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Stance on AI Generations.

I figure I'll throw my two cents on this since I see it cropping about more and more on different sites.

AI generated artwork is a tool. Like any tool, it's mileage varies depending on how it's used, and the ways in which it's implemented.

I'm perfectly fine with artists using AI tools to help them with their artwork, or to get rough idea/base image to work off of if it makes your time easier. Much like with reference images, or 3D models for reference, it's all about implementation, and what you're able to do with it *for personal use*.

I start to have a problem with people, or 'AIBros" as people refer to them, when you use only the AI generated stuff as "I made this :)" and try to bank off of it.

That's all.

Viewed:	179 times
Added:	1 year, 2 months ago 01 Dec 2023 16:50 CET

20 Comments on this Journal

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ShioriShi

1 year, 2 months ago

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I think AI is still quite far from a point where it will replace artists entierly. For as good as AI can be its still lacking "soul" for the lack of better term. A human is able to add a amount of "chaos" and randomness to creation that a AI can't do as it is.

Also we can probably compare it to the rise of 3D-printers, which where said to entierly kill of the figure markets as everyone could just 3D print things. That has not happend at all as said printers are still quite the hassle to deal with. But I think AI will see a quicker adoption and probably regulation as well, as I imagine big companies like Disney and similar will get REALLY afraid of the possibility of people being able to make their own movies with AI.

VellvetFoxie

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ ShioriShi

The AI tech not quite being there yet unfortunately has not stopped a megacorp with silos of spending money like Disney from using it though. From Secret Invasion's intro (Disney Plus TV Series) and several instances of AI Voice dubbing, they're definitely the ones everyone expected to try phasing 'work' out of 'work.

ShioriShi

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ VellvetFoxie

Of course they megacorps will abuse it cause they be greedy arses as usual. But they will also as said likely be the first to cry about it being abused when some 14 year old makes a fan made Star Wars movie that is better then anything Disney has put out.

TailsyFox

1 year, 2 months ago

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It's also useful for making a base for an oc if you want to commission an artist later that way you dont need to go to heavily into detail, it makes things simpler for both the artist and the commissioner.

Jackofak

1 year, 2 months ago

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Good stance, actually.

DarkBlue666

1 year, 2 months ago

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Can't disagree with your take.

worldf0x

1 year, 2 months ago

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I would happily support your stance if the databasses weren't comprised entirely of stolen work. The companies that made these went with a, "better to ask forgiveness than permission" ethos and just took everything they could get their hands on, going so far as to hack sites that wouldn't let them do it easily.

Either the bros need to compensate everyone they stole from, and credit every single artist that contributed to every single image (or block of text or whatever).
Or
They need to delete their databases and start over from entirely volunteered or paid-for work.

Until then, it's plagiarizing on a massive scale, and the artists using it as a tool are unwittingly contributing to that sin.
There *is* a way to use them ethically. Just not these ones. Not yet anyway.

VellvetFoxie

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ worldf0x

I agree. Of course I'm against plagiarism and outright theft of non-consenting artists pieces to be put in the blender for AI amalgamate 'artwork'. Obviously this is where the big contention lies, and while I still hold my stance that AI generations are good for getting a vague idea of a concept down, there is that big caveat of potential theft you're always dealing with when using them.

Given I specialize in Mobians(Sonic Characters) I am very aware that Mobians.ai has had it's own share of hot water lately with artists noticing traits of their work in some art generations, so it even affects my own space outside of the general 'furry' stuff.

worldf0x

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ VellvetFoxie

I imagine your response being said with the bored/tired tone your pfp implies, with occasional pauses for sips of tea.

But yeah. I *want* to be excited for AI. I *want* this to be a cool wave-of-the-future new leap in technology. I *do* think it could be an incredible tool for artists. But I just can't be excited for it yet, because some wads decided to steal everything they could and base their tech off that.

And that's all ignoring the way the tech will almost certainly be used, which is by big corps replacing humans to shovel out mid-tier bullshit "content" at an alarming rate. But that's another topic for another time.

Basque

1 year, 2 months ago

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That's a very mature perspective to have! I hope AI tools will help talented artists be more productive in the same way technologies like Tweening and such helped animators. Have you used AI for your own work at all? Since you draw great Mobian characters and seem to have a real talent for things like hyperness too it'd be great to see more like that from you!

VellvetFoxie

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ Basque

I've used it a few times to get a very rough base for 'throwaway' or one time use characters for 'quick fling' scenarios and practice. Not stuff I've posted publicly, save for one instance.

