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SALTORII

Futa... Trans...

I've talked about this on my Twitter a few times, but I felt it necessary to make an announcement.

I will no longer be tagging or referring to my art as "Futa/Futanari" or similar, arts like that will be labelled as "trans".

Last time I made a journal that had anything to do with my identity, I got harshly transphobic comments, and that is part of this decision. I won't be locking comments, if you wish to immortalize your bigotry in response to this, go ahead, it's your funeral.
You may call me whatever dehumanizing names you want, I know what I am, I know my body, I know I'm human and a man. No matter what you say, it will not change that. You don't have that power over me. Never have, never will.



Why?
For me my art has always been in concept and in anatomy, trans, however I found "futa" easier for search function, and in some ways, cowardice to avoid the hypocritical bigotry that comes from some.
My decision comes from previous events and recent events in fandom. In practicality, if a futanari drawing were to be translated into real-life, the character would be a trans person.
There are people who are happy to consume the appearance of trans bodies sexually but expose hatred to the real life people who would represent that body type, to the extent of hate crimes, to the extend of denial of our humanity, dignity, and rights. There are people who think that it being fictional gives them free reign to believe it's different, "this is a woman with a penis, not an icky trans woman".
I am removing that dissonance, if you consume the representations of trans people's bodies, you do not get to keep that dissonance if it's the only way you can stomach our existence. You do not get to sexually gratify yourself with my art while being bigoted towards me.
As an artist, I study anatomy, I use references, even if it's cartoony, I do, and the references are trans, the art has always been trans. "Futanari" has always had a radical expression of gender, sexual, yes, but there has always been a deeper commentary on gender in futanari pornography (particularly that of the originating hentai content with semblance of plot). It's ridiculous to pretend there was never a trans or non-binary tone to it, however if you are cis, you may not have noticed. I did, I know many who have, and it's just completely unrealistic to think there is no similarity to trans women's bodies.

Some of you may be lite on this, you may say reading this "I don't like it being called trans! but I'm not like that, I'm not a transphobe!", and maybe you're not the worst of the worst transphobe, but I ask you to think to yourself, why does the label of this pornography change your perception of the exact same imagery?



At this point in my life, with all the overt transphobic violence I've faced IRL, with all the constant comings out of transphobes who use our bodies or draw our bodies while freely supporting the removal of our rights, I cannot abide pretending this doesn't exist and that people like this exist within my own audience.
I cannot imagine the audacity, to consume my art while wishing myself and people like me dead.
I cannot justify sexualizing my trans sisters without making some stance on this, even if it is a small act, this is where my power lies, and I would be equally hypocritical to allow this chaser dissonance around my content to go unaddressed. Even if this is a small act of solidarity, if it receives the same backlash I received before, then it is not a small act, and it says a lot of how hateful the rise in bigotry has become that a simple labelling change should offend.




To the nuisance... to my fellow trans persons...
I understand there is a case of dysphoria that causes the need of dissonance between the reality of our bodies and the fictive representations of us. I am aware there are trans people who disagree on labelling, but I cannot stand the dissonance existing for transphobic cis fetishizes. There was a time I agreed with that mindset, but I had a lot of internalized transphobia and my dysphoria was worse, sometimes it's dysphoria, sometimes it's internalised transphobia towards the reclamation of our own bodies, sometimes it is both. It's up to you to discover what it is and it's up to you to know what's best for you.
I am open to discussions with trans peoples on what labelling would be preferred for comfort as I wouldn't want to ostracise you from my audience, however I would like to ostracise transphobes from my audience.




...Peace
Viewed: 248 times
Added: 1 year ago
 
Zeromegas
1 year ago
Understable. If you character is Trans, is Trans. Nobody is going to change it. I respect that.
SALTORII
1 year ago
there's no like button, but I appreciate it.
DarkBlue666
1 year ago
A'ight, you do you. I never really cared much for "futa" anyway. I suppose it has deeper meaning than the colloquial "chicks with dicks"-thing, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not trans, I don't care if you're trans, so if you wanna move away from a term you believe encourages transphobia, then by all means go ahead.
SALTORII
1 year ago
yeah, it's all to each their own, far be it from me to say anyone should be into any specific body type. But you get it.
SissyLeo
1 year ago
Certainly fair. I would think Futa would strictly refer to women who have both male and female genitals, but I can see how futa became a blanket term. I have no issue with your choice and support you on it.
SALTORII
1 year ago
ive heard that argument but since 2010s it became either way of depicting it, there used to be a real split about it, and the split was ofc, emboldened by a lot of transphobic takes so i remember it clearly.

