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minum

FurAffinity administration and their "Policy"

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I do not wanted to write it here, but if FA admins deleted my journals...so...

7 years ago I had a problem with FA admins, who locked adult pics without any reason, so right now I can't see references for commissions.
They said: "Evading the age lock is a bannable offence that is non-appealable, and will transfer to any and all new accounts, even after you are over the age of 18." - tsawolf
As you can see, even your family will be locked with you and even after 18 years old you will be still locked.

All what they want is:
"we'll have to see a photograph of you holding your government issued photo ID" - AsiaNeko
But who are they? They are not a police, they not FBI and etc. They just do not have rights to ask about it! Plus people shouldn't give to anybody their personal information.

Then I am asked about locks. And they said this:
"We don't Mature Lock accounts without evidence the user is a minor." - AsiaNeko

After I am asked about evidence...and you know what? They ignored this question! I can say more, they began to threaten me:
"If you continue to petition using the ticket system for this issue further, it may be seen as a violation of our Code of Conduct." - Chase
And deleted my journal about my problem:
"Your latest journal titled Admins "Policy" will be removed as well." - Chase

If we can take something real, then same rule have shops with alcohol. But where is small thing, which FA admins can't understand: in this shops sellers can see you in RL and your ID, and they still can't get your personal information, like scans, photos and etc. FA admins can't see you in RL, so they can't really know is it you with your ID or not. So if you send them your real photo with your ID, then they can have your personal information, which can be used against you and it changes nothing about identification of your personality. As you can see, this rules do not working, but making a lot of trouble for you.

I think, soon I'll get real ban there. Just because of I am asked about my problem=)
Viewed: 444 times
Added: 7 years ago
 
SomeStickyGoo
7 years ago
Uhh yea no that's freakin bs don't show em your iD there is no need, period!
That's total shit honeslty, I'm sorry that's happened to you, FA admins are really thick skulled people.
minum
7 years ago
This is it! x3
SomeStickyGoo
7 years ago
Just curious, but you said age locks. That usually means the content in your commissions refs was against their policy but what did you draw, I wanna see...? Well I guess I can't now that they'd done what they did.
For 7 years that really does suck! I say screw em if they're gonna be like that ditch FA, especially if it causing you frustration.
minum
7 years ago
I did nothing. They just think what I am underage and all=D
SomeStickyGoo
7 years ago
I dunno why they'd think that. They can think that to a lot of people honeslty. Anyone could be pointed out as acting or being underaged when they actually aren't people do not act their ages in the furry fandom. But that's okay, hehe!
eeveefan
7 years ago
why would they do that? they have no right to.
i dunno why their making up rules.
minum
7 years ago
I think they imagine themselves as gods or something. I can't explain it=\
eeveefan
7 years ago
it sucks for them cause at that rate their site is gonna shut down.
ive herd that site was crap but i didnt think it was this bad. oh well at least you still got a home here with nice admins and kind friends to <3
minum
7 years ago
I hope IB never will be like them x3
eeveefan
7 years ago
im pretty sure it wont. we got nice and kind admins here. plus this site isnt like sites such as e621 with their bullcrap rules and such about tagging. but yeah i doubt ib will ever be bad.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
Much as I disagree with how they handle it, it is their site, they do have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason, even stupid or inconsistent reasons they can't even prove.
MystBunny
7 years ago
FA is going to have to either stop being dicks or continue becoming the dickbag oasis of the fandom. Fchan lost almost all of their users within a few years, it's a wonder the same thing isn't happening to FA yet. Also, off-topic, I've noticed they STILL haven't switched to HTTPS O.o
EvanSKVRL
7 years ago
There is an HTTPS version if you manually input it into the address bar.
MystBunny
7 years ago
ohhhhhh
minum
7 years ago
I think it's because of their reputation in furry fandome=\
FlyingFox
7 years ago
pff for me IB is the main Furry site. Admins here have their shit together and don't abuse their powers.
MystBunny
7 years ago
agree lots
minum
7 years ago
True x3
CFC
CFC
7 years ago
haha mostly have thire shit to gether therews few flaws but yea they are far the best on this site Agreed to that
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
I wish I could call IB the main furry art site. Much better admins.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
They have an established hold. Because most people are there and most people know about it, more people come there and learn about it. Their stupid policies and horrific application of admin power doesn't affect most users, so most users have no reason to see FA for the shit storm that it is.

On top of that, there are many artists who refuse to post on other furry sites because of what is allowed on these sites. IB specifically has a reputation as being THE place for cub art and many in the fandom do not want that association. Weasyl and SoFurry both allow such even if they aren't known for it, and some artists don't want to be on a site that even allows it at all because their art is their livelihood and a site that allows cub art could be banned at any moment.
GreenReaper
7 years ago
You need to enable "Full Security Mode" in your account settings, which will then redirect your browser to use HTTPS whenever you try to access the site via HTTP.

Of course they haven't done it in a way which will actually stop someone causing you to access the site via HTTP via insertion of content on another HTTP site, and siphoning off your cookie, and it's all going via CloudFlare which has access to the unencrypted stream, but it's a bit better than nothing.
Mylen
7 years ago
FA in 2017, seems to still be a huge issue for a lot of people.
minum
7 years ago
Yeah=C
esanhusky
7 years ago
It's been proven time and again that FA is a clique controlled by a few "cool kids" and the rest of us are allowed to hang around at their tolerance until somebody feels the need to exert their authority
minum
7 years ago
I even tried to explain it to them XD They said: "1.5: Do not be disrespectful to site staff or abuse the trouble ticket system." - XD
esanhusky
7 years ago
It's not surprising, really.  Furaffinity rose from the ashes of some drama around an earlier site that Dragoneer was helping to fund, then got butthurt because he had hid admin privileges removed after making changes without consulting the other site owners.  Guess things never change!
ShaneAndCo
7 years ago
Hahaha.

