Oh the irony! by DaddyChee < Journal | Inkbunny, the Furry Art Community

LongTom

7 months ago

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May I say something here? I know Roarey is pugnacious and loves to fight until he gets tired of an opponent. But he is not so much a conservative as a disillusioned leftist, if you looked at what he said in the past. As for Trump, he gave us jobs, peace, and prosperity while the Democrats gave us misery, and while people such as Bernie Sanders (an independent) publicly stated that the Democrats abandoned the working people and that was why they voted Trump, so many Democrats who should have learned their lesson instead say that Trump supporters were stupid ignorant bigoted uneducated people who didn't know better, rather than realizing people were miserable under their watch. The Democrats will be stuck in the sewers until they clean their own house, but they haven't seemed to have gotten the message.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

See that's the thing that gets me. You guys keep saying they gave you peace and prosperity. But if you look at the numbers Biden gave you more prosperity. The problem is is there was Global inflation after a pandemic. President can't control that. It's global. In fact by the end of his presidency or at least by the election, inflation is down to 2.3%. And as I endlessly point out yes stuff is still expensive, but that's not because of inflation. It should have gone down. But instead? It's still high. Why? It's amazingly simple: greedy capitalism. Companies that took advantage of high inflation injector prices above inflation level. Trump left us with debt, 7 trillion of it. And yes Biden made leave us with more. With some projections. But he's not peaceful, he arranged the exit from Afghanistan towards the end, and then dumped it on the next president. That's just kicking the can down the street.

Me, as a gay man? I actually felt some peace and security, because I knew I had someone in the office that wasn't going to try to pass legislation to make me a second class citizen again. Now there is. And don't claim Trump won't do it, because Trump is just part of the deal. All the republicans? They're going to do it. And he's going to sign off on it.
And I agree that the Democrats have need to clean up their act. They forgot about the working class. That's what lost them this time. Biden appeal to the working class because he came from them. Genuinely came from them. But then again a lot of Republicans didn't come from the working class either. They just Pander to them to get votes and don't really do anything for them. But yes, the Democrats need to change their course a little bit. Not with inclusivity, not with the stupid Dei crap you guys team to go all offensive about. They need to start remembering that there's a working class and to help them. It's currently neither party is one just pretends it does.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Either you are very dense or you think I'm very gullible. It was Trump who gave us the prosperity, it was Biden who ruined it. The high inflation continued long after Covid so that excuse doesn't apply. You must live in mommy's basement if you are really unaware that Americans are a lot poorer now than they were before. Saying an economy is healthy with high inflation is like saying somebody is in good health when they are bleeding to death. Oh, and very few major politicians come from the working class, including Biden. Ever heard of the great liberals the Kennedys? I'm a Chicagoland boy, and just because you come from a poor background doesn't make you a hero to the poor. Pretty much everyone in Chicago knows that Oprah Winfrey is a fake who pretends to be charitable for show. Ever since Bill Cosby, I've learned not to believe character references.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

High inflation? Tell me, and it's easy to find then, what is the current inflation rate? And it's still under Biden's presidency? And when did it start going down? Can you answer these questions please?

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

So now you're insulting me. That was quick. Insulting me because I've challenged a few point, and you don't like it. It's in a front to your ideology, it's a front to what you have wrapped up in your personal sense of self. I asked you questions that require hard facts. Not ideology, not opinions, but facts. Because the big problem I see with most people is they want the facts to fit their opinions, they don't want to shape their opinions to fit the facts. Because they have their opinions so tied up in their vision of self.

I am, and was born into, the working class. My family was so poor at one point, we had to deliver newspapers in order to get food on the table. And that wasn't addition to my dad having a full-time job. This was during the '80s, you know the decade of prosperity allegedly. Our fortunes didn't really change until we move state for Dad to get another job. Government job funny enough and a military base. Would she worked all the way up until this year when you were tired, instead of pushing another guy off the list. Because the other guy had a family, and just bought a house. Dad thought he should keep working so he took the retirement.
Now he's comfortable, he's happy. And I admire him.
I grew up in a very conservative household. My mother is still an arch conservative. Dad? More moderate. He's pragmatic. I grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh, bought all of his books and read them repeatedly, reading the Limbaugh letter, watching his short live TV show. I argued in school about how trickle down economics was great, affirmative action doesn't need to exist anymore because racism is a thing of the past. How environmentalism was bunk just to steal our money, I think you get the point. I believed all this. It was part of my identity. I argued with other people about it how they were wrong, and how they just didn't see the truth. How they were deceived. I endlessly insulted the libertarians, enjoyed how they were being talked down about. It gave me a sense of power. A tribal identity of being the good guys.
I believed all this because Limbaugh told me so, so did Gingrich and all the Neo conservatives. All the conservative political commentators that I listened to or read.

