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PedrohSpaceWolfy

Removing self-restrictions because I want to post soon

After trying to tackle the introductory sketches a bit more and making little progress, I decided to completely cancel this requirement (definitely still drawing them, just not gonna force myself to do so before I start posting again). I am also canceling the conlang requirement, and I’ll just keep the TMI bits out until I’m ready to update the descriptions to have them in the conlang. But basically I want to go back to posting as soon as possible.

I have been working on the tag-helper (it will really help a lot) since I don’t think I can bring myself to post a bunch of stuff without it, but progress is steady and if everything goes right it should be ready in a few days, then I’ll just have to retag and update everything.
The personal tag system I wanna make is a bit of a problem, though, as I was just working on it just now and it is decision paralysis hell. I’m struggling with it but what I might do is also let go of that and instead just use the “normal” tags that people expect (as well as the hg_ag_nl_ml stuff). I might just upload the spreadsheet to dropbox or something and keep updating it, since I’ve promised that for ages and never delivered.
What I don’t like about it is interfacing with other people, which I suspect would not go well, so what’s the point? Basically, if I was using it just for myself, it would be fine, but it’s very CODE-LIKE, meaning that it’s not the best for human readability (for instance, there would be no “cub”, “loli” or “shota” tags, but instead, they’d be combinations of age, species and gender tags like child_anthro_herm). They’re supposed to be more efficient, though, especially for sites that don’t allow complex tag quantum mechanics like e621 does.
I would appreciate feedback on this.

Now, if I do as stated above, I should be able to just start posting again pretty much as soon as I’m done with the tag-helper (need to implement autocomplete search function and ways to add/edit/remove things from within the application, instead of having to edit the json text). But then the main issue is that I want to start posting in order from the beginning of 2021… but the very first drawings (they’re finished) are very… not vanilla… and it would be a bit of a shock compared to what I have in my galleries now.
Basically, because they were not drawn to be posted, I was a bit weird with them, of course, and I’m a bit embarrassed about the themes and how I handled it (a bit obsessed with something weird and more on the gross side).
It’s nothing bad, of course, and I’m sure people wouldn’t give me a reason to be embarrassed, but still, I wanted to go gradual from what is in my galleries right now to my… more intense stuff, especially considering that it’s like a bunch of drawings on the same exact theme one after the other (yes, obsessed).

What I could do about that, and I think I’ll do that, is post the unfinished sketches that I wanted to use for theme introductions already (in scraps, since they’re so unfinished), and let people see the “pathway” that I was tracing to intensify the content in the account (though it’s not a smooth transition, I couldn’t resist some things here and there). It is also incomplete (I had a whole list and didn’t do it all), but I assume people would want to see them already, since I would only share them when I finally reach #525 in my posting order (I can post a lot every day, but there are quite a few unfinished drawings before the introductory sketches are reached and I’d want to finish them for posting in order).
I also don’t know if I should post only the things intended as introductory drawings, or if other drawings that were made around them should go as well, such as the eight commission drawings I finished and delivered but never posted.



This part is just for InkBunny. Originally, I was gonna post humans and humanoids only in places like HicceArs, but I decided to do what people do and just “censor” them here. I can’t just bring myself to do a lazy censor though, but I have two ideas on how to handle it.
One of them is to add slight modifications to humanoids that are already not very human but still too close for IB, and make them more flaun-like or animal-like, which should be fine (such as adding little animal noses, longer ears, a proper tail and so on).
The other idea I had was to create a “shadow bunny” species, which is pretty much to just cover the human with black maintaining anatomy and pose, but giving them long ears and a long tail. A bit more creative, and it changes the drawing a lot, but it’s interesting and my brain is telling me to do it. Shadow bunnies are also better than the one above because if someone sees that in my gallery they IMMEDIATELY know it’s a censored human and that there will be a link. Sadly this means I can’t do shadow bunnies on their own, though (unless people are okay with the potential confusion and disappointment from clicking a shadow bunny thinking there will be humans).
Original versions would be posted on HicceArs and linked here.
Is that allowed? I hope it’s allowed. If it’s allowed I won’t have to skip over things I want to post just because it’s too human. I just turn them into furless anthros or shadow bunnies and link the originals.




