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Yiffox

Your freedomz..stuff I've found out in last few days

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This is not meant to alarm anyone, but I have recently been made aware of certain facts and just wondering what you all think...mainly for Americans

these are actual facts, not conspiracy theories, that I will let you draw your own conclusions

FACT:  The 2012 National Defense Authorization Act has a clause within it allowing the President to indefinately detain any American citizen on American soil for being "belligerent" to the United States government, equating that with terrorism.

Obama said in public that he did not like this clause, yet his administration has three times gone to court to keep it as law (failing all three times, but still, they WANT this as a law apparently)

Why isn't the media screaming about this daily?  And this is just one of many laws that try to do the same thing that are put forth yearly almost now.

FACT:  Democrats are pushing heavily to remove any military capability from the populace by restricting the 2nd amendment (which was put in place to protect citizens FROM the military and militias, not for "hunting")

WEIRD FACT:  Saw a video on the Sandy Hook incident today which started this whole debate, where one of the father's of a child supposedly killed was literally laughing right before he went on camera, composed himself and put his cry on like an actor right before he went on air  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_b9hh2lp3I  I mean does that look real to you?  Now this DID happen, but then why are these fakes being put up?

FACT:  The original Obamacare laws mandated that every American would have a RFID (radio tracking chip) implanted in them by March 23, 2013  (From what I can tell this was removed from final bill according to Snopes.com, but WTF was it in there to begin with?)  Many private and schools are mandating such chips in ID cards or implanted in flesh.....now in at least half of states, such chips ARE implanted in any new Driver's licenses, where people within 20 feet can scan everyone in that area as to their identities...

BIG BROTHER?

REALLY SCARY FACT:  March 22/23 is the Satanic New year, according to the church of Satan.  (Also the equinox this year) and 3 months after Dec 21, 2012

Another Fact:  Skull and Bones emblem emblazens the number 322  3/22?

Yet another Fact:  the georgia guidestones, a scary monument was put up 33 (significant occult number) yrs ago from the date 3/22 in 1980 with what has been described as the satanic 10 commandments...the first one calls for a world population of 500 million people (6 billion people go where?) and then world religion and world government, etc

so lotsa weird stuff centering around March 22/23

Yet another weird side fact I discovered today:  On Dec 21, 2010 there was a lunar eclipse at 3:22 over Washington.  This appeared above the constellation Orion as a blood red moon. (decapitated head of Orion?  --havent even looked that one up yet---yeah I listen to this stuff, but always try to verify)  -+ one hour of that event there were earthquakes the world over.  notably 6.5 mag in japan and similar in Iran, but the whole world shook

Now I totally remember this event, because I was out in the woods fucking someone and they went Oh wow, red moon!  so yeah, but anyone remember news of worldwide earthquakes, no?  hmm

Now on a total sidenote....WTF, did anyone know there were giants in North America?  like a whole civilization (at least ruled by) 7-8 foot tall guys...I have NEVER heard of this before, why?  dunno...but yeah the mound builders in the Ohio valley were TALL and possibly blond/red haired...there is a "not accepted theory" that these people travelled along the northern ice packs into the Virginia area and spread out from there.  Then the asian american indians came and killed them all.  Their stone cutting tech is equivalent to tech in France at the same time.  so um European giants colonized America first?  look it up, cuz its hidden, PS - there's a gene sequence of europeans absent from asian present in American indians, so interbreeding too?  But anyone hear of giants in America ?? coverup?  cuz its a FACT  there are literally hundreds of findings of these 7-8' skeletons in mounds  

<for anyone who thinks I am making this up, either google it or ask for links...wikipedia even says most of this stuff--ps, the only comment on this so far on FA was about me fucking someone under the eclipse on Dec 21, 2010, go figure>

<edit 2 -- really appreciate you guys chiming in, cuz this is friggin scaring me - and go buy sum canned foods tomorrow?>

PS if you dispute any of these facts, look them up and dispute it, plz, would put my mind to rest, but Ive checked with snopes and other places b4 posting here

(EDIT)  I am not saying OMG the world is coming to an end, just that a lot of this stuff is suspicious and seems more than coincidental.  Basically keeping an open eye with any events that come out
Viewed: 132 times
Added: 11 years, 1 month ago
 
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
there's actually already concentration camps being put in place for supposedly belligerent citizens
my mom could talk both ears off about it -w-;
another thing, the government can LEGALLY take your things if you have a stockpile of anything. they can say theres a "shortage" and seize it without warrant or otherwise, particularly food, ammo and that
there was also a thing put in front of the UN summit, situation 21 or something like that
essentially its the relocation of all citizens *except a few* to population centers like cities, the remaining would be the farmers and such.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
does your mom know something?
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
she.....she spent quite a lot of time obscessing about the election XD she knows far more than....hell most people about the machinations of government. left or right, she's always been kinda spastic about it
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
really good for her, cuz as listed above, there seems to be a lot of crazy stuff going on....I mean I am shocked by it literally...I cant believe our president would fight in the courts for his right to indefinitely detain citizens without a trial???  wtf
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
*nods* and it goes faaaar beyond just that as well apparently
much of it's by executive order, congress is in the presidents pocket so he can pass whatever the heck he feels like. the system designed to limit itself, to make sure no one group has coopted too mcuh power has become unbalanced, and has severed its own head
pretty soon the body will die too
and if you're like my mom, you'll be prepared XD
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
eh went shopping today, got mostly canned goods and vodka XD
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
mom's been stocking up since the election -w- we're moving because of it
she's convinced shit's gonna hit the fan so we're moving to avoid the rush of people and that XD
she's not been wrong about any of her predictions *shrugs* and its not like we're really losing anything by moving. she works from home so she's set wehrever she goes XD
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
where are you moving to?  srsly, Ive considering buying water purification pills but not sure atm they would arrive in time
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
out west
we live in southern florida now. if shit hits hard, people will stream from the hugely densly populated east coast *seriously, look up a population density map, or better yet, the night time map of cities, its ridiculous XD* to the west. my mom's done ridoiculous amounts of research on taxes and population densiyt, and everythig anyone could possibly need to know about every possible state to move to.  if you want when she sends me emails about preping and stuff, i can forward them to you
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
yeah saw a map today, the best places to live due to year round crop harvest is florida and southern gulf coast
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
you'd be right, but can you guarantee that you'd be SAFE there?
assume nuclear disaster. florida's heavily poulated, and due to the wind from the ocean, nowhere is safe from fallout
assume food shortages, or martial law being declared
people would leave the cities, and head to where there aren't any cities, the midwest
most would stop at the mississippi river, or the appalachian mountains
now, because of the mass exodus, people will also need food. you have a farm in florida, with millions *literally* of people swarming past you. how can you guarantee you'd be safe from all of them? people could easily overwhelm you, take your food, kill you, anything they wanted
and at the risk of sounding racist, there's a lot of foreigners, cubans, mexicans, anyone who may not be very well off. they're FAR more likely to take what they need without so much as a by your leave.
so florida=bad place to be if shit goes sour
the place we intend to move has a huge geographical plus in its favor, mountains. lots of mountains
not only that, the area is the only green for many miles around XD it's perfect for crops and such
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
eh millions wouldnt be swarming...no gas...notice that US has been shutting down gas refining in last decade?  wut when the world needs more and more of it?
Rhuke
11 years, 1 month ago
exactly
stockpiling is good, stockpiling in a hazardous location, bad
hence the moving and stockpiling XD
Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
Those are some pretty serious claims.  Prove them.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
well look it up on the web...none of this is hidden...start with the National defense authorization act, posted the link to the Sandy Hook video in the journal that's just way suspicious, etc
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
You should show people your proof.  It saves time (everyone's talking about the same thing) and it supports your claims.  It's good practice for any discussion.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
well posted links to most stuff in journal or named sources, what do u want?  hmm?
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
In the original post, I only see your one YouTube link.  The question is, what do you want to show me?
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
I didn't know about the govt being able to seize stockpiles.  But about the camps, is this the FEMA Camps theory?
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
no another presidental order, they can sieze anyting in time of emergency, another gross recent violation of civil rights
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
So it's recent?  Now I don't know which presidential order the two of you are referring to.  I don't even know if you mean the same one or two different ones.
Yiffox
11 years ago
yes last year
Tai
Tai
11 years, 1 month ago
left pls
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
left?
Tai
Tai
11 years, 1 month ago
pls
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
um, dunno what your saying, what's on our left?  OMG FRIGGIN GOD ITS CTHULHU AND NYARLOTHOTEP!!!  ARGH
Tai
Tai
11 years, 1 month ago
its u
well and them
u and them become one being in the future
many cubs were raped or something
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
your virgins will be mine and your world will burn?
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
All your base are belong to us?
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
all your bases' virgins too!
Tai
Tai
11 years, 1 month ago
You can have
MistahToonCatUwU
MistahToonCatUwU

