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Kupok

Denver, The Furry Raiders, Antifa, Bronies and YOU.

by
The dust begins to settle after my convention, my local con I've staffed at for a very long time, collapses like a jenga tower on a hill. Online, Everyone flared, had their moment of frustrated venting, and then have withdrawn back into their isolated communities.

THE PAST
So what happened? There are 5 journalistic accounts, and all five of them omit details or include opinions and details the other do not, each pushing for their own narrative. From my own perspective, I can safely believe the following things.

* The Furry Raiders are a current, ongoing local problem. Symbolism aside, they endanger fur's ability to function in public, and harass and intimidate those outside their circle.
* No matter how annoying any movement, fandom, or subculture is, the anti-movement, anti-fandom or anti-subculture that moves against it always somehow manages to be even more annoying or worse. Lauren Faust's My Little Pony is a perfect example of this.
* People change. Scorch and Kahuki were some fairly awesome people at one point. But... when a person becomes radically different from how they once were, we shame the bond we once had by protecting or enabling decent into madness. No matter what I may have thought about Scorch and Kahuki 10 years ago, That letter could not have been written by the people I once knew.
* Deo is not as innocent as she and some think. Yet the obsessive focus on her by Scorch and the Raiders is unnerving at best.
* The tax thing actually has little to do with the convention's collapse.
* I personally feel that worse then all that, Everyone outside of denver is hijacking this event to push their agenda hard. Super Righty Furs are making an obsessive focus on Deo, discarding the lunacy that had become Scorch or the things the Raiders has actually done. Super Lefty Furs are latching onto The Furry Raider's surface symbolism while ignoring the things they actually do, which plays right into their hands.

THE FUTURE
See here's what sucks for me personally. I'm a lewd person. I'm a deviant. A sexual being. Such a thing is not seen often as acceptable by any extreme political philosophy, left or right. Oh, and I'm kind of an obsessive gamer on top of that, again, something poorly received by those extreme positions.

There is fear for me that if the next con is propped up by ether those super righty furs, or by the anti movements, There will be no room for the kinds of things I like; Gaming and consensual activities between two adults behind closed doors.

Some of those fears are alleviated, knowing that an experienced convention group with multiple cons under their belt, the Ponyville Bronies LLC, is propping it up, but that brings other fears. Given how much this event has been warped to the non-local perspective, can such a group adjust to the needs of the local population?

I have high hopes of course.

THE POINT

I dunno lol I just need to ramble I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Viewed: 81 times
Added: 7 years ago
 
Teko
7 years ago
There's no place in the fandom for Nazis or people who're trying as hard as possible to portray themselves as Nazis.

Or fake Nazis who spend their time threatening and doxxing people, for that matter.
Kupok
7 years ago
While I can agree with this, to properly combat them, We have to focus on the deeds and things they have done, and avoid even talking about the symbolism.

This will sound weird but... the louder people talk about the symbolism, the more effective the recruitment and indoctrination of their methods are. As with many things, focus on the deeds, not the surface traits.
SpoonFox
7 years ago
This is true for all cases of symbolism... Even when furs were put in negative light, we got more furries to join the fandom (For example)
Teko
7 years ago
They clearly don't care about the symbolism -- when people point out that wearing Nazi armbands, flying Nazi flags, and taking pictures of each other sig-heiling makes them seem kinda Nazi-esque, they double down.

But if a better focus is their actions -- such as doxxing people, blocking out sections of cons to prevent room booking, posting about their white supremacism and talking about bringing guns to cons to shoot people -- then I think their actions are far more damning than silly cosplay.
SpoonFox
7 years ago
In the social sciences panel for the fandom they proved that BabyFurs aren't the most hated (but definitely not the most liked) but Nazi Furs were more than 10 times hated than the baby furs
GreenReaper
7 years ago
Both groups have used similar methods to defend themselves from naysayers; you can't be displaced from a convention you control. Of course, it may fail for other reasons - you have to actually be good at running a con.
Soulfire
7 years ago
i am a localish fur  being out in greeley and all ... How is it that i am missing all this whats going on thing.. and  as a pony i'd just like to say never trust a brony!!
Kupok
7 years ago
Hay now, DeLancy is a Bron-

...Wait that doesn't help the argument does it?
Friar
7 years ago
If ejecting Nazis from the fandom is an agenda, then by gd, I will push it.
Adleisio
7 years ago
Keep in mind though that it was the silencing of the extreme right that has led to the current political climate.
Kupok
7 years ago
That's more like "silencing anything right of Paul Harvey" that caused it. There was no room for any conservatism at all with such loud extremist voices decrying anything not full steam ahead progressive.
SpoonFox
7 years ago
I'm an extreme middlist... I don't care what either side wants as long as it's fair, just, and I'm not getting nuked while sipping my tea! >:O
Kupok
7 years ago
GIVE ME YOUR TEA
SpoonFox
7 years ago
NO! YOU ALWAYS TAKE MORE THAN YOUR FAIR SHARE!
Adleisio
6 years, 12 months ago
I just wish there was more discussion, because there are points from both sides that are way bogus and points that are extremely valid, but nope, the left had to go busy their heads in the sand and basically not allow the right side to have their voices and opinions heard.
Friar
7 years ago
The "silencing of the extreme right,"  narrative, a favorite of right wingers and their cohorts. I don't understand how they're being silenced. They have AM Radio, Stormfront, Focus On The Family, and a bevy of mainstream and semi-underground social networking avenues from which to proliferate their ideologies. It could hardly be said that there is any meaningful silencing going on when these nefarious forces have so many tools and technology at their disposal.
axlegear
7 years ago
Never heard of any of those.
Friar
7 years ago
Do some research - the racists and their cohorts have MANY venues from which to collaborate and exchange information. Perhaps I am more aware of their presence because I live in the Deep South, and not being white, must be vigilant in protecting myself and my loved ones.
axlegear
6 years, 12 months ago
I live in Oklahoma.  :D

