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Norithics

Drawing Sub Kink and Social Conditioning

I've been percolating thoughts on this for a while, but needed to refine them a lot before I could say what I wanted.

I'm a switch in a lot of ways. I'm a 50/50 bisexual guy and I like tops and bottoms and both at once. I can play all the roles and I like it plenty, so long as the kink is in service to the sex, and not the other way around.

But even though my preferences are even in art, the reception is not. I love doing femdom; it's neat and fun and subversive... kind of. Except the trouble of time is that the longer you spend in a group, the less impactful those subversions get. Like I run with a socially liberal kind of clique. Well, more like I cultivate it; I try very hard to appreciate and keep friends and acquaintances that run counter to that preference, but it's the kind of person I attract. The numbers are going to favor one over the other through sheer magnetism.

The reason why this matters, personally if not in any larger sense, is that femdom is fun because it's a subversion, a reversal of the normal power dynamic that we see subtly enforced through invisible social pressures. But... for someone like me, who's more often than not pushed against those pressures and hung out with people for whom femdom is a very well-established and well-loved interest (and has had strong women of various types all through his life)... it doesn't feel subversive to me. It feels normal! It's less "Oh my god a woman being dominant" and more "Lady gets more aggressive." I mean it's fun, and I still like it quite a bit, but it doesn't necessarily tickle that thrill of "this is not what's supposed to happen."

For me, I started really embracing in recent years, the maledom side of things. Which is the mirror of femdom, obviously. It asserts the male presence over (at least in my case) female and other male presences for the purposes of a fantasy. Which has been the norm for centuries, but because I have such a different personal experience, feels subversive and taboo to me. I've had such a long standing belief in the equality and empowerment of women that the idea of them being handled gratuitously and with prejudice feels weird and wrong and exciting in the way all taboo-type kinks are. It's the same reason why my whatever-to-bi experimentation kink has largely had to do with lesbians thus far: it isn't that I don't like the idea of doing it with straight and gay men as well, but rather that because of the way I've been raised, the idea of asking a woman to go against her own sexuality is so much more galling in a thrilling way. Like I couldn't even do this kink iRL; I'd die of embarrassment.

This has had two knock-on effects that I don't necessarily like: 1. It passively attracts the kind of person who believes this is appropriate behavior outside of a fantasy. I don't mind pushing these people away, I don't want to entertain the notions of someone who unironically writes for a Pick Up Artist site. And, 2. It's brought the ire of some who don't like seeing (ladies especially) subjected to this kind of treatment. Which I can understand to a point, I mean the existence of the previous list item is all the justification you need there. But at the same time... I really don't get up in the morning to be moralized and kinkshamed over something that, should I draw the equivalent with switched roles or two of the same sex, will get nothing but praise.

I mean don't get me wrong, this isn't an epidemic. I've only gotten a handful or two of these kinds of comments. But it does make me feel like I have to somehow thread a needle, letting two halves of my interest never touch even though they both came from the same person: Me. At the same time, I'm not gonna hide any part of what I like; that would be inauthentic and you can't hide anything on the Internet anyway.

Bottom line: I'm a big ball of complicated feelings that likes femdom and femsub and I'm not gonna stop drawing either. If you don't like 'em, block the tags and add 'bondage' and 'semicon' in there for good measure.
Viewed: 358 times
Added: 7 years, 6 months ago
 
YukiAkuma
7 years, 6 months ago
I have nothing constructive to say.

But wow, you are way more introspective than most people who draw ridiculous porn
Darksorm
7 years, 6 months ago
Makes sense to me! Perspective changes everything, though alot of people don't seem to see that!
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
Yeah! Definitely.
I mean if you wanna kinkshame me, do it for a legitimate reason- like that I unironically listen to Vaporwave.
Darksorm
7 years, 6 months ago
Ive never really been in that boat, a little too closed to have people attacking my interests directly (Or they're too plain :P)
Can't legitimately Kinkshame for something I had to google :P Buttttt I think I gotta give it a listen!
bloodyneko
7 years, 6 months ago
This was the first vaporwave song I ever heard, and it got me into the genre - https://youtu.be/XxuiJUMun7A
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
At first it felt too noisy. But I got lost in how crisp it was.
Leviathan1313
7 years, 5 months ago
I myself don't like to kinkshame, everyone has their own thing and that's always been cool with me.
BigFatMilf
7 years, 6 months ago
Personally you're not exactly doing anything wrong.
I have a friend who's into that kind of stuff as well, however he's a respectful person as well who wouldn't dare do anything like that in real life.
As long as it's in fiction I personally think it's perfectly fine.
People who whine and bitch about someone drawing something doesn't get the concept of fiction, if they bitch and complain about a drawing, why not do the same about movies, shows, books, ect.
It's because "if the artist is drawing it they must be one sick fuck".
Which is a dumb as fuck belief anyways. People seem to try and blur the lines between reality and fiction all the time.
Even though comparing the two things is just something that really makes me feel a great bout of disappointment towards them.