Take him pls
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
nom nom nom
PrysmTKitsune
11 years, 1 month ago
eh im a centreist myself, neither republicans or democrats have all the right idea on how to do things...and i personsaly am just gonna ignore it for the most part, thers precious little one wimp in bumb fuck nowhere can do...so i just sit, watch, and wait for the house of caruds our polititons are building to get hit by that stiff breaze....and the resulting shit storm that will follow it...im honestly amazed rich people havent started heading for the hills yet...there preoping for it, more and more of them are storeing almost all there wealth out of country...and it aint just to dodge taxes.
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
If the US economy were to crash it would take down the entire earth. Hell China already basically OWNS the US because of all our debt!
PrysmTKitsune
11 years, 1 month ago
actualy it wouldnt take everything out but it would cause a global depression , there are 3 other linch pin nations that would temporarily take up the slack while the country rebuilds itself from the ashes, but it would be a bad time indeed...china would colaps in on itself shortly after as a good chunk of the factories they have are from american companies, ited be like a set of dominos in the eastern nations after that...thered be dozens of revolutions, wouldnt surprise me if china splintered into several smaler nations, north korea would probly try and take advantage, do something stupid and get cratered by the un for it [lets face it, everyones just looking for a good reason to turn that country into a smokeing hole at this point]
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
Do I dare bring up the bible here?  it says the end times will be a battle between an army of an united Europe vs a 200 million man army out of the east.  (when written there were not 200 million ppl alive - ps says this will all happen one generation after israel becomes a nation again - go figure, as well as mountains of fire killing 1/4th the world population and poisoning 1/3rd the earth, which kills another 1/4th the population)

and really when I was a kid....I read this and knowing history said there would be a common currency for europe and then a united europe.  I was laughed at for saying this.  Now we have euros.
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
What bible are you reading???
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
uh the regular one?  seemed pretty clear it what it was saying when I was 7 yrs old.

Revelations
6: 8 1/4th population dies
8:1 30 minute silence in heavens, exact time it takes for ICBMs to hit
rest of chapter 8 1/3 of earth poisoned and destroyed, by mountains of fire, referencing stars falling from heaven, skies are darkened 1/3rd
9: 15-16 200 million man army out of east crossing over dried up euphrates river that kill another 1/3 of man
13:  the antichrist of 10 kingdoms and 7 kings makes a mark that all men must receive on head or hand to buy anything wiuth the mark 666  (UPC codes have that embedded for past decade)
17:  the whore of religion that sits in Rome ( 7 hills)  also alludes to the enemy being a world religion/political power lasting throughout time...those that persecute the jews, interestingly some people interpret the 7 kings...the 6th is, nero, the 7th maybe hitler?  and the 8th the antichrist is of the 7th....eugenics, world domination, occultism

eh thats my brief drunken overview of the revelations, there's more I missed, like couldnt find the boils part by glancing and didnt correlate daniel which depicts the end wars in greater details, as 2 wars, the first being a coalition of middle eastern powers vs israel who win (specifically mentions (from memory) jordan and egypt take no part, but includes turkey, iran, and islamic russian states)
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
well didnt really wanna turn this into rep vs dem debate.  I personally think both sides are complicit in whatever is going on.  Ron Paul seems to be the only one saying things, and his backers are actually targets by whatever is happening.  Even him and his son seem limited.

There's a lot more I didnt mention, that again I am only becoming aware of.  Really hesitant to be saying some of this, as I dont wanna seem like a crackpot..,....but umm...anyone notice the amount of occult symbolism in music and movies nowadays?  Back in the day, you only had such stuff going on with hard/heavy metal groups.  Now its in pop and even rap...rap?  rlly?  Look at any video now adays and look for 3 symbols....the pyramid...even in hand symbols....the all seeing left eye...and what looks like the OK symbol, which is a stylized merged 666...lady gaga is famous for putting this OVER her left eye
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p8u6peMLsrE/TaD4j90V80I/AAAA...
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4982283244012920&pi...  (note the 3 fingers making the 666 are cut off)
PrysmTKitsune
11 years, 1 month ago
SOmetimes peopel see things cause they 'want' to, alot of people think or even 'want' obama to be teh antichrist...why would they want such a thing, simple, if he 'is' it means that the end of days is coming and all good little christans get a go straight to heaven do not pass hell do not colect 200 sins card, and on top of that the pleasure of shouting at all the wittle people 'haha told you so' that got left behind, if he turns out 'not' to be...then they have to keep waiting for there 'god' to come and say hi...now im an agnostic, i dont beleave in anything i cant prove or disprove, so i stay out of that sorta debate for the most part [and to anyone who thinks agnostic and athiest ar the same thing...trust me, there not...an athieist would ignore proof there was a god if it was shown to him continuing to insist to the point of stupidity that it was impsoible, an agnostic accepts things that he or she views with there own eyes as truth...but doesn't take anything on another's word alone

as for sounding like a nut job...your in the furry fandom, were 'all' nuts in one way or another much as i like logic i still wish i was a nine tailed fox or a white angelic tiger...
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
some of the stuff Ive researched recently which I hesitate to mention....really...there seems to be a special message to the end time furry fandom...but then again, if you believe the things these ppl are saying, it adds WHOLE new slants to world history, hitler may have been partially right...the jews slaughtering canaanites may be totally justified, etc  its like WOW and no not prepared to say THOSE theories in public
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
My opinion is that the general public have no need or feasible reason to own any kind of full auto weapons or sniper rifles. I have no issue with the laws they are trying to pass concerning the regulation of those guns. However if they try to come for my shotgun then I am giving them hell! I know how to make Nitrocotton and nitrocelluose and I will use that knowledge!
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
Well the reason for the amendment was to protect oneself against the government and militia...as these people had just battled a government that tried to restrict arms...just looked it up, as again not taught this in history and never heard of these things before

http://www.davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/american-revolution...

the british were seizing powder and arms a full year before rebellion
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
That may be but there is still no reason for any civilian to own an AK-47, M16, AR15,  M60, or the like.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
so if the gov comes for you, you would rather have a shotgun?...reminder the outlaws can and will get any guns they want...we are only talking about legal ownership of guns
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
I'm not that paranoid. Besides, a hundred pounds of Nitrocelluose will make a Very nice crater.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
BOOM
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
Fully disagree about that!
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
yeah same, purpose of 2nd amendment was to enable citizens to defend themselves against the government, that is the reason for higher round weapons...