We recently ran Westboro the fuck out.
Kupok
7 years ago
Here's the sucky thing.
You're right. I agree with you.

That's not the sucky part. The sucky part is that the very specific group, "The Furry Raiders" want us to talk about this as a politics issue. When The Furry Raiders becomes a politics issue, this takes focus away from the actual ways and things they've done to harm the local community. It stops being "A buncha trolls being shitty to furries" and becomes "Nazi Furs clash with Antifascists"

This earns them genuine support from righty furs who can now suddenly wave off the shitty things this group has done as "rumermongering smear campaigning"

And I understand the urge is strong to simply write them all off as shitty neo-right wing furries, but a lot of those old school right furries have power and influence. This very specific issue cannot be made into a political battleground of ideologies. When that happens in this very specific case, Genuine trolls get away with being little shits.
Friar
7 years ago
"But a lot of those old school right furries have power and influence." This is the part that really concerns me. You and I have been in the fandom longer than most, so the memories of the burnt fur fervor probably still seem fresh in our minds. I concede the fact that combating their influence is a challenge. Various elements of my identity require me to be more vigilant than most, so admittedly I can't be impartial on these issues. I worry that perhaps I'm backing myself into a moral blind spot, but don't see any other option going forward.

At the very least, your commentary on this whole debacle has me wondering how deep the rabbit hole goes in the power and influence department. That's not something I'm hearing more of in the discourse.
Adleisio
6 years, 12 months ago
Just because they have a few platforms doesn't mean that people from the extreme left did not make so that there could not be proper dialogue between the two groups. A lot of it was in regards to basically going 'No, you can't say that' or 'You're wrong' and then covering their ears and screaming to refuse to hear the other side or other people's opinions.

Here is the problem, both the extreme left and extreme right have issues, but both have good points as well. I have seen enough leftist views that are just outright bogus and then also not listening to the right while they expect the right to just take what they say at face value. That is what I mean by silencing, not that there are not platforms for them to come together in collective confirmation bias, but that the left shuts out any of their views and didn't listen. If there were proper discussion between the groups then the current climate would be drastically different.
Kupok
7 years ago
Honestly, I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors.
Friar
7 years ago
If people wanna have Nazi themed yiffests behind closed doors, that's on them - at the same time, I shouldn't have to tolerate things being said at public fandom events, furmeets, gems like "uh, hey you know this is a whites only bathroom. JK dude, JAY KAY don't take it so seriously."  I'm not talking kink policing in my agenda, but folks shouldn't be able to freely say racist things without consequence.  I don't know where you got kink policing from my commentary, but that's not the angle I am approaching this from.
Flygon
7 years ago
What an unpleasant situation.

I've been observing from afar, but have not had too much to say.

It's just unfortunate that any furry convention to run for a long enough period of time, it seems, becomes corrupt enough to implode.

The community are the victims.
GreenReaper
6 years, 11 months ago
Honestly, a lot of time people just get tired. Or over their head - it's one thing to run an event for 300 people, but handling five or ten times that is a whole new ball-game - you have to keep moving the con. Then you run out of the space available in any one location, and start juggling multiple hotels; or cap it.
Flygon
6 years, 11 months ago
On a semi-related note, the online Melbourne, Australia community seems to be imploding and reforming again.

The endless cycle of reformation continues!
GreenReaper
6 years, 11 months ago
The cycle continues - only unlike 50,000 years, we can barely manage 5. :-p
Kupok
6 years, 11 months ago
THey will be Mel-bourne again.
Flygon
6 years, 11 months ago
We say 'Mel-ben' in Melbourne. =P
Kupok
6 years, 11 months ago
Who makes the Mel-ba toast?
Flygon
6 years, 11 months ago
Smashed Avocado.
Haystack
6 years, 11 months ago
despite the... unfortunate awkward moment you and I once encountered (and that I handled VERY badly -- so sorry for that; I've felt awful about it ever since) . . .

I have no problem with lewdness, especially in this fandom.

unfortunately, a lot of our own con attendees at RCFM were so bad that none of the local hotels will deal with NARF any more -- if NARF even is a thing, now.  it seems to have died out entirely. :(  
Kupok
6 years, 11 months ago
Really? You feel awful?
My good friend, Do not feel awful, I have good memory personally <3
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