But the problem was, I was always a big sci-fi and science fan. So I started reading more science. I started looking into things. And then I started to realize that I was believing things because it was part of my identity. That the facts didn't fit my opinion. Someone like most people, I struggled to make my opinions get closer to the facts. I don't count myself as a Democrat or a liberal. I am a a punk. I challenge idolatry of ideals and mindless tribalism. I challenge the status quo. I go down the often feudal path of trying to get people to actually see each other. Instead of just seeing an enemy. I still have some views that are conservative, but classic conservatism, not this modern neo-conservative bullshit. I am sick of rhetoric, I am sick of hateful commentary on both sides, but as I said before it's way worse from the right. But you guys want to justify it. I'm not letting you. I will point out the hypocrisy, I will point out when you guys want to say something, and the facts don't agree with it.

[Part 1 of 2]

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

I never listened to Limbaugh, and even I am not naive enough to blindly believe anybody. He thought Bill Cosby was innocent, and so do other people (including some people here). But nobody bats 1.000.

Chicago newspaper columnist Mike Royko had a reputation for "always hitting the nail on the head". However, he missed a lot of nails too. He thought Gary Dotson really was a rapist. He fell for the rumors of Reagan abusing his children. Though he turned out to be right about things, too, such as how street gangs really were and that illegal aliens were illegal aliens. Evenliberals can know what everybody else knows.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

What I despise intensely is the uncivil commentary that the internet and modern propganda meeting (Fox,OAN, Newsmax on one side, MSNBC on the other) has sprung. Not so much web 1.0, when it was just news groups, and IRC., and people's individual web pages that you had to seek out and find. No it was web 2.0, when everything became corporatized and monetized, when algorithms started pushing you down rabbit holes, and other such Corruptions. Now everybody said each other's throats, and being behind the veil of the internet, giving him that sense of an anonymity and their id comes out out. Rory is a great example of that. And the insults you just threw at me? A good example of it too. Unlike earlier when I was on his thread, and I let my emotions get ahead of me instead of thinking? I'm not going to do that here. You won't see me insulting you. I'll challenge your ideals, I'll call the ideas stupid but I won't call you stupid. But you may think I am because I'm challenging your ideals I'm not letting you be complacent about them. So you see it as an attack on yourself. But it's not.

So want to try again? Or are you just going to keep insulting me?

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

And it still doesn't play the point I made on this post: Rory blocked me cuz I disagreed with him, after he always talks about freedom of speech. It's like musk on x, saying it's a free speech platform until somebody disagrees with his arguments on woke mind virus, and then they're off the platform.
And as I pointed out before, that's perfectly legal, neither x, nor ink bunny, our government run. They are private websites, with their own terms of service, and rules you must follow in order to stay on them. But but it's not infringing on someone's freedom of speech.

And a comment about Rory being a disillusioned leftist? I see none of that. I was in his telegram chat for a while until I left. When I just see is a very bitter person, who likes to put things in people's faces when they go his way. But I guess that's no different than most people nowadays, especially on the internet. Civility has gone out the window.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

I'm going by his own descriptions. He may be lying but I doubt it. A lot of female sex abuse victims tend to hate men, and maybe the reason Roarey is so bitter is because he really did suffer abuse from leftists. So many of them are as hateful and bigoted as they accuse the other side of being. I've seen that myself long before I ever heard of Roarey. I've heard Hillary Clinton call ordinary people "a basket of deplorables" and Biden calling the American people "garbage". You think we want people like that in power?

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

This isn't a "both sides" argument, sorry. I don't like fat left people, but if I had to pick between them and the literal, visceral hate I have experienced as a gay man from the people backing Trump, including people like Greg Locke, there is, sorry, no contest.

