trying to pass off someone else's hard work as your own that really ruffles feathers.

SenGrisane

1 month ago

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Amen to that

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ SenGrisane

Indeed x3

MonsterMeat

1 month ago

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this

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ MonsterMeat

It's hard to get away from the dumb things our brains come up with to torment us xP

MonsterMeat

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

I know I been struggling so bad lately with even coming up with idea's
I got concepts but I can't picture what I want and poses and all that. I really need to break down and use some of the posing programs I got to get something down that can get my brain cooking on these things and stop just expecting the picture to happen as I stare at a canvas lol

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ MonsterMeat

I saw someone on here was using clay to make figures to pose, I thought that was an interesting way of going about it :3

MonsterMeat

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

haha yea that would be

CassytheKitty

1 month ago

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Legendary artist Norman Rockwell used photographic references.

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ CassytheKitty

Given his style it's not very surprising, heh. The man was basically a human camera.

John3031

1 month ago

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I mean I will say I normally do 2 versions when using a ref a traced version and one with free hand but also new so have issues with proportions and angles

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ John3031

Yeah, tracing has its place as a learning tool and to help gain confidence. It's only really dirty when someone tries to pass it off without credit when using someone else's work.

TheDeinonychus

1 month ago

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It's likely the fear-mongering over AI spilling over to everyone else. "You can't use references, that's art theft just like AI!"

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ TheDeinonychus

Nah, this has been a thing long long before AI image generation was a twinkle in some CEO's eye.

TheDeinonychus

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

That's very possible. I just know all the uproar about AI has a lot of people acting up lately.

Fact of the matter is, nothing is 100% original. Whether it's an artist using a pose he likes from another piece of work, or AI learning to draw by mimicking existing art, everything draws on everything else for inspiration and direction. Hell, why do you think art supply store sell those little poseable mannequins? Professional artists use them as reference to get poses right in their artwork. Even they need references a lot of the time.

People just need to chill out and appreciate the art they like, and let people appreciate the art that they like without trying to demonize it.

ChudHumper

1 month ago

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Only amateur artists don't use references; professional artists even use rulers! What matters is the result.

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ ChudHumper

Yup! It's freakin magic when you can actually look at what ya drew and it's what ya wanted, feels good x3

LittleSypher

1 month ago

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1000%
professional artists (e.g. concept artists, background artists, etc who work in games and film and stuff) use refs *constantly*

one thing that a mentor of mine told me, which was a really great exercise, was to trace to learn certain kinds of shapes. Not to use directly in final art, but for understanding how forms work. So often it's possible to draw something that "feels wrong" during the process, but is actually completely correct. When you force yourself to trace or copy another artist's work that feels right, then it helps overcome this barrier. A lot of realizing "Oh, it really does work like that" x3

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ LittleSypher

That is very true, gotta get that muscle memory going so you can be like "Nah, doesn't look right... now it doesn't feel right... Nah... Nah... Nah... THERE." xP Ya might not be able to explain why it's wrong, but ya know it is, ya feel it. Practice practice practice, work out that art muscle even if it's just a lil doodle at the end of the day.

LittleSypher

1 month ago

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yeah *exactly*
the worst problem in my case is overworking things, when sometimes it's just fine, or alternately is *more* correct (correct in the sense of anatomy and such). One of the most important skills in art making is just seeing

But also the reverse is true sometimes, where it looks off and actually is off x3
That's when you need a friend to look at it and give you redlines~

and like you said, you've got to try to practice every day even if just a tiny bit~

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ LittleSypher

Sometimes ya get so focused on what you've been trying to do that ya can't see what you've actually done, I've come to find it's very helpful to have another set of eyes that haven't been laser focused on one or two problem spots, heh. Often it's something further up or down on a limb or another line entirely that you weren't even looking at that's causing all the problems, it can be so frustrating x3

Batroo

1 month ago

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As someone who is learning to draw and going through this, it is one of the harder aspects to get around my head, and it hinders me more than it should as I mentally debate things.

TwistedDragon

1 month ago

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@ Batroo

Yeah, sometimes I just gotta start drawing something I want and realize that's not what I'm making, but suddenly what I am making is turning out great. So I shift gears and just go where the picture takes me instead of fighting it x3

Batroo

1 month ago

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@ TwistedDragon

Oh yeah, I have idea's that I want to do but I believe my skill isn't there to create them and my anxiety stops me from just making it no matter how bad it looks.

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