An example of this is how you draw younger characters. Does that mean you wanna fuck kids? HELL NO.
But I guess some people don't really get that. Some people just refuse to understand and accept that sometimes they're wrong.

Keep doing what makes you happy and I hope you can sort out any of these problems as soon as ya can :>
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
I would greatly enjoy a future where people can be trusted to walk and chew bubblegum at once- to enjoy fantasies and know that they are in fact just fantasies.
KNIFE
7 years, 6 months ago
Ya that would be nice.
Maybe some day...in the future.....some day....
BigFatMilf
7 years, 6 months ago
Well, the thing I don't really get, is I've been following you for ages and you seem to be one of the least offensive artists I've ever come across.
If you wanna say something, you kinda will. But ontop of which a lot of the time it's needed. I feel that if you're getting attacked for mere thoughts of fantasy, well, that's just really pathetic in the end.
Let people be who they want to be if it's not hurting anyone, y'know?
Exelbirth
7 years, 6 months ago
A toast to that idealistic future!

I wonder, do more reality based cultures have an easier time separating reality and fantasy?
BessiTheBat
7 years, 6 months ago
There's a kink that's actually pretty common...at least, more common than most people think...called 'objectification'. It's generally the enjoyment of being thought of as an object. Usually a sex object. There are some girls out there that enjoy the kink very much. Being used, bought, sold, and the like are all turn-ons for girls like that. As long as everyone is getting their jollies, I don't see a problem with it.

And as a girl who likes to be objectified even though I believe in empowerment as much as you do, it's fun to play out those fantasies and the like and see pictures of that stuff.

I don't know. There are people out there who are genuinely fucked up and need help, and shouldn't be objectifying themselves. They have issues that they need to work out that letting any old asshole use their bodies won't help. But it's sort of paternalistic and shitty to assume all girls who like getting taken advantage of are that way because they're actually getting taken advantage of, that they don't genuinely find enjoyment in it and need to be 'saved'. One of the big problems with the second wave feminist movement was that, though it espoused the idea that women should have a choice, it pressured women into choosing a career and the like instead of finding what they want in life. Being a housewife and a fuckslave is sometimes exactly what a woman wants, and that should be respected. Everyone just needs to be more open, more willing to be self-reflective, and have more access to help if they need it. But if they don't, if they want their legs spread and their pussies fucked, then trying to 'save' them from that is just as bad as forcing a woman into that situation if they don't want it.

Hope this helps.
ColeSutra
7 years, 6 months ago
Hmmmm..

*Jots down an idea where Falls Apart Frankie has captured Jake, Razzle, and Dazzle..  And is femmedomming all over Jake, pushing him around into giving Dazzle (who's flesh and blood) a hard dicking in front of Razzle (who's in rubber form).  Jake all nervous because while Dazzle's rubber body would be just fine..that big ol' otaku donger of his could bust her pussy up something fierce.  Dazzle unable to help but let her thoughts and reactions get telepathically projected around, going from a range of "Maybe this wasn't a good idea..!" and "T-too big! Way too big!" As Jake squeezes it in her, Frankie slapping his chubby ass with a paddle or riding crop any time he hesitates.  To "Why does something that hurt so much feel so good?!" and "Oh -fuck-, I love the tingle when those balls slap my clit!".  All the while, Razzle's unable to help but begrudgingly love every voyeuristic second of the display--even if she really doesn't..Jake having gotten a bit -too- into his role, with Frankie only needing to put the spurs to him to keep up appearances of her control over the situation..  Jake's gonna be getting it from her just as bad as he's getting it from Frankie later...when she turns the tables on Frankie and uses her disembodied ass like an onahole on Jake for a week.*

Lessie here..  Femmedomme, check.  Semicon, check.  Gay-to-bi, double-check.  Maledom, check.  Kinky comeuppance, check~
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
Ggh... fhhh... you're trying to kill me!
Kupok
7 years, 6 months ago
Sexuality is weird and complicated. Done properly, sexuality is a matter of the heart, a matter of feelings, and feelings do not follow logic. Feelings are complicated and often contradictory.

