Inkbunny

You got a point there...
I hope it doesn't become what i think Weasyl is turning into. An SJW controlled server, that just complies whatever new rule they come up with.

DjijeyHellfire

7 years, 10 months ago

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It most likely will, Weasyl caved into pressure and now it's become a SJW safe-haven, if FN isn't careful they will become exactly the same, just another website catering to popular ideas instead of their own principles about freedom of expression.

Let's hope i'm wrong, let's hope they go back on the decision once the site goes live and all the features are live.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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If that happens, it would be really a shame.
I rather use FA than a SJW infested server.

DjijeyHellfire

7 years, 10 months ago

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It really would.
If that happens i'll happily risk my private info than staying on a site that bans everything.

Hornybunny

7 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 10 months ago by Owner

Completely agreed.
I even put that on my profile there.

DjijeyHellfire

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Hornybunny

mhmm, just sad it had to come to this.

Farrel

7 years, 10 months ago

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Sad but true... Once the mob realises it has power, the demands will only ever increase.

The joke counter-request that got removed https://img.lulz.net/src/dsfsdfasdf.png might actually come back as a genuine demand later.

DjijeyHellfire

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Farrel

It will come back, once the mob know their true power after having banned the most obscure of fetishes will go after the more mainstream that are illegal when applied to real life.

Farrel

7 years, 10 months ago

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Well said there! Bravo!

As I've said elsewhere, I think that whilst disappointing, the shift to ban cub art was probably a smart move over all.

I totally agree with the notion that furry needs a new web-capital as the administration of FA has grown entirely too complacent towards it's user base and that perhaps FN could be just that.

In a way, I'm rather glad that inkbunny has gotten the stigma it has. It means that the users that do stay here tend to be more open-minded in general.

Inkbunny has the nicest community, in my opinion. I hope that doesn't change. Hopefully FN can take the lead in terms of raw population calling it home. Hopefully FN will either prove to be vastly better than FA, or will at least frighten FA into genuine improvement.

But yeah :) If FN or FA are to be the capital city for furries on the internet? Hopefully Inkbunny will remain the comparatively quiet and pleasant little suburb where life is nice and people are reasonable ;)

I'll be keeping my FN account, that's for sure.

Meowz

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Farrel

I wouldn't call it smart move. More like tragic, just like when Mohammed caricaturists are shunned.

Farrel

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Meowz

Tragic, yes... lacking in artistic integrity, yes... and especially that they went back on their word, as DjijeyHellfire pointed out.

But as a starting up website goes, they need to increase their user base... I think they'll get more people signing up with a combination of grudgingly-accepting-of-no-cub users and I-hate-cub-and-wouldnt-use-the-site-if-its-allowed users than the alternative.

Smart in the short term, perhaps... I guess... I hope *Shrugs and smiles*

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Farrel

Even with a few hundred watchers on FA, i have met 3 trolls and obnoxious people there.
So far, none on IB. But even though it has less traffic than FA, i receive way more feedback here, (faves, comments and watches per drawing) than in the other servers combined, except Pixiv.
It's one of the reasons IB is my favorite. Because of the nice community.

Meowz

7 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 10 months ago by Owner

Without journals, the social factor is completely out the window. Plus, I can't post *any* of my stuff there. I can forget about having a backup there. It's just a mindless sea of tagged images now, with comments, and that is it. Also, I hate that I can't use pages anywhere. I'll have to memorize which pictures I've seen last, everywhere, instead of what page I was on. Gives me no sense of time and progress. Bah.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ Meowz

Like i said, it's a shame about the cub ban. Now that i mostly draw it, my uploads will be cut by a lot in there too.
To be honest, i haven't used it that much. I just browsed the art, and i haven't uploaded anything so far, but i've been waiting for a server to beat FA for so long now... specially in the last 3 years. I support the idea of people leaving FA behind.

Musuko42

7 years, 10 months ago

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"Competent furries".

My comments from when I took a look at Furrynetwork. It may have changed since, of course:

1 - I can see acceptable use policy and a code of conduct, but I can't see any proper terms of service; no mention of copyright, nor of liability agreements, nor even which legal jurisdiction the site falls under.

2 - Aside from some staff furnames and email addresses, I can't find any details on the identity of the site owners. Whois offers no clues.