The best part?

From their ToS:

You agree that you are at least thirteen (13) years of age. No individual under the age of thirteen (13) may register an account, use our services, provide any personal information to Fur Affinity, or otherwise upload or transmit personal information through our services (Name, address, telephone number, email address, etc).

In other words...
You must be at least 13 years old to use this site.


So banning for being a minor is against their own ToS xD
stormlust
7 years ago
if I was an ass  I would so call up whome ever is needed and report them in for allowing minors to sign up to a porn site then they would be gone
esanhusky
7 years ago
"Adult" and "Mature" rated art is automatically hidden from users under the age of 18.
RoryKiyomichi
7 years ago
Doesn't BadDragon own FA now? Report that tidbit to them. :x
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
No, FA is not owned by BadDragon. BadDragon talked about making their own art site a couple years ago after FA was purchased by IMVU. But the former owner (Dragoneer, who has nothing to do with BadDragon) and his team still run the site despite being a property of IMVU. That said, nothing here is a violation of their TOS, and they are free to be as big of dicks as they want to their customers. They aren't dicks to enough people for it to really matter to IMVU.
RoryKiyomichi
7 years ago
Aah, I got it confused, whoops. x.x;
Keeran
7 years ago
As much as I find FA garbage, I will hand them their right credits. You can be a minor of 13 years of age and still be on the site. The underlying problem is that you don't want said minors looking at  pornographic content otherwise there's legal troubles.

There is a gray area for verifying users' age. If someone on FA lied about their age just to look at porn, the only way they can find out  is if the user admitted  to falsifying information prior. On IB, we had a similar issue where someone reported a user for multiple counts of sexual harrassment,  and most cases  involved  the cases happening off-site. However, the only evidence  where said harrassment happened on-site was with a user who lied about their age and only admitted themselves as a minor  at the time of the harrassment. The staff wouldn't know until  they had reasonable proof.

Still,  like they do with  borderline cub content,  the best option any FA staff can do is confirm on  multiple sites if said person is  the same age.  (like DeviantArt and Inkbunny) some art sites have options to display birth-dates.
Gloomsville
7 years ago
And this is why alot of people have abandoned FA
SoulCentinel
7 years ago
Yeah, FA is pretty bs. I ditch it when a while ago uploaded a two pics of cream, one being jus a creampie variation. I got a direct ban, no warning, no delete of the pics, direct ban.
minum
7 years ago
D= As I see they do their rules not for people, but for themselves to make not much work and collecting money.
BrokenFacade
7 years ago
I know everyone seems to be on the ditch FA bandwagon in this thread, but you may want to think about this pragmatically. You survive off of commissions. The more places you are able to advertise your art, the larger your pool of potential clients, ergo the higher a price you can charge while still getting work.

I think from a strictly emotionless business perspective, playing by FA's rules is the smart move.
minum
7 years ago
D= I looks curious, but I just wanted to warn people and all XD
Farrel
7 years ago
I would have to agree with this... If you make your living via comission work, you need to be visible in the places with the most users.

For all it's faults, FA still has the biggest userbase. It makes sense to maintain at least a presence there.

On all other counts? yeah, I've rarely heard much positive said about FA's admins, policies or anything really.
Lazyfableoldaccount
7 years ago
Welcome to FA, here we let people upload there own art, but ONLY if we like it. How would you know? Well you have to guess. Come to our homepages, where you art is displayed for a whole 4 seconds, WOW! We could easy make a favorite tab where the best art that day could be displayed but why would we waste time on that?

Go over and check out our really bad search bar, how dose it work well.. to be honest we don't even know. But hey if you are having problem simple talk to an admin and we will help you. Wait you don't have over 1000 watchers? Well then we don't care about your problems.

But we are not ghost, we will flag some of your drawings for no reason what so even and you can be sure we will ban you just cuz we can. Underage characters are not allowed, well that depends. Are you a really big artist that gives us a lot of views you can upload underage characters! What you think that is unfair? Well you can go and fuck yourself!

