Welcome to Inkbunny...
Allowed ratings
To view member-only content, create an account. ( Hide )
Yiffox

If you are on FA forums

by
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/120898-Ferals?p=...

go respond plz....

about their hypocrisy and craziness
Viewed: 79 times
Added: 6 years, 4 months ago
 
DraculJOSHI
6 years, 4 months ago
yay, drama. thx ^^

seems that IB is going to be the Zoophile site next XD
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
no....fera; rule 34 is NOT zoophilia.  sowwy
chironshands
6 years, 4 months ago
I suspect your tone in the forum isn't going to help your case, even though I see nothing wrong with your argument.
Danjen
6 years, 4 months ago
This. Seems emotionally written instead of taking a neutral tone.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
agreed, but its based on RULES...of which FA does not seem to have any...each admin makes up his own...
Danjen
6 years, 4 months ago
The funny thing is that the userbase reflects on the admins. You have the circlejerk of popularity in both cases.
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
The suspension? I don't really know details so I'm not going to defend anyone here, but as I understand it FA's AUP does not block adult feral content, like non-cub art, as long as the animals are depicted as being obviously physically mature.
DraculJOSHI
6 years, 4 months ago
please, as if any of the FA admins has enough veterinary knowledge to tell any animal from being mature or not.
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
And you do? I don't think veterenary experience is a factor here. Physically mature means what would be considered an adult, it does not mean whatever the mature age for the real animal is, it's not always easy to judge what does and doesn't look mature but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
DraculJOSHI
6 years, 4 months ago
can you discern a male underage deer, a female underage deer and their respective adults? I can't list all of the attributes, but I know that I would need to read that up instead of baning the first next feral deer picture I find... P.S.: even I know that bambi is bulshit. at the beginning it's a female and at the end a male... WTF?
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm sorry but what does Bambi's confused gender have to do with this (even if it is funny)?
FA does not ban feral artwork, adult or otherwise, you can see for yourself if you use the site search function, there are pages upon pages of it and in some drawing styles they can look kinda young *in my opinion*. I emphasize that because I don't think you understand the position FA staff were put in when the cub porn exodus happened, they were forced to remove all cub porn based submissions and had to change their AUP to suit. They had to draw a line between what is and isn't acceptable for the sake of keeping it running. I don't agree with some of the things I've heard about the site staff doing but I'm afraid I have to defend them this time because they are legally obligated to draw the line somewhere even if that somewhere might veer off into the wrong side sometimes.

Where ferals are concerned though this is not debatable by saying "A male dog is sexually mature at 9 months" or "The deer had horns and is therefore sexually mature", those may both be true in nature but I'm afraid cartoon depictions of animals are not nature, it's art, and if the art is reported wrongly that is honestly unfortunate and I feel sorry for Cobra having art blocked. My point however is that the FA staff have to decide what is and isn't acceptable and like human beings they are just as fallible as you and I, and treating them as if they shouldn't or can't be, I'm sorry but that's wrong. People need to accept that as humans sometimes mistakes are made and sometimes people behave like idiots, sometimes they behave very wrongly, and sometimes in very illogical ways.
DraculJOSHI
6 years, 4 months ago
my problem is, that the fa admin staff does NEVER say they were wrong, NEVER appologize for ANYTHING and SUSPEND/BAN ANYONE saying they were wrong.
I am just applying their own measures to them.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
agreed...they suspended me for posting a feral bambi WITH HORNS, ie - sexually mature, and claimed it was a faun
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
they suspended me for a week for a feral bambi pic WITH horns, claiming it was underaged,m Qoph was the admin he did this.  Questioned this. no response.  He claimed that the AUP now would claridy things.  No change in AUP.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
well a couple things wrong with your opinion.  1. the exodus of cub fans was caused by the new rules, not visa versa as you seem to imply.  

2. the idea that this was necessary is bullsheet.  There are no laws anywhere implying that art or cartoons of furries/animals is illegal regardless of age.  This is because one could always state in court that animals mature at age one. etc.  The laws refer to HUMAN art under 18.  They could have limited it to that as inkbunny and others do -- they also lied and said it was about alertpay banning them.  Alertpay and paypal ban ANY adult art, not cub, which is why those services have not been restored.  All they did with their ban is chase away a lot of people that supported them.  They lost money from that act, period.