As far as the basket of deplorables comment, again I go to the fact that Trump has insulted his own followers, and they still follow him. He's called them worse than a basket of deplorables, and they still rally behind him. He is hateful to his own followers, and they lap it up. Why? It's like an abusive relationship. With the abused wife keeps coming back to the abuser. And by the way, as someone who is actually been sexually assaulted as a child, I find your comparison in very bad taste and not at all comparable.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

I keep hearing Trump accused of lying yet nobody ever gives examples. You claim Trump insults Americans yet there are no examples. Yet Biden calling the American people "garbage" and Hillary calling them "deplorables" are still not people I want in the Oval Office. And ironically you are using the "both sides" argument which you claim to hate. Why do you think Trump won so easily the last time around? You do know that Kamala Harris tried to play herself off as black but in reality she is as black as Al Jolson?

There were poor people in the 1980's. And in the years before and after that. The news media said that poverty was solved during the Clinton administration, but it wasn't. It was the peace dividend as the result of Reagan winning the Cold War that caused the surplus, not anything that Clinton did. It should be noted he never won the popular vote either. And people can be wealthy during bad economic times. Journalist Rob Novak admitted he did not starve during the Great Depression. (I recommend you read his book "The Prince Of Darkness", if nothing else to learn about a number of politicians, such as the fact that Barry Goldwater was in fact an unmpressive politician.)

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

Show me some place where Biden said the American people are garbage, without taking it out of context. I'm going to go right now and look up where Trump insulted americans, and even insulted his own followers.

LongTom

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ DaddyChee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-E-tThyk1E

You cannot say calling the American people garbage can be taken out of context. Especially when you are the President. And how many Democrats denounced him for that? None, I bet. Secretary of the Interior James Watt in the 1980's made the comment "two women, a black, a Jew, and a cripple" which was much milder and he still had to resign.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Give me a minute on this one, I have to use the work around to actually get to YouTube

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

There's another thought distortion. What did you say? You said he called the American people garbage. He did no such thing. He called Trump supporters garbage. But see there's your cognitive distortion. From my point of view, t
I can say that you I'm only Trump supporters are americans.
So no, he didn't call the American people garbage ( you could say he called some, but the is a singular, which means everybody, and I'm pretty sure that's the way you meant it).

Can you counter that?

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Plenty of people voted for Trump in the next election and he won easily. So much for "some". And when you are POTUS you are supposed to be better than that. Trump is a comparative saint.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Nope. Everyone didn't vote for him, therefore there are people who dissented, and you are claiming that Biden also called them that. You can't have it both ways. Either he called everyone garbage, are he only called Trump supporters garbage. They are not the same thing.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

No President should call any of his constituents garbage. Trump was right, he meant the majority of the American people. So I'm not going to buy your character references either.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Saw the horrible things Trump has called other people that's fine right? I don't accept your character references either. So we seem to be at a character reference impasse.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

If he really said those things it would have been all over the media. And in case you are wondering, I do see several news stations. I only watch TV at my exercise place and the televisions there are essentially set to random stations each time I go there. It was CNN who admitted that Biden was polling badly compared to Trump, which caused many Democrats to say Biden must pull out of the running, and eventually he was forced out. Harris was the last minute replacement, and she proved no prize. You do know that Harris did very badly in the original 2020 primary? Also I saw her ads on YouTube where she admitted she polled at 48% while Trump was at 49%. Would a winning candidate say that in their advertising?

DaddyChee

6 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ LongTom

I mean all the things he called his opponents on the other side? All the stuff that's on tv? That's easily accessible? They're Americans too, or does it not matter if they're opposing politicians?

LongTom

6 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ DaddyChee

There were plenty of insults on both sides. The fact that the actual President of the United States called his own citizens "garbage" says plenty. There is a difference between a political candidate holding no office making insults and the actual President saying so makes all the difference in the world as I pointed out earlier. Yes I know Harris repudiated Biden's saying it, and it would have helped if other Democrats did the same. But what do you expect people to think if one political faction hates you and wants to do you in?

DaddyChee

6 months, 4 weeks ago

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@ LongTom

You're getting into the both sides argument again. This is getting a little circular. You claim things that cannot be falsified, meaning you don't provide any data that I could use to verify them or debunk them. You just make claims. The only thing you ever really gave me was the video with biden. So frankly, I can't take anything you say seriously if you don't provide data. Real, verifiable, neutral data.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

Stephanie Grisham and Olivia Troye(one a former press secretary, the other one of Mike Pence's former aids) both have gone on record that he regularly insulted his followers behind closed doors. These are people who worked with him. I mean, I know it's a bit of a corollary, but notice that most of the people that worked with them in the first term, pushed for people not to support him when he went for reelection? Not one, not a couple, approx. A dozen or so of his top officials. These are the people he picked, that he worked with for 4 years, telling us he did these things.(including calling POW's loosers).