personally fine with ppl who draw ppl(normally women lbh) with both, it just annoys me anatomically when they include balls and clit; realistically if someone were to have a dick and a vag, (even if born with both, ie, intersex), it would be the being a dick, as they're the same part genetically. that's why all foetuses start off as "female" (hence males have breast tissue too), and the hormone washes in the womb determine whether the clit grows into a dick, the labia majora becomes the balls, or remains as a vagina, it's also why there's such variety in vulva types. That's the only reason why the "futa" I've drawn has never been that kind, im perfectly in favour of the futa trope of "cis girl through science/magic suddenly grows a dick and she loves it" (I mean, I am trans), but you'll notice in most of those cases they grow from the clit, hentai artists really do do the research sometimes LOL

It's also probably why the Whiptail lizards is an entirely female species, cus most animals (humans certainly) start out as female in super early development. It's also why most of the known species that are mono sexual are female, and a foundation of how HRT works.

and even then, afaik intersex folks don't have both but normally its internal, and if they were born with both, sadly doctors will preform surgery on the baby and decide which they are based on eyeballing it, which most intersex people and their parents are not informed about, hence the term "assigned [gender] at birth". imo its horrendous the person cannot decide for themselves, I've personally known trans intersex people who are very unhappy about the doctor's arbitrary choice.
but I know of trans people who do have both, but usually those are trans men or afab non binary, while most "futa" art is femme. (see earlier reason, even with bottom surgical options its possible for trans men, but afaik it's not with trans women).

all that to say, even considering intersex conditions, the real life version of that (though not exact, cartoons aren't known for being exact), would also be trans, but more than likely would be trans masc/non binary. (more likely trans men, because non-binary folks in a lot of countries are/were until recently barred from the same transitionary care that would result in this).

(this is more of an autistic "i know this subject" moment than saying anyone gotta draw it a certain way, far far be it from me to say how anyone even fictional bodies should be)
Zeromegas
1 year ago
That called Hemaphridite Girl
SALTORII
1 year ago
All of these terms have similar history. Futa was initially seen as this and then the term combined with more derogatory terms for trans porn when it came to English speaking world through the internet. Futanari is literally the Japanese word for hermaphrodite* ("to be of two kinds").
(*which is an antiquated term for intersex, and depending on the culture is similar to a few non binary identities, eg two-spirit, Hijra).

After these terms merged the distinction between herm, futa, and trans was blurred in both English and in Japanese pornographic art, so what each "means" in terms of art is not strict, it's preference.
Zeromegas
1 year ago
Now Futa is more consudered the gals that got their penis in a artificial way, still have their pussy (normally hid behind the balls) and the term (or slur) of trans is "Newkama" (I think means "New Gender"... I think...🤔).
SALTORII
1 year ago
this is all semantics and it doesn't matter, cus like I've said, everyone disagrees with it. Like you contradicted yourself, cus what you describe futa as would also be herm, and herm is also a word thats been used as a slur.
these things are all under the umbrella, because theyre all gender diverse. and... um, ! think you mean Okama, which is a real word, Newkama is a One Piece character. a great character, but a character. Okama is both a slur, a drag performance(which is how it's used in one piece), and a reclaimed slur in Japan. It doesn't have a direct translation because it is slang.
 
A common term (there's many terms in every country) in Japan for trans people, is... transgender (toransujenda). Like the word for milk in japan is milk (miruku), there is also new-half (nyuhafu), which is also an English word they use, like hafu (mixed race).

this is all semantics, the point is that the distinction in cartoon porn is... really in the eye of the beholder. Everyone disagrees.
But my knowledge on Japanese lingo on this does come from being trans and having lived in Japan.
Zeromegas
1 year ago
The Japanese words contradict a lot. It keeps evolve as every language as one word had a different meaning 10 years ago and it will have new meaning in a future. But I like the info you are give me to see new perspectives. "Toransujenda" is the 1st time that read it and I like it, has more respect that "Newkama". "Tora" was more power in the word/kanji.
CrystalMendrilia
1 year ago
I'll stick with Gaijin. ^_~  :P
SALTORII
1 year ago
Yeah, subcultures of cultures less known outside of the country will always be hard to define.
But again, I must insist, you mean "okama" not "newkama", Newkama is a One Piece character who is a "okama" in the series, and their name is a pun invented by Oda, (a double entendre of new-okama, and new-kind), it's not a word used in Japan except in the context of One Piece where it refers to the character lol
Viro
1 year ago
Fine with your decision.