3. Given all that and their lies, why do you have to draw a line on ferals.  Any ferals having sex are under 18.  Why do you have to draw a line on any ferals having sex, since they are excluded?  Any place should not have subjective rules....

4. I not only got art removed...that's not such a big deal, I also got suspended for a week...that is a big deal, and insulting.  Not only did they make a subjective decision on the "age" and "maturity" of a feral, but they punished me for it.  That is just wrong on many levels.  By the way, I was not trying to make a cub bambi, it was a cute pic of young deers in my mind.  By young I would say 20 yrs old on a human scale
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
To answer your points in order:

1. That was just my wording, I put the two points in the wrong order and it looked like I was saying what you point out I said. I didn't realize I'd written it wrong, but thanks for pointing it out.

2. I never said it was, but child porn is, and depiction of underage persons in sexual situations is a universally illegal practise. THe thing is though that cub porn is just that, a depiction of minors in sexual situations. Frankly, I think cub porn is just wrong, and I wonder how anyone can possibly justify it, but people have their tastes and I'm not in a position to judge.
My point however isn't directed at feral art or porn, but you can't justify it by saying "the animal is mature at one year of age." I'm sorry but that's not a valid argument, because then what happens? Every species ages and matures differently so there is a huge immeasurable grey area and rules are not designed to have such vague scopes. Suddenly it's ok to have cub porn because the species in real life matures in its own life span scale? It just doesn't work that way, that may pertain more to anthro characters because the humanoid shape makes it a lot easier for us to determine age, it's a simple fact of human behaviour but ferals, well, I ask you would you be able to tell one fox or wolf from a dozen others? We're not rigged for animal recognition, so you can't expect people to see things the same way you do, sorry but that's the way it is, we aren't wired that way so I completely understand if they make a decision you disagree with.

3. Again, sorry but no, now that the rules are there a line has to be made somewhere, just like a figure of government has to ultimately decide what they think is right, it's the same problem and it comes down to human nature. Yes, I'm defending the FA staff not for being what you claim they are, I'm not going to comment on your thoughts of them being lying cheating dicks, but I am going to defend them for the position they were put in - be it of their own choice or otherwise.

The fact is they're in it now, no point saying what could have been, but regardless they put out a site wide notice telling people about PayPal's policy and what to do about it. Clearly they've chosen to work with what they have, that may not be the smartest way sure, but it's how it's going, and if they've mistreated you I honestly feel for you, it has to suck not being able to do what you want to do there because of their lack of response or lack of contact, but if you're fed up with it there's no reason you have to keep putting up with it, just do what you do with previews and links to here and anywhere else you post stuff, ignore FA completely if you want, no-one's stopping you and it'll obviously save you a lot of stress.

Being completely honest I didn't even realize you had an FA page until I saw a journal pointing out your frustrations with the staff, I daresay you're better known and better off here anyway. This last little bit here isn't me trying to suck up to you, because I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, I'm just saying that while I disagree with some of your opinions as you do with mine, there's no point in going on about it further and I admit I've been in an argumentative mood today, but if it's all that much of a problem, why not just skip out on FA and do previews like you mentioned to Meowz? It seems like a smart move after all.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
1. huh?

2. Agreed, child porn is the depiction of underaged PERSONS.  Not art, not animals.  Underaged people having sex is illegal, this can be regulated by demanding ID of people to verify ages.  Now some art is under attack as depicting underaged humans in some countries.  The justification for this is vague, since it harms no one and its rather difficult to card art, but yes its the law and sites can ban underaged humans for that reason.  There are no laws for underaged animals or furries, or even describing what underaged is?  While I am not really into cub, less than 2% of my gallery has cubs in it, it is a shame FA decides under 18 furries are banned.  It eliminates all cute, most fan art (since the characters are under 18 to appeal to target audiences, hence sonic is 16 for example), all fem guys, all small breasted girls....do you see how ridiculous it can get?  you have to make ultra masculine and big breasted females to avoid ideas, even though this is not reality....big breasted girls are what?  10% of the norm?  ultramasculine also have small percentages.  Most are more androgenous and potentially banned.  It's insane that one has to subscribe to such stereotypes to prevent being potentially suspended.