So welcome to FA, where you will have a real bad time if you aren't a great artist that we admins suck off every weekend.
minum
7 years ago
That's is really sad=\
Lazyfableoldaccount
7 years ago
Well that's FA for you... I'm only still there cuz of some friends that only use FA
IBp
IBp
7 years ago
I still remember when before i used to get any cub art, they deleted a bunch of my submissions for being 'cub.' When the characters in them were like between the ages of 19 and mid 30s. lol.
When I asked what made them think they were cub they couldn't even say why and just basically told me to fuck off and not bother them.
I think it was because I called out a popufur on their bullshit at some point and they didn't like that.
HellDoradoLion
7 years ago
omg thank you xD
aquabear
7 years ago
oh that sucks, and I love your art. Its very hot. :)
minum
7 years ago
thanks =)
aquabear
7 years ago
I always love your art, especially of the furry kind with molly and kit from talespin.
baseballdude4578
7 years ago
I love your art, and I just really hope that you're not actually a minor, since this site is actually a good bit more strict in this regard, I've seen an awesome artist be banned because of it (and quite frankly, it's hard to blame them, since if they didn't and others found out, people from other sites would have much more of a reason to call this site a place for pedophiles, and their hosting company would probably not approve either)
CFC
CFC
7 years ago
i can garantue his not a minor =3
baseballdude4578
7 years ago
Phew, now that's a relief =3 Would be really lame seeing another great artist go
CFC
CFC
7 years ago
minum love *hugs* i say FUCK FA TO THE FUCKING VOID OF DEATH! =D that what admins thire deserv theres are FEW admins thats oki but soon they be gone to the curroption is huge on that site
minum
7 years ago
Well I am already have ban there XD
Weiss
7 years ago
FA has the most incompetent staff AND owner i have ever seen in my life. The guy uses donation money that is SUPPOSED to go towards the site to buy stuff for himself, doesn't update security in time so FA is always behind in therms of security, the mods and staff are SUPER biased and will ban people on a whim or if they PERSONALLY don't like their art, they have the dumbest rules, the most broken search function, it's a wonder how the site is even STILL up. I say to you forget FA and stick to IB
minum
7 years ago
It's true. And even if you try to explain it they become mad. Here is what they told me: "1.5: Do not be disrespectful to site staff." - and after they banned my account=D
Weiss
7 years ago
I only have an account there because of...2, maybe 3 artists that i follow and that's it
AlexanderValentine
7 years ago
Honestly, who needs FA anyways. Only reason I still use it is because a lot of other people use it.
minum
7 years ago
It's good what my freinds mostly already left this site.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
And that is exactly why most people working from commissions still need FA.
AlexanderValentine
7 years ago
Eh. Someone just needs to open a free-to-view artsite, no comments or anything. Just to show artwork and recieve commissions.

And call it something like Commish. Sure, there are plenty of furry sites out there... But there needs to be one that's just all like 'Strictly Buisness'.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
That does not sound like a very usable site for commission based artists as they thrive on community interaction. Based on your description, there are already sites that do that. Look at tinypic.com or photobucket.com While some commissioners use these to one degree or another, it's really not their bread and butter. Community drives business.

On top of that, by law such a site as you suggest would be unable to have any adult material without running into exactly the same issue we see here because the site becomes liable for 'corruption of youth' charges if they knowingly continue to allow minors to view adult material.
AlexanderValentine
7 years ago
Hm... Good point.

Needless to say, Furaffinity's administration needs to be fully replaced with capable staff. That and their TOS to be reworked. It's due to their TOS I don't post anything on the site.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
I've mostly been gone there for about 3 years. I took 9 months completely away after their huge security meltdown, but I finally had to go back just because that's where the users are. Most of my material I can't post there anyway, but for my other stuff... have to go where the readers are.
BillySquirrel
7 years ago
Asking for a photo of your ID could be illegal.
minum
7 years ago
It is. And they even can't understand it.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
Actually, asking is not illegal. There are better ways they could handle it, such as any of the age verification services FA's parent company uses for their chat client, IMVU. But FA is not run by IMVU, IMVU basically lets Dragoneer and his cronies continue to treat a few people like shit so they can keep using it as a huge advertising platform. Never before have I wanted a large company to come in and clean up the shitstorm of a smaller niche project they purchased, but this time, kicking out Dragoneer and his team and modernizing the site and its code would be for the best.
AlexanderValentine
7 years ago
Oh snap. I just remembered that IMVU owns FA.

Wonder if we can Petition them to remove the Badministration. Props if they do it too.
KaloTheSkunk
7 years ago
Asking for you to send a clear photograph of government issued identification, and likely your face as well.
They honestly expect people to do this for a total stranger who is in no way affiliated with the government? Get bent xD
The identity theft or blackmail potential here. Trust FA staff with a photo of your face and personal ID.
I've never laughed so hard. Time and again with this sort of crap. It never gets old

"You must be at least 13 years old to use this site"
So they have no reason to bother someone unless the user themselves exposed how old they really are.
That's usually how it goes anywhere else, right?
This guilty-until-proven-innocent nonsense is almost Orwellian. FA staff are a joke.
Get real. They are in no position to ask for photos of people and their legal documents. That is quite illegal
minum
7 years ago
Funny, but FA administration mostly looks like administration in Russia XD I mean fully corrupted and don't care about people.
KaloTheSkunk
7 years ago
Unless its something which threatens them personally, they dont care
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
Not illegal at all, actually. Stupid, perhaps, other methods are available for age verification, but it's not illegal. Furthermore, with just an image of the photo ID there isn't much potential for identity theft. They would need other supporting information to make use of it, and most of what is on the ID is already fairly easy to acquire via other means or isn't even useful to a fraud.

This is a fairly common requirement for adult community sites. A couple required not only a photo ID but also taking a picture of myself holding a sign with such things as their website, the date, my username, and/or a specific phrase that was sent only for my use. A particular nudist community even requires the photo be taken of the user while nude.

I'm not saying FA is right in how they are handling this, just that it is wrong to say that the request is illegal. There is nothing about showing an ID that requires the receiver to be a government entity. Many private clubs keep a copy of your photo ID on record with your membership, and they aren't government entities. Employers, car rental, apartment rental, all of these often keep a copy of your photo ID.
JinxMcKenzie
7 years ago
Excuse me, what is FurAffinity ??
minum
7 years ago
BunnyFoxglove
7 years ago
Change your IP and make a new account with a new email, completely different user name. They COULD try to detect it's you, but that would require a lot of work on their side. So unless you make it obvious, or someone reports you, they won't know. It's not impossible to cross-reference the ISP, but there's no way for them to know for sure that it's you unless you're the only person making an account from that ISP. Even then you could use a VPN to make the account.