And yes I've already heard the argument if it's all just sour grapes. But that's a rationalizing view, instead of actually taking what they say into account.

(This are two I found with just a few minutes search).

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Or maybe they are lying? Disgruntled former employees are known to lie. One claimed to have recorded evidence of somebody saying "nigger", but an examination of the tape showed that word was "Nicholas". Oh, and one disillusioned former employee of a music studio claimed that the song "Louie, Louie" had obscene lyrics and brought in the FBI to investigate. Even they could find no evidence, and that was when J. Edgar Hoover still ran things. You may have heard about Albert Goldman's book "The Lives Of John Lennon, which made all sorts of cockamamie claims about Lennon and became famous for a period. I showed a newspaper review of the book which listed some of the claims to a Beatles fanatic coworker, and he laughed uproariously. He concluded that Goldman exaggerated a lot of stories about Lennon.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

You did exactly what I said you would do. You dismissed them because it doesn't align with your worldview.

LongTom

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ DaddyChee

Sometimes fake claims are just fake claims. Trump never called US veterans "suckers and losers", nor did he tell people to inject themselves with bleach. Just because you dislike Trump doesn't mean rumors about him are true.

As for Reagan, rumors surfaced that he was abusive to his children. Never mind that I have read autobiographies written by them and they make no claims about being neglected or abused. Sometimes wishful thinking is just wishful thinking.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

Do I really have to look all these up again. Again people reported he said that about veterans. Because you like Trump doesn't mean you should just dismiss it out of hand. I will take that argument with you on this since you do the same thing.. My dislike of trump does not mean I'm going to believe rumors about him, my dislike of trump goes deep because he is rude, uncivil, completely self-centered, isn't the businessman people think he is because after all he bankrupted to casinos, a license to print money, narcissistic, cares only about himself, hasn't done for America but you guys seem to think he's done. And by the way, you never answered my question about inflation. When asked about hard facts, you didn't answer.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Inflation supposedly went down, but that is like saying a fire was put out after the building burned down. The economy is in fact declining because people can no longer pay for things, and there are plenty of business cutting severely back of going under. I go by facts and not your wishful thinking.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Seriously? And show me the job reports under trump. Not your interpretation of them, show the numbers. Because honestly, and interpretation is very skewed. You will bend....*sigh*

Can we just end this conversation? I feel like I'm banging my head against this concrete steel reinforced wall. And I'm sick of the headache.
And this is not an "haha I owned you lib" moment. No it's because I can't have conversation with someone that won't even meet somewhere in the middle, who is so 100% Trump is great and Biden is 100% horrible. Someone who dismisses serious flaws, because it doesn't match their worldview. It's why I despise talking to far left people as well. You were more polite, so I thought maybe we could have an interesting conversation, or we could find something in the middle. It appears I was wrong.

You don't want to have a conversation. You just want to talk at me. And frankly, I'm tired of it.

( waiting for you to accuse me the same im 5...4...3...2...1...)

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Congratulations on not poo flinging like so many liberals do. I didn't say Trump was a deity who could do no wrong. All I say is that he did make the economy better where the Democrats failed. Do you really think Trump would have been elected back so easily if he were so bad? In fact, I admit he won in 2016 because people voted against Hillary Clinton. It was more than her "a basket of deplorables" comment. She said things were fine when we knew better. She had no agenda.

Another thing to know. When unemployment numbers go down, it doesn't mean people have found jobs. It means that unemployment insurance has run out. Also, have any Republican politicians insulted you to your face? Nobody would be that stupid.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

I can't believe I'm doing this *facepalm* I must have a masochistic streak (yeah guess I was secretly enjoying this too much? I don't know.)