Personally, I think the two have different context attached that lets the tagging make sense, but if that's how you feel then go for it. Assuming it comes up in a story, the only possible issue I could see is just you explaining to future viewers why the terms are being used in the way that you are using them in.
SALTORII
1 year ago
part of this journal is to clear that up. "futa" certainly is more mainstream and allows easier finding, but I weighed that that's less important to me now days. its also that i want to draw more trans masc art, even if its less popular and i always get one shitty comment from the same person its wild, but there isn't a comparative term other than a semi-reclaimed slur, one that people who I know to be transphobic irl have used as an artistic tag, which is additionally part of this decision. I mean, it could be fun, but rarely does porn need that much context.
I don't think it needs to be explained, as in give a backstory of "this is when i transitioned, etc", with many people, characters had parts of their lives we dont know about before canon/meeting and who we are when we're met is who we are at this moment.
Viro
1 year ago
Was mostly referring to if the character's backstories for the artwork was relevant to really require the terms used. Aside from being anatomically correct, it'd likely be unnecessary unless tagging them was needed due to the characters' backstory as you'd get dialog to aid them or that you see them naked to help clarify in some situations. Though I agree it's better to at least tag them if that's what they are and if something builds off that in the future then they are already appropriately tagged.

To me, Trans and Futa are two different things as Trans is more direct of addressing/shifting of genders/identity while Futa is a state of already having the features by default. It's mainly the personalizes that help define them more such as Futa ranging from shy to burly. Course I could be incorrect as I don't normally think on either as I'm mostly invested in story and whatever art caught my attention. Then there's hermaphrodites that's its own thing as well. Most of this is addressing physical traits/changes while mental can vary for each character, but the physical is mainly what people will look for in art before diving deeper. That's why I view to two differently as one doesn't change normally (unless some storyline causes the change and then you have a different scenario going on).

Ultimately, long as there's not much confusion and that people aren't finding the tagged art incorrectly based on individual definitions, then go for it. Obviously this is different if real-life is taken into account, but in fantasy/art where we can just have characters have whatever features from the start is where the terms have different context.
SALTORII
1 year ago
when i would draw them cis one day and "futa"(trans) the next context was never asked or required. I don't think it is required when is just porn based on the preference for the image. I dont see why when or how someone's body became a certain way matters, it doesn't to me in the context of what I draw. There are so many vast experiences that it can encompass much of what "default" would imply, but it's also never been required of any other type of art. No one is required to explain how knuckles got fat when they draw him chubby for chubby fetish art as an example. for some that is the point, but it aint always and the same goes for this. I get that's what you're into, and I get the preference for story, but I've never given context to any of the body types I draw, rarely even in scenes. No one asked for context of why rouge or vanilia had penises, even if i have a backstory in mind for me, I've always been the kind of artist who opens the scene on where its interesting and not the lead up, many of the works I have with somewhat "story" have a lead up in my head, but it wasn't necesary and it lets people come up with their own story. I think for some people it is important, but others like to imagine their own "how we got to this situation". Like I said, the characters I draw have always been trans, I just saw Futa as a more common term in these works and other reasons that I dont abide by anymore, so I never had to explain why the character was trans in a situation. I'm just of the mind that it should be treated as innocuous as any other pornography. Like, I don't like NC but im ok with CNC, but I don't draw (or share) the lead up where the characters go "ok were gonna do a rape scene, this is the role play, my safe word is pineapple, call me a bitch", i think that's a mood killer for some and its unnecessary additional work on my end. I do get the point you're making, it's just never been how my art has operated.
Viro
1 year ago
Yeah. I'm mostly seeing that if the terms/tags were necessary then there'd be some sort of story attached like written in the description or shown as a comic to make them relevant to even mention outside of visually seeing the figure.

Other than that, it'd be hard to show the difference between a character who shifted identities and a character who just had the way that they are from the start if it's a single pic. Of course there could be follow-up artwork to continue things as well. And true, not every pic needs context but it does help clarify why they are labeled as such.