I love your works. It explores feelings, it explores those complications. You likely already figured this out, but never restrict yourself for fear someone may dislike it my friend. Please keep exploring.
bloodyneko
7 years, 6 months ago
>I'm a switch in a lot of ways. I'm a 50/50 bisexual guy and I like tops and bottoms and both at once. I can play all the roles and I like it plenty
It's like looking in a mirror! Though perhaps a bit dusty and smudgy from my side if I were to delve deeper in comparison of myself to you, haha~

I'm a dude, Bisexual, a switch who enjoys playing with both passionate tops and needy bottoms, 1 or 2 partners at once. I'm primarily a powerbottom. Despite most of the art I've commissioned showing Toyger as a 'top', I've still got a few pics here and there of him being topped or powerbottoming. I've also done an innumerable amount of RP's over the past 10 years of him either riding in someone's lap or being mounted.

>I'm a big ball of complicated feelings that likes femdom and femsub
Pretty much the same here! I personally find it difficult to put Toyger into maledom situations unless it's over an antagonist sort of character -- like an SJW caricature or a villain/villainess from a cartoon/anime/video game; it makes the fantasy more palatable. A "why let perfectly good bodies go to waste with violence, when you can bang them instead?" sort of deal.

On the other end of things, I enjoy light femdom. I prefer Assertiveness and Lustiness, actual -sex- stuff as opposed to choking and ball-crushing type sadomasochism. Take my sona's sister, Ayako, for example. When she goes into heat, she'll become one-track-minded and do whatever it takes to get herself off. Even if it means waking him up in the middle of the night by riding him, forcing herself onto her brother in public, or locking the breakroom door at their work and keeping him pinned down until she gets what she wants. And if it still counts as femdom, from time to time she'll go dickgirl/futa with the help of a certain special transformative and go balls-deep in her femboy brother.

Overall, it appears most of your fans, myself included, share a lot of your kinks and are mature enough to understand that drawing a fantasy isn't a tacit endorsement of it in real life. You just keep doing you, and we'll have your back if anyone gets [TRIGGERED] by your art :3
Salacious
7 years, 6 months ago
I'm amused because you are actually coming from an angle that I'm very familiar with. I'm a dominant male because I -have- no control in my life, the domination aspect is sexy to me because, I'll be blunt, my existance is a hellscape designed to chip away at my very self until nothing is left but a work-drone, and I'm disturbingly ok with that as long as I have outlets to at least make me feel like I have control in my fantasies.

The vorarephilia fandom, in particular, is 90%+ straight submissive males who are seeking an escape from lives where they are forced to take control of things or be responsible for things they don't want to, and that leads to it being almost entirely femdom content. I have a very... iffy relationship with Herms and Futa/D-girls (But oddly not the folks who go by 'shemale' because every one I've met has been nothing but sweet to everyone) because in vore, they're usually wholesale replacements for males so that none are allowed to exist, up to and including the vast majority of the established settings that people seem to use in that fandom literally not acknowledging males as existing, or relegating them to being automatically put into the position of submissives, whether the players desire them to be or not, which makes it when a dominant male (or godess forbid a predator) shows up that person is often attacked and ostracized by the more vocal parts of the straight and homophobic portion of the fandom.

Because of this the taboo idea of dominating a lady became a kink that I really enjoy, be it in the terms of that specific kink or any other. The fact that some of my favorite partners are lady-types and bring a sort of emotional enthusiasm for the play that I rarely see from a lot of male partners who are more sexuall focused has sort of engrained that as something super sexy for me.

I do my best to respect everyone, not just ladies and not just gents, but a lot of the time I catch flak for wanting to dole out my naughtiness equally to males and females, and worst of all I seem to get it from both males and females who just decide for me that what I want isn't what I actually want or isn't what I should want.

In the end I still choose to just ignore those people, block tags I don't like and try to take everything with a grain of salt so I can enjoy even the things that remind me of them to whatever extent I can. But fuck if it isn't an uphill battle.  I dunno, rambling but my two cents on it. I understand where you're coming from since my own stance is similar if not quite the same, and I think that anyone who is judging you because of a goddamn sexual kink, something your subconscious decides for you anyway, they need to take a step back and re-examine their life.

