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Tahla

No longer on FN

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Account is still there of course, but I unlisted everything but the 2 most recent feral pics. I've already got FA that I have to curate my uploads for, I don't need another shinier FA. I was excited to have another place that was all inclusive, but nope. I may reopen it in the future once the site's more developed, but as it stands I just don't have a reason to mess with a website I can only upload half my work too, and never get any views on anyway because it's in beta and only occupied by other artists there to post work, and popufurs.

I like how FA being such a failure has managed to rub it's discriminatory BS onto other websites. How lovely. :/ Bad timing I guess!

EDIT: Just to clarify, I may be vocal in my opinion, but I have nothing against FN! They made the decision based on, as so many people have put it in the last few days, what was right for them at the time. The site just doesn't serve my needs at present, so I'm not going to upload there anymore. I'm hoping to return there, and hopefully drop FA, once the site is expanded and busier, and has more of it's features fleshed out.

Honestly, uploading consistantly between 4 galleries was a hassle anyway. @-@;; I dunno how people who have ALL the galleries do it! I haven't checked my DA in months!
Viewed: 111 times
Added: 7 years, 10 months ago
 
Weiss
7 years, 10 months ago
*claps* Let's all stay on IB where it's safe
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
Exactly! I already have an FA account, don't need to support another website that won't support me! If I didn't occasionally get commissions through them, I'd roll that up too-  one less place to mess with.
Keeran
7 years, 10 months ago
psst, you should check this out. https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/969-/
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
Hahaha, that's awesome. Won't go anywhere, but still awesome!
omnomrawr
7 years, 10 months ago
That link has been removed.
KitRyuu
7 years, 10 months ago
I believe the side that wanted cub stuff banned had some legit concerns. I myself feel a little uncomfortable associating myself with even inkbunny. Ultimately I support the decision they made and how they came about it.

I still see potential in FN and i hope people will stick around at least to see where it goes and to not do exactly what the other side threatened to do if they had lost and just leave.
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
Oh I'll check the website out when it's more developed, I sjut don't really have a use for it as it is right now. I can only post a portion of my work, and pretty much never get more then 5 or 10 views on anything. It's just not worth it to me to help support a site that doesn't really support me by supporting the full spread of work that I do. I feel like it'll be better once there are more then just artists there posting their work, and more people there for browsing. If anything, all the hubbub showed just how few people even knew about FN, because I saw TONS of journals from people who had literally just discovered they existed.

Either way, the anti-cub groups concerns were arguable, and I do not support the decision they made, and while I appreciate them breaking it down in a well written format, they seriously dropped the ball months ago when they launched the site to begin with. This argument has been made dozens of times before, they should have thought through what their decision was inevitably going to be when it eventually came up, and banned cub art from the start. There was no reason to get people's hopes up that it would actually be an all inclusive website.
OfflineUser
7 years, 10 months ago
The thing is, they truly believed that they would be able to do it. and who knows, maybe they could have been all-inclusive.
They had plans in the works that could have worked, in the form of the default blacklist (many a general user would have never even looked into the settings enough to even know it was a thing)

But it seems that the issue arose primarily due to the fact that the FA code leak/downtime/password reset caused a much larger influx of new people and art than they expected at the time, pushing the chance to put the blacklist in place out the window.
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
I personally think they should have stood by their initial decision- yes, they got some bad publicity, and yes, several of the popufurs would have refused to join the site, at least for the time being (and not necessarily a bad thing for the community overall). But I feel they would have recovered, especially if they do as good a job with what their planning as everyone hopes they do. Those people would likely have returned if an appropriate solution had been worked out and followed through. It was a case of bad timing if anything, and while I disagree, I can understand them not wanting to potentially delay the progress of their website and turn away some of the people they could steal from FA.

It would have been nicer if the discussions could have been more focused on ways to include all members of the community, rather then 'should we ditch these people or not'- it always seems the cub supporters are way more interested in finding solutions that could work for everyone (and they can/do exist), then the anti-cub people are. That's partly why I feel the potential legal issues for most anti-cub people are simply a paper shield for them. Yes, those reasons are potentially of consequence, but in reality for most of the people complaining, they don't like, and don't agree with it- the 'legal gray area' is an excuse they can use so they don't have to say 'I don't like this, therefore it shouldn't be here". I totes understand that. No one wants to feel like they're discriminating, because we all know it's wrong.

Overall, it's a case of 'I totally get why you're doing this, but it still sucks, and at the end of the day may be a good business decision, but it's a pretty crappy decision in every other way'.
OfflineUser
7 years, 10 months ago
It admittedly is a bit funny to look at the FN code of conduct and still see:
 
"(REFUSAL TO USE) BLACKLIST
...
[No] Posting comments that complain about, or otherwise disrespect, artwork that can be blacklisted"
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
That is definitely the best thing I've read all day on the subject! *giggles*
Telain
7 years, 10 months ago
I don't agree with the decision partially because they had 2 options, discriminate and ban it, or finish setting up their mandatory blocked tags system. It could be even better to block tags based on rating.