These two points give me the impression of a worrying lack of professionalism, and it disturbs me that so many furries are eager to throw their intellectual property at a site that has no clear statement of what they'll do with it, and no confirmation of who owns the site.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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I haven't thought of that...
I know it's not an excuse that they are still in beta, as they are already accepting uploads, but i think they would be willing to solve those questions thought their support system if you ask them. https://support.furrynetwork.com/

Musuko42

7 years, 10 months ago

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The thing is, I shouldn't need to ask. A clearly-written terms-of-service should be one of the first things you see. The lack of it sets off all sorts of warning bells for me.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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Hmm... e621 mentions copyright and has Terms of service, and they are owned by the same people if i recall.
You're right. I guess i'll wait until it's cleared out before posting.
I would still like to ask them if you don't mind, to see what they have to say about that.

Musuko42

7 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 10 months ago by Owner

Of course I don't mind. :P Be sure to let me know what they say when you ask. :D

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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Sure :)

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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Hey! They took some time to respond but they finally did it. I couldn't link you the post until it was accepted by the moderators.
I hope you don't mind i gave you credit with your user name.

https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/1021-terms-of-s...

In short, they accepted they were lacking those, and they are planning to fix it. (hopefully)

Musuko42

7 years, 10 months ago

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That's a really good response! Please pass on my thanks, and perhaps ask them to contact me when they have all that up and running, so I can give their site another look (benjamartin@gmail.com or here, or FA).

I'm still a little concerned that they went live before getting those important details established. But I'm happy to wait and see what they do in future.

Thank you for letting me know what they said. :)

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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Sure! I´ll forward your answer :)
And no problem

WideWindyWaters

7 years, 10 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 10 months ago by Owner

See the thing is FA's equipment is run by a single person, not a 'corporation', and FN is run by businessmen so I think you have that bit backwards.

I made a journal about it not too long ago. Personally I'm calling Tartii out on being a hypocritical sheep herder but there's pros and cons to whatever FN's decision is. I'll be pissed if the decision is passed because of Tartii fanboys salivating over whatever she says than people using their own opinions.

There's also the fact that FN hasn't actually shown any measure of legitimacy as a fur site and people are just flocking there to scapegoat Dragoneer's poor IT skills.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ WideWindyWaters

Unfortunately, I understand that it has been passed https://blog.furrynetwork.com/2016/05/28/content-policy...

My grudge against FA is not just because of the Dragoneer's poor IT skills, but because of his decisions that harm the community, and how he refuses to take help from willing people, or sabotages the help he finally gets. For example, the passwords being insecurely stored have been a reported issue back in 2011.
Also, how he hasn't notified the users by email of the information breach.

You got a point on FN being owned by a company even if they are furries, but FA's equipment being run by a single person is arguable. Dragoneer is just a figure head behind IMVU.

Zobos

7 years, 10 months ago

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The funny thing, is 'FA fault' if they have a good security like IB, then nothing of this would happen, or at least, not in this way

VileFiend

7 years, 10 months ago

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Most of these rules and laws involving restrictions on art are generally completely arbitrary and nonsensical. In the end, they're works of complete fiction, where the only thing that's "threatened" by them is people's dainty sensibilities. For that, the viewer's own discretion and ability to choose whether or not to view something is more than sufficient to solve that issue.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ VileFiend

Yeah... as I mentioned in the last paragraph, they fail to see the irony of allowing rape and gore and banning cub stuff (even consensual happy pics)
For them, fiction is fiction, unless it's about cub.

OneManArmy

7 years, 10 months ago

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It kind of is a legal issue. Many countries would consider cub to be CP. People have been arrested and charged for CP with shota and loli stuff. So if the server is in a country where it is considered CP, the site owners would be legally liable. It's a very grey legal line, but it's there.

They really should have simply said "We're doing this for legal reasons." and end it at that. But naturally furries must create drama for anything and everything.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 10 months ago

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@ OneManArmy

Hopefully the law will change some day, like sodomy laws in the UK or the US.

Ash62

7 years, 8 months ago

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It seems like sofurry is the only one that doesn't ban SOMETHING. What's the point of all these new furry sites when they're all the same problem?

Hitsunekun

7 years, 8 months ago

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I understand banning shota here because of the law in the country this server is based in, or banning cub on FA because otherwise it wouldn't be able to take donations, but the ban of cub in FN was totally unnecessary.