15/01/2022: I am also going to give up on the custom tag system. This is both because of what I talked about before, on how it gets too technical and less intuitive, trying to create a perfect polished system which just makes it very different from normal tags. But also because there should be a 200 keyword limit on submissions, as clarified by moderation on InkBunny.
I thought it had no limit because I managed to post more than the specified limit before, but that seems to be a bug. So there is really no place for such an intricate and detailed tag system.
If anyone is curious to see how complicated it would be, feel free to take a look here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OUbJeAyoa1wMOB0...

So as of right now, all I really have to do is gather some useful, commonly-used tags for the themes I draw, finish the tag-helper and then inject those “normal” tags in it. I still want to use synonyms and parent-tag things, like “butthole” and “anus” or “otter” “mustellid” “mammal”, but again, I’ll try to stop worrying about covering all holes, and just use what people use. I might even stop with the “anthro_SPECIES” “cub_SPECIES”, since some of these have no entires (I started doing that because some suggested tags were that).
Viewed: 69 times
Added: 4 months ago
 
TommyTheMouse
4 months ago
I appreciate your artwork and as someone who is into some of the more "weird" and "gross" fetishes I hope you eventually feel comfortable posting them, as I assure you that there are plenty of people who would appreciate them.  You are correct in that you have no reason to be embarrassed about them, but I understand that looking objectively at internal feelings is near impossible, so take your time in doing so.  I know you don't want friends and so I will not attempt to get close to you, but I do feel that everyone deserves to be comfortable.  Although I know you will likely never use them, I would like to say that my DMs are open if you did have something you wanted to discuss with a random stranger on the internet with no strings attached.

I personally am quite interested in all artwork that people post, so I would be interested in anything you would feel comfortable sharing, no matter the content or polish level.

I hope you have a good day, and don't feel obligated to respond.
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
Oh don't worry, I'll post them. It's just that it's like FOURTEEN consecutive drawings on the same specific theme (not even that common from what I remember), and I just thought that going from the stuff I've been posting, to a hiatus, to THAT would be a bit of whiplash.
Posting the introductory sketches should help with that (this specific theme IS one of the introductory sketches).
My only dilema is whether I should post them unfinished before anything else or wait for their "turn", as finished drawings.

Anyways, thanks for the input. I hope I get to post soon. I wish IB and FA made tagging more centralized (and a lot better in the case of FA).
TommyTheMouse
4 months ago
I'm sure there are at least a few people would be excited to see 14 new posts in their favorite theme; and no matter what the theme is, for someone it is their favorite.  I can guarantee that you anyone who is following you will not be upset with a sudden influx of artwork, and if they are then that's their problem and they can choose to unfollow you.  I personally would post them unfinished if you're not planning on finishing them, but if you are I would rather see them at their once you are happy with saying they are done.
GreenReaper
4 months ago
You should use (at least) the regular keywords here, because they actually work for the keyword blocking feature, and also if people do a specific keyword search and for the related recommendations-on-fav feature - so if you don't use them, you'd both be hurting the visibility of your work, and potentially antagonizing people who have specifically chosen not to see it.

"child_anthro_herm" may show up in a general search for, say, 'herm', due to it having a text-based component, but it won't if someone clicks 'herm' and it won't be blocked for 'herm'. It's also not clear what people would get from it that couldn't be addressed by 'child' (or better, if appropriate, 'cub'), 'anthro' and 'herm', considering that they can do a multiple keyword search if they want to.

In general keywords should address a single concept. Depending on the situation, you might use pools to represent compound concepts - or, yes, custom keywords, in addition to the ones that are required.
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
Oh, I didn't clarify it in this post because it wasn't entirely about that, but in one of my main journals (the numbered one) I address this.
My plan is to use both systems, mine and the normal tags, of course, since I know how important the keyword blocking is. I just want to provide an extra way for people to browse, search or block stuff, which kinda brings functionality that is present on e621 but not here.

