Welcome to Inkbunny...
Allowed ratings
To view member-only content, create an account. ( Hide )
Catastrophecomics

Announcement: delays and art theft.

As you know for almost 2 years we have given half of our labor away for free on art sites, a page for them for every two pages our patrons were kind enough to fund. Despite several previous art leaks from our private server, we've continued along this same model for the sake of attracting the right kind of support from the positive (and overwhelmingly supportive) members of the art community.

We've had positive responses from most of our audience, both those happy to wait for the free pages and those who have been kind enough to help us up productivity and sponsor more of this project than we could have ever hoped for when we started.

That said, art thievery is always a problem in the furry community, and is even worse when your income (and the project) depends on the life-blood from sponsors.

Though some take a soft response to theft, the aggressive responses to the comic's delay for free release have forced a hard stance against this bullying and, honestly, very unnecessary insults, death threats and aggression for not bringing people more gay romance story than we can afford to give out for free. We have a five person team working on a dozen pages a month and that adds up in terms of cost to us all and work hours...

Once again, sadly one of our supporters fell to the peer pressure of the art sharing sites and published the pages for free, which always results in a drop in our sponsor intake and retention and badly hurts our team's income...

We're sad to announce that, as previously mentioned, we have had to increase the membership fee for new members to our private server as funded through Patreon and Swaggerdile contributions. We were hoping to avoid this, but since the comic has also progressed for a long time since we offered the comic membership, it means it's hopefully not too bad a cost for honest supporters, but will discourage re-applying thieves who have to pay for the content they've already taken.

Our basic membership fee (support threshold) will be $30 for new members only (nothing our current patrons have to worry about!), which will get you all 160 pages of the comic in higher resolution than you can see here, and 12 pages a month thereafter. That's less than 19 cents a page of digital download :)

We're sad to say that, due to the theft, uploads here will be slower while we try to recuperate our losses. We will be publishing an update here approximately every week, as opposed to the promised  6-8 updates a month.

As a further warning, team members have had success on other projects by closing off public versions of the comic altogether. We may be forced to consider this if abuse and thefts continue. I would suggest those wishing to support the comic to do it sooner rather than later, further increases in membership for new members and further delays to free pages are likely in response to further art theft and personal attacks.
 
As the community manager here on the art galleries, I wish to make two personal warnings. Drama here in response to the project manager's decision will not be tolerated, nor will attacks on other audience members or supporters. You will be blocked and reported. I also do not recommend members here go searching for the leaks: art share sites have been offering malicious downloads and unauthentic zips of harmful downloads to those asking for the comic, and have been notably harsh in pressuring thread members into being implicit in their crimes and losing their position on patreon and swaggerdile.
Viewed: 464 times
Added: 7 years, 1 month ago
 
BullseyeBronco
7 years, 1 month ago
So, wait... What site is the price going up? Patreon?
BullseyeBronco
7 years, 1 month ago
Also, basic member ship fee, is that $3, or $30? I see on patreon that I can sign up for the $3 tier.
DaftVenture
7 years, 1 month ago
i think the short answer is both, and the teir that gives actual access to data. presumaby if there's a 3 dollar tier it is a 'donation' tier and does not actualy grant access to pages.

i'm not a patreon supporter (sorry, i'm a poor moocher. T.T) so take my guesses with a grain of salt.


people have actualy threatened the team? seriously, i never understand that. what idiot thinks that is going to do anything but make things worse? maybe that's the idea.... haters.
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
You can support the comic for as much or as little as you want. What we have is basically what is called a "support threshold", no matter what you pay each month our account can keep track of your TOTAL pay. Once that reaches $30 (plus the next month, so $33) you qualify for our rewards - It's basically like a membership fee, it gets you access to our private website where we distribute the comic pages as they are made, and also buys you the digital download of all the comic pages (which even at the base level are about %150 resolution to on here). It's a fee we had to ask for to cover the server space for uploading all the art to each person.

So, yes, Sort of "both" is the answer. If you paid $33 the first month, you could keep getting updates by paying as little as $3 from the next month onwards - Or you could pay $6 for a few months as a lay-away to get the comic after a few months - and then all the exclusive updates after that. You always get every page so far when you hit that support threshold, so it doesn't matter how long it takes, you'll eventually be up-to-date when you hit the $33.
LeonWolf
7 years, 1 month ago
Wait. You guys have had death threats?