3. no I don't think Fa staff are lying cheating dicks....I think they are using their own subjective views and punishing people, ie artists, and chasing them away...which will mean FA will eventually fail as more and more people grow to hate these policies.  Rules need to be objective.  What would you think of your police is they subjectively enforced rules?  there would be a revolution shortly no doubt.
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
Once again in order:
1. I have a habit of not writing my sentences properly sometimes, so I inadvertently sent the wrong message >.<
I made it sound like the mass exodus of cub porn caused FA to change their policies when I really should have mentioned the change in site policy first.

2. I agree that art doesn't hurt anyone and personally I'd rather see that a million people draw art of underage material rather than actually doing it, but this is one of those "a line has to go somewhere" things I've mentioned with cub porn. There's nothing wrong with cub art in general, and FA doesn't ban cub art as a whole, only the adult rated stuff and I understand why; they don't want to be linked to what some people cite as being dangerously close to the issue of child porn and I guarantee some people do - I can even understand that a relative link can/does exist there, and some of them happen to be working for AlertPay. I mean, what do you do with that kind of argument? It can hardly be ignored, even if it doesn't explicitly do anything illegal, it's the connection of the two that people notice and that means what goes for one has meant it has to apply to the other, though if I'm totally honest it's not exactly difficult to draw the comparison save for the fact that is isn't real - which is why I'll say I think it's wrong to anyone who asks, but I won't say no-one's allowed to like it.

3. I agree with your view that rules and policies should try to be as objective as they can be, clearly defined rules are a lot easier to accept than ones with questionable basis or the potential for misinterpretation. Where feral porn is concerned I can see this becoming a problem quickly, being subjective when enforcing rules is an easy way to... well, make enemies. I've read their TOS and AUP many times over but if nothing else I agree parts of it could be more specifically targeted, but ultimately it isn't up to me to decide... I can't really say anything about the staff though, I mean I've not had a bad run in with them personally so I don't feel it's my place to make a negative or positive opinion of them.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
2.  Let's clarify again, the connections to alertpay are LIES.  Again alertpay and paypal both ban all adult art in their TOS, not cub.  ALL ADULT ART.  so removing cub art has nothing to do with this issue, it was a lie told by FA to justify what they did, which dragoneer admitted to a few months ago.  Secondly, the CUB issue has little to do with me, as I post no adult cub stuff there.  This has to do with their "rule" of under 18 applying to furries and ferals.  This rule is ridiculous and stupid for a number of reasons.  One already mentioned is that very few ferals LIVE to be 18.  We can add to that furries that mature or die at ages unlike humans --these people have to lie to post their art on FA even though nothing is wrong with the art.  If your furry dog dies at age 25, and he's middled aged at 15, then he can be banned even though he appears adult in every way.  STUPID RULE.  

Dragoneer admitted this would be ridiculous when questioned to apply humans ages to furries.  A month later he reversed himself and said we will apply a human age to Sonic.  Hyprocrisy?

3.  I can totally say bad things about the staff.  Dragoneer lying...an admin suspending me for posting a censored pic because he KNEW what was behind the censor bars (yet television allows this, wow), Another admin suspending me for a week for posting a feral bambi pic with horns.  So subjective new rules, since ferals were ok before, allow one to ban one for a week.  Not only that but they claimed I have been warned times before for cub art.  The first suspension was sonic, not cub, and wrong since nothing adult was showing.So .08% of my gallery there = multiple warnings?  craziness.  They need to run this like a business.  Actually appeal to customers, rather than punish them, but that will never happen and I think FA will go under in the next 3 years.
Pedigree
6 years, 4 months ago
" JOSHItheDrako wrote:
please, as if any of the FA admins has enough veterinary knowledge to tell any animal from being mature or not.