from V  ...the government should be afraid of the people, not the people afraid of the government
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
Not higher round weapons but higher accuracy at range, If I can hit my target with one shot I don't need a 30rd mag when I have the lightness and maneuverability of a 5 or 10rd. All in all it goes down to just skill over sheer firepower.
MistahToonCatUwU
11 years, 1 month ago
yeeeaaahhh about the sandy hooks thing, David Packmen show.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
wasat?  sandy hook happened, just some of the videos seem like actors rather than people who actually lost children
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
No shit, I called this shit like 7 years ago and got thrown out of school for it!
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
i showed my history teaching the prophecy about mountains of fire destroying 1/4th the world population and she said its open for "interpretation"
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
I've learned that the most "educated"people tend to be the most closed minded and in turn the dumbest to up coming issues. I think you might be right about the mountains of fire killing off 1/4th of the pop but I feel it will not be nature that sets it off but the government starting a war. Also I'm keeping my rifles ready, when the shit hits I'm prepped!
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
well the sad part is that the US doesnt seem to play a role in the end times, its Europe v China
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
.... Since when has america been able to keep its nose out of other peoples business?
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
also the massive prep for this, in zombie movies...How many of us have literally asked our associates, would u kill me if I "turned"....I know I have in the last six months alone...how depraved is that?
 
I think I saw that 90% of all zombie movies ever made  have been since 2001
RileyHyena
11 years, 1 month ago
I have no problem with that I have had all my friends promise me that if I got fat enough to be 300lbs to shoot me Zombification is nothing to deal with!
Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
I... Have no idea what you're talking about.  Where is this prophecy from?
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
scroll up, I listed the verses from Revelations, now those are just the prophecies from a casual scan of it while I was tipsy, so a more indepth reading would be better, and should be compared to Daniel prophecies which state actual names of countries involved (he lists the 2nd to last war of a coalition of islamic countries that invade israel and win (including if I remember correctly Turkey, Iran, and Southern Russian countries (stated by their ancient names, like Magog, gog, Persia, etc) they then invade Egypt and Libya but turn back to Israel to make a stand because of tidings out of the north (europe mobilizing) and get obliterated by fire from heaven in the Sinai pennisula on their way back (nuclear bomb?) so pretty detailed stuff, including rebuilding of temple, and the presumably european leader declaring himself god and setting up something in the temple to be worshipped (the abomination of desolation)
Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
Firstly, I would hardly consider any book of such advanced age and (mis)handling to be an even remotely legitimate resource.

Secondly, even if it was a reliable source of prophecies, said prophecies are themselves virtually always incorrect, even if you choose to ignore the probability that any true prophet/seer would say what he meant, and not phrase it differently than the actual fact(If he is a reliable prophet, and he says "fire from heaven", then there was FIRE FROM HEAVEN, not open to interpretation at all).

Thirdly, if the above points mean nothing, than you should indeed have refrained from paraphrasing text that you read casually while tipsy; the likelihood that you were accurate to the text is not great.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
pshaw...

the idea that the bible is mistranslated and inaccurate due to age is hugely discredited.  the dead sea scrolls prove this, showing that old testament sources written about 200 BC are virtually identical to what we have now.  earliest text always seems to confirm accuracy, so your assertion of age distorting text is wrong, considering a single error by the people copying it generally meant throwing the whole text out in practice, that is how serious they considered their job.

and no, the end times prophecies of revelations and daniel could ONLY occur now, and in fact, as time goes on, increasingly make it more probable.  Take for example it clearly depicts a nuclear war....I saw this when I was 13 yrs old.  Now its even more likely because it blantanly implies a united europe and an eastern power with 200 million man army will survive it.  Didja know Russia removed all its short range missles after chernobyl as it realize radiation could wash back over russia?  so nuke war happens, no missles hit europe, hmm...but yes it does state clearly an event that last 30 minutes involving mountains of fire and stars falling from heavens that destroy 1/4th the population, poisons 1/3rd the earth and water, and kills another 1/4th from said poisoning mentioning boils altho did not see that in my brief scan of the text, posted the actual verses saying this above.

and hate to tell you, but the old testament prophets in order to prove they were from god HAD TO BE TRUE...if they gave false prophecy, usual reaction by law was to kill them...so no nostradamous here....100% accuracy or die....maybe this is why so many bible prophecies have been fulfilled?

and no been reading this since i was a child, which is why i can pull it up so quickly by scanning text...the only thing i didnt find was the reference to boils, which is in there, just didnt find it on the quick scan
Lorakahn
11 years ago
You misunderstand me, I was talking about the New Testament.  I do not consider it to be a reliable historical resource.  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier...

Again, you seem to misunderstand me.  If these prophets and prophecies were indeed exactly accurate, then they would describe nuclear missiles in exact and precise terms, not metaphor.  They probably would use the modern names for countries, not the ancient names.  And I think that if they were good enough prophets to know which countries would be involved, then why on earth do they not mention the Americas?  The Americas, particularly the US, are major players on the world stage, and would certainly be highly involved in any global event, and there is not even metaphoric mention of them.  Also type better; if you're American, you should darn well represent your national language, and type in proper English.

Yiffox
11 years ago
Why do you assume that prophecies would use modern names and have intricate understanding of what is going on?  This is illogical.  If you showed someone in the past a movie of the history of World War 2, they would understand it visually, but not know the name for tank, but would describe it in their own terms, as that is how they would understand it.  So mountains of fire that destroy 1/4th the world population and poison 1/3rd of land, sea, and air, seems to accurately describe the results of a limited nuclear war

why aren't the americas mentioned?  Because they play no role.  This is either because the United states is destroyed (because if a limited nuclear war happened, the main targets would be Russia and the United States leaving Europe untouched (because guess what, short range nukes were removed a decade ago after Chernobyl proved nukes in Euro had a strong chance of blowing back radiation into Russia))
Lorakahn
11 years ago
The point I made about the untrustworthiness of the New Testament in general supersedes the issue of the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the prophecies, but, no, America would NOT be destroyed, and if we are, we will darn well make sure that we take every other nuclear-capable nation with us- Europe has at least three of them, and major ones at that.  Not to mention that boils are not a symptom of radiation poisoning.
Yiffox
11 years ago
hm, you say the new testament is untrustworthy, yet its prophecy is dead on as to what could happen, believed to happen not just to timing... one generation after Israel becomes a nation again, BUT also jewish belief that end times would occur 6000 years after creation (aka 1 day =1 1000 years and creation is complete in 1 week)  not only that but its the only time in history such prophecies could occur, such as 200 million man army out of east, mountains of fire destroying 1/3 the earth and killing 1/4th the population, that the whole world can witness events, these things could not occur in all of history till the 1950s.  Add to this the prophecy of a united europe made of strong and some weak nations, so not till 2000s, and then a one world religion (such as the Catholic church is increasingly moving toward, against christian belief, saying that all religions are paths to god.)

and you are wrong: http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/000026sym.htm  radiation symptons include blistering of skin, aka boils
Lorakahn
11 years ago
I cannot make heads or tails of this bit, please explain:  "believed to happen not just to timing... one generation after Israel becomes a nation again, BUT also jewish belief that end times would occur 6000 years after creation (aka 1 day =1 1000 years and creation is complete in 1 week)"
Yiffox
11 years ago
New testament says the end of days/arrival of the son of man (antichrist) will occur one generation after Israel becomes a nation again, given figuratively as the olive tree coming back to life.  