The Knuckles being fat is hard to use as an example as you're still visually seeing that's the case. Futa is really obvious of "female form with a dick". It's basic and to the point (sometimes it's hidden and used as a surprise/plot twist, but usually you know immediately if it's done in an obvious way like a pronounce bulge). I guess my main point is that it can be difficult to portray Trans without context and the technicalities/specifics of the transition. Things like Transformation also has its own specifics that don't immediately count as a specific tag/label without context or at least pre-established lore of a character (like knowing Knuckles is male before something changes that). It could be possible for people to see characters as Rule 63 for example without knowing if that's the case.

Anyway, yeah I get where your coming at. I'm mostly thinking of it as "How do you combine the two when there are differences between them?" so I'm just focused on seeing that Trans is a bit more difficult to portray without context compared to Futa that already has an established tone that doesn't need immediate explaining (similar to the Fat example).

Honestly, I don't think you'll have much issues with the tags unless something specific comes up. It may cause some confusion if the artwork doesn't accommodate, but that's up in the air. I'm over thinking >w<

Either way, more power to ya.
SALTORII
1 year ago
I don't get how you think it's a different example? If I draw Rouge with a dick, then how is it not clear she is a trans woman? The differences aren't really visual, not with my art, I mean I've been drawing them as trans this entire time but used the label of futa for better search functioning, so I don't get why there's a need for a bigger explanation now. Visually they are the same.
You're welcome to your perspective, but I just don't get the difference here with my art. It's like when I post variation art, each image is within it's own universe, one has a pussy, one has a dick, the only way that could be the same character is either if it's got magic, an alternative dimension, or they're different times of transition.
Viro
1 year ago
Well for the Rouge example, if she just has a dick there's nothing to indicate whether or not she started with it, suddenly gained it, gradually gained it, was male then got tits, etc. There's a ton of possibilities thus why the tags would be important if it's supposed to be something specific. That's pretty much it really which was why I was wondering how you'd combine the terms when they have different meanings.

Variations I'd say wouldn't need much/any explanations since the idea behind those is to show different states/forms of the same character/picture (whether they have clothes, tattoos, different bits, long hair, short hair, etc.) At that point they'd be seen as a joint set of pics and not one solo pic.

Like I said, do what works for you, I'm not trying to change your mind or anything like that. I was mainly curious of the process of combining the terms without people getting confused when they use them to look for different things as they have different meanings. All it'd do is drum-up the question of why the term(s) is used for that specific pic, like if I had a pic of a male but tagged as female without anything else to state why. Does it really need an answer? Probably not, but it'd help in the future if enough people asked. Again, I'm thinking long-term so I'm likely over-thinking when it comes to isolated pics.
SALTORII
1 year ago
shrug. u do u lol. I don't think we'll agree on it, it just takes a lot less suspension of disbelief for me to see that body and go "oh a trans woman!" than "oh a cis girl born with a dick/who grew a dick!" as one's a real thing and the other's visually the same as the other but doesn't exist in reality. People have used futanari interchangeably with outdated porn terms for trans women (sh*male, dickgirl) for decades now, so I don't really get the semantics as being so important here. especially when, again, the art I've drawn has always been trans. Water's maybe the only exception but even then her entire concept was a pun on Gender Fluid and having powers to control her own body how she wanted.
If you ask me, from my experience with the topic and seeing it expressed by anons before, I think the distinction is moot, as often the only reason people get bent out of shape over the distinction has been because of ppl who like trans women's bodies sexually but don't like the reality of trans women existing or affirming their gender outside of the momentary bliss of jerking it to them. Not saying that's you, but I've seen it way too often and it contributes to my decision.
Viro
1 year ago
Okay, no worries. Like I said, just wanted to pick your brain for a bit :3
SALTORII
1 year ago
No worries, I get this is more of a preference thing and not a deal breaker, I make it clear when it is (cough elsewhere). These things are interesting to discuss, but sometimes views are mostly harmless, but none the less conflicting opinions.
SexMajin
1 year ago
Sucks this hasn't been fully integrated into society yet, or even the little pockets we make for ourselves, but we'll get there. This is how it starts, right? One step at a time.
SALTORII
1 year ago
language and acceptability is growing, but I do think making it clear that there are real people like these cartoons (and behind these cartoons) that are just like these representations.
Amaterasu
1 year ago
I think your decision to tag/ refer to your drawings as Trans is valid. When I tag for a character I conselider whether they are Trans or intersex and tag accordingly.