Basque

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ VellvetFoxie

Thanks for the response! And that's neat to hear. It sounds like you're talking about txt2img generation, right? There's img2img generation too if you wanted to use it for things like lining, coloring or adding a background or stuff like that. That's where I think AI generation can be part of an artist's workflow since it can save time and effort, plus give backgrounds and color and such to scenes that otherwise wouldn't have them.

NenanaUso

1 year, 2 months ago

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I can see using computer-generate images (I don't like the term A.I., because it's misleading) as a good tool, but only under two conditions.

1) The image generator, if it uses non-opted-in artwork is totally free, with a Terms of Use that states that generated images are not to be sold and for private use only. I'm pretty sure that this makes it fair-use as long as no one is making a profit off of it (I don't know for sure, though). The images should also have a watermark or program signature to let people know that it was made by a program.

2) You pay for the image generator (likely a subscription), but the entire database is donated or paid-for artwork. It would still have the same Terms of Use and watermark/signature as above. Paying for it would support the programmer and allow for more art commissions and rights to expand the database. It would develop slower, but without any questions of legality or piracy. Maybe donating artists could gain "points" to reduce or eliminate the subscription cost.

fibs

1 year, 2 months ago

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Edited 1 year, 2 months ago by Owner

@ NenanaUso

There is no magic on/off switch that makes use fair or not.

The four criteria considered for fair use are:

1. the nature of the use (e.g. criticism, parody)
2. the nature of the original work (e.g. a more factual text has weaker protection against infringement than a more fanciful one)
3. how much of the original work is used
4. "Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work"

Whether you make a profit or not goes under factor 1. You can make a profit and still be found fair. You can make no profit and still be found unfair. It isn't particularly important above and beyond the other factors, and there's no "points" that add up from meeting any of them. Fair use isn't a meaningful concept until you go to court and other people judge your use fair or unfair on a case-by-case basis.

NenanaUso

1 year, 2 months ago

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@ fibs

Thank you for sharing ^^
Always good to learn more about this stuff.

TheDingy

1 year, 2 months ago

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Yeah, there's a big difference between someone in private running the image generators to give them ideas or inspirations to then turn into something of their own creation, verses someone downloading all the results and then re-uploading them to spam up art sites.

fibs

1 year, 2 months ago

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AI doesn't produce art, or stories, or answers. It produces pseudo-random noise that coincidentally resembles art, or stories, or answers (or doesn't, as it may be)

The only reason AI is a threat is because we were already drawing like AIs, writing like AIs, etc. before it ever showed up. Of course an uncreative AI can replace uninspired artists, shitty game journalists, formulaic movie mills, and anyone else who was never creative to begin with

AxleFurret

1 year, 2 months ago

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I actually remember when a lot of furry artists were losing their shit over photoshop and "digital art tools/programs" screaming the same old "THEY AREN'T REAL ARTISTS!!!" and "IT HAS NO SOUL!!" back in the late 1990s.

Now almost all those same artists can't survive without their digital tablets and art programs lol.

Same crap now.

Trying to fight it is like screaming into the wind, it ultimately won't stop anything and will be a waste of time and energy.

The cat's out of the bag and lit the bag on fire when he left.

The genie has gained weight and won't be going back into the bottle.

It's a useful tool. And yeah people will abuse it just like they have with everything else. For those that don't like it, no one is forcing them to use it. As for "professionals" well, if they are professional, then they need to keep up with progress. If some snot-nosed kid can produce better bland boring politically correct corporate "art" in a fraction of the time and half the price as a "graphic designer" then the graphic designer needs to compete or change jobs.

Ultimately I think that is where the "I'm scared" part comes from. They have done it the hard way for a long time and don't like the idea of someone coming in and replacing them with the help of a program of some sort because they don't want to compete with that.

GreenPika

1 year, 2 months ago

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My issue is that tool requires sampling human art without consent. I found a rather interesting video on the topic some time ago: https://youtu.be/-MUEXGaxFDA?si=XRiwgDcTHyQ1DVyT

Jewelwriter

1 year, 2 months ago

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I'll say this is what I keep telling a friend of mine. It will never be as good as a real artist doing things, but it can help provide a base.

Then again, anyone who says they are an artist by AI is likely the same kind of people who use certain assets without editing and make games or movies with them without even editing or building something from it themselves.

IF you are from steam market place, YOU know who you are.

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