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Eve - For Master!
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Sloss
Sloss' Gallery (477)

Question - Author Inserting Themselves in their Art

Scrap - My Reply

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by Sloss
EDIT: As I type this, Inkbunny's image uploads are not working. All recent uploads are empty images that eventually time out. That sucks, cause I drew the image specifically for this question~

This is probably a better question for a journal, but I decided to draw something for it.

In Metal Gear Solid 5, the guy behind the game's director Hideo Kojima is actually inserted into the game.

Skip to 8:35 to see it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cghQZlSLWzU

I thought that was a kinda bad thing to do; it reminds me of inserting yourself into Sonic the Hedgehog fan-fiction; the joke goes something like: in (any) sonic fan fiction, the author shows up with the characters and is totally rad and cool, everyone likes him and wants to be him (or have sex with him). He's super powerful, god-like, and... well, it sucks.

But the insertion in Metal Gear Solid 5 is kinda cute/neat to me~
It makes me wonder if I was wrong with my idea of "any self-insertion of the author into their art is lame". I know an author's art represents the author to a degree, but to insert my self/person/avatar into Eve's world and have him totally creep on Eve, is totally not a good idea to me.

You can vicariously be inserted into the world/story with a secondary character representing you (maybe Eve's Master is MEEEE OoooWWWeeeeeooo!). But to be like, "I'm in the world, as I am, with my... everything, standing side-by-side the other characters" has always been lame.

Maybe you can do it right. And obviously wrong, 'cause all my previous author-inserting-themselves-into-the-story have been pretty lame. It's not like I'm researching it though. Maybe I just hit the bad ones way back when and never recovered.

Anyway, I thought I'd draw something and see if you've anything to say about self-insertion. ...No Eve, not that kind, but she is pretty clever/smart of men, isn't she...~

Keywords
male 630,629, female 511,439, cub 124,846, wolf 110,412, canine 87,123, anthro 61,951, human 45,741, question 446, stupid 318, anxiety 143, creep 58, anxious 58, freaking 47
Details
Type: Sketch
Published: 3 years, 1 month ago
Rating: General

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Kittery
3 years, 1 month ago
It's super duper hard to do it right. It basically has to be integral to the plot (like if the story is about multiverse theory or something) or if, because of the tone of the work, it ends up being played like more of a joke. With the latter though, you can't really seriously affect the story at all then. That kind of self-insert was done by Hussie in Homestuck and worked out pretty well!
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
If nothing else, it is hard to do right... at least I believe so~
SirBrownBear
3 years, 1 month ago
For me, self inserts only really work with quick jokes. In regards to purring yourself into a story, hard to say honestly.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Even for that, it seems lame to me usually~
kuniwolfox
3 years, 1 month ago
when i think of self insertion three example pop in my head
1st and possibly worst is sonichu(i won't go any further but if you know the story behind it you'll get it, if you don't,GOOD, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THAT ONE)
2nd is RUdragon on FA who draws himself sometimes in his pictures next to his character, they are very well done but do nothing but look pretty
3rd is IGA from castlevania fame and the new bloodstained game on kickstarter, he is in the game as a secret hidden boss, he does not advance the story in any way but it is him

personally i haven't seen story important self insertions done right, not saying they don't exist or can't happen but i haven't seen it
but in art as long as you are talented enough to make it look like you and your character(s) fit together it can be cool

EDIT: i use inkbunny downloader to archive images and after viewing the image it works for you
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
TOO LATE I looked up Sonichu; wow, that's some lame ideas/situations/art!~

And what do you mean it works for me? This drawing? I think it works for me since that's the question?~
kuniwolfox
3 years, 1 month ago
basically, i think you could pull it off, and good
thekzx
3 years, 1 month ago
Lol insertion
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
I know right~
LuDux
3 years, 1 month ago
All art is autobiographical. Anything any artist creates is from themselves, therefor of necessity has them in it.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
But to literally have a personified character that IS the author is one step more, I feel.
As I said, what an artist makes is a reflection of them; when I draw little Eve slaps, I am in support of brutality to little cute cartoon wolf cub girls... it's just who I am!
LuDux
3 years, 1 month ago
I think the dividing line is, whether or not it would be glaringly apparent to other people.
Zeikcied
3 years, 1 month ago
I don't really mind much when an author puts themselves inside a completely original work of their own, as long as it's a cameo and not as a major character.  Unless they themselves are involved in the story from the beginning for some reason.  Kojima putting himself as a cameo in MGS5 Ground Zeroes was kind of neat.  I didn't know about it before I finished that side-op a few weeks ago, so it was a nice surprise.  Now if he were to be one of Snake's allies in The Phantom Pain, that would be a little much, but I haven't read anything of the sort.  In fact, I've tried to avoid too many story details of TPP.