However I'm unsure of the ramifications this type of move has on a broader scope. If you simply replace futanari with intersex for the applicable characters then it won't matter much. But calling all futanari characters Trans also isn't quite correct as it just erases another marginalized group. Ontop of the whole needing to follow an anatomical model to be something.  That's a dangerous slope.
Firstly,  nothing really has to "be correct" in art. If that's the standard you hold yourself to then it's w/e but it's not fair to just hold every art you see online to your standard of anatomy. That's the same logic you hear from transphobes themselves to justify their bigotry.  "If it has a penis it's a man"

Tldr your choice is yours to make and I think most people would agree that if it makes you feel better to do it you should, I just hope in the attempt to avert any vitriol or bigotry you don't fall into the same box of gatekeeping what a person is or can be based on your ideas around anatomy.
SALTORII
1 year ago
I agree on principle with a lot of what you've said, I wouldn't want to erase intersex people (although without these changes, I would also be doing that in a sense), most of the intersex people I know IRL I met through the trans community so I've always considered this gender diversity to be under the trans umbrella (which I prefer to call the gender diverse umbrella for that).
From what I know, "true hermaphroditism" (ovotesticular syndrome) is rare, but visually doesn't represent like this, it's usually internal, but there are a wide range of trans bodies that do. If I were to draw a fusion of the two, I suppose I would have to decide then whether it's a trans or intersex person, but I'm not so sure how that would work, I feel more confident in the conflicting views within trans spaces on the topic of sexualization and fetishization, as I am a part of that community and am in community with people who are the representations of these bodies and listened, while most of the Intersex people I've met (far less than trans) have either preferred to identity as trans or disliked the idea of being sexually represented like this, so I couldn't begin to consider "speaking" for them by making a point towards it.

I wouldn't want to put anyone in a box, however I also know that terms for gender diverse body types being used as only pornographic has been shown historically to help stigmatise those effected. Pornographic use of slurs (eg: sh*male, cuntboy, dickgirl, tr*nny, most recently trap) being overtly used in porn has emboldened reuse of slurs to harm and dehumanize with people being unable to recognise that the sh*male they watch porn of is also a trans woman with humanity. These things are complicated, but the most recent example of traps is both a complicated one, and a term that is deeply harmful. I understand the use, but it's gone from "just referring to anime characters" to being actively used as a slur, and as the term references the legally acceptable murder of trans women, it can be very hurtful, and internalizes in some the view that that trope is true. If it was just referring to anime characters, I wouldn't consider it a slur like many trans women also do. Futa has not been used as derogatorily as these other words, but it also has been.
While trans can be used as an insult, it is a word we chose for ourselves and wasn't put on us by fetishizers or abusers, hence even transphobes don't like using the correct terminology. It's all incredibly complicated, that's why this is a decision for myself and my own works and not a dictation that anyone else should do it this way, as, again, I know my own community and my own stance, but it is not true to all of us, and it would be wrong imo to tell other trans people how to represent ourselves pornographically. I will only be held accountable on these topics by the communities effected by them.

I can't change that my profile here is a pornographic one and I'll never side with a SWERF on such things, but I can make my own attempts to minimize damage. So even if I make this change now, if I learn there is a better way to help destigmatize more peoples, I would be willing to make those changes. I won't be trigger-happy with changes, as there's a need to listen and internalize what is said so these decisions make time, but I want to make it clear that I'm willing to correction from groups I am not a direct member of.
I'll take time to consider and think about it, there may be an accurate way to indicate these real differences and diversity without always using trans to tag it, but it'll take time for me to figure that out and practice. But I don't think I'll use futa for them either.
Amaterasu
1 year ago
I'm glad then that you have considered these things and aren't just blanket replacing one term with a different one but trying to better represent trans and intersex characters outside of just the word futanari. i know it is very easy to try and take a positive stance on one topic just to end up being harmful to another group so thank you for considering all sides to this.

I think the idea of moving away from Futa as a way to minimize the idea of Trans bodies as inherently sexual is a good one (even if it seems moot at face value as an NSFW artist lmao). I'm slightly sad that Futanari which started off like more of a third gender sort of evolved into being almost explicitly a sexual kink, similar to how woke has been hijacked. But I understand it's the world we live in and we make our decisions accordingly.