Don't bother trying to fight, or argue with FA admins. They're legitimately brain damaged. Common sense doesn't apply with them.
LemmyNiscuit
7 years ago
Arbitration always sucks when the people doing so haven't the slightest clue what it means to abide by policy and having due diligence for policy appeals.

While there is a clause in there to protect the ticket system from being abused, the same entity that interprets what constitutes abuse is the same entity that enforces policy, and without a very clear denotation of what constitutes abuse, that often leads to varying levels of interpretation based on personal factors.

Unfortunately this is not a matter of legality in the strictest sense, so you're left to those whims. If they were competent, they would define what actions you are taking that constitute abuse of the system when you request it, and explain the proper method of appeal also when you request it.

Request of these two items is not abuse, and contesting in the manner in which they direct you to after requesting how is not abuse; to say these actions are abusive is to say they are done with you, for whatever reason, and are not interested in clarifying their policy.

Policy should be in place to protect and guide all vested parties.

tl;dr: Sorry, sounds like they're tired of your shit, and don't care.

(That's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and not me actually being harsh to you.)
LemmyNiscuit
7 years ago
To add to this, presentation of personal information via insecure means to parties which are not legally capable of obtaining and handling such information is not appropriate.

That's basically social engineering.

Kinda perturbs me that anyone even requested that.
minum
7 years ago
What's why I don't want to show them anything x3
NinoM4ster
7 years ago
That's why I don't use their system.
Chantelle
7 years ago
Because it would be amusing as fuck, try going right over their heads straight to IMVU and tell them what's being requested of you, ask them the legality of it.
ChatMiaou
7 years ago
FA is the last place to show your ID (which is probably illegal). Bunch of lazy, incompetent assholes... Some day their servers will actually crash and burn and the world will be a better place.
ZekLullaby
7 years ago
That site... Why even care?

Also, what happens if you can legally see porn while been under 18?
My country has no laws against that.
Threeinone
7 years ago
Internet laws work interestingly, a server owner has to apply laws that effect both where their server is being hosted and at least the 3 largest countries that visit the site. so it doesn't mater what the laws are where you are unless you are in one of those 3 countries. I think FA is US, Canada, and the UK, all of which have extremely strict viewing laws for people under 18, thus they HAVE TO stick to those laws or they are liable for legal charges.
minum
7 years ago
Threeinone, as I said, their policy do not works: "Problem is even not in age. Problem is what they do not know is it your real ID or not. So showing your ID is useless anyway. This rules make more problems, than helping. Here for example pic: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03... - how you can check is it me or not? You can't."
minum
7 years ago
I even do not know why everyone locks porn pictures for 12 years old kids. Human reproductive system begins in that age. I can undertand taboo on sex in early ages (since kid is kid and do not have apartments and do not know how educate hisown kids), but locks on porn? Seriously? It's against nature. It's like if every country make a law with sex ban for homosexuals.
BrokenFacade
7 years ago
Well gay sex is still illegal in 12 states in America.
minum
7 years ago
As I said it's normal, since kids sometimes silly. But for 18 years old and older it's ridiculous XD
Threeinone
7 years ago
mkay.. I'm seeing nothing but a circle jerk of hate to FA here... The problem is... they are kinda right, and have every single right in the world to ask to see your ID. I'm not FA fanboy, I abandoned the site with the rest of you for Inkbunny but they are right.

Furaffinity is a privately owned adult oriented art website that hosts millions of images that are considered adult and/or extreme, they are required by law to make sure that no minors are using their website to view explicit materials, this is of course incredibly hard to do on a case by case biases because of kids just simply lying about their age. To get around this and to make sure they aren't invading the privacy of everyone on the site they run on the honor system, they will trust you that you are the age you say you are. But if they find out you lied and are under 18 then they HAVE TO, BY LAW, ban you or remove your access to adult content. They literally have no other option, it's either that or become liable for a corruption of minors charge.

Once they have banned/age restricted you on the site they are then required to have proof that you are over 18 before they can remove said ban/restrictions, the easiest thing to do that is of course your photo ID, you know, using it for exactly what it's intended for? State/national ID exists to be given to strangers as proof of who you are, your age, and/or your address, people (at least in the US) hand it over to complete strangers EVERY SINGLE DAY when buying specific age restricted items.

FA is fully in their right to ask for your ID to appeal the age restriction, and I'd imagine if you asked the Inkbunny staff how they would handle the situation they would tell you that they would need to do the EXACT same thing.
NaughtyThorn
7 years ago
Exactly. Well, same thing as far as legality is concerned. With Minum's broken English and incomplete record of events it is difficult to tell for sure what FA did or didn't do here, but Minum at least feels that FA did not have the courtesy to tell them why they were age restricted, and I would think IB admins would.

It has been ticking me off a bit how many people jump to "asking for ID is illegal!" and I think you said it best here:
"State/national ID exists to be given to strangers as proof of who you are, your age, and/or your address, people (at least in the US) hand it over to complete strangers EVERY SINGLE DAY when buying specific age restricted items."
minum
7 years ago
Problem is even not in age. Problem is what they do not know is it your real ID or not. So showing your ID is useless anyway. This rules make more problems, than helping. Here for example pic: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03... - how you can check is it me or not? You can't.

" incredibly hard to do on a case by case biases because of kids just simply lying about their age.
They literally have no other option, it's either that or become liable for a corruption of minors charge.

Kids have their parents, which should check what his kid do. If thier kid like to watch porn and parents OK with it, then who is FA? So literally PARENTS their option and nothing else. It's reminds me of law for pedophiles, which should protect REAL kids againts being raped and etc, but in the end it's only protects fictional anime characters.