Self-insert fanfiction is the worst, though.  Because it often involves the author's persona being better than the official characters and/or becoming the love interest of their favorite character.  Sometimes I can forgive it if the art is hot enough, but even then I still get very annoyed.  I'm not necessarily talking about people who commission or draw art of their character paired with an official character from some various intellectual property, but rather when people write and/or create their own personal canon of those characters alongside their own OCs.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Maybe it's the fan fiction part that also drives it harder. If it's your own work, unless you point it out, people will probably miss it entirely.
Ryusett
3 years, 1 month ago
D: *hands eve a metal baseball bat* protect yourself eve one to the top head two to the lower one
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Oh, she's overreacting~
Caitsith511
3 years, 1 month ago
What no cookies?!
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Only the "idea" of cookies; to literally put cookies in the drawing would be lame~
Ibun
3 years, 1 month ago
When it comes to story-related things I think it's pretty difficult to do well. As others have said it can be good for one-off jokes or just in a comedic way in general. Personally where I feel it works best, though, is in more touching pieces, for lack of a better word. Something like if you were to draw your human self holding Eve as she sleeps. It wouldn't be anything canonical or story-based, just showing creator and creation together.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Usually when it's lame, it would be something like author-character being totally awesome and/or banging the other characters.

But doing lame things like cradling Eve, makes it cool and touching~
KrisProwler
3 years, 1 month ago
Self inserts get a bad reputation (and rightfully so I suppose) because the vast majority of people who use this technique ignore the one rule that makes something like that even remotely feasible. No matter the character, in a work of fiction they are in some way a reflection of our perception of reality as human beings. There is no such thing as true perfection in this existence, thus all characters, in order to be believable and likable, need to have both positive and negative points to their personality. A self insert can be done tastefully if you are acutely aware of who you really are and are willing to write yourself this way. Unfortunately, most people who use this more direct means of interaction with their art tend to use the romanticized version of themselves, that can do no wrong and solve all the problems with their mere presence. That kind of Mary Sue character is universally hated because such a person cannot actually exist.

Now, as furries this presents an interesting opportunity to get away with exactly that though. My main fursona, from whom I take my name, is essentially my self fursonified but with a few of my personal favorite attributes exaggerated. Here though it's acceptable because Kris exists independently of any overarching narrative where such exaggerations would stand out and because of the element of fantasy that is present in all of our particular subculture. She's the me I wish to be, but still real enough to be believable as a character and as an actual person.

... Anyway, ultimately, my point is that it can be done tastefully but it requires extremely high self-awareness.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Now I understand that term more (Mary Sue).
Cool, I learned more today~
KrisProwler
3 years, 1 month ago
Heh, happy to help. This kind of thing is actually how I was introduced to the term myself.
zyfer
3 years, 1 month ago
Depends on when he put himself in there. It might have been added later after Konamii pretty much got rid of him. If that's the case it's totally understandable to try and fuck with them. If it was added before then I can kinda understand it a couple different ways like possibly a place holder.

Usually characters like these are referred to as Mary Sue's from what I have heard of.
Zeikcied
3 years, 1 month ago
The clip Sloss is referring to is from a mission in Ground Zeroes, which came out last year.  I don't think Hideo appears in The Phantom Pain, but that doesn't come out until Tuesday.

As far as I know, the Kojima/Konami shit hit the fan at the beginning of this year.  It wasn't until March that they started removing Kojima's name and company from the MGSV:TPP promotional material.

Hideo (as the character is named) only appears briefly at the end of a side-op.  Well, technically you have to pick him up and carry him to an extraction zone, so he's there for longer than a moment, but you don't really know who he is until after you rescue him.  It shows a close-up of him, flashes his name "HIDEO," he thanks you, and then it fades to black.  The end.  And because it's a side-op, all of which may not be canon (no official word one way or the other), it's likely just an easter egg cameo.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
I didn't know it was from Ground Zeroes. And now I understand more of the term "Mary Sue" too, I wasn't 100% with it before.

I do think it was done cool-ly in Ground Zeroes, it was a neat self-insertion into his fiction~
zyfer
3 years, 1 month ago
Oh Idk. I've played a few MGS games and I get the general idea/storyline but I haven't played most of them nor really know the order in which they came out. As for the newer ones literally no clue D:
MelonVines
3 years, 1 month ago
Holy shit you look like Wolverine.
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
I just don't shave but once a week or two~

Otherwise, I'm sorry I tricked you that I look cool~
Aogami
3 years, 1 month ago
the type of self-insertion you're referring to where the author character has no real flaws and all the canon characters worship them and want to bone them is called a Mary-Sue (or Gary-Stu for males) and it's pretty frowned upon in most legitimate literary and art communities, though there are exceptions. For instance, Stephen King appears in his Dark Tower novels as himself, and it's quite well executed because he's portrayed simply as he is and not as some fantasized exaggeration of himself.

You'll find that kind of thing mostly in really bad fanfiction though, so if you stray away from that type of stuff most of the self-insert stuff will either be humor or not too terrible (or common). :)
Sloss
3 years, 1 month ago
Hmm, yes, I understand the term Mary Sue now more, I wasn't totally understanding it's meaning previously.

I've seen a humorous take on self-insertion that was purposely trying to be bad~
http://www.somethingawful.com/flash-tub/ultimate-sonic...
Kalibran
3 years, 1 month ago
See, but IRL Kojima *is* rad and cool and everybody (except his boss, apparently) likes hum.
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