Ok here we go. Inflation from 2016 to 20204:
Here's some information about inflation in the United States from 2016 to 2024:
2016: The average inflation rate for 2016 was 1.3%, with a January rate of 1.4%
2021: The inflation rate reached a record high of 7.0% at the end of the year
2022: The inflation rate was 6.5% at the end of the year
2023: The inflation rate was 3.4% at the end of the year
September 2024: The inflation rate was 2.4%

Cold hard facts. No distortion, no my interpretation of it, these are facts. Now here is my interpretation ofit:
I can't help noticing Trump started with 1.3% and ended his presidency with 7%. I I can already hear the argument. There was a pandemic. Yes there was. But look at the inflation rate during his presidency. I will not post it here, I kind of want you to look it up yourself ( I find people have a harder time arguing against my point, when they have to look it up themselves instead of me just telling them). So you don't think I'm massaging data, Just Google inflation rates from 2016 to say 2019. Before the pandemic.

The other thing I noticed, is that every year Biden was in office, the inflation rate went down. Not up, not steady; down. Like Trump at the end of his presidency, not all this can be attributed to biden. He inherited a pandemic.

But I'm sure you can agree, as most economists do, that the first year or two of a presidents term, the economy is largely a leftover from the previous president. But the latter half is all the policies of the president still in office ( or more accurately, what he could get Congress to pass).

So my question is, and only this question, not some tangent: how did Biden/Harris give us High inflation?

( I looked at the job reports, I looked at economy , I looked at trade deficit, I looked at a whole bunch of things when I was looking at this. Looking at the cold hard facts, the actual data, none of it looks particularly good for trump. This is why I don't believe it whenever a supporter says he gave us jobs, he gave us a better economy, things of that nature. Because the numbers don't back it up. It's all a matter of perception, and I will default to what the actual numbers are, not my perception of the numbers, while trying to take into account anomalies that might affect it)

If you want to see all the actual numbers for Trump and Biden, just go to factcheck.org and look at them. Oh I found it in half a dozen other places too, but I'm not going to list them all. I'm just going to list one. The rest is up for you to determine if you want to actually read the data, and accept that things weren't as rosy back then as the supporters claim it was. But that's an aside. This post is strictly on the inflation numbers. We can go to the other things if you want, but if we're going to go into it, I want facts. Like I have given you. Not skewed, not from some political website, a place that has a reputation for neutrality. Which is why I picked that particular site is the one I put down here. That website has a lot of credibility. Fox News, msnbc, that ilk does not. I put them maybe one or two steps above infowars.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

You ever heard of false advertising? Just because they call themselves "factcheckers" doesn't mean they are. There used to be a bacon substitute called "Sizzelean" which turned out to be different meats pressed together and it proved just as fatty as regular bacon. And a lot of products purport to be "natural" and "good for you" when really they are not. I've had consumer education in high school. One thing I heard is that "natural" has no legal meaning. (Perhaps that has changed but who knows?)

And I remember other things. Anyone can make up numbers and rumors, as I pointed out. I go by what I saw for myself, that the high inflation started under Biden and it was not under Trump. Blame the pandemic, but it continued after it was declared over, and I've heard plenty of people who have said they were far worse off under Biden than under Trump. You will have to better than that.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Sorry, that's inferential. As I said I had several sources, but I'm not going to keep copy pasting them for you. Factcheck.org is well known for being neutral. I don't care if you can accept that. Your opinion doesn't matter. The facts matter. And you have yet to provide me facts, just inference, suggestion, and what abouts, or what ifs. Give me the facts. With references you're in my thread on my post, so my freaking rules. If you don't like it? Feel free not to respond. If we're going to debate my thread, it's going to be with facts not polymax, rhetoric, or inferences. Facts only

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

There are plenty of people who are rude and arrogant, but Trump demonstratable did bring us jobs, pace, and prosperity, largely having had to undo Obama's economy damaging executive orders. Just as Bill Cosby's nice guy image turned out to be a mask, like I said, I don't believe reputations anymore. Obama is not a gentleman, he is a bigger pig than Trump despite the media whitewash. I note that when he chastised black men on television for not supporting Harris, black men laughed at him. Even they knew that Obama was not like them; his father was a Kenyan national who abandoned him and his white family had to raise him, and Obama did not come from humble circumstances. In fact he got fewer votes in 2012 than in 2008, and successful Presidents always get more during reelection.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

Oh, you wish to bring up obama? Good let's run his numbers:
-The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.
-Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.2 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
-After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.
-The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before.
-The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.
-Home prices rose 20 percent. But the home ownership rate hit the lowest point in half a century.
-Illegal immigration declined: The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico.
-Wind and solar power increased 369 percent. Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent.
-Production of handguns rose 207 percent, to a record level.
-The murder rate dropped to the lowest on record in 2014, then rose and finished at the same rate as when Obama took office

( I'll be honest, the last one doesn't surprise me at all. They're very little things Administrations do to actually cut crime. Not at a national level. And it doesn't deal with the basic stench of our current Justice system. But I digress)

So there is Obama's numbers. How precisely are these bad?