Over a comic?
KNIFE
7 years, 1 month ago
Yeah seriously?
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
Our team manager, who makes a lot of the decisions on membership has tried to defend himself and even alert authorities to thefts - a few times I've been informed by "concerned individuals" that trying to fight the thieves and make them mad could get someone shot or their house burned down or worse - So we shouldn't complain or try to stop them, what with our lives on the line. Some very "concerned" individuals, those... Certainly worried, and wanting us to know how easy it would be to firebomb our houses based on mutual doxxings that happened with a team member of ours on a previous project after he shared email addresses of art thieves.
Mircea
7 years, 1 month ago
If your team manager happens to be called FAFComics, he's sent his fair share of threats to other people (minor ones however). Obviously that is NOT an excuse to send even him death threats... whoever is doing that, frigging get into your senses people! I'm just saying he has made a whole lot of enemies on the internet due to his behavior, so in this particular case I just can't be surprised that it's gotten to this point.
Atlasfield
7 years, 1 month ago
Catastrophic, basically.

But you are not the only one who is happening with this.
BullseyeBronco
7 years, 1 month ago
But yeah, still fucking sucks that people treat others like this... I mean, come on... You're trying to make a living.
Furlips
7 years, 1 month ago
Unfortunately, the internet has always been fueled by "Information yearns to be free."
In short, a zero respect of intellectual property rights.

They only way around this is to embed a unique serial number in each download that is assigned to the person downloading it.
Then when "stolen art" shows up where it shouldn't, retrieve the serial number and you have solid proof as to who did it.

Bunners
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
We have ways of finding out, yes, slghtly more complicated than you mentioned to my understanding, and some of the art sites have been extremely forthcoming about user IPs or watermarking posts, which helps. The thief has already forfeited his membership, we just have to hope the damage done isn't enough to damage the comic's productivity, we can only do so much between fending off verbal attacks and drama and people scheming to either sell our comic or share it for free to deny us the money we've been working hard for...
Klorsis
7 years, 1 month ago
Raising the price against potential new customers and withdrawing what is essentially advertising content from other sites is exactly why I pulled my support months ago.   Just saying that as something to consider if/when it happens again.
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
I'm sorry to hear that, we were hoping that being upfront about the possibility of increasing the prices and the possibility of reduced free pages would encourage fans of the comic to support, not the other way around - we don't want to make it harder for new members, hence why the prices have remained so low for so long, but it's one of our only deterrents against repeat thefts to make it impractical to buy back into a comic for a dozen pages, as opposed to the 80+ unseen pages a new member would get going from the free sites to the paid one.
KenEldrick
7 years, 1 month ago
This comic is awesome and I wait patiently for it. I'm sorry people are causing drama over it, hope things get better for you guys..
foxchild
7 years, 1 month ago
Much as with restaurants whom change what they charge for their food when there's a problem that decreases sales, this is only art to backfire.
ShayFeral
7 years, 1 month ago
Some polite criticism incoming.

This anti-piracy thing you've got going on isn't hurting the "thieves" one bit, the people who are feeling the sting from this price increase are potential supporters and therefor yourself. The people who intend to leak are going to no matter what you do, but supporters are far more fickle. The price increase will likely throttle back most newcomers, some may even find themselves spiteful and seek out these leaked sources, thus giving these leakers more incentive to release your content. Keep this in mind, to these people it's not about money.

I like this comic and I would like to see more of it, but I'm not going to throw any money at it at all if the price keeps going up. I'm not in a very pleasant financial situation that allows me to just throw an amount of money every month. So for me that means I could support this month for say (x) amount of dollars than maybe two more months down the road I'd like to support again and now that amount has doubled, just to have access to a few more pages... Not much incentive really... Especially when you're release the comic for free... I can just wait... Or, I could just go find one of these sources... See how that works?

Now, I'm not here to be deconstructive. I want to make suggestions that might help the comic in the long run. So, first off is that you want to focus on what will bring people to your comic, why should people support it? I have a few suggestions to the comic it's self and how the release cycle is being handled.

1: Do NOT increase the basic subscriber rate!!!
-Instead, don't offer access to the entire back catalogue. Limit it to a small amount of previous material, and allow them the early access to new content. This alone will reduce the incentives for people to leak the content without stepping on the toes of new subscribers.

2: More content per page!!!
-What has been released so far is basically one or two panels per "page", and would take about four pages to make a proper comic page. Doing a proper page that gets to the point rather than dragging it on and on over the course of 5 or 6 pages that could have been done in 1, would encourage more people to subscribe.

3: Release on a schedule
-And keep to it. You should be releasing 1 page publicly for every new page created privately. Typically artists who set up funding pages for projects like this tend to keep the pool between private and public relatively shallow; usually supporters are only a few pages ahead of the public access. The more content you have between public and private, the more likely people will be tempted to leak your content. And the more likely that WILL hurt your subscriber incentives.

My suggestion... Let the public catch up to just a few pages behind subscribers and keep a 1:1 release ratio and a modest pool in between.
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
Hi Shay, thank you for your comments. They are well received, though I'm sad to say that we have tried some of your suggestions in the past to little effect.

