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Alfador

FA removal

So it took more than a year and a half, but FA finally got around to removing the cub art from my gallery. XD

...I have nothing more to say about that.
Viewed: 71 times
Added: 6 years, 2 months ago
 
Shuyo
6 years, 2 months ago
Hahaha.
drakiskier
6 years, 2 months ago
that seems about right for the rate at things go over there.
VarraTheVap
6 years, 2 months ago
*sighs* Is that another bitching-about-FA journal?

Try to think you were Dragoneer or responsible for FA. Would you like to have some american cops knocking at your door and telling you that what you do (hosting the site) is illegal and that you have to pay xxxxxx$ or go to court?

Or even if they could not penalize you for real because this is more or less a greyzone: Wouldn't you prefer to spend the money you have for keeping the site up, on servers and storage space instead of paying it to lawyers only to defend yourself against other lawyers who think "oh, let's see whether we can make money out of this dubious looking site which hosts possibly illegal content"? :/
Cascadiarch
6 years, 2 months ago
IB seems to be doing fine with things.
VarraTheVap
6 years, 2 months ago
Are the servers in the USA?
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
a) I'm not bitching about FA. The only reason I even go there any more is because there are artists I like who don't post their artwork anywhere else. I got my bitching about it over and done with, as I said, over a year and a half ago.

b) As KnyazHnko said, Inkbunny is doing quite well. If you own a site with any user-created content at all and you don't budget for lawyers, you're doing it wrong. No matter what your policy is, no matter what precautions you take, someone WILL find a reason to take issue with the site. Wouldn't you prefer to have a defense team ready for that rather than having to take from your server budget to hire a new lawyer?

c) As I said, the content they took issue with has been hosted on their site for over a year and a half in spite of their policy. Any court would take one look at that and see it as proof that their enforcement of said policy is laughable.
VarraTheVap
6 years, 2 months ago
" Alfador wrote:

b) As KnyazHnko said, Inkbunny is doing quite well. If you own a site with any user-created content at all and you don't budget for lawyers, you're doing it wrong. No matter what your policy is, no matter what precautions you take, someone WILL find a reason to take issue with the site. Wouldn't you prefer to have a defense team ready for that rather than having to take from your server budget to hire a new lawyer?

Well that might be true, but to be honest I'd do whatever I could to minimize those risks and I guess exactly that's what the FA's staff does.
Yet I think that IB has a bigger money source than FA has. Guess it's the "buy a print" thing you see on many artworks. IB gets a part of the money or not?

FA has no such service therefore they finance themselves only from donations and the advertising of furries.

" Alfador wrote:

c) As I said, the content they took issue with has been hosted on their site for over a year and a half in spite of their policy. Any court would take one look at that and see it as proof that their enforcement of said policy is laughable.

That's again a greyzone. Several freehosters on the net work by the same principe. They state clearly that they do not accept any ilegal content uploaed on their page yet they only delete a file immediately after someone has told them that it is ilegal.
For the official law it's practically "enough" if you say that you don't accept it. It's not entirely clear how much effort you have to put in enforcing that rule.
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
" DragonTear wrote:
" Alfador wrote:

b) As KnyazHnko said, Inkbunny is doing quite well. If you own a site with any user-created content at all and you don't budget for lawyers, you're doing it wrong. No matter what your policy is, no matter what precautions you take, someone WILL find a reason to take issue with the site. Wouldn't you prefer to have a defense team ready for that rather than having to take from your server budget to hire a new lawyer?

Well that might be true, but to be honest I'd do whatever I could to minimize those risks and I guess exactly that's what the FA's staff does.
Yet I think that IB has a bigger money source than FA has. Guess it's the "buy a print" thing you see on many artworks. IB gets a part of the money or not?

FA has no such service therefore they finance themselves only from donations and the advertising of furries.


IB used to be able to take a portion of sales like that, back before AlertPay decided to renege on their business deal. Now it's supported entirely by donations, just like FA.

I can't find a statistic for the number of registered users on FurAffinity, but a more accurate estimater would be that of current active users at any given time. One data point is of course not statistically significant, but right now:
Active connections on FA (as per their "users online" data): 5852
Active connections on Inkbunny (as per their "last hour" data): 580

So while the inaccuracy of this data might not mean FurAffinity has an order of magnitude greater volume of active users, and therefore potential donators, than Inkbunny, it certainly provides a piece of evidence pointing towards them having at least a greater such volume overall.

Also, Inkbunny doesn't have advertisements at all, so there's that revenue stream gone. And wasn't there a hullabaloo some months back about Dragoneer making a deal with an advertising site to put tracking cookies on all users? There's some more income right there.

" DragonTear wrote:
" Alfador wrote:

c) As I said, the content they took issue with has been hosted on their site for over a year and a half in spite of their policy. Any court would take one look at that and see it as proof that their enforcement of said policy is laughable.

That's again a greyzone. Several freehosters on the net work by the same principe. They state clearly that they do not accept any ilegal content uploaed on their page yet they only delete a file immediately after someone has told them that it is ilegal.
For the official law it's practically "enough" if you say that you don't accept it. It's not entirely clear how much effort you have to put in enforcing that rule.