" FA is fully in their right to ask for your ID

Nobody have rights to ask your ID, except police or if exists special law (for buying alcohol for example). It's your personal information, so it can be used against you.
minum
7 years ago
" hand it over to complete strangers EVERY SINGLE DAY when buying specific age restricted items.

As you can see, sellers can see you in RL and your ID, so it's have a sense (and your personal information still with you and not in FA servers). Admins of FA can't see you in RL, what's why it's useless.
Threeinone
7 years ago
You clearly don't understand how many laws work with the internet. This is a blanket reply to all of your messages.

The name of the game here is "culpability". This is the idea of who's fault it is that a crime or crime like activity has occurred. A business like FA needs to cover themselves for culpability in order to prevent someone from suing them or from any District Attorney's bringing them up on criminal charges.

To do this they have to follow very specific and strict rules. In your case this comes down to corruption of a minor charges, a serious crime at least in the US where FA is based. In order to avoid these charges, say if a parent were to report them to the police, they have to do their due diligence in order to prevent minors from using the adult features of the site, but at the same time they have to protect the privacy of their members. So instead of say.. providing proof of age when you log in (a practice many MANY sites require) they let anyone join for free and list their age as they see fit, BUT if proof comes up that the person who registered LIED on their account in order to access the adult content FA is REQUIRED to remove their access to said adult content until it can be proven that the maker of the account is over the age of 18. If they don't they open themselves up to legal action, law suits, and many MANY other problems.

Again, it's called Culpability.

As for your claim that they have no way of knowing if it's really you and your ID in the picture, yeah, they don't, but again, culpability. They can't be sued or get in trouble for it once you have given them proof of your age, real or not, at that point it's YOUR responsibility for any actions you take or are taken. FA will have done it's full due diligence and have washed their paws of any legal responsibility, having taken every step within their power to make sure you are in fact the age you claim to be. That is the point where any culpability is put on the user and or his/her/their guardian and NOT the website in question.

If you still can't wrap your head around that idea, I'm sorry, it's how law works in almost EVERY country (though not all) it's honestly the ONLY fair way to handle it and keep individuals and larger entities safe from unfair legal action. If you don't trust FA with your ID, go ahead and use a fake one with a fake photo, but anything and everything that comes from that as a consequence is on your shoulders from that point on.
Threeinone
7 years ago
Now if you REALLY care about privacy ask (not through a support ticket) if you are allowed to redact unrelated information, this would be as simple as going into a photo editor and blocking out everything but your face and birthday to prove age, and bam, proof of age (real or not) and all the privacy you want
minum
7 years ago
As I said it's useless, since it can be even not my face and not me and not my ID. And you can't check is it right information or not.
minum
7 years ago
" The name of the game here is "culpability".

Real name of this is "useless", since it's doesn't work at all (I already explained why). All what ther users will get it's problem with administration without any protection.

" if a parent were to report them to the police, they have to do their due diligence in order to prevent minors from using the adult features

I understand it, but in my situation they do not have any clue or evidence. And when I asked about it they just ignored it.

" knowing if it's really you and your ID in the picture, yeah, they don't, but again, culpability

Even you said what it's useless. So why you can't understand it?

" full due diligence and have washed their paws of any legal responsibility

Every normal sites just give to their member to choose which age they have. It's already washed their paws.

" I'm sorry, it's how law works in almost

So you will be jump from the roof if everyone will be do it, right?
minum
7 years ago
" In order to avoid these charges, say if a parent were to report them to the police

I know real name of it: "Lazy and bad parents, who do not wan't to watch for their children, since they asked about it police or site administration or even government." Looks like government should take away chldren from this parents, since anyway they asked government about to watch for their kids.
Threeinone
7 years ago
No.. it's not about lazy or bad parents.. it's still the parent's responsibility but what you are failing to understand is that it's not "useless" or "pointless", just because you think so doesn't make that true.

As for jumping off a building if everyone else is doing it, that depends, is my choice to jump off a building or be charged with pedophilia and put in jail? Oh, and at the bottom of the building is a nice soft inflatable stunt bag that will literally have no negative consequences at all?

It is not a point of if it's "useless" or to catch people lying, you are really really misunderstanding the situation, you CAN lie, that's not the problem, it's not going to hurt FA at ALL if you lie, what they want, is a peace of documentation saying that they did everything they could (within legal restrictions) to prove your age, so that any criminal activity you are discovered to be participating in or the victim of has nothing to do with their company.

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are just wrong in this situation, the laws and the regulations on this are VERY clear FA can not do it in any other way. EVERY single website that has adult content and hosts itself in the US, Canada, UK, and most of the EU has to do it like this. Ask an Inkbunny admin, they WILL tell you that they would do the exact same thing if in that situation, because they HAVE to, by LAW.

If you have a problem with it don't blame the FA admins blame the laws in the US, Canada, UK and EU, or start using a website hosted somewhere where the laws are different.
minum
7 years ago
" it's still the parent's responsibility

If they really responsible, then they should know what their kids doing. But for now it looks like: "Oh, I found what my Tommy watching porn! Need to call in police!!!" - it's even sounds stupid.

" just because you think so doesn't make that true.

I am already prooved to you what it is useless. And even you said what it is useless: "As for your claim that they have no way of knowing if it's really you and your ID in the picture, yeah, they don't" - Threeinone

" is my choice to jump off a building or be charged with pedophilia and put in jail?

Am I right understand what fictional characters for you = real kids? Then maybe you should make special law for can of paint, because it'a can be raped? I have only one question: Do you really understand what you talking about?=\

" it's not going to hurt FA at ALL if you lie

I am already sent them photo from google. But my account still banned. Which excuse you can tell me now?