It is worth pointing out that you've perhaps misunderstood a few of the factors. For one, the price increase is for new subscribers - it relates to your first point so I'll cover in a moment - but, no, our loyal and continued subscribers are not affected: yes it affects new people coming to the comic, and that's sad, I really wish it was easier to welcome new members for a base $3 a week, but because we are sending image transfers by a private server it means a 1tb server to maintain and the one-time membership fee is necessary to maintain that server - it's also something we consider fair for the amount of digital content it purchases (160 pages). If you were a subscriber, it's just $3 if you have met the threshold in the past. the $3 base membership won't ever change.

To explain a bit more, in response to your point #1 - If we didn't offer the back catalogue then new subscribers would go from page 70-ish to page 160 and not know at all what's going on. As an additional point - the best way we've found to limit leaks has been the "new membership fee" for purchasing the digital content. If a thief could make a new account at $3 to get the next 12 pages every month, be kicked out each month, and make a new account, why not? Hell, I paid $3 by going to a supermarket than a hardware store to pick up a tool i needed. Now if I had to pay $33 for 12 pages? yeah, that's going to sting every month. Sure, I could wait 11 months and save up the $3 a month till i could steal a whole year of the comic, but at that point i've not leaked exclusive content and people's curiosity would draw them to subscribe when faced with a lack of the pages on some god awful sharing site. This is the same reason we have that buffer - exclusive content = a reason to subscribe. Yes, some of our supporters would fund production wholeheartedly, they'd probably do it at a few week's gap, but this way they get a whole chapter ahead for their support.

#2 We've established a visual novel style with single/double pages and narrative focus. I'm sure you can imagine that if we can afford the time to make 12 pages that look like this, we can do that a month or make possibly 3 "proper pages" (let's not get into what is proper here? please be mindful of language...) It's fine that YOU prefer a comic format, maybe with less detailed BGs, more close ups, but, with a 5 person team, we'd have to negotiate what is fair pay on head shots and half panels, I don't imagine we'd be able to afford more than 3-4 pages a month. That's 1-2 pages for free a month. At our current rate people get 4 pages of the story - yes it moves slower because of the visual novel style, but that's a feature of the style. The pros of the style is we can release a page every week for free and 12 to patrons. We would've been releasing 6-8 for free, but with needing to build a buffer due to leaks, we're forced to incentivise supporters with additional content they won't see for free. Think of it as advertising, but also moving the plot forward. It could be worse, we could only post previews and have the comic private, people lose their minds on DA over the censored adult pages (ToS issues).

#3 I'm happy you had critique, I see you produce some of your own art and i'm glad that you've enjoyed this comic despite the VN style not being to your taste, but I'd also ask you to be mindful of generalized advice about our production methods. Sadly, due to the number of team members, we can't stick to a release schedule for our patrons that is stricter than 12-per-month, it can get a little bunched at the end depending on how much our line artist and colorists have on their plates. However as soon as Patreon supporters get 2 pages, the free sites got 1 in 10 minutes. I just announced a weekly schedule in this journal, it will be stuck to - 1 page a week.
ShayFeral
7 years, 1 month ago
I can understand having to purchase previous content, that's fair enough. But to make it a requirement will only throttle newcomers. You've admitted that you have a problem with both retention and new recruits, and while this may not effect those who have supported this project for a period of time, it's going to choke down new supporters.

Leakers don't have all that much of an effect on the patreon model, there are plenty of artists out there who make alot of money off of supporters with as much if not less content to offer; and don't kid yourself, they get leaked too. Some of the more successful artists are actually leaked almost entirely out of spite. You need to realize that there is more at play here than just a few leaks.

You've admitted that you have a problem with both retention and recruitment. Retention isn't often effected by a leak, people who have subscribed to the project for months or even since the beginning. These people have nothing to gain and perks to loose if they drop their subscription in favor of leaked content, for long term patrons to end their support for this reason; the leaks would have to be frequent and reliable. The majority of these people aren't going to drop their support over some leaked content, most likely they're either experiencing financial struggles or they simply don't feel like the content is worth supporting anymore.

New supporters are more likely to be effected by this leak, and here is where it gets interesting. While, yeah, with such a large leak like this; most people aren't going to be inclined to support the comic due to the leak because they're gonna have to pay for the back content they already have access to. However... New supporters CAN and sometimes DO get drawn to a project through leaked material. It's not a defense of the act, but a mere statement of fact.

But you are currently cutting off that option... If you want this project to succeed, you have to encourage new patrons. And not giving them the option to just start paying a tier, they're less inclined to just join in.