Fair enough. As you said, though, it's a legal grey area. If your legal principle is correct, and they can't be taken to court if nobody says a specific piece is illegal... all they really had to do was put in their AUP "no illegal material may be uploaded" and since nonhuman art has never been shown to be illegal in the USA, they don't ever have to worry about "American cops knocking at [their] door" as you put it. And I'm pretty sure that kind of stipulation was already in the AUP.

If, on the other hand, you were right about the anti-cub portion of the AUP being legally necessary to protect FurAffinity, then it follows that they must put forth the effort to enforce that policy over their entire site in order for it to legally protect them. My point was that they haven't been doing that.
Zer0
6 years, 2 months ago
Meh, I'm with the other two. IB doesn't seem to be hurting at the moment.

Despite this not being a "bitching" journal, the fact that you get exasperated over another means you've read plenty. If you've read plenty, that means there is a trend. A trend means perception. Perception is everything in customer service (and that's exactly FA does, gives customers a service). So if there is this general perception of things going wrong, even IF there was nothing wrong, it still means whoever is in charge needs to re-think their policies, procedures and presentations to be more customer(user)-friendly and improve perception. Improved perception is measured through lack of FA-bashing journals. Which means you have less bitching to bitch about, and I assume will be a happier individual.
VarraTheVap
6 years, 2 months ago
Fact is: Pepple will ALWAYS bitch about FA, like there are pretty many fanbases where people bitch about. They just don't bitch about IB because they always compare it to FA, lol.
Zer0
6 years, 2 months ago
Or maybe they don't bitch about IB because it's simply a better design that's better looking, more user-friendly, and has admins who don't actively try and screw over the fans based on blatant favoritism/ineptitude? Maybe they bitch about FA because it really is that poorly run and maintained?

Sorry, but arguing in favor of FA is like arguing that twinkies have health benefits. There may be some good, but the bad is so monstrously proportioned that any good is completely negated moot.
VarraTheVap
6 years, 2 months ago
Well that's your opinion, not mine xP
Zer0
6 years, 2 months ago
The first part is a statement of evidence gathered from various sources of various people who were slighted by the website and admins and from personal experience. Partially opinion based on real events.

The second part is a statement that makes a comparison based on previous statement, and it was a carefully chosen comparison to make certain it made as much sense as possible while conveying exact reasoning in context with what was stated earlier.

Therefore, yes, it's an opinion, but one that's had thought put into it based on real events that have taken place. What do you have to back up your opinion?
cargoweasel
6 years, 2 months ago
Did they give you any warning or notice about it, I was wondering when the axe will fall on my stuff and if I'll know.
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
Warning? Bahahahaha! Nope. Notice? They sent me a PM listing the title of one of the submissions and saying that it "and similar" entries had been removed, after the fact.

I honestly am not upset about it at all--Inkbunny's been my main gallery since I stopped posting on FA two years ago. More amused than anything, really.

And the axe could fall on your stuff at any time, or in several years, and you'll only know that they've done it, there will be no listing of the submissions that were deleted. Nor can they make such a list after the fact--FA's deletion code completely erases it from the database and they will never go into their backups to undelete anything, not even uploader comments which are not part of the violation. Contrast with Inkbunny's policy of "hiding" submissions which merely restricts its view to the uploader and moderators, until the submission has been altered to meet policy and a moderator reviews it, at which point it's unhidden and every last comment is perfectly preserved.
Shokuji
6 years, 2 months ago
They are pretty draconian about their anti-cub thing. I had 2 size difference pics up and they were removed. Often if a character is too cute they're labeled cub and removed. I've all but closed my account there (at this point) and really don't miss it at all, I've found tons of artists on here I'd never have found otherwise. Also there's a laundry list of messed up stuff in FA's history that lots of people are either ignorant of or turn a blind eye to. [shrugs] Anyways, glad to be here, it's not perfect but it's better than most places out there.
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
Yup yup. The only reason I'm still on FA at all, as I told Cargo, is that there are some artists who are there and not on FA. And I wish they would make the move.
cargoweasel
6 years, 2 months ago
i post to both places, but a given pic I post to FA will get roughly ten times as many comments, favs, etc as the same pic might get here.  like it or not that's where the audience is, still.

Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
Yup. It's a self-perpetuating problem: artists continue to post to FA because that's where the audience is, and people continue to watch and comment artists on FA because that's where the artists are.
RenChu
6 years, 2 months ago
Best part is I believe there's still some more of it floating around on FA =P
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
There always will be. The only way for FA admins to completely "cleanse" their site of cub porn is to 1) Come up with clear, unambiguous definitions for what it is, and 2) hire and train moderators to go through the entire database, evaluate according to the criteria determined in step 1, and delete every last one.

But they will never devote the resources to step 2, and they have so far refused to conform to step 1. I doubt very much that it'll ever happen.
AlexReynard
6 years, 2 months ago
Wowsers, they sure are rigorously enforcing that ban!
Alfador
6 years, 2 months ago
I don't think it'll ever be gone--there are still people managing to upload cub porn to FA and get away with it. Not me though--I'm not uploading any more submissions or journals to FA. No favorites, either--just comments. I figure the best thing for ME right now regarding FA is to just keep a quiet, low profile so I don't get banned and lose the ability to follow all those artists I'm sticking around for in the first place.
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