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

And while we're at it, let's compare it to Trump's numbers:
-The economy lost 2.7 million jobs. The unemployment rate increased by 1.7 percentage points to 6.4%.
-Paychecks grew faster than inflation. Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 8.4% after inflation.
-After-tax corporate profits went up, and the stock market set new records. The S&P 500 index rose 67.8%.
-The international trade deficit Trump promised to reduce went up. The U.S. trade deficit in goods and services in 2020 was the highest since 2008 and increased 36.3% from 2016.
-The number of people lacking health insurance rose by 3 million.
-The federal debt held by the public went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion.
-Home prices rose 27.5%, and the homeownership rate increased 2.1 percentage points to 65.8%.
-Illegal immigration increased. Apprehensions at the Southwest border rose 14.7% last year compared with 2016.
-Coal production declined 26.5%, and coal-mining jobs dropped by 25%. Carbon emissions from energy consumption dropped 11.3%.
-Handgun production rose 12.5% last year compared with 2016, setting a new record.
-The murder rate his last year rose to the highest level since 1997. ( no need for me to caveat this one again)

So aside from paychecks increased higher than Obamas did, what exactly is better about his numbers than his predecessor, which you claim is the situation?

Remember, facts, not rhetoric. But I am interested to hear how based on the verifiable facts that I have given in these last two posts how Trump's economy was better?
Because you claim he brought us jobs, but that's not what the numbers say. You say he brought us growth, which he didn't. You say he brought us wealth. Paychecks did go up faster by almost 2x. So that's one. What about the other two?

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Anyone can come up with fake numbers. Jobs did not go up under Obama, his policies were a failure and when that was the case the Democrats blamed "Republican sabotage". Also Obama's much hyped health care helped some people, but it forced a lot of people who could not afford to have to buy insurance. And medical expenses did not go down as promised.

Obama got fewer votes during his reelection; that says plenty when normally incumbent Presidents get more. If the Republicans had put up a decent candidate they could have won. If things were as wonderful as you imply Obama would have been reelected easily. We working people know what is really going on.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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@ LongTom

I asked you to counter it with facts if you say they're not true. I gave you my source, so give me your source that it didn't go. Or otherwise you would be lying.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

My condolences to you. I did read Michael Reagan's biography, and it happened to him too, when he was in the Scouts. As for Roarey, I don't know anything about him outside what he has posted here. Maybe he was abused, maybe he simply suffered from health damage-he has admitted that. Ever since Bill Cosby I learned to stop believing reputations. His case was more shocking than anyone else's because he was considered such a great moral hero for fifty years. It was Hannibal Burress who finally outed him to the world. But the Hollywood establishment kept it so secret for fifty years that nobody had any idea. Whatever you think of George W. Bush, he certainly would not have given Cosby the Presidential Medal of Freedom if he had had any idea of what Cosby was really like.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

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Edited 7 months ago by Owner

@ LongTom

And yet Crosby was freed. His charges overturned. (Do I have my suspicions he did it?  Yeah.)

Going to get uncomfortable here again: Trump was also accused and was adjudicated a rapist. Yes I'm aware that's a lower standard than convicted by jury, but it's still there.

Do we just call the woman who accused him of it having sour grapes? Disgruntled? Lying? All these things his supporters said about her, because she dared accuse their Great White Hope of anything such as that? The man who talks about grabbing women's pussies because he can because he's rich and famous. These are the morals that we support?
And people will do mental gymnastics than amazing to still support him, my cleaning they believe in family morals, and conservative values, because they have in their mind this man will make things better. No he won't. Likely neither would have Harris, to a lesser degree. Because to me that's what all this is about, degrees, grayscale, balancing back and forth. I don't see grayscale on the far right or the far left. Pretty much to me the way people have reacted on the right, I don't see _any_ gray scale there at all anymore. They're used to be, but now if you don't agree with them you're a RINO.  And no, before you go there, the left does not do lockstep. I mean, we had Democrats that voted against Democrats at times. And they didn't call them horrible people, or betrayers, or traitors. They were upset,  sure,  but that's expected.
Granted, I don't have a lot of love for the Democrats either, as I have some very grave disagreements with them. But if we're going to do a two-party system, I'm going to support the one that's not going to try to make me a second class citizen again. Or people like me; you know, faggots, to use the term just yesterday a guy with a MAGA Trump 47 hat called me when he saw my pride pin on my Hoodie.  Never had anyone pro-democrat call me that. Ever.