The Jewish prophecy is long held that the world will only last 7000 years or one week with days lasting 1000 years, with important events occuring along the midday range too, as night and day divide a day.

so 1st day god creates light and dark
4000 BC World created
3500 sunrise - nephilim are born, DNA corrupted (night)
3000 BC Enoch Born (day)
2nd day - waters are divided
2500 BC - FLood (night)
2000 BC yrs - Abraham (day)
3rd Day - Dry Land and plants created
1500 BC - Moses (night)
1000 BC - kingdom of Israel founded (day)
4th Day - Appearence of Sun, Moon and stars
500 BC - destruction of Israel  (night)
0 BC - Birth of Christ (god and holy spirit on earth, 2 great lights) (day)
5th Day - animals created
500 AD - fall of rome (night)
1000 AD - foundation of Catholic church/temporal power union (day)
6th Day - Man (age of?)
1500 AD - new world (night)
2000 AD new world order (day)
7th Day - rested
3000 AD millenium

events generally off (-+ decade)  like new world being 1492, and christ 6-4BC

while the events depicted werent known to the jewish people after 500 BC, they predicted the end times would occur around 2000 AD mirroring the creation week
 
Lorakahn
11 years ago
I'm sorry, did you just support your argument with the "young earth" theory?
Yiffox
11 years ago
eh kinda  XD  personally I think the earth is 12,000 yrs old, altho the more I learn, I'm rapidly condensing that to a younger age.

I do believe the bible is largely correct, just because of evidence...because one. evolution is a crock, to believe in that, one must believe in magic, so its a choice of magic vs an extradimensional diety created everything....considering anthropic principle, seems pretty clear I favor an intelligent creator....and this is a much broader conversation, which if u want to have, thats fine, but either in private or Ill make a webpage to host it...ie if the cosmological constant is off by like .0000000000000000000....0000002% the universe would never have formed (if you believe the big bang, which again I dont..again if you want to discuss that, see above)

my main question as to how young the earth is, is whether certain structures like the pyramids could survive the flood (which evidence says happened...choice there is whether you think a global flood occurred listed in the "mythologies" of nearly all human cultures or you think the earth froze entirely just before the cambrian period making global dropstones, so global ice or water, your choice?)

as far as age, seems largely contrived...initially based on wrong theories of uniformatism, that present processes formed all geological features at extremely small present observed processes, ignoring catastrophes, like its is becoming the general consensus that the grand canyon formed quickly from the outpouring of a glacial lake rather than incrementally from the colorado river...then evolutionists latched onto radiometric measures, because it offered far longer dates that allowed time for evolution to occur (theoretically)...however, these are formed within sedimentary levels bearing fossils, which means water is pouring through them, leaching out bones to replace them with minerals...so to assume that the radioactive material is exempt from this process is ...ummm....stupid?  so one would assume the missing material would depend on their solubility.  In any case, they are not closed systems....briefly looked this up...uranium is highly soluble while lead oxide is like 70,000x less than salt, but would need to look that up more closely)

so contrived?
Lorakahn
11 years ago
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=...

But please, explain to me how evolution is a "crock".  Tell me everything you know about it.  Don't bother to cite sources or back up your arguments with fact; things like "facts" and "proof" are the responsibility of my counterarguments, but we'll get to that after you describe evolution to me.
Yiffox
11 years ago
yes, explain to you what should be obvious and would take a book length to explain properly and then cite everything because I am untrusthyworthy in my information AFTER you show a comic claiming I'm an idiot, yush....so now I think you're a jackass XD and go widely offtopic to do so, so will write you a note
Lorakahn
11 years ago
The latter points you made had me stumped for a while- turns out I fell asleep in Earth Science class a little too often, as a friend of mine knew the exact answer:

"The dating of fossils isn't done through radioactive (carbon) dating. It's done using stratigraphy principles that allow you to estimate its age. Carbon dating is a process only used for dating magmatic rocks, not sedimentary ones, and it bases itself on isotope decomposition.

Sedimentary rocks are dated in a completely different way - if carbon dating was used on it, the results would be inaccurate or would only give you a time interval (ex: 65 to 55 million years ago) instead of a real "carbon dating".

Also, water doesn't leak through the sediment in the diagenesis process, it is already there in the first place, and as the sediments grow tighter together, the water is pushed out so that it becomes a solid rock, and the fossilized remains inside of the sediments wouldn't be "replaced", as they aren't carried by the water - the pores through which the water is pushed out of the rock as it consolidates are far too small for organic matter to go through them - only water is pushed out."


I hope that clears things up.

Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
That really isn't the reason for the second amendment.  
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
well yeah it kinda is....it stems from a right the british had not to be disarmed by James II in England (who was overthrown) and british trying to disarm and seize powder supplies to prevent their own overthrow in the US...so seems pretty clear it connected with the right to overthrow an unjust government and to protect oneself from said government, ie to form local militias (not state owned ones) to boot them out....and we had the revolution over I believe a 3% tax XD  (not really, it was a lot of other things too, like appointing state governments and destroying colonial trade in favor of british trade)
Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
Um...  no, not really.  I, uh, I really hate to break it to you, but:

The Real Reason for the Second Amendment, Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQPmZXCon68
The Real Reason for the Second Amendment, Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6REDpx_-lP0
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
ugh no...sorry...that guy is incredibly wrong....history shows that the 2nd amendment was as I stated a protection of individuals against the state...

not to keep slaves as you proport...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_Sta...  many northern states did not abolish slavery till the 1930s and 2 states did not till the lincoln mandate (NJ being one)

pst its as stated a carryover right from the english bill of rights of 1689 which also had a right to bear arms...so yeah...was that to enable slavery in ENGLAND?
Lorakahn
11 years ago
Wikipedia is fine for many purposes, but is not a reliable resource in a debate, nor for proof of stated facts.  However, letters, records of discussions, talks, lectures, and meetings of any kind, so long as they are reputable, as well as quotations from printed literature which can be traced to its original source, and court proceedings are all considered to be reliable and accepted in a debate, and Thom Hartmann uses pretty much only those sources in those two videos.  He is not some crackpot, he is a reliable newsperson who cites his sources.  His record is better than yours, in fact.  

As to the English Bill of Rights, the only section (statute?) that I saw that dealt with arms was "That the subjects which are protestants, may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law."  Which is only slightly similar to "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", and the "Militia" is indeed alive and well, and is called the National Guard, not "Dave at the bait shop with a closet of assault rifles"; I would hardly call that "well regulated", but I am getting away from your original statement of "Democrats are pushing heavily to remove any military capability from the populace by restricting the 2nd amendment (which was put in place to protect citizens FROM the military and militias, not for "hunting")"  I don't suppose you actually READ the second Amendment?  It was written to FORM the militia, which, again, is now known as the National Guard, which indicates, to my eye, that guns should only be held by those who know how to use them- persons who are trained and licensed, which is what democrats really want.  No one should die because Joe Bob doesn't know when the safety is off, or thinks that safeties aren't necessary- both of which would be corrected by proper training.  
Yiffox
11 years ago
so yes, you can see the right predates the bill of rights, why protestants are specifically mentioned, is that a Catholic king, James II, wanted to disarm them.  

While forming a militia was part of the reason, if you read the 2nd amendment, the right lies NOT on the militia to own arms, but the individual.  You are also wrong historically that the National guard, which is connected to the army proper as reserves, is not the same as the militia when it was written.  Then militia referred to town militias that individuals would grab their weapons and band to defend the town against Indians or whatever threat arose.  Considering the trend that the president can easily federalize the national guard, it is in fact, an arm of the government, not a local force and is no different from the regular army except for experience.
Lorakahn
11 years ago
I admit, I cannot remember where I heard/read that the National Guard was the eventual product of the "Militia" mentioned in the 2nd Amendment.  However, I implore you to prove your claims.  I shall lend them no credence until you do.
Lorakahn
11 years ago
I do NOT think that the word "protestants" is referring to religion.  I think it is meant to mean "those who protest the government", which would actually lend support to YOUR argument, not mine; I am being more than fair.  If, however, you are correct in thinking that it is indeed referring to the Protestant religion, then it bears no resemblance at all to our 2nd Amendment, and your argument is invalid.
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
Re Fact #1, so does the Patriot act.  I am as mad about the new stuff as I am about them renewing Bush era acts with such allowances.
Could you show us your source please so we can check for ourselves?