Perhaps one day when Trans people aren't being attacked in the media and are more accepted in society we can look back on this moment and feel like we all made a small change matter. but until that day. I and many others support your cause to make Trans representation more accommodating even if I personally don't have an issue with the term futa itself.
SALTORII
1 year ago
Thanks, I like to introspect as it is so I'm always welcome to changing my mind on most things.
On being a nsfw artist, yeah it can feel a bit moot, but there's two reasons for this change (for me), foremost is being made (painfully) aware there are transphobes in my audience who enjoy my futa art, so it's a stance to make it explicitly clear that they can't disconnect the artistic representations of the bodies they hate while also jerking it to.
On terminology, of course it's complicated, but I am pro-sex work and I am sex-positive pro-kink and anti-swerf, so these things have value, its different rules than regular society of course, but there is a responsibility to create while being aware of these things. The terminology has been part of a discussion I've had with multiple trans peoples of many genders and sexualities but also with sex-workers and sex-work researchers, and there is a trend of people historically and currently seeing the people these bodies belong to in negative lights due to how pornography has labelled us, both the consumers of porn and those who are anti-porn. It's similar to how other early categorizations of people in porn has been disconnected to reality and been offensive and embedded offensive views subconsciously, such as use of the t-slur, using lesbian to actually mean bisexual, the use of bbc and so on, when disconnected from the way we talk about these people in our regular lives it makes some people view these people as pornographic which is dehumanizing. They only exist to be sexual gratification for the person viewing rather than fully fleshed people, not to everyone but to some, and to the people with these biases already it adds to it. It's similar to chasers or generally people who are bigoted but will fuck the person they are bigoted towards. It's all complicated and needs better research and understanding but it's part of what contributes to my standing here.

I hope the world changes, but if I'm unwilling to make a minor change in my life then how can I claim to want more important changes too? Well, I can't square that for myself anymore.
Demesejha
1 year ago
Deeply appreciated
SALTORII
1 year ago
👍
CrystalMendrilia
1 year ago
(chuckles) By how the term Futanari has evolved. Most certainly not Trans back in the day lol. Word meant Hermaphrodites before lol.  the Evolution of Language is such a fun thing.  It's why it is so silly that people get so bent out of shape over words instead of context. Today some words can't even be 'said' or you're 'racist' even though the word used to be politically correct. xD  

If anyone gives you a hard time for your decision though, blah on them! You do you. ^_^    

As a Trans myself I find the whole discussion really childish and silly. xD  But I can certainly respect someone giving it some serious thought too.  so *Huggles* ^_^
SALTORII
1 year ago
all history of how words surrounding gender diversity evolved and represented differently through history (to some it's a shock that pink isn't a !biologically female" colour lol) is so interesting to me, but in modern contexts it's under the umbrella of gender diversity. It's wild to me anyone thinks these things are "modern inventions" when there's the historical examples of intersex people existing beyond the binary and being respected by some for it (Hermaphroditus as a Goddess), it's all interesting but not a particularly known history, which is sad, because how these things evolved is interesting. The terminology changes, but it certainly couldn't be called cis by modern contexts.

You're free to your own perspective on it, and I understand where you're coming from, even if my stance is different.
CrystalMendrilia
1 year ago
I was not talking "just Gender" lol.  Try the N word lol.

"(to some it's a shock that pink isn't a !biologically female" colour lol)"
o_O  Males liking pink was hardly ever Radical! Just uncommon, which it still is today. lol.

"It's wild to me anyone thinks these things are "modern inventions" when there's the historical examples of intersex people existing beyond the binary and being respected by some for it (Hermaphroditus as a Goddess)"

Nah, they try to assign this stuff onto history the way Religions try to assign Science onto silly things said in their books. :P


My perspective is actually pretty simple.  Biology is Biology, and this is important because it applies to medical science. aka Your Chromosomes matter.  When it comes to Society, and social aspects, sure I mean a Cross Dresser being treated as feminine is fine, or a Female cross dresser being treated as a male is fine. That's just social Hell Jordan Peterson is fine with that and he's hailed as a "Transphobe" not that anyone is scared of us.

But the point is, socially we can be whatever we want to be. Biologically we are what we are.

Changing Hermaphrodites to Trans, despite the lack of Genitals....  is weird to me lol.  But hey if that's your thing, fire away! :D   the word might no longer mean that.

Here's a thought....

