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RealZero

Inkbunny: Tagging of images - Does it work well for you?

To say that in advance: It does quite good for me. I blocked several keywords, and I haven't really seen any of the content I wanted to avoid.

But well, I'm around here and at FA, but also in several artists' journals and such.

And several times, and especially in the last two or three weeks, I've read people complaining and many even leaving Inkbunny for the sake of using FA again.

People said that they keywords and the blocking are ultimately useless as the tagging isn't enforced strictly enough, artists don't tag their stuff, and no one takes care about it.

The content they didn't want to see differed from person to person, of course, but several ones agreed, that even if you filter "cub", the website and especially frontpage would still look like a specific cubporn website and such.
 I cannot judge that specific case as I do not block that tag, but well, for this journal that's not a neccessary part anyway.

Important is: Does keyword blocking work out for you? Is there anything you'd like changed? Do you thinkg IB doesn't have enough staff members to enforce the tagging of images?

What can be done to prevent those people from leaving? After all it's a fact: Even if the blocking works for "us", it seems there are people not satisfied with this, and ultimately the problem is people not tagging their submissions correctly.

So? More mods? Automatic tags that you actively have to "opt-out" from?

What's your idea(s), impressions, experiences?

Tell me about it, I'm curious.

Thanks for sharing your mind in advance, greetings,

RealZero
Viewed: 27 times
Added: 6 years, 11 months ago
 
bWGi
6 years, 11 months ago
I have been seeing these journals a lot too, and most are about cub art; However, people not tagging there art properly also has the problem of making finding similar art or searching near impossible, especially since people do using so any different terms and spellings for the same thing. We seriously need a collection of "default" keywords to select from than add custom ones if there is other content so as to deal with different spellings and terms. Though even if these things are implimented, it still has the problem of users simply not tagging there art right. like putting "male,nude, m/m" but forgetting the word cub since to them it isn't that important when that is all they do.
RealZero
6 years, 11 months ago
Indeed what you say is true, the problem is a proper solution.
I think stuff like gender of the chars should actually be handled with checkboxes. Just "Contains male" "contains female" and so on.
And according to the choice, the corresponding tags would be chosen that would be the same all over the site.
That would be relatively easy, but as soon as it comes to fetishes/kinks, well. Sure, possible, but who wants to go through a big fetish list everytime submitting something?

So, yeah, maybe it would be a good idea to have the auto-suggester only ALLOW predefined tags and then an extra field to include new ones. That way is someone types "boob", it might be suggested "boobs" and that would be the one the person had to choose, so everyone would use the same word for it.
Maybe even replacements like: You type "cock" and it allows you to choose "cock --> penis" or something, so the tags are kept the same.

But first off this might be quite some work in coding, and even more important, you'd have to leave some way open for people to suggest and add new tags, and these would have to be checked, compared, collected and so on, so, it would surely require the IB staff to work overtime or "hire" more people.

It's sure a long way to go, but I think once it's "finished" it would be quite convenient.

So, yeah, I basically agree with ya, maybe I'll include some of these things in my next suggestions ticket.^^
bWGi
6 years, 11 months ago
I understand how much work it would be to code that, I work in Web Design/programming.

To make the list easier to use it could be sorted into categories when they are added so there could be a gender category with "male,female,none,herm..." etc in it to select from.The myriad of different genders people use make it impossible to really use a male/female check-box without offending someone.

For adding things, any custom tags could be compiled with a simple db query(time consuming to run unless they had there own table) every so often(weekly)and than an admin could either assign it to mean the same as a previous word, accept it, or remove it. though this system would require that there be a field for character names and such so that admins don't have to go threw those.

While at it though this isn't exactly on the same topic, what about things like a check box to say that it is work you commissioned, or was commissioned to do. this would allow for artists to stop needing a "commissions account" and a "personal account".
starling
6 years, 11 months ago
We don't enforce tagging at all! It is up to artists to decide what subjects apply to their own work. They have the final say. And yet most images seem to be tagged correctly and blocking/searching works quite well I believe.

There's no rules that you have to tag an image a certain way. But we find that 99.9% of people understand tagging is important and they do it correctly. Of all these complaints of "people don't tag cub", etc, I have yet to see many good examples. If someone blocks a tag, it will remove most of the subject matter they want to avoid, and that's better than most other sites can do. It will never be perfect and it's not meant to utterly erase a subject from your sight, just to make it far less common for you to run in to.

Sometimes artists just need reminding to add a tag or two they forgot.
RealZero
6 years, 11 months ago
I have to admit, that actually disappoints me a bit now.

The keyword blocking is one of the features that's one of my main points in telling people why IB is a great website.
"Oh, you hate that [whatever furry gallery] is full of [whatever fetish]? Weeeell, at IB you could simply block it.", ya know?
It's great, it's convenient and a very nice feature to have.