Re Fact #2, Sandy Hook happened and it was not an inside job.  This is just another one of the loonie conspiracy theories like 9/11 truthers, birthers, NWO alarmists, and so on who pick some famous event or issue and attention-whore over it.

Re Weird Fact, I would love to see some proof of that.

Re Fact #3, Completely false.  I've looked into this one and found it's total fabrication and scare-mongering.  Don't fall for that sh%t.  If they can't support it with some evidence, why are you buying it at ace value?

Re: BIG BROTHER?
Patriot act started the way down a slippery slope, i've been opposed all the way.

Re: REALLY SCARY FACT:  March 22/23 is the Satanic New year, according to the church of Satan.  (Also the equinox this year) and 3 months after Dec 21, 2012
There is no such thing as the church of satan.  Satanists are a invention of the christian faith as a way to depict any other religion as evil devil worshippers instead of people who have a different faith which they believe is good (exactly like christians feel about their own faith).  Anyone calling themselves the 'church of satan' is either a poe or a troll.  And think about it, why would someone who believes the christian narrative and characters choose to worship the devil and go to hell...does that make any sense to you?

Re: Another Fact: and Yet Another Fact:  
That's all a strawman.  It's this invented 'church of satan' group, with the same people inventing that group defining what their ten commandments and (un)holy dates are.  Also considering I have looked into this and neither 'satanist commandments' nor 22 March cropped up before Sandy Hook...that's pretty suspicious.
Or in other words, it's a fiction designed to make you scared, and the people writing the fiction can add to it to make as many coincidences as they want.

Re: <for anyone who thinks I am making this up, either google it or ask for links...wikipedia even says most of this stuff--ps, the only comment on this so far on FA was about me fucking someone under the eclipse on Dec 21, 2010, go figure>
The normal way to do this is for the person making the claim to back up their claim.  Why don't you show us the stuff that scared you?  If not to convince people then at least to save time.

<edit 2 -- really appreciate you guys chiming in, cuz this is friggin scaring me - and go buy sum canned foods tomorrow?>
It's meant to scare you.  Scared people react emotionally rather than stopping to think and check.  Next time, when someone makes such a shocking and unbelievable claim, go check with independent sources to see if there's any substance behind it.

Re <PS if you dispute any of these facts, look them up and dispute it, plz, would put my mind to rest, but Ive checked with snopes and other places b4 posting here>
Done.  Most like the 'church of satan' stuff and patriot act stuff long before we met.  

Don't worry, I know it's easy to get swept up in such stuff and run with it on fear instead of stopping to check.  And I can see why you'd want a whole bunch of people to come calm you down and try to show you how all those 'facts' are fiction.  

Though, yeah, the patriot-act-continuation stuff worries me too.




Lorakahn
11 years, 1 month ago
Beautiful, thanks for writing all this.  I suppose we can always count on you, can't we?
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
Thanks.  ^_^
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
he;s in austrailia, so no...and not patriot act, national defense authorization act 2012, look it up
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
Thanks for the name, now I can look it up and I will.  Meanwhile you check the current state of the patriot act.

Being in Australia doesn't hinder my following US politics.  And you should remember why I follow Australian and American politics.  I also follow European politics, by the way.
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
The Patriot Act was good in spirit but like most all laws, that spirit was lost in the letter of the law.

I'll believe in 'The Church of Satan' when I join the 'Cult of Foamy' and the 'Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster'

Fact 3: RFIDs CAN be used but are not small enough to hide inside of a License. On top of that, putting it inside of a person will cause the body to react and try to destroy it. When that fails the tissue will develop a VERY obvious abscess, thus making RFID chips impossible to implant long term.

In closing, I still support gun control of assault weapons because there is NO VALID (read non-paranoid) reason to own anything like an AK-47 or other large ammo capacity weapons.

In short, thank you for shining a ray of sound logic into this.
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
Arguably the Patriot act was borderline in its time due to the situation, but it shouldn't have been continued on and on.

Same about the fictional churches.

And same about the RFID.  

My prediction was they'd do a state-based attempt at gun regulation and that'd doom it to a cluster f%ck of small scale failures.  If nothing else, even the standard "I can't buy a gun in my home state so i'll drive over the state line and buy one there" problem.

And you're welcome.
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
Oh I agree. The Patriot act should have been a short term.
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
agreed. but they have made it sooooo much worse in following yrs...maybe seeing what they could get away with?
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
It started bad, got worse under Bush and yet worse under Obama.  

I didn't particularly mind Bush extending it...it happened under his watch (9/11 too), but see no cause for Obama to have continued and expanded it.
Yiffox
11 years ago
well we have a 150 yr old law called the posse commitatus act here...no military forces or federalized national guard shall enforce federal laws....course that's probably been violated a few times...thinking civil rights...but its getting far worse, I know actual army troops were used in pittsburgh g20 summit to suppress rioters "aka peaceful protesters"
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
Not talking about Patriot act but recent laws...as stated

Church of Satan has been around since 1960s and is recognized by the gov, so....um ....not really fictional, founded by Anton Le Vey etc

RFID, geez, i can pull up tons of videos on this...do you even look this stuff up before saying it doesnt exist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1I0UBRUK0  ron paul 3 yrs ago just discussing putting RFID chips in ID cards, half of the stats NOW have one, im getting my renewal in Ohio which (I dont think has one, florida DOES)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/microchip.asp  <--it was planned as said
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
Hm, no the Patriot act I dont think was good in spirit at all...spying on US citizens without warrant?  violation of constitutional rites

wow, I am amazed that no one knows the Church of Satan exists?  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan  been around for 44 yrs  wake up people

3 - RFID in licenses....see REAL ID act passed by congess 2005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act  although nearly half the states are opposing it, many states now have RFID chips in their licenses including Michigan, Minnesota, Vermont, Washington, and Arizona..hard to say who does and does not, as it seems hard to look up on the web
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
Point three: WRONG. It was proposed but was NOT included. All I had to do was do a page search for RFID and found that out in two seconds. Nice try.
Yiffox
11 years ago
ummm read up in comments, RFIDs in PEOPLE was written, but not included, RFIDs in drivers licenses is what is being talked about...some states went gung ho, some did not, but its really hard to find out if your state has one in it
Fira
11 years ago
Still wrong. Real ID was talking about putting RFIDs in your license. That provision was never put into action. Also it is EASY to make an RFID scanner and even easier to destroy an RFID.
Yiffox
11 years ago
so the 4 states that immediately put it into action via search are WRONG? 5 yrs ago?
Yiffox
11 years, 1 month ago
1. No I dont think so, that did not pertain to American citizens AND did not qualify it as merely making it being belligerent to the gov as a crime worthy of indefinate detention without trial

2. Yes, I said Sandy Hook happened, but did you look at the video posted?  a supposedly bereaved father, who lost a child in the event, is shown laughing just before he gets on camera, then composes himself, puts his sad on and delivers his speech (prewritten since it seems he's an actor)  you be the judge...it was noted the day this happened, that obama cried alligator tears, I totally called that, just thinking it was a fake sentiment by a ploitician...he wiped the tear from the opposite corner of the eye that tears form at (outside corner of eyes) and just totally seemed fake...now maybe it plays in that more was faked than known?  as far as weird fact, i posted link to video, YOU watch it and tell me if thats a father who just lost a child?