" the laws and the regulations on this are VERY clear FA can not do it in any other way.

I think, it's you can't understand what government already ****ed up your rights and only what you doing is coming up with excuses. Also, Picarto and Deviant Art do not have it and their servers still in US.

" the FA admins blame the laws in the US

I think, you wanted to say what I should blame you, because this laws maked people, for which YOU voted.
Threeinone
7 years ago
" If they really responsible, then they should know what their kids doing. But for now it looks like: "Oh, I found what my Tommy watching porn! Need to call in police!!!" - it's even sounds stupid.


Yes it sounds stupid but it happens, people like to avoid responceability so the government put up laws that protect companies from those kind of stupid people, that's the whole point of all of this, it is NOT to take away anyone's freedom it's to protect the companies and websites from overly zealous parents who think it's the government or business' job to protect their children from bad things.

How old are you by the way? 7 years ago you wouldn't happen to have been.. underaged? I mean.. the way you talk about it it seems like you were, and yet you were on an adult website, lying about your age. Man your parents must be horrible irresponsible parents according to your logic.

No offense meant if your parents weren't around or there was some other issue with it.

" I am already prooved to you what it is useless. And even you said what it is useless: "As for your claim that they have no way of knowing if it's really you and your ID in the picture, yeah, they don't" - Threeinone


It's not useless because doing so, real of fake, protects the company. It prevents them from having any culpability. Which is the whole point.

" Am I right understand what fictional characters for you = real kids? Then maybe you should make special law for can of paint, because it'a can be raped? I have only one question: Do you really understand what you talking about?=\


No...? have you seen my Inkbunny page? The comparison has nothing to do with cub porn of any kind nore did I mention anything to do with furry cubs, but if Furaffinity DIDN'T follow the laws they can be accused of different levels of pedophilia for exposing minors to adult material. Do YOU understand what you're talking about? cause again, this has NOTHING to do with cub porn, only the concept of exposing minors to adult materials.


" I am already sent them photo from google. But my account still banned. Which excuse you can tell me now?


Because google has what's called a reverse image search and after the whole fuss you've been throwing it wouldn't surprise me if they checked it. Otherwise it's been less then a day and they get THOUSANDS of messages a day it takes time to respond.

Otherwise I'd imagine the BAN wouldn't be reversed because you were not banned for being underaged, you were banned for harassing the staff by abusing the trouble ticket system after being warned not to.

" I think, it's you can't understand what government already ****ed up your rights and only what you doing is coming up with excuses. Also, Picarto and Deviant Art do not have it and their servers still in US.


https://picarto.tv/site/terms

Picarto has the exact same rules and laws. And would most likely have the exact same requirements to terminate a ban for being underaged. They also host out of Germany not the US.

http://about.deviantart.com/policy/service/
http://about.deviantart.com/policy/etiquette/

Deviant Art outright BANS explicit and adult material, only allowing "artistic" nudity which is protected by law, thus they do not apply to this argument at all.


" I think, you wanted to say what I should blame you, because this laws maked people, for which YOU voted.


No, because these laws have existed all over the world since before I was born, and in the US LONG before I was of legal age to vote. These laws originated with newspaper stands being banned from selling playboy magazine to teenagers and have only been slightly amended and updated over the years. They haven't been removed because there is nothing wrong with them, they don't take away any "freedom" unless by "freedom" you mean the freedom for an irresponsible adult to sue or prosecute a company just because they hosted adult content and their kid found the website.
Threeinone
7 years ago
At this point i can really see you're trying to narrow down the US as some kinda super troublesome police state that's causing all these problems. It also seems like you're blaming the current administration for laws that have existed since the early 1900's?

I mean sure if laws written way back then are gunna magically turn us into a police state we must have been one for a hundred years now!

You are failing to understand that these laws are mostly GLOBAL. Hundreds of countries agree with them across the whole world, the US is honestly one of the most relaxed on them of all. People aren't going to jail left and right for letting a kid see a penis on the internet, it doesn't happen in the US unless something a LOT more illegal is going on. But these rules still exist, not to take away anyone's freedoms, but to protect them and to make sure a company isn't getting in toruble for something they have absolutely no control over.
minum
7 years ago
" It also seems like you're blaming the current administration for laws that have existed since the early 1900's?

Every nation should have evolution in laws. For example if specialists in psychology saying what gay is normal, then it should be normal. If they says what porn not affects on children, then it's should be normal too (animals have a sex and even their cubs can see it (lions for example) and they do not have any problems). This is how it's should work. Right now in most countries politics used common people (who do not have educations in special aspects) for to be presidents or get their places in senate. This is not right.

" You are failing to understand that these laws are mostly GLOBAL.

They are NOT global. Japan for example.
minum
7 years ago
" it's to protect the companies and websites from overly zealous parents who think it's the government or business' job to protect their children from bad things

And they did this laws, where moderators should ban people for nothing? I really can't see any logic in your comment=\ And specially parents should watch for their kids and not moderators.

" I mean.. the way you talk about it it seems like you were, and yet you were on an adult website, lying about your age.

First, who said what I am lying? Do you have evedence of it? No Maybe you have eveidence what I am underage? Again no. Any question? Second, my parents is not idiots and can solve problems without police or FBI.

" It prevents them from having any culpability.

They already have culpability, just because: "they will trust you that you are the age you say you are" - Threeinone
Useless again.