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Trump lost a lawsuit; that doesn't make him a rapist. Gary Dotson was a man convicted on a rape that never occurred, and when his supposed victim recanted it took a lot of rigmarole to prove his innocence. Cosby was freed on a technicality, because he lost a civil lawsuit so he couldn't be legally convicted in a criminal trial. Still, he is forced to pay out money to a bunch of people. If Trump were a rapist he would endure the same. And he hasn't. I remember how Bill Clinton was called a rapist and the liberals immediately circled the wagons around him, calling Juanita Brodderick a liar.

Incidentally, you ever heard of longtime senator Robert Byrd? A real member of the Ku Klux Klan. Yet when he died, he was called a brilliant hero and that fact was glossed over. As might be expected, I'm not imprssed by Democrat virtue signalling.

DaddyChee

7 months ago

lockedlink

@ LongTom

I've heard of him. I've also heard of people changing their opinion after time, or realizing they may be wrong and changing that. Ever thought that the senator may have been that?

LongTom

7 months ago

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@ DaddyChee

Sure, any politician can claim anything. But I've heard enough about him to get the idea he never really changed his attitudes; but the news media kept quiet about that when he died. He kept getting reelected because he was so good at getting money for his state of West Virginia, not because he was such a moral man. Like I said, I stopped believing character references. Bill Cosby was not the only man who caused this.

Anthurium

6 months, 4 weeks ago

link

It's a shame the comments caused so much derailment from the topic of the journal.

DaddyChee

6 months, 4 weeks ago

link

Edited 6 months, 4 weeks ago by Owner

@ Anthurium

Well at least with long tom, it became more of a back and forth conversation we probably should have taken to instant messages. As for shy sketch? All he was ever doing was trolling. I should have caught that before LOL

I am just tempted to delete all the comments that don't pertain to the actual journal subject.

LongTom

6 months, 4 weeks ago

link

Going back to Roarey himself, he admitted he was a disillusioned leftist in multiple past journals here and elsewhere. He is not a religious man, though arguably you don't have to be religious to hate leftists, or at least particular Ones. Usually, people tend to be mixed in political views, so I expect that or Roarey-or anyone else. He even admitted mental problems, but I think it affects his emotions rather than his logic.

DaddyChee

6 months, 1 week ago

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Edited 6 months, 1 week ago by Owner

Never noticed this comment.

Emotions is part ofany of this. Humans are not Vulcans. We dont value logic above all else. Humans, as we see, aren't rational actors. We THINK we are, but the reality is we think with our emotions most of the time. It saves energy(and our brain is the most energy intensive part of our body) quicker than thinking things out (a survival trait in out past), and it works well in certain situations (self defence as an example). We pass it off as we are using logic, but we are just deceiving ourselves.

I mean, thinking and using rational skepticism is HARD. And I do not mean that sarcastically. It can literally cause emotional and mental pain to try to think without letting emotions be the dominant thought process, and to try to think outside one's comfort zone andestablished sense of identity.
. I sure the bloody hell don't do it all the all the time. I'm willing to admit that because I know it's true. Hell, on Roary's thread it happened to me.
So when you say it effects his emotions rather than his logic, I can believe you. But that means it affects the vast majority of his thinking. And frankly, I can see it.

The worst part? Humans are a social species. The more we gather, the less we think. Mob mentality. That's why large mobs will do stupid shit: they quit thinking with thier logic centers, and start thinking with emotions. And those emotions ramp up the more people we are in a group with.

The internet hits this particular issue, because we get the group mentality on here. Our tribal identity is perceived as being assaulted, so we get angry and Lash out. How dare someone disagree with our identity! They're attacking me!

Only they're not. At least not if they're doing it on an individual level usually.

So yes, I could believe you when you say Rory may have emotional issues. But it also affects his logic. Because emotions are not logical, and it's what we think with most of the time. It is an outsized issue. So since it's affecting the vast majority of his thinking, it's a problem.

When we think with our emotions, instead of using rational thinking, we become the problem.

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Inkbunny

Oh the irony!

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