Otokonoko (男の娘, "male daughter" or "male girl", also pronounced as otoko no musume) is a Japanese term for men who have a culturally feminine gender expression. This includes amongst others males with feminine appearances, or those cross-dressing.
SALTORII
1 year ago
ah... we are not going to agree on any of this.
Jordan Peterson is a transphobe and a misogynist. The guy who thinks women wearing lipstick means they're asking for sexual harassment in the workplace and propagandized against trans people for a decade, now finally going fully mask off by calling my body a criminal act of insanity is absolutely a transphobe. If you can't grasp that then there's no further discussion to have. How much more transphobic does he have to be before you pay attention? I'm not going to be told what is or isn't transphobic by someone unaffected by it or espousing it on their own transphobic beliefs. It's not up to the cis people who hate us to decide what is or isn't transphobic. If 99% of the class of people effected by the bigotry call it bigotry, maybe you should start to listen.  
Hope you learn and grow, but I'm not taking that burden on my back.
CrystalMendrilia
1 year ago
Well if you want to say Jordan Peterson is a Transphobe and a misogynist, I sure hope you got some Evidence since nobody actually has been able to show me any. At best he's a "Transphobe" because he's willing to use the terms people want to be called but not by Force by the Government which is entirely Reasonable. As for Misogynist, I'm sorry but that means anti woman. He's very pro Woman empowerment so.... you've been lied to. LoL

"he guy who thinks women wearing lipstick means they're asking for sexual harassment in the workplace....."
Yeah you don't know what he said.

"...now finally going fully mask off by calling my body a criminal act of insanity is absolutely a transphobe."
Okay that's a new one, can you send me a reference? I would like to see that for personal reasons.


"...by someone unaffected by it or espousing it on their own transphobic beliefs."  
I'm Curious in what way you think i'm unaffected by it?

"It's not up to the cis people who hate us to decide what is or isn't transphobic."
Being Cis doesn't mean they hate us lol. Some people may hate us but being cis isn't the defining factor, come on. lol.

" If 99% of the class of people effected by the bigotry call it bigotry, maybe you should start to listen."
That's an exaggeration. Trans people not part of the LGBTQWERTY Community have opinions too ya know. BLM pretends to care about the lives of Black People while calling people Racist for pointing out 90% of all Mass Shootings are done by Black People. (usually against other Blacks)  we care about that, but BLM doesn't.   So does that mean BLM should listen to what the majority of people say about black on black crime? Or is it Racist?  o_O  


"Hope you learn and grow, but I'm not taking that burden on my back."

Nobody accused you of "faking" I'm very certain I would have described you as believing what you believe. Unlike you though, I didn't jump to conclusions about what the other person sees in this conversation....  I'm really not sure what else to say, so I'll leave it at that. I feel you've jumped to a LOT of conclusions about me, that are entirely wrong so I'm not sure if it's helpful to respond to anything else until you read this response as is.  :)

Please understand, I'm not insulting, degrading you otherwise ignoring your feelings in this even though you did not afford me the same. I'm just putting things in perspective.


PS: Please note, I support your decision to use Futa as Trans instead of Herm as it actually means. If that is what you wish to do, I 100% support you in it. If that is how you are defining it, and you've made a note publicly that is how you are defining it, to hell with whatever everyone else thinks :P   Your Heart is in the Right Place.
SALTORII
1 year ago
Why are you willing to go to bat for a guy I heard with my own ears say this shit before doing a simple google search? What purpose does that gain beyond saying you agree with him? How can you even have him on your radar if you haven't heard him say this shit? It was a very public news story just last year. Are you an idiot or... a secret third thing?

JP "here's a question but let's have a real question can men and women work together in the workplace?"
"yes, yes, I do it-"
JP "how do you know?"
"because I work with a lot of women."
JP "right well, it's been happening for what, 40 years? and and things are deteriorating very rapidly at the moment in terms of the relationships between men and women it's like we don't know if men and women can work together sexually"

"do you think men and women can work in the workplace together?"
JP "I don't know"
"without sexual harassment?"
JP "we'll see"
"well how many years will it take for a men and women working in the workplace together?"
JP "more than 40. [...] we're completely new at it it's only been a couple of generations. that's part of the problem, right, is that we don't know what the rules are-- like what here's a rule how about no makeup in the workplace?"
"why would that why should you wear makeup in the workplace?"
JP "isn't that sexually provocative?"
2018

"Remember when pride was a sin? And [Elliot]  Page just had [his] breasts removed by a criminal physician."
"With regard to the final phrase, criminal physician. I must say that I've had some post coital, so to speak, regrets about that phrase. It is clearly the case that the surgical operation performed by the butchers who butchered Elliot slash [Elliott] was legal. So was it criminal or not? Were the operations undertaken by the fascist physicians who carried out the Nazi medical experiments legal? Yes, under the laws of the time. But were they criminal? I'll leave that question up to you to answer."
2022

You can't be trans and not LGBT, but you can be a useful idiot full of internalized transphobia, that's for sure.