3. Here http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/microchip.asp  this is saying exactly what I said from a debunking site...it WAS planned, but may have been removed from current bill passed

4. Anton LeVay founded the Church of Satan in the 60s, sorry you dont think it exists :P  Satanist commandments is something PLACED on the 10 rules enscribed on the Georgia guidestones, an actual monument you can go and see.  Put in place March 23, 1980, so well before any of this.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones  Some believe Ted Turner is responsible for them, but its anonymous so anyones guess, but the first rule says human population should only be 500 million, which means 6 billion people need to die

5. March 21, 2010....it didnt scare me, i thot it was cool...fucking someone in the woods under a lunar eclipse that showed a blood red moon, didnt find out about the earth quakes till 2 days ago  
Cuba:  http://repeatingislands.com/2010/03/21/earthquake-stri...
Japan:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/21/japan-earthqu...
  (odd this one, there have been big quakes in Japan 2010, 2011, and 2013 on this date...wonder if one occurred on 2012 too?)
Iran  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/20/iran-earthqua...  --another odd looking, another big quake in Iran on March 21, 2013 hmm?

and yes patriot act sucks, but I was speaking of the act named above, the national defense authorization act which made it legal to put US citizens in jail without charges or trial indefinitely for being belligerent to the gov....thats way more scary than anything before
ThisIsAlanB
11 years, 1 month ago
Can you use something other than Snopes? http://blog.seattlepi.com/viewfromthebleachers/2011/03...

Oh and the Church of Satan exists, yes. But the belief is that they there is no god/gods, nor there is no satan (unlike the belief that you have to worship Satan to be in the church)

" The Church of Satan does not "worship" or believe in Satan, nor do they believe in gods. LaVeyan Satanism follows the belief that one self is their own "God". They do not believe in suppression of desire and human nature. In an interview with David Shankbone, High Priest Peter Gilmore stated "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in the Devil or God, they are abdicating reason,".[17] Gilmore defines the word "Satan": "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions."[17]
Gilmore went on to add "Satanism begins with atheism. We begin with the universe and say, 'It’s indifferent. There’s no God, there’s no Devil. No one cares!'"
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
Is this the group that teach humans should think for themselves from all deities and that the christian god made them as worship-bots, who satan set free (and incurred gods wrath)?  Interesting that they'd call themselves 'satanists' after their emancipator when the main message is don't be cattle for any gods.
ThisIsAlanB
11 years, 1 month ago
You are right. That is what the "Church of Satan" is about. You are basically you're own god.
Yiffox
11 years ago
well actually kinda wrong...they say not only that you are your own god, but screw everyone else, their motto is do as you want, (and screw everyone else) which draws upon rather dark things from aleistor crowley, who brags about killing and molesting children, saying bright young boys have the most power to be claimed

wow trying to look this up...came upon a connection between crowley and Kinsey (the guy who did the sex studies in the 50's that normalized aberrant behaviors- quote from him)

"Kinsey's promotion of children as sexual objects for adults to consume is of a piece with Crowley and the whole concept of satanic human sacrifice. Clearly, we sacrifice our children when we engage in sex with them. Those who do it, know it.

"Pedophilia, or more commonly, pederasty, is a form of human sacrifice. Anyone who assaults a child sexually knows they are not only killing that child's soul, but some would say, from a psychotherapeutic perspective, they are turning that child into a dysfunctional, self-destructive individual, and they know the child-victim will also act out on other children, perhaps hundreds, the rest of his life, and so the human destruction is perpetuated.

"Kinsey visited Crowley's lair or 'abbey' in Sicily, as a pilgrim who goes to a religious place of holy worship. Crowley, we know was involved in ritualistic sacrifices of various kinds, including the ritualistic sexual abuse, and deaths, of children. Kinsey went to Crowley's lair to adore Crowley's images of people in copulatory positions.

"Kinsey's promotion of children as sexual objects for adults to consume is of a piece with Crowley and the whole concept of satanic human sacrifice. Clearly, we sacrifice our children when we engage in sex with them. Those who do it, know it.

"Pedophilia, or more commonly, pederasty, is a form of human sacrifice. Anyone who assaults a child sexually knows they are not only killing that child's soul, but some would say, from a psychotherapeutic perspective, they are turning that child into a dysfunctional, self-destructive individual, and they know the child-victim will also act out on other children, perhaps hundreds, the rest of his life, and so the human destruction is perpetuated.
"Kinsey visited Crowley's lair or 'abbey' in Sicily, as a pilgrim who goes to a religious place of holy worship. Crowley, we know was involved in ritualistic sacrifices of various kinds, including the ritualistic sexual abuse, and deaths, of children. Kinsey went to Crowley's lair to adore Crowley's images of people in copulatory positions.

"Kinsey's promotion of children as sexual objects for adults to consume is of a piece with Crowley and the whole concept of satanic human sacrifice. Clearly, we sacrifice our children when we engage in sex with them. Those who do it, know it.

"Pedophilia, or more commonly, pederasty, is a form of human sacrifice. Anyone who assaults a child sexually knows they are not only killing that child's soul, but some would say, from a psychotherapeutic perspective, they are turning that child into a dysfunctional, self-destructive individual, and they know the child-victim will also act out on other children, perhaps hundreds, the rest of his life, and so the human destruction is perpetuated.

"Kinsey visited Crowley's lair or 'abbey' in Sicily, as a pilgrim who goes to a religious place of holy worship. Crowley, we know was involved in ritualistic sacrifices of various kinds, including the ritualistic sexual abuse, and deaths, of children. Kinsey went to Crowley's lair to adore Crowley's images of people in copulatory positions.
Yiffox
11 years ago
(cont)  "Kinsey's promotion of children as sexual objects for adults to consume is of a piece with Crowley and the whole concept of satanic human sacrifice. Clearly, we sacrifice our children when we engage in sex with them. Those who do it, know it.
"Pedophilia, or more commonly, pederasty, is a form of human sacrifice. Anyone who assaults a child sexually knows they are not only killing that child's soul, but some would say, from a psychotherapeutic perspective, they are turning that child into a dysfunctional, self-destructive individual, and they know the child-victim will also act out on other children, perhaps hundreds, the rest of his life, and so the human destruction is perpetuated.

From a religious perspective, that is a satanic act. My view is not religious, but I see that interpretation."

what does crowley have to do with anton le vey's church of satan?  well he plagiarized 1/3 of his book of satan directly from Crowley

http://occultlibrary.info/aleister-crowley-and-modern-...  <--occult site
Stumpycoon
11 years, 1 month ago
About #1, see below.

About #3, Snopes is saying it's all a scam/hoax.  Like I said.  Someone made the claims, which Snopes is debunking.

About #4, like I said, poe's and trolls.  These aren't 'devil worshippers' as some would have you believe.  It's like the church of the flying spaghetti monster and the church of the invisible pink unicorn and the church of the flying teapot.  It looks like Anton LeVay did some epic trolling of christianity...he did a brilliant job, and made a lot of christian priests look like insecure panicked loonies.  Look how insecure in their faith he made them look...and he did it using their scapegoat-story.  LOL, brilliant!

About #5, regions with fault lines experience a greater frequency of earthquakes.  Also, based on the richter scale, seismic events that a human can't feel count as 'earthquakes' and so I find it hard to be impressed by that.

About the national defense authorization act, now that you've named it I can (and need to) research it further.
Yiffox
11 years ago
1. well wikipedia says the controversy quite clearly, but what isnt stated there is that obama said he opposed it, but went to court 3 times to support his right by law to put US citizens in jail without trial or charges if they are belligerent to the US ie protesters....correlate that with democrat statements declaring tea party protestors as racist and terrorists and other statements from administration saying any conspiracy theorists should be denied free speech rights...