The arguments about people not tagging are useless. They just implement punishments for repeat offenders. And FA still gets cub posted occasionally either trolling or an honest mistake.
KitRyuu
7 years, 10 months ago
The reason I agree with their decision is not because I think they did what was right but because I think they did what was right for their situation. We aren't necessarily their audience FA users are. Especially given the FA importer and FA fucking up and getting hacked FA is their primary audience.

Yes you can say they caved and it is kinda true. But ultimately they have a business responsibility to fill the needs of their community in order to grow their site and their community.

If the importer was from inkbunny or inkbunny was the one that fucked up im sure that would have greatly swayed the decision.

Ultimately FN will never be the next Inkbunny. I just want it to be better than fucking FA. I wish to support it in that process so not only they can rise above FA but they can later have the stability they need to take the side of the minority to push for what is right overall and not just for their community.
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
FN never needed to be the next Inkbunny, or the next FA. It could have potentially been greater then both, and served the entire community, not jsut the most popular section of it. Their main focus didn't need to be sniping people from FA, it could have been being a good website that served  all members of the fandom. That's what's so disappointing about it. There could have been a solution found, if people spent more time focusing on what to do other then should we make these people second class citizens in our art world and force their art out, or not. We ended up with bad timing with FA being a trash heap recently, and a small subset of FA's most popular users throwing their weight around. Regardless, the situation is done with, and the community remains the same. Needlessly divided into separate sites instead of working together to find a solution that works for everyone short of telling an entire section of people to get lost. And that seems like a loss for everyone really, whether they realize it or not. :/
KitRyuu
7 years, 10 months ago
It is a loss for the community as a whole. No argument there. But it doesn't really matter. The question is what to do now. I don't want to feel butthurt or any similar feelings. They made the decision they felt was right and whether it was or not I don't think they have any hatred of cub art or those who draw it. If anyone should be the target of our frustration it should be those unwilling to accept any compromise and only accept banning it.
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
Here here! I wouldn't say I'm 'butthurt', though I am vocal in my opinion on the topic. Frustrated perhaps, but not anything to write home about. It's actually made for a lot of really interesting discussions over here on Inkbunny where everyone can discuss the issue so level-headedly! Furry Network just doesn't serve my needs at present, so I ain't using it for now.
OfflineUser
7 years, 10 months ago
To be honest, I'm not too surprised that FN made this change.
Cub porn has been one of the more hot-button topics in the community (mainly because of the "legal grey area").

Even sites that allow it come with their own restrictions, for example IB's way of allowing cub porn hinges one one of its primary rules:
"Human characters are permitted in artwork, however they must not appear in sexual situations and must not show genitals or sexual arousal."

If they did not have this rule, the "grey area" would sway a bit too close to the "not legal" line.
(Admit it, there is already a large number of drawn "human child" porn that gets linked to from IB, with many of them finding their way to 'Popular Submissions'. At this moment there is even one that links to an image containing Fullmetal Alchemist's Edward Elric, aged at ~15-16)
Even while the US doesn't quite classify animated/drawn child porn as illegal (but can be extremely borderline) this is not the case for all countries (Canada for example, where "cartoon" child porn is classified the same as the real kind)

While I would love to be able to see less censorship in FN, as well as see more artists able to join, it is the sad case of "give them an inch, and they take a mile".

Because of how difficult it is to enforce the limited case of "no human children in porn" popular sites must choose either to outlaw the children, or outlaw the humans.
(Doing neither would make the site extremely vulnerable to becoming a "cartoon" child porn site)

Outlawing humans limits a larger portion of the community than outlawing children does, one part of why FA is more popular/mainstream than IB.

Alongside this, by allowing cub porn also draws in those interested in the cartoon "child porn", again, just watch the popular Submissions for a few days. Even with the "no humans" rule, people are still making "child porn" show on the FRONT PAGE of IB, and censored or no, this alienates another large portion of the community.

When faced with this, any new site that wants to jump into the ring and attempt to be the goto site will almost always choose the options that exclude the smallest possible group. IB itself chose differently, but still had to discriminate with it's "no humans" rule. IB lives off being the "cub lifeboat", and because of this fact, walks a fine line, closer to illegal than many other sites are comfortable with.

That is why I was not at all surprised with FN's choice. While I wish 'we could all just get along', with the world such as it is, lines must be drawn. And we're I in the same place, while it would pain me to have to make the choice, I find that I would have made the same decision.

(And then kept a secret account on IB)
Tahla
7 years, 10 months ago
Oh, I'm not surprised in the slightest either. But that doesn't mean I'm not still disappointed in the decision, or that it removes a major reason for my bothering with the site at this current time.
JinxMcKenzie
7 years, 10 months ago
*golf clap*
moyomongoose
7 years, 10 months ago
I've been thinking of making edited versions of two stories I have on SF and here on IB
The edited versions will be for FN and FA;







By the time the sexual cub stuff gets chopped out of the FN / FA version, the stories will seem to have a lot of holes in them.
The Meerkat story won't be too bad. But the Zander Rat story will seem pretty choppy.

There will still be parts in them like where Jorad Meerkat dies as a cub soldier in the Angolan civil war...And the car chase scene, and Jhi Fossa shooting up the Iscelberg Rat Estate with a 50 cal pistol in the Zander Rat story.
After those get posted, that crowd might see it then start calling for bans on all the other stuff on FN and FA.
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