This is why the little application I was making helps. I can just click on tags and it adds everything, "child_anthro_herm" would add all combinations of those three individual words, as well as things like cub and alternates of the words like "kid" and "hermaphrodite", parent tags like "intersex" and so on, all just from "child_anthro_herm". And then I can just copy-paste the "processed" tags from the application to here.
I really want to hit as many tags as possible, exactly because of what you said. I want the system I'm talking about because... Let's say someone likes YOUNG males, elderly FEMALES, but not elderly males... Blocking "elderly male" could block situations that have elderly females and young males (right?). So having the compound tags on top of the regular ones helps with that.
GreenReaper
4 months ago
I like the idea of generating common aliases automatically, but with the caveat that you'd have to be careful that you didn't, say, add 'cub' for 'child', because e.g. human children are not cubs. There's also a limit of 100 keywords to avoid keyword stuffing, which may crimp your style here.

To be honest, the part where you add all compound possibilities seems like an inefficient and ineffective workaround for the current (validly-criticised) inability to block a combination of keywords. To be effective, it'd be necessary for a non-trivial number of people to adopt the same system, and it'd result in a multiplicity of keywords - really, phrases - that'd have to be agreed; compare male/female vs. m/f now.

Site-wide, there's also limited use of blocked keywords. Of 134048 recently-active users, only 16400 (12%) have at least one keyword block. Most are for common topics such as 'scat', 'diaper' or 'cub' where, if anything, they mostly care about rating. Only eighteen active users block 'elderly', and 43 for 'anthro'; it's not clear how many would want to be more specific - or might block if they could be more specific - but it's likely to be a smaller number. (The count for 'young' is 762, likely because some use it for work which doesn't quite meet 'cub'; so it's closer to being "worth it' as a combination, though probably still not.)

It may be useful for people who watched you and wanted to see some but not all work, however the number is again likely to be small. It'd be worth focusing on obvious high-value combinations like cub_X where X is something else likely to be blocked. Of course, if those people have one or the other keyword blocked to cover everyone else's work; since you'd still have these, it could still be blocked...
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
"There's also a limit of 100 keywords"
Um... I would like to report a bug then. I tested this before, with one of my pixel doodles. It has like 109. I knew I read somewhere that there was a limit of 100, but I got past it... somehow.
(I just tested it after typing this whole comment and even 209 unique tags seemed fine, which is why I thought this whole thing was an okay idea to begin with).

This is good feedback and I greatly appreciate it. Might actually save me quite a bit of work. I think the problem is that I have "planner" brain, I will literally try to solve for the most obscure of issues before I'm okay with an idea.
I still don't like that I have to pick what's most important to include if I do run out of space for the tags, though, seeing as some obvious synonyms have to be added (such as some singular-plural things that have a comparable number of instances in each of them).

I'll keep all of this in mind. I guess I need to relax about tagging. I wish I could know better how much is enough and which tags are the best ones to use.
GreenReaper
4 months ago
Looks like I was wrong: the maximum is set to 200. Perhaps at one point it was 100 and got raised. How you got 209, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't put it past us to have a place where we don't check it correctly.

If you look at the list of latest submissions, it will show a list of keywords at the top. Perhaps that would be a good list of well-used keywords to consider? They're ordered by being the most used sitewide - though, technically, I think the ones there are only those used within that list of submissions; but if they've not been used once in the last three days, they're probably not very popular keywords.
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
Yeah, I don't think there is a limit, actually. Just tested over 1000.
https://inkbunny.net/s/2626721

I'm assuming there isn't any sort of keyword catalogue where I can see them all, right?
About the latest submissions. Is there a way I can do that without seeing art? I wish I could block stuff that LACKS a tag, like on e621. There I just blacklist everything that is not made by me with -pedrohspacewolfy, but I tried and can't do that here.
GreenReaper
4 months ago
Through what interface did you add those keywords? API, or website? On submission creation, or after? Edit: Looking at the code, it seems like it's "max keywords added at once", which... isn't super-effective as a limit. But it'd be good to know if that was working, at least.