PS: Man we are some wordy motherfuckers up in here. Emotion/motivation nerds.
blessedwasthechild
7 years, 6 months ago
I can really understand that sentiment of trying to find what is taboo without it clashing with what you feel is right, and not wanting to alienate anyone. It would be a lot worse for me if I had some sort of standing with anyone. You've got a pretty dedicated base so it only seems inevitable that some unpleasantness would come across you.
I know how you feel about wanting to do what feels sexy without it reaffirming the people who try to get away with bad behavior irl.
Jasiven
7 years, 6 months ago
As someone who was raised by a single mother, that might explain why I'm exclusively into maledom and utterly bored by femdom. Huh.
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
Yeah! There's a decent chance. Not necessarily threatened by female power, just... not excited by it! It's too normal to our experiences.
LoZeed
7 years, 6 months ago
Oh man, the stories that could be told regarding our fetishes and self discovery. Being out of the ordinary is a major spark but it's much more deep than that (most of the time) You could probably write a book on this, your good with words.  
DBunner
7 years, 6 months ago
What it all boils down to is that, sadly, some people aren't going to like all the things you serve up in one way or another. But that's okay. Honestly there's little to no issue of morality in the matter simply because, as you stated, this is all fantasy. Your artwork is made to peruse and to visualize kinks, fetishes, scenarios and more that either can't take place in reality, are unlikely to take place in reality, or could take place, but aren't near so fun or engrossing as they might be in reality. What's more is that, from what I have seen of your works, you aren't drawing scenarios where a lesbian character is being dominated by a male and hating it. (Of course, I could be wrong and have missed something, I could be terrible at that, or simply not remember a particular piece.)

Now that may be the trouble to some people, that you are portraying somebody whom is a lesbian enjoying intercourse with a male, but judging by the general 'outcome' of these drawings the real focus is just an exploration of a kink as well as the fact that both subjects are enjoying it. You don't have a male character doing something cruel like 'hate fucking' some poor, unsuspecting lesbian. It's merely a show of sexual creatures giving into temptations that are not in their norm.

If you were to put it into reverse, that is the 'straight/secretly bi/gay/curious guy having sex with another guy' scenario (which you have done, if I remember a particular piece involving Milkie from way back correctly), it probably wouldn't and didn't get flak, and if you were to have a gay male 'dommed' into having sex with and enjoying sex with a female, once again, I feel you'd probably not get much whiplash from it.

But, honestly, at this point? I'm ramblin'. It's your artwork and we are your audience, delighted or non by such pieces (I, myself, am often and very much delighted to see your name under a new submission), and we are more than capable of turning our heads and no longer being so if we want. Personally I haven't looked away yet and don't feel I ever will be.
Eviscerator
7 years, 6 months ago
To be perfectly honest, it seems like maledom is growing more taboo socially.
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
It depends where you are. For instance, you know where you can find the most degrading, absolutely filthy femsub material in large amounts?

Tumblr.

And these aren't holdouts, or weird people come to take a stand; these are the alt blogs of people who are otherwise pretty much your average Tumblr user- female more often than not, in my experience. And from it you get an impression of "Yes I want access to birth control and better child care and bitch don't you kinkshame me." And although it may seem cognitively dissonant, it's that way for a reason: Sex-negative feminism has never won a battle, ever. It shows up in small pockets to stir the pot, and it's loud, and it gets attention. But it doesn't really get what it wants, generation after generation, because, well, of course it doesn't. People want sex, by and large, no matter what else they want, and they're perfectly happy to pick and choose from their philosophies. There might be some deliberations that went their way by accident, but follow the trail and you'll trace it back to Religion every time, which has a much longer, much stronger track record of suspecting the wicked nature of man's sexual urges.

The taboo nature of male-based dominance in the context of sexual fantasy is in the state that it's in because it exists in a confluence between worlds: a social order that holds equality in theory, if not always perfectly in practice, versus one (many, really) that are still holding out on these matters- and they exist even within the Western world, still. We're feeling very focused growing pains essentially because what it means to be male has shifted a great deal in very little time, and nothing has rushed to fill the void. It's kind of uncharted territory, which can be good but also intensely negative for men and boys just trying to carve their piece out of the world.
Jasiven
7 years, 6 months ago
Interesting thing in my experience is that I know a girl who describes herself as a radical feminist... but she utterly loves submitting to guys, in her RP-fantasies. In as many degrading ways as possible. In some aspects it's so extreme that I worry about the dichotomy.
Norithics
7 years, 6 months ago
Yeah! It's more common than you'd intuitively imagine.
I don't think there's anything necessarily dangerous about it. As long as everything remains in control, it's fine.
FelouseFarnayne
7 years, 6 months ago
I for one am a "variety is the spice of my life" kind of person. I swing from one interest to the next and due to my interest in both male and females but in a blind kind of way where I look to more the person's personality I find having a female who can be both sub and dom equally fun and enjoyable. The idea of someone being sub to you one day and then surprise you with dominance is another matter entirely that I for find enjoyable.