I do like that there are several websites competing for users instead of just one. Competition is good, as websites improve to try and stay relevant.
FA has stalled for a decade, and barely trying to do updates now that people are getting tired/bored of it and trying the other websites.

Ash62

7 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 7 years, 5 months ago by Owner

I still say it's really stupid for stuff that isn't even real people to be illegal or even banned in any way

Thought police much?

Hitsunekun

7 years, 5 months ago

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I know... I agree with you.
Lawmakers can't distinguish fiction from reality, but they can still send the owner of the site to jail for hosting doodles of fictional people.

I don't know where SoFurry is hosted though, to be able to work around those laws.

Ash62

7 years, 5 months ago

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Uh...America? Last time I checked, pornographic drawings of fictional characters wasn't illegal, especially non-humans.

Hitsunekun

7 years, 5 months ago

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It's not just pornography of fictional characters.  That would be okay.
The problem is when there are minors , even if they don't or can't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_p...

I know they only refer to shota/loli, not imaginary creatures like furry characters, but the law is so ambiguous that they could be covered by that.  Check the Idaho case involving simpsons porn.
It´s not just that the law is rather ambiguous there, but also it's the Web Host decision, for example goDaddy web host don't allow porn content (including adult porn content)

Ash62

7 years, 5 months ago

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Its a stupid law that needs to be changed. It's not real, ergo it's not hurting anyone. What's next, thought police?

Hitsunekun

7 years, 5 months ago

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I know, I agree with you.
But until the law is changed, the owners of the sites are legally bound to the content they host in their sites, according to the law of the country the physical server is in.

Ash62

7 years, 3 months ago

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If that's true, and it really is a law, then they're doing a really shitty job of enforcing it.

Salmy

7 years, 7 months ago

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When Inkbunny went live, everyone wanted to make the jump, and it was effectively going to be the one server that will finally beat FA out of the first place, but then the artists saw there was cub art here, and stopped posting completely, and went back to FA.
It was not part of the reason... Cub art was -The- reason for them not to make the jump.

It wasn't like that!

When IB went live, it was a place where everybody signed up, all kind of artists because it had something innovative: you could order prints, sell digital images, all from the same place, using easy alertpay transactions.

That was more or less the first year of IB life. Then *suddenly* alertpay banned FA, SF and us from doing business with them, so all of us needed to make a decision: comply with their demands of removing PORN (not cub) from our sites or they wouldn't want to keep on doing business with us.

Furaffinity then decided to put the blame on cubs because peer pressure (if you didn't allow cub, they would have never banned you, it was because of the cubs!), when that was not true at all. But yes, peer pressure was stronger, and they gave in to that: they banned cub porn.

Suddenly, cub artists couldn't be in FA anymore, and they had two options: SF or IB. They /couldn't/ stay on FA for much longer, they had to make the move yes or yes, it was not an option (well, or quit producting/posting cub art altogether), so what happened was a massive exodus from FA to IB, the artists and their followers. Suddenly IB grew a bunch.

And since it grew a bunch with a lot of cub artists and fans, the place got filled with cub art. But IB has always allowed the same kind of content, the kind of content FA allowed by then, and the kind of content SF still allows as well.

It is true that with the YEARS, the 'cub paranoia' got louder and louder, so some artists decided to quit (at least publically) using IB or producing cub art.

I think that giving in to peer pressure or, what's worse, 'strong pressure by a loud minority' is not something anybody should do if they want to run a site. You run a site, you run it along with /your/ philosophy, not others'. If not, in the end you will lack of personality and you will never make a difference. Cuz if you have the same site as others, why would people want to migrate to the new one?

Hitsunekun

7 years, 7 months ago

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@ Salmy

I see... Sorry for that, I wasn't well informed then, and also believed the rumors FA spread blaming the cub porn. But it's true that new sites get stalled in growth due to most of the high profile artists not posting in there, and them not bothering posting because they don't get as much feedback as in FA. I just wanted another site to reach critical mass and take off.

I should make a new journal though, as i no longer support Furry Network after seeing the same privileged treatment popufurs get there (just like in FA), namely the Zaush comic not being taken down, even when one of the characters is clearly a minor.
Also the issues Musuko42 mentions in his comment https://inkbunny.net/journalview.php?id=231765#commenti...
After 3 months, they only responded with promises to fix those, but nothing else so far.

Oh, also thank you for the faves and the watch!

Salmy

7 years, 7 months ago

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