There's a point where you have to admit you're addressing the wrong problem, so here, I have new suggestions. Keep in mind I do not know exactly what you have to offer behind that paywall. But these new suggestion might work to attract new people.

Face it, you're doing furry art and in the furry community sex sells. Offer some occasional erotic content on the side of some of the characters. That's one of the biggest criticisms I've read about of this comic is that people want to see these characters start fucking, but the progress of the comic towards that has been so slow and chances are that this pace is hurting your retention. Offering some side art may not only keep some of your usual consumers occupied with some titilating content, but may also draw more attention to the comic.

Hell, some people might even sign up just to simply see Milo finally roll some Coal.
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
Hi Shay. If you don't mind, it seems we have differing opinions on this and we're talking in circles about it now. I think it's best for us both to stop (after all, I do technically get paid the same amount for translating and note responding whether I spend hours explaining our opinions or not. You have the meat of our reasons above and I sadly have another contract deadline today that I need to get paid on).

As I said last messages, your responses are a little prescriptive - for the record it can make people a little defensive to be told what they SHOULD do if they "want to succeed". We are more than familiar with the process - this project is on its third calendar year of funding and everyone involved has worked on multiple crowd funding projects in the past.
As explained, the balance here is providing rewards and discouraging thievery, it's a balance between making it too much trouble for the dishonest (and stopping repeat theft) and encouraging the kind of supporters we've been blessed to have in the majority - no one is confused as to what attracts sponsors the best, but our opinions here differ on what road blocks people are willing to go through, that's fine. I know that "no road blocks" is the best for getting support, but our project manager doesn't want to turn a blind eye to theft and wants to preserve the integrity of the team by reducing risk to our livelihood.

For your reference, leaks DO affect retention: I'm not sure you have a frame of reference for your statements on the fact - that is what the comments above yours and our journal have been about, preventing loss of support due to leaks. Over the multiple projects this team has been involved with: a bad leak on a project like this can cause around a 10% loss in supporters and typically pauses any new supporters for a few months whilst potential audience members who see the leak wait to see if they can get more for free before shelling out themselves. Totally human nature not to want to pay for what you can get for free, and I know it doesn't extend to everyone, there's people who'd give us support regardless as thanks, but that doesn't change that fact.

I'm really not interested in devolving the conversation from our mixed opinions about what you'd do in our case or not, if we feel like this is fucking up support we'll change things later after all - but on your final comment, not only do we offer side art of these characters as a raffle prize option, but we've always been candid that the erotic moments of this romance story will come when we feel they are appropriate.

Sure, sex sells, and there'll be sex, but we're not really interested in totally sacrificing narrative to have a shy character coming to terms with his sexuality like Milo to be slutting around. There'll be more and more adult content as characters are developed - and there'll be a new character introduced soon for supporters whose sexuality will be a lot more overt and will increase the "fuck count" some people are so concerned about - but our supporters have also responded well to the romance and "slow burn" of the building romance between Milo and Coal, which I personally think is a little more realistic for a first romance of a character like Milo.

There'll be eye candy when it's appropriate, but I'm sorry to say that whilst your critique isn't something we feel appropriate to take action on, it's not something we are ignorant of or don't think about: I; as the only english speaking member of this team, who is the community manager on all these art sites and otherwise just the lowly translator; am very concerned about putting off new supporters and I can assure you the decisions are always made with the best balance it mind from other projects we've modeled similarly. I hope you're able to accept that and, either way, thank you for your two cents.
Mircea
7 years, 1 month ago
Just hope people are aware that at least where I looked, most are set on leaking the comic purely to see FAF throw another fit of rage and go into an endless spree of insults and threats, many barely having any interest in the comic altogether. Not saying this as a means of supporting that, just to be clear... I simply thought it's a fact that's fair to bring up. The things that could have been avoided... if only FAF was a decent person that didn't do a perfect job at making everyone hate him.

Raising the entry fee was most likely his idea as well: Whenever the "worms and biomass" steal one of his comics, his response is to raise the price in the delusion that it will surely stop the "monkeys". It's already been proven that such a thing isn't the case of course, and the only thing it achieves is him shooting himself in the foot... but hey, let us play along for the sake of it!
Catastrophecomics
7 years, 1 month ago
Thanks for your input - yes most people love to piss him off and watch the sparks fly.

I'm not really interested in bringing forum arguments between co-workers and trolls onto the free art gallery - this is the only warning for that I'm going to give. "Faf" (not a person, fyi, that was a three person team acronym from a previous project) doesn't read the galleries much and I'm not interested in his google-translated war with people on other sites - It's my job to keep the peace here.
Mircea
7 years, 1 month ago
I agree here. It's good to see that the rest of the team on this project seems to be nice and reasonable, including your replies.
New Comment:
Move reply box to top
Log in or create an account to comment.