"The Mother Jones database, which dates back to Aug. 20, 1982, counts 91 mass shootings. Of these, 50 were carried out by white men — hence, where Newsweek and other outlets got the statistic that 54 percent of mass shootings carried out since 1982 were done so by white men.

For comparison’s sake, Mother Jones' data show African-Americans accounted for 15 mass shootings, while Latinos and Asians were responsible for seven each. Three attacks were carried out by women, including one of the two perpetrators behind the 2015 San Bernardino shooting."
Wrong.

You're the one misconstruing what I said. The cis people who hate us, I did not say "cis people hate us" I said "cis people WHO hate us". Do you really think most transphobes are trans, not cis anyway? Sorry for assuming otherwise, but it looks like you are one of the rare ones. Love yourself a little.

I didn't bring up me "faking" anything, why the fuck are you suddenly bringing it up if you weren't thinking it? And implying I'm some cross dresser earlier? Nah, I've given you way too much good faith considering all that, you don't get to claim I'm "jumping to conclusions" about you when you've said all this and I gave you the grace to ignore it the first time.
You can talk about support on this decision, but I don't care for someone who would correlate my existence with cross dressing and defend people Famous for being transphobic in my audience. Do your own research I'm not getting into a wishy washy debate about real issues with you when you can't even be bothered to google what I referenced (VERY EASILY FOUND!) before going to bat for these things and then spreading false statistics about black people too. Nah, you've shown your face, any conclusions I "jumped" to were proven correct with your own words, funnily enough I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but you wanted to die on the hill of defending JP.
Bye.
Makroth
10 months, 3 weeks ago
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootin...

"Do you feel like women wearing makeup in the workplace contributes to sexual harassment in the workplace?" Peterson is asked. "Sure it contributes," he responds.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/joe-rogan-guest-jordan-pe...

"It's not just wrong. It's Auschwitz and gulag-level wrong. It's Nazi medical experiment-level wrong."
BlazeMG
1 year ago
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It comes down to the basic courtesy of "call someone what they want to be called" and that level of politeness costs absolutely nothing. As far as tags goes it doesn't really bother me either way, though I never would have used the hentai term "futanari" to refer to an actual human person. Even for fictional characters, I'd also avoid using it to refer to any fictional characters if I was told by the artist or their owner not to refer to them as such. Again, basic courtesy.

That said, it's incredibly stupid that someone is being this much of a nuisance about it to you. Evidently, "costs nothing" is still too much for some fucking people.

That and it sucks you've had to deal with bigotry through your life for being trans, as so many others have. I don't get what's apparently such a big deal to them that they feel the need to make other people miserable just because they don't conform to what the bigots' world view is.
SALTORII
1 year ago
thanks for understanding
Chipples
1 year ago
What about people that like futa for the fictional aspect of it? The fictional existence of natural born feminine characters with both male and female parts, aka hermaphrodites.
SALTORII
1 year ago
There's so much of that already, my change is less than a drop in the bucket. If that's how you'd rather see it, you're more than welcome to look at it and interpret it that way, I only ask people acknowledge that there are real people like this who are currently oppressed and the main attack of bigots.
I prioritize combatting bigotry in the real world than fantasy that ignore it and lets some people disconnect and jerk it to the visualization o the bodies they're bigoted towards. I can't ignore that when the rise in transphobia has an international outcry from human rights organizations. We live in troubled times, times that directly effect me, and I can't put my head in the sand even here. There was a time I could, but that time has passed.
ChaosSonic1
11 months ago
it is your choice if you want to or not you make your own choices
Makroth
10 months, 3 weeks ago
But how many futas are trans? How many of these fictional women with penises transition into being who they actually are when they figure out what that is? How many artists drawing them actually make a statement? I was under the impression that whatever setting they appear in has girls born with dicks as a common occurence. And so they remain that throughout their lives. "Born this way".

Maybe it's just me. I watch several comics and pics just for the porn and so i often miss certain details.
SALTORII
10 months, 1 week ago
I feel thats semantics. Many trans people dont get bottom surgery, as would many fictional trans women/"futa". I don't see the distinction between "a somehow cis girl who was born with a dick" and the reality that some women (trans women) have a penis. I think more often the intent to distinguish between the fictional term and the real people is done is service of ppl who are attracted to the bodies of trans women but don't want to acknowledge them as women so find a fictional loop hole where they don't have to internally address how these people exist and are what they're attracted to.
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