3.   no not a scam, it was *IN* first 2 bills, but removed from passed bill, but it was intended...which tells one of their agenda,no?

4. the church of the spighetti monster dont hold ceremonies, have active congregations, etc...this is a real church not a lolz thing, so...um wrong?  they have books, history, and are recognized by the courts to be a real religion

5. yush yush, earthquakes are common, however, multiple earthquakes worldwide within the same hour as a lunar eclipse ON the solstice with the Moon in Orion appearing as a bloody decapitated head?  and I SAW THIS...(sex in the woods, muahah, at 3am) first lunar total lunar eclipse on a solstice since 1638...so worlwide earthquakes AND a 1/400 yr event at same time, all within 2 hrs
Fira
11 years, 1 month ago
About the NDAA: You are wrong again. It actually has a provision to STOP that. It expressly states that, and I am quoting here,  "An authorization to use military force, a declaration of war, or any similar authority shall not authorize the detention without charge or trial of a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States apprehended in the United States, unless an Act of Congress expressly authorizes such detention." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authoriz...
Yiffox
11 years ago
Fira
11 years ago
Invalid law. That was valid for 2012 only. NDAA gets redone every year. Current, and valid, version does NOT have that provision.
Yiffox
11 years ago
granted but it shows a pattern...we are looking at patterns here, what *they* want to do...

so NDAA 2013  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authoriz...  even more insidious yet....

1. they proposed an amendment correcting these flaws, saying citizens shall not be arrested, etc, DROPPED

final version...it says citizens shall not be deprived of their right in court

yet as lawyers point out...no guarantees you ever get to court...and continues authorization for indefinate detention on american soil against the constitution, which one could contest, IF THEY EVER GET TO COURT  XD
Fira
11 years ago
No it does not. Read again. It states EXPLICITLY that they CAN NOT detain any citizen without due process.
Yiffox
11 years ago
btw, u know obajerk has other rules put in place now that he can shut down the interwebs solely cuz he wants to...r u gonna defend that too?
Fira
11 years ago
He can try. China has been trying for YEARS.
Yiffox
11 years ago
there is no try, if he declares a national emergency, he can shut down radio and television, that's been in place for years, the emergency broadcast system, they literally have hardware where they take it over.

Now the president can declare martial law in the face of a real or manufactured emergency and congress couldnt do anything about it for six months.  He can shut down the internet by calling the 4-5 main internet companies according to CNN and tell them to shut down routing, I wonder if there is a system in place to already do that ?  but under martial law, i doubt those companies would refuse or else someone would be in a FEMA camp, hehe
Yiffox
11 years ago
" but since there are no rules in place to exercise this right, detained U.S. citizens currently have no way to gain access to lawyers, family or the court itself once they are detained within the military.  accordingly to legal objectors, guess theyre wrong too  did you read the whole thing and people objecting to it?  adn thats just wikipedia
Fira
11 years ago
Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
Yiffox
11 years ago
says who?  facts are facts no matter where they come from, and everything is supposed to be cited on their....and its been proven its more accurate than encyclopedias, so leave your biases at home XD  if something states there is wrong, fine say so, but a fact is a fact no matter where it comes from
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
" facts are facts no matter where they come from
Okay. So next time I want to argue with someone, I'll use Encyclopedia Dramatica or Conservapedia to get "facts"
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
Or edit the wikipedia page and use these cites (or a homemade site) as a source for Wikipedia.
Yiffox
11 years ago
eh have you tried to do this?  such things get removed quickly if you cant support things by sources etc...hence credibility
Yiffox
11 years ago
wikipedia cites sources, do they?  no..
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
" and everything is supposed to be cited on their...


Scroll down on the page and see all those links. Cited. And I've seen pages that have had things like "This band sucks" on it for months. And don't you know that most colleges don't allow you to use Wikipedia as a source when you are doing a research project for instance unless it involves Mathematics or certain other subjects. Take a Civics class and they will tell you that you aren't allowed to use Wikipedia as a source.
Yiffox
11 years ago
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
A point I'd like to make is the fact that you are both right and wrong on

" FACT:  Democrats are pushing heavily to remove any military capability from the populace by restricting the 2nd amendment (which was put in place to protect citizens FROM the military and militias, not for "hunting")


You are right that a portion of Democrats (not all of them if you've seen the numbers on how many did not want the assault weapon ban when the bill got put down in congress) does not want us to have military weapons. But there is a reason for this. When is the last time that the citizens of America had to fight the government with weapons? It would've been at least civil war times. And do you think that our overpowered military would follow the government and let the government kill they're friends and family?

Going into the hunting thing, why would Democrats want to classify assault weapons as hunting rifles? People are calling weapons like the AR-15 (the weapon used in Sandy Hook) hunting rifles because they want to show Congress that assault weapons have "important uses" that aren't killing people/used for collective purposes.
Yiffox
11 years ago
The american people have not fought back since the civil war on a large scale, true, but let's look at how often the military has attacked the american people?  

Remember posse comatatus act says the military and federalized national guard can perform law enforcing duties on american soil....

but offhand, I'd say Kent State where they shot protestors and most not known, the Bonus army of 1933.  Retired WW1 vets marched on and encamped around washington DC demanding their bonuses they had not received, Douglas McCarther under orders of the president used tanks on them to remove them from the city, several people died.  And more recently, army troops were used to remove a peaceful protest of the g20 in pittsburgh a few years ago

so yes, I believe the military would attack US citizens, because they have done it before
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
I looked up what happened in pittsburg with g20 and nope. The police got involved but no actual military officials were even there. The riot police was wearing camo, but just because someone wears, camo doesn't mean that they are the official US Army or anything of the sort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_G-20_Pittsburgh_summit
Yiffox
11 years ago
eh saw the videos, they had military patches on their uniforms and people were calling them out over it
Fira
11 years ago
If you hate all this stuff so much then please, enjoy one of the best rights the US gives you, the right to LEAVE.
Yiffox
11 years ago
have to have an RFID chipped passport to do that XD  and why do people like you always make that argument....the right to protest against things the government is doing wrong is an agent of change...

so why do you want to shut down protest and drawing attention to bad things, by telling those people to leave?
Fira
11 years ago
Not telling you to leave and not trying to shut you down. Just saying that if you hate it all so much then move somewhere else. It is common sence. If you don't like the cold you do not move to Alaska or Canada. If you do not like what the us government, an agent made up of the people of the us, the enjoy the best right that we have over China.No one is making you stay here. If you hate the systrm so much then run for office and make the changes yourself. Everybody who has disagreed with you has been shut down or ignored, despite having more than sound logic. You have made it totally clear that all you are interested in is fear mongering on a scale that China and, and i can't believe i am about to invoke Godwin's Law, Hitler would be proud of.

Unless you are willing to accept the facts and logic presented by others as being equal with your own then you are no better that the people you are bashing. That is the core of a good and respectful debate, fair and open discussion of ideas where all are given equal merit until proven good or bad.
Complex
11 years ago
" Fira wrote:
Not telling you to leave and not trying to shut you down. Just saying that if you hate it all so much then move somewhere else. It is common sence. If you don't like the cold you do not move to Alaska or Canada. If you do not like what the us government, an agent made up of the people of the us, the enjoy the best right that we have over China.No one is making you stay here. If you hate the systrm so much then run for office and make the changes yourself. Everybody who has disagreed with you has been shut down or ignored, despite having more than sound logic. You have made it totally clear that all you are interested in is fear mongering on a scale that China and, and i can't believe i am about to invoke Godwin's Law, Hitler would be proud of.