And from the looks of what those people who's journals I've read say, IB always had two features setting it apart from others: the keyword blocking and the sales system.
The latter one is gone for a relatively big part, yes, it will return, but the new version will not be as convenient and easy as the old one was, because it was just great not to have to think about the whole printing, because all you had to do it putting something in your gallery. Not blaming you here, that's not really the point of this journal anyway, what I'm saying is, one of the big things that got people over here, especially artists, and damn, that's what an art site needs, is already gone, at least to the degree that sure lured many of them over here.

And now you say that even the tagging of images is optional? Really, if ya ask me, that's a damn pity.
Inkbunny still has the reputation to be mainly a cub-porn website to many people. I KNOW that's not true, and even IF it were, I wouldn't really mind. BUT in the end this is keeping a group of people, artists and fans alike, away from it. That's a fact, I've seen many people using that as their reason for not being over here.

But even asides that, you know yourself, I'm sure, there are many "weird" things, image-wise, around the furry community. And the tagging system would allow people to actually stay away from the stuff that makes them feel uncomfortable. Isn't that an important thing? Having people feel good about a website, making them enjoy their time on it?
And let's face it, the mandatory choice of "Clean, mature, adult" isn't really enough, cause I think most people feel pissed off by a certain topic rather than an age rating.

Sure, don't get me wrong, you're correct: Even now what IB has sure is better than what the other sites offer, but should that be the correct attitude? "We're already a bit better than them"? Sure, you are, but why not even better?

Yeah, sometimes artists just need a reminder, but well? "Hey, you forgot labelling your pic with 'gruesome, vomit, decapitation, cub, porn" - "Oh really? Well, all the tagging is too much work for me, uploading takes too long like that, I don't care."

Well, HE might not care, but visitors of the website might and most certainly will.

I also hate "enforced" stuff, but here it makes the website better for the visitors without actually enforcing any strict bans or something like that.

So, yeah...I'm really sorry if this sounds pissed now, I really don't wanna insult the website or anyone on it and I beg for forgiveness if it sounds like that.
But in the end the main thing IB lacks currently, in comparison to other gallery websites, is a big and diverse userbase.
And if you ask me, one of the main goals should be luring new users over here and making sure they have a good time.

People seem to enjoy keyword blocking and the convenience of not having to see what they don't want to see.
So if this is what they want in a website, shouldn't one try to offer it in a way that works the best?

Just my opinion of all of it.
I tend to think I'm sure not an uptight person, but yeah. At least in my case, with officially not enforcing the use of the tag feature, you're at least taking away my main point in convincing people why they should come over here, because, as many other great things IB offers, this was one of the most convenient ones.

It's your website and it's your decision on how to handle it, but this is my opinion as one of the users, and I'm sure at least a handful of people would agree with me.

So, yeah, that's it. Have a nice time. Greetings,
RealZero

(Yay, character limit...)
starling
6 years, 11 months ago
Yes but what I'm saying is that most (I'd hazard to say nearly ALL) images are tagged just fine and I don't see any problem. Anyone complaining is just freaking out because one picture gets through now and then. They just need to grow up.
RealZero
6 years, 11 months ago
Well, I see.
Just saw about four journals and such in the last three days, so I wanted to hear other people's opinions.
But yeah, okay.

Just speaking my mind here, in the end it means missing out possible members, but yeah, that's just my opinion and I felt like sharing it here.

Greets
starling
6 years, 11 months ago
I should add that we do tell artists to tag when there have been a number of complaints or they are obviously just being lazy.
Shokuji
6 years, 11 months ago
So far, as long as people keyword their submissions properly, it's worked really well. =3 There have been a few times where something has gotten through because the person who submitted it didn't take the time to put in relevant keywords (or proper keywords).

What I'd like see added to the thumbnails is the number of keywords for that submission. When a submission only has 1-4 keywords it's probably not keyworded very well. But if there's like 7 or more, then that's probably a much better keyworded submission (and therefore probably has more accurate keywords in place).

IB has enough staff for the number of support tickets they get (from what I'm told). As Starling has pointed out, IB really puts the power in the hands of the users. While the staff ultimately has the final say in what should or shouldn't be keyworded, they really try to keep that decision with the owner of the submission.

For example
FurCollector
FurCollector
for a while there really didn't want to label his stuff 'cub' because they're not supposed to be. It's just his style that makes people confused about what fictional age his art is. At the time, if he was forced to label his stuff 'cub' he might have left IB because he knew what ages his characters were, so forcing that on him would have been quite upsetting. I had suggested the keyword neoteny which seems to fit his style quite well, and he agreed.

I think that's part of the reason there's no policing of keywords. It really is up to the submission owner what keywords relate to their upload. If you (or anyone) disagrees, send them a polite PM. If that's ignored or whatever & they continue to keyword poorly; every user has the ability to block all uploads by another user. It's a useful feature, you don't ban them so they can keep commenting or whatever and they are none the wiser.

But yeah, I think that lots of people just don't know all the features of the site and therefore get miffy about the little things they could easily remedy on their own. X3
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