" Do YOU understand what you're talking about?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND what REAL law for pedophiles created for protect REAL children for being raped, just because they have feels, personality and they will be part of society, who will be build future. What's why need this law.
You talking about paint, which have NOTHING with real children (it's just imagination of artist or someone, who asked about to draw it), and you saying what this law should protect it. Seriously? Do you know what your money will be used on it, instead use it for protection for real kids. How can't you understand it?

" Because google has what's called a reverse image search and after

As you can see now, your speach about "washed their paws" become useless again.

" you were banned for harassing the staff by abusing the trouble ticket system after being warned not to

Look I am little tired to read your excuses. But if you can read my journal again, then maybe you can find what I got lock 7 years ago and ONLY NOW they banned my account, because I asked about evidence.

" Picarto has the exact same rules and laws.

Really? Let's see:
"To use the services of Picarto, you have to be 18 years or older. You accept that channels labeled 18+ may themed adult content (as defined further below) and that you may be exposed to such content at any time by accessing those." - I can't find any locks or ID asking.
"any kind of real pornographic content (photo/video). Also prohibited are depictions of lascivious and NSFW-like persons or characters under the legal age of maturity." - I am streaming everyday of cub porn there. Still nothing=) Also they have:
"Collecting and or saving any kind of user information or person related data is forbidden and will result in a permanent ban. We reserve the right to take legal action against anyone violating this prohibition" - this is FA doing=)
Same in DA. To bad what I can't show you, because I used this gallery for different pictures right now, but 6 months ago where is was a huge collection of cub furry porn=) And it's even after moderation=D

" No, because these laws have

You know how it sounds? It sounds like: "they banned everything for me, but I am still free" =) Funny thing what I see only exuses form you, insted to do something for REAL working laws.
Threeinone
7 years ago
Let's try this again.
" And they did this laws, where moderators should ban people for nothing?

" I got lock 7 years ago and ONLY NOW they banned my account


You were age locked 7 years ago for being underaged and trying to view adult content.
you were banned now for harassment of staff through the trouble ticket system after multiple warnings.
These two things have literally nothing to do with each other other then you and your actions. If you would have spammed the trouble ticket system about ANYHTING else you would have gotten a ban just the same. You were NOT banned for being underaged, you are clearly NOT underaged right now. You were banned for abusing a system.


" They already have culpability, just because: "they will trust you that you are the age you say you are" - Threeinone
Useless again.


That isn't what I said, and that isn't how it works. Please stop changing my words to fit into your brainless idea of how things "should" work. It doesn't mater what your opinion is I am stating FACTS about how the law works and why it works that way all you are doing is showing how ignorant you are on these things.

" Despite you saying otherwise I'm just going to continue to think you think cub porn is real child porn because I can't understand that this conversation has nothing to do with cub porn - Minum


I have fought.. multiple times to defend furry porn of ALL kinds as an art form, I have multiple journals that specifically talk about cub porn and it's banning on other websites wile stuff like rape and snuf continue to be allowed. I have a CLEAR understanding the difference between a real child and a furry cartoon. This conversation... has NOTHING to do with that at ALL. It is about laws and regulations regarding EXPLICIT materials REAL OR ARTISTIC.

" As you can see now, your speach about "washed their paws" become useless again.


You do understand anyone reading this conversation can look up and see my side of it right? cherry picking my words to try and make yourself look "right" wont work? as you can see in my full quote about that, the most likely reason you were banned was for abusing the trouble ticket system, which means sending them a photo wont get you unbanned at this point because the ban has NOTHING to do with the age appeal.

" Look I am little tired to read your excuses. But if you can read my journal again, then maybe you can find what I got lock 7 years ago and ONLY NOW they banned my account, because I asked about evidence.


Yes... asking for evidence in the trouble ticket system, which is not what the trouble ticket system is for... you misused the system to get admin attention instead of following their rules. I don't know the exact situation since you didn't post every ticket you sent but you made it CLEAR that you were warned not to use the trouble ticket system like that.. and then you did it again, sounds like a very fair ban to me.

" Your quotes from the Picarto ToS that you clearly don't understand.


......... really? So... under this logic if I went on a killing spree and just never got caught then I didn't commit a crime right? You are telling me... that just because you haven't been caught breaking the rules that the rules don't apply to you? Do you not understand how stupid that sounds? On top of this, the "gathering user information" if CLEARLY specifying a rule about other members on the site, not STAFF. They have already gathered personal information that they store, like your IP, your e-mail, and other such information.

And again, DA bans explicit adult material, doesn't mater if you broke the rules without getting caught before, rules still exist.

-------

Global doesn't mean "every single country" it means that countries all over the world support it, which is true. And even japan is currently passing new child protection laws that will most likely end the same.
minum
7 years ago
" You were age locked 7 years ago for being underaged and trying to view adult content.

Again, where is your evidence? You do not have them. You even do not know my age to say it. But if you really want to know then you can ask
Zekey
Zekey
(who can prove what I was adult even 7 years ago) or
CFC
CFC
about may age, because they saw me. I even can send you screenshot (after a week, because they banned me) of my first ticket with admins, who banned me without any evidence.

" you were banned now for harassment of staff through the trouble ticket system after multiple warnings.

Because they ignored my tickets, where I asked about evidence. What I should do, just leave it? And they even now do not want to explain why they did it. As I said I need to now only a reason this is all.

" That isn't what I said, and that isn't how it works.