Maybe they don't, but they don't need to. The movie "Bambi" can be cited as evidence that Bambi is a child because he is presented that way. If cobra had drawn him as a full fledge adult, they would not have removed it nor suspended him.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
you know there was a 2nd bambi movie, in which i believe he ended up as an  adult right?  could b wrong
Pedigree
6 years, 4 months ago
Disney presents Bambi as a child either way, so I don't think you are going to get anywhere with that thread.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
no, in the 2nd movie, he had horns and sexually mature.  This is the entire problem with under 18 rules.  Deers only live to be 15 years, therefore all feral deers are underaged, it's utterly ridiculous.
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
Maybe they're just dicks? I've not had an issue with them myself when I've needed to contact one, but I admit hearing similar things as many times as I have doesn't lead me to much disagreement on that front. I said they were forced into a bad position and had to make choices, but if the apparent inaction is the problem then that's a different place I have little grounds in which to say anything as it doesn't directly involve me, but it is kind of their job to give answers and sort through issues like this so if they don't then yeah that's a bit dickish.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
No no no....they were forced into no bad position.  this is entirely of their making.  The question was funding.  both alertpay and paypal ban ALL adult art.  The obvious choice is what ALL adult sites do...just get a direct credit card merchant. its actually easier than paypal.  people just donate via credit or debit card.  wow how hard.

The problem is they lie and say this is the reason, ie cub, when its all adult art.  So they lie to their ppls, refuse to do what all adult sites do and get credit card merchant status (not hard at all, srsly)  and then their admins go on a rampage on what they consider under 18 without any guidelines.  Any cute, feral, anime, etc could be considered under 18.  When you realize any female with small breast could be considered under 18, do you realize how awful this is?  You have to have post big breasted bitched to avoid being banned.  lets insert silicon breasts now.
RoseFoxTaylor05
6 years, 4 months ago
Like I said, their apparent inaction is something I don't have much of a basis with, namely because I don't know the whole story and I try my best not to jump to conclusions. I've noticed you seem to have a lot of trouble with FA staff and genuinely that really sucks, so while I don't want to jump to any conclusions or anything, maybe FA doesn't do what other adult sites do because it's not a porn site, like IB it has a lot of clean art too, although I'm not sure if that really counts as a reason, like I said, I don't know how it is having to deal with bad staff behaviour.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
50% of their views are on adult material....they claim not to be adult, dunno why, they seem to concentrate on the nonporn stuff....hey most of pur stuff isnt adult.  woot woot....but it gets no views.  Most people come to the site for porn, by their own stats.

the owners dislike this for some reason and continue to persecute adult artists in various ways, seems stupid to shoot yourself in the foot.  My problem with FA staff is their subjective pts of view.  The actual art that causes problems is about 0.8%.  Yet they suspended me for 1 week for posting a feral bambi pic.  I am not trying to bypass their rules, but they clearly said ferals were ok.  Now one admin changed his subjective mind.

The only recourse I see is to not post any adult art there, and direct ppl here and SF

if one out of every 100 posts are gonna get me a progressively longer ban, why post adult art there? and risk it?
cooncub
6 years, 4 months ago
FA again with their stupid rules,banning anything they concider cub that day. I should just post my 13 year old skunk there and wait for a bann, lol I only go there because its got more members for now and much more different art forms. A ban might be kinda nice for one time. hehehe, just ban my skunky butt, Dragoneer, just let me spray my perfume before I go, that might make FA smell better.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
the sad thing is it takes a month to get a suspension, lol.  the admins are so backloaded.  I got my week suspension a month AFTER i posted the bambi pic
Meowz
6 years, 4 months ago
I would love to help, but I'm not registered, not that good with arguments, and I'm more about Lion King "cubs", even though I adore them for the looks and characteristics and not their ages. Could be any age for all I care.

Thing is, I've pretty much had it with these self-righteous strangers on FA, who write comments on your uploads, acting all disgusted where a few years ago, nobody would have. So you get Anti cub and AUP garbage thrown in your face, they start feeling so much empowered now because suddenly, they get to act as a sheriff in town, and they have limitless others backing them, and you find yourself singing against a choir of "morals". Idiot morals, as most everybody with a grasp of concepts called "fantasy" or "hand-drawn" will realize. But on FA, just _one_ such comment will get the drama rolling, usually.

Just give it up.

This is why I only upload special previews on FA, because you can barely see anything, just enough to deduce that it's well drawn, and Lion King related.
Yiffox
6 years, 4 months ago
This is where I decided to go...no more adult art there, only previews, and tell them to go to SF and IB to see full pics
New Comment:
Move reply box to top
Log in or create an account to comment.