Unless you are willing to accept the facts and logic presented by others as being equal with your own then you are no better that the people you are bashing. That is the core of a good and respectful debate, fair and open discussion of ideas where all are given equal merit until proven good or bad.


If I may just add something Fira, many people have different ideas about what the US stands for so if Cobra doesn't agree with some of the things it's government is doing, it's not a simple matter of up and leaving or being ok with it just because those people have the same nationality as you. Short of running for office as you mentioned I think he's done well as far as putting his thoughts on the table in a public forum.

While I don't agree with everything he said to compare his actions to Hitler and China is simply laughable Fira.

I think the whole point of a debate is because people don't believe the other's facts and logic is ideal to their own Fira, while I think you have given good proof to support you claims, overwhelming evidence or argumentation is needed to prove your claim to someone, otherwise debates usually end up with no resolution and serve as a complete waste of time.    
Fira
11 years ago
I do agree with your statement about debates. however there are far better places to have put this debate. Also neither side has provided evidence that can sway the other side. However i have shown valid evidence to defend my points and opinions.  So i am satisfied.
Complex
11 years ago
" Fira wrote:
I do agree with your statement about debates. however there are far better places to have put this debate. Also neither side has provided evidence that can sway the other side. However i have shown valid evidence to defend my points and opinions.  So i am satisfied.


Having enough evidence to defend your stance is just half of the equation Fira, You also need to be able to provide enough evidence to bring the other person to your view of thinking or atleast acknowledge it as an equal and credible viewpoint, or the debate simply ends in stalemate and does not fulfill it's intended purpose, atleast for me.

But, now we're dealing with the philosophy of debate, and very few things in philosophy can be reduced to complete objectivity.
Fira
11 years ago
I am not trying to convert people to my view. I was simply stating and then defending my position. But i agree., we are starting to discuss the spirit of debate which is getting off topic.
Yiffox
11 years ago
you misunderstand, I think this is the best system there is...the problem is that it does not respond to the people much anymore...would anyone say in their right minds that the president should be allowed to shut down the internet, declare a state of emergency which congress cant regulate for 6 months, put chips in people with RFID GPS tracking links to bank accounts,  declare maritial law cuz he says so...none of that is the will of the people, but all of this has passed or been put forth to become law in the last 3 yrs alone...that is what needs to be shown to the people and fought against, so are you for that or do you stand against it?
Fira
11 years ago
I wish the government all the luck in the world trying to pull any one of those things off. They would have NOBODY to enforce it. That is why they will never do any of the things you are talking about. Nobody will enforce any of it. If they try to shut down the internet then Anonymous will just hack whatever system they use and get it back up. They try to implant the RFIDs and no doctor will do it (not to mention that the human immune system would reject the chip. So the only long term way to keep it inside a person is AIDS or Chemo to kill the immune system.) Declaring martial law can only be done in war time. None of this will ever happen because no human will ever stand for it, regardless of what the president or anybody else orders. As for your question? I support our Government because I believe that people should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of it's people. I choose to trust the government because I can find no logical reason not to. Do i think it is corupt? Yes i do. But it is the best we have for now and I have to accept that it is corupted to the point that words are meaningless to the government and have been for the better part of 40-50 years. The only things I stand against are fear mongering and lies.
Yiffox
11 years ago
1933 mccarther attacks US ww1 vets protesting not getting their promised bonuses  WITH TANKS

do I need to say anything more?

ps there have been numerous implantations of RFID chips across the nation voluntarily, so its already been done. (and yush there is some evidence they could be detrimental to health aka cancers in mice) but hey when you can track everyone, who cares about YOUR risk

and no martial law can now be declared via presidental mandates by him just saying there's an emergency, altho to be political, I would assume a president would manufacture a crisis first, just like sandy hook is appearing to be to get rid of citizen ownership of guns...

latest newsez...police kills 3, is burned out of home, military guy kills three...do we see any call to get rid of guns for police or military, um no...because it doesnt disarm the public
Fira
11 years ago
Yes you need to get your facts right. Nobody was attacked with tanks. The tanks were used as show of force. No shells were fired. The four vets that died were killed by police gun fire.

Those were put in willingly and therefore do NOT support your argument. Also all you have to do is look at the rejection rate of any kind of artificial joint or body part to see that long term implanting of an RFID is not possible. The body will reject it and it will try to destroy it. When that fails the next step in the body's reaction is to form an abcess to isolate the foreign matter and and continue the attempt to destroy it. At that point it becomes a major health rish to keep the chip in as the abcess can develop into full blown sepsis and kill within days.

But i suppose next you plan to tell us that the little black helicopters are real and that Area 51 is working on making a Death Star in the shadow of the moon.
Yiffox
11 years ago
srsly?  yes rfid CHIPS  have a health risk...how many are implanted in dogs RIGHT NOW?   yes, you can track your lost dog, oh joi...

and no you are wrong, look it up, 1933 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army#Police_shooting  they sent tanks, gas, and Patton etc.  some people including a 12 yr old boy probably died from the gas.  This was instrumental in Hoover being removed from office, however his replacement did not do any better in their legitimate demands, he just didnt send in the army.

so are you justifying the 12 yr old killed also?
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
Read the article again. They were using tear gas and it was a 12 week old (not year old). Of course and infants lungs aren't developed enough to withstand tear gas. It's the parent's fault that someone so young would be there in the first place. And I love you're quote
" some people including a 12 yr old boy PROBABLY died from the gas.
These things and your shitty spelling and grammar doesn't help with this debate at all.
Fira
11 years ago
I did read it. Show me anywhere that it says the Army fired ONE shot.
Yiffox
11 years ago
dude, Patton brought tanks on American soil....reminds one of Tiananmen Square, but in America.  Several people died....what does it matter how?
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
Tanks were there yes, but none of them fired. Only the police fired, once again with tear gas (which isn't lethal). And once again, this happened 80 years ago, which proves irrelevant when talking about our military now. Please quote where they did fire lethal rounds and that multiple people were killed instead of just saying it happened.
Yiffox
11 years ago
and when you have a tank, you don't need to fire shells...you can just run over things

so long term implanation of RFID chips in dogs is made up too I suppose?  Um, my dog has one in it
ThisIsAlanB
11 years ago
Once again, where does it say that they killed people at all except the 12 month old? Btw, I know you don't have a dog.
Yiffox
11 years ago
"If you must fire, do a good job--a few casualties become martyrs, a large number an object lesson," said Patton. "When a mob starts to move, keep it on the run...Use the bayonet to encourage its retreat. If they are running, a few good wounds in the buttocks will encourage them. If they resist, they must be killed."

 MacArthur's men charged the marchers and a large number of spectators alike. "Men and women were ridden down indiscriminately," reported the Baltimore Sun. "The mad dash of these armed horsemen against twenty to thirty thousand people who were guilty of nothing more atrocious than standing on private property observing the scene was bitterly commented on by spectators."

Patton seemed particularly satisfied by the bedlam he observed from his horseback perch. "Bricks flew, sabers rose and fell with a comforting smack, and the mob ran," he wrote. "Once, six men in a truck threw a regular barrage of bricks, and several men and horses were hit. Two of us charged at a gallop, and had some nice work at close range with the occupants of the truck, most of whom could not sit down for some days."
renerechie79
11 years ago
i hope this dont come to pass  
RileyHyena
11 years ago
No it won't, least not for a while. Too many countries still like the USA, but I have a feeling withing the next 10 years shit is going to hit the fan. It won't be because of some mess up during the execution of a well thought out plan but because some dumbass terrorist with a dirty bomb or dictator with a pretty red button hes been dieing to try detonates a nuke in or over another country and fingers start pointing at each other; then all the petty squabbling will stop about who's right and who's wrong and Americans will do what they do best and wage war.
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