Really? XD Then you can scroll up and see it by your own eyes XD I can say more, you even changed your mind. First time you said:
" Furaffinity is a privately owned adult oriented art website that hosts millions of images that are considered adult and/or extreme, they are required by law to make sure that no minors are using their website to view explicit materials

I proved to you what it doesn't work (with RL sellers and ID example) and even you said what it doesn't work: "knowing if it's really you and your ID in the picture, yeah, they don't" - Now you changed your mind and now they did it for thier own protection:
" that's the whole point of all of this, it is NOT to take away anyone's freedom it's to protect the companies and websites from overly zealous parents

=D Funny thing, but even it doesn't work, just because admins do not know your real age, so parents will be call to police anyway XD This is Salmy's words:
"We don't know that :o We have to trust the anonymous users that get an account that they're minors."
"If we /find/ evidence of someone being a minor then it's when we suspend their account until their supposed 18th birthday." - FA didn't, so you will be locked aven after 18 years old XD

" It is about laws

Interesting what you will be do if Trump make a law where you should give to him all your money and all waht you have? Is it will be "It is about laws" anyway?=D

" my side of it right?

Where? You only talked about law, which is useless (I proved to you it many times). How much I should copy/paste my words?

" banned was for abusing the trouble ticket system

Do you really read, what I am talking about? I DO NOT CARE ABOUT BAN I ONLY NEED EVIDENCE why I have lock. THIS IS ALL.

" you misused the system to get admin attention instead of following their rules

They have special theme in this tickets if you dislike admin's decision. Open FA and check it. Also maybe you can tell me other way how to talk with them?

" got caught then I didn't commit a crime right?

Admins was in my streams XD Which excuse will be next? Same in DA.
Threeinone
7 years ago
These laws are evolving and changing, they have been updated and made better, made to protect people and keep them safe from unfair legal action by either the state or individuals, you seem to have some kind of notion that this all takes away from your freedom somehow but it doesn't, this effects your freedom in no way at all. It effects your ability to use a privately owned website that you deliberately broke the rules on. As the owners/moderators they had every right to ban you for breaking their rules. It's the same case where if you went out and broke the law RL you would be put in jail or fined.

These laws exist for good reasons and they do good things. your ignorance will not change that. I'm done with this conversation, I've said all i can and at this point I'll only be repeating myself. If you want to be ignorant and fight this fight go right ahead.

This all boils down to a simple thing, you broke rules, you got punished, now you want to complain and get a nice rush of feel good emotions by posting this journal and having everyone tell you how right you are. But you're not right, you are a cub complaining very loudly about it being not fair or breaking your "freedom" but like you said, you're still free. Just not free to break rules without consequence.
minum
7 years ago
I already showed you what this laws is useless.

They should help people and not making a troubles.

" you got punished

As I said, you do not have evidence, so, as you can see, it's your imagination, which do not have any sense with real problem. You trying to blame me, becuse you can't prove anything and you don't have evidence. FA admins did same.
IBp
IBp
7 years ago
Oh fuck I would never trust FA with my ID.
It seems like once a year everyone's fucking personal info and/or PMs get leaked because they don't know how to actually update their website's security.
CFC
CFC
7 years ago
not after what happend to Edis Krad
MikePilo
7 years ago
Most websites like this come out of amarica and it is fedral law that all explocit content must be locked for anyone under the age of 18. All sites that display this content must abide by this law and also must enforce it. This means if there is any posability that a person has violated this law they must seek evidence of the persons actual age and just like buying beer or sigorets theu must ask for your ID as prof you are over 18.

The 7 years is to ensure that you are 18 buy the time you are alowed to access your acount again.

They are opperating within the law as reqired. Its not that they want to do this but if they dont then the FBI will shut down thier site and possibly prosicute them with providing porn to children. All web site will follow these rulls. If this problem comes up on inkbunny they too will require your ID as prof of age. This is just the law.
minum
7 years ago
" it is fedral law that all explocit content must be locked for anyone under the age of 18

Then you should clearly watch for which person you want to vote. Because it's looks like common political games just for to have president place or places in senate without any real help or protection for people.

" must seek evidence of the persons actual age and just like buying beer or sigorets theu must ask for your ID as prof you are over 18

As you can see, they can't really know your age even if they asked about ID. So this "law" doesn't work.

" The 7 years is to ensure that you are 18 buy the time you are alowed to access your acount again.

They do not want to do it too.

" Its not that they want to do this but if they dont then the FBI will shut down

This is sad, because it's not compare to your freedom. Your country will become to police country like Russia (I hope you can understand horrible it is). Also picarto.tv do not have this rules like FA and looks like they do not have problems with FBI and they in USA same thing in Deviant art.
FuzzyTube
7 years ago
Aww dang that sucks buddy :0
minum
7 years ago
x3
bbmbbf
7 years ago
I got permabanned from that site because I posted an Babs Bunny comic (such a crime!) my account actually says "suspended" not banned,  which is the same,  I lost  a lot of friends due that reason. it affected me a lot,  idiots shouldn't have so much power in a big community
KaiYLlwynogSlei
7 years ago
I recently had a journal removed about a year after posting due to it linking off-site to content that is not allowed by the TOS, supposedly.

Funny how popular artists do this all the time and never get removals. Of course, if they punished those popular artists, they would move off elsewhere. FA would lose traffic and FINALLY people would probably start the most recent and last ever exodus of the shitty site.

Also the speed at which tickets are dealt with, even high priority ones like "underage" and illegal content is so slow it is like... Why even bother? Enough people have seen it by that point for it to surely be a legal matter.

One thing for the people that aren't the top percentage, another for the rest of the userbase.
ajolias
7 years ago
There's a workaround. You can link directly to the picture by rightclicking and selecting "view image".
minum
7 years ago
It's if you can see full image, then yeah I can see pictures that way x3
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