There is no keyword catalogue I can think of; even keyword autosuggest is not guaranteed to show all of them. But wouldn't it be enough to just block keywords and set allowed ratings appropriately, if there's specific content you don't want to see? (Of course, those blocked keywords and any keywords used specifically on work of particular ratings might not be included in the keyword list if you did that and you have "hide blocked submissions completely" on in account settings.)
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
I added it normally on the site, through submission creation, in one of those four boxes.
I tested it in the field that lets you add more later just now, and there I got the 100 limit. I tried adding over 1000 additional tags and it just trimmed it to 100. But yeah, I can literally just keep doing it until all the thousands of tags go in, 100 at a time.

edit: Oh wait, no, it stopped doing it, now it doesn't add anymore and stopped at 1123. But if I go to "manage keywords" then I can add them all.

And yeah, I'll just block keywords and hope for the best. I did give it a try just to remember if I could see the tags without seeing the art, which can be done if I cover the lower part of my screen, but I still get to see tags that I wish I didn't see. Reminds me of things I'd like to forget. Should be fine if they disappear when blocked, though.

edit again: I'm retrieving my old blacklist for this and the one thing that I don't like is that it doesn't always work due to the non-centralized nature of the keywords here (some people use abuse for situations that are happy, while others for REALLY NO-NO STUFF), as well as the fact that submissions can be blocked for parts of keywords (I used to see that "killer_whale" gets blocked for the "killer" in my blacklist).
GreenReaper
4 months ago
Hope it works out. Let me know when you're done testing and I'll remove those keywords so we don't have 2000-odd of them soaking up the btree leaves in the database indexes. 😅
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
Oh, I was going to delete the submission. I just wanted to wait to be sure you saw how the test went, I didn't do much more because now it's clear that there is no limit, probably. I doubt I'd ever go anywhere close to 2000 tags anyway.
GreenReaper
4 months ago
Ah, right! Unfortunately, that wouldn't have done the same thing because a) the full details of a submission marked deleted is not actually deleted, and b) even if the keywords are removed from a submission, the keyword itself remains (I don't think we have a cleaner system for zero uses currently), so I removed them manually. Hopefully we won't see any holes in the database as a result. 😼

[That time when indexing got messed up due to a libc collation change and we ended up with multiple keywords for e.g. 'cub' was pretty bad...]
PedrohSpaceWolfy
4 months ago
Ah yes, I figured something like that could be a thing, so I waited for a response. Glad to hear I did the right thing.
PedrohSpaceWolfy
3 months, 3 weeks ago
Sorry to bother, but I thought this might be of relevance.
So after the stuff you told me about how to see what tags to use, I started doing some research and then wrote a thing to take all the tags I found, sort them by count and remove duplicates.
The result was something of a catalogue, though it is obviously flawed and incomplete, since I didn't go through every single picture of the site (of course):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i12nuh0chumsckz/IB%20keyword%...

That said, if it was somehow easy for yall to make something that does that (copies the tags from every submission and puts it in a text file), I could process the raw data for a better catalogue. But it would still be a bit broken if the tags have their underscores replaced by spaces (there is no way to tell some numeric tags apart, so it breaks the parser I wrote a bit).

Basically I had to work around:
Spaces separating tags (male 900,000 female 700,00) or words inside tags (anthro dog 666 anthro bunny 420 anthro cat 666).
Commas not working as a separator because they can be under 1000 (blah 88 bleh 32 blih 55).
And numbers also not separating tags since they can be tags (rule 34 5,222 69 38,255).

But if I all tags kept their underscores in the text file, I could just use spaces to separate them and the catalogue wouldn't have some flawed entries.
I imagine that it's quite easy to write something that removes duplicates and sorts it (I just used a sorted dictionary and a youtube tutorial on how to sort by value, so that's doing all I needed). So the problem is probably on accessing the data for that, I imagine.
Still I thought I'd let you know, just in case.

Journal with more detail: https://inkbunny.net/j/444294
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