Reason I bring this up because I feel its important for people to be able to enjoy and share what they love as long as it doesn't oppress another person in the process. So I tend to be quite open to males and females of all kinds of flavours, personalities and interests, some may not appeal to me but I can understand and get it and let them enjoy what they like without shame since I think no one should hold that power to make people feel like they are less of a person for liking something different to the norm. This saddens me sometimes whenever I hear someone feels they can't be free to be themselves around people and maybe even feel trapped for that reason. Its a depressing thought not everyone gets that just because we all have our different interests it won't change anything in their life at all.

Sorry if I babbled too much here and hope I at least made a slight meagre of sense.
OliverJarvis
7 years, 6 months ago
Its all or nothing. cant complain about one fetish and indulge in another. I have all things cub/ underage blocked, but I don't honestly give a fuck. People are different. Do it if it hurts no one.
rick2tails
7 years, 6 months ago
theres no way to please everyone.I try my best to shut up about what I dont like.
TsukiWulf
7 years, 6 months ago
You do what you want to do man, if people get offended that is their problem.
dmflat
7 years, 6 months ago
I honestly wouldn't have much problem with femdom in light situations, but, and I'm not sure how I picked this up, even so much as one small step up opens a dark door for me. In passing I've had various male characters who have either become celibate as a result of a near-death experience in femdom or were just outright killed...
Milkie
7 years, 6 months ago
I was acquainted for a brief time with someone who was into femdom. I became acutely aware of her interests when she started berating me when we first met, saying she'd break me, step on my balls, and that I was weak, and she could make me do whatever she wanted.

I had simply made the go-to "kitchen joke," and she in turn moved to immediately emasculate me. It was a little jarring due to it not being one-quarter as playful and not-serious as my joke had meant to be. She was serious. She was dead serious. And I thought, "Well, that's a little disconcerting considering I just met this girl. Maybe I'll go talk to someone else."

I've thought about it plenty, and what I could chalk the reaction up to. Defense mechanism maybe, or maybe she was just joking in turn... but if she was, she has one hell of a poker face.
Seth65
7 years, 6 months ago
I know I discovered such a kink recently, so I'm happy to find someone else that shares it, in some respects at least. I suppose the issue is just that a number of people haven't seen how the taboo has changed, and combined with the seemingly constant societal turmoil these days it's not too surprising some people would take issue with it. Hopefully it's only a few corner cases though. I hope other artists aren't scared out of drawing it because of that. But then this very site is filled to the brim with cub porn, which is equally frowned upon, so who knows.
Stush
7 years, 6 months ago
I understand this completely! like, you know me, you know what i'm like, politically, you know how I feel about a lot of stuff, i'm pretty clear on that, I think!

There's a few kinks I have that would probably seem REALLY confusing to anyone who knows me well enough, Like, I don't particularly like them, but I have them and I have to live with them. And because of that, I find it really hard to judge anyone by what turns them on, like, I know it's not really something you can control.

I dunno how good I am at being submissive, I'm always a bit cautious about that kind of thing because I've met a lot of dudes online who think being dominant means being a rude asshole outside of playing around, and when I tell them what they're doing wrong, they pretty much always respond in a way that makes me block them. With that kind of RP there's gotta be a real solid line between playtime and regular time, I think. And I think that sort of plays into one of the problems you've been having. I'm always fine with kinks as long as I know that's what they're being. But when I can't tell if it's just something someone is into or a deep seated belief/attitude that person has, that's when it gets a little worrying. And I think a lot of the time people err on the side of caution.

I know you, so I know you're just about one of the safest people I could be around! Hopefully this journal helps with others a bit. <3
tkongingi
7 years, 5 months ago
I don't feel comfortable with humiliation and degradation based kinks in general. I like to fantasize I'm powerful and virile, but imagining myself as a douchebag just turns me off.

Living in a culture that's drowning in machismo, and being incapable of unseeing the damage it does around me, soured me on maledom further. I mean, I don't enjoy degrading femdom, but the converse often gets me outright upset. It doesn't help that so much maledom I run across feels less like fun and more like a true believer using sex to make a point. If there's something that gets the intellectual in me angry is people projecting their personal preferences as universal imperatives.
Norithics
7 years, 5 months ago
I could see that. It really does just depend on your environment.
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