Welcome to Inkbunny...
Allowed ratings
To view member-only content, create an account. ( Hide )
Wolfblade

A few things.

I'd been trying to not make my own journal on this, but seeing this crap thrown at Ten pisses me off too much to ignore. So I'm saying something on that, and because I lack the interest in holding back as much if I'm gonna say anything at all, more will follow.

First off, if you are a friend of
Thanatos
Thanatos
, go here and kindly explain to him how he is making a tremendous Tool of himself.

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR: If you are not his friend, or dislike him for any reason, or just have never heard of him before this, please DO NOT say anything to him. I am not trying to get him flamed or trolled, I am simply betting that at least a few of his friends might see this and I only want people concerned with helping him see his mistakes bothering to talk to him. Cuz he clearly isn't going to listen to anybody else, and nothing good is accomplished by total strangers being ugly to him (I've been nasty enough to him in defense of Ten).

That leads into a point I need to make.

Thanatos there is representing the worst of IB. The worst behavior, the worst attitude, the worst response. To Ten, who in that journal is representing the best behavior, the best attitude, that anyone can expect from anyone who is not personally all approving of cub stuff.

An artist makes the most tactful and respectful withdrawal that anyone could possibly expect, and it's still not good enough. For so many people on this site, just the fact of not being part of the pedo parade is all it takes to justify completely and totally disrespecting them. Most of Ten's responses have been great, and currently Thanatos has been the worst by far. But he exemplifies an attitude I've been seeing tossed around a lot the past few days: that anyone not fully all about cubby goodness is not welcome here.

I made a bitching journal about inconsistency with the rules, and I got a bunch of ugliness from people who misconstrued that as just "you want to take away what I like!!"

Roarey made a calm and civil point about how there are things that could be done to invalidate the currently valid 'it's just a cub site' stigma so that IB could have some appeal to people beyond JUST cubs - without a word of trying to stifle, limit, or remove cub at all - and he also got "you want to take away what I like!!" and "don't like it, leave!"

Some other people have been vocal with saying "yeah, it's the cub site, people who don't like that don't need to be here" and "if the shoe fits, wear it" and other stuff adamantly decrying that this IS just the cub site.

Ten makes as respectful and drama-free withdrawal as anybody can possibly make (short of just vanishing wordlessly, which still would have caused drama because people would have just assumed he was an asshole for taking his stuff down without explanation) and he still gets some blind, ignorant ass-clown just incapable of seeing anything but "you not like pedo, you bad person!"



Fuck it if people want to call me arrogant or any other thing, but god dammit, I and others stuck our necks out promoting the hell out of this place and swearing up and down that this ISN'T just the cub site, and isn't intended to be - because that's what we were told, and that's what we expected it to be. So kindly fuck anyone who can't understand why I'd be a bit bothered by eventually being made to be a liar. Or why anyone else might simply not want to be here JUST because they like some stuff other than just cub, and this site simply has run off (through inaction by the site, and the attitude shown by a lot of the users) the majority of anybody who provides anything else.

You guys that are twisting "it'd be nice if there was more stuff >in addition to< the cub stuff" into "boooo hate cub, it's evil you all need to die" or whatever else you guys are being overly defensive about - for pete's sake, you're validating all the worst stuff people have ever had to say about this site and cub in general. You're making people who spoke out of baseless judgment and hatefullness RIGHT after the fact. It's stupid.



Obviously a great many of you KNOW that I appreciate you and your support, there's too many people to count who I consider friends and who I really just like a great deal as human beings. All of whom I trust to have sense enough to probably not be part of what I'm complaining about. To the people who ARE being part of this, I'm not just trying to be a mean asshole, I am trying to point out a trend of behavior that is bullshit and detrimental to everyone (something I have a habit of doing) in the hopes that maybe people can see where they're being unreasonable and adjust accordingly.



To add one more little bit at hopefully constructive input, since this all seems to have snowballed from me just bitching about the thunderkittens being a blatant violation of the no humans rule but allowed for reasons that just do not satisfy any of the reasons that rule exists to begin with - here's my suggestion at hopefully a more solid and less arbitrary/subjective way to draw that human/furry line:

What non-primate animal has a distinctly separate nose and mouth like people do? I can't think of any. I'll bet SOMEBODY will manage to find one though, so whoever does that, maybe you can also find anyone with one of those as a character so we can be sure to figure out some additional wording to exclude them from being thrown out unfairly - because unfair or arbitrary ejection of ANYONE is not remotely the intent here. Since "essentially human with superficial animal features" is apparently not clear enough - I thought it was plenty clear, but if the thunderkittens don't embody that description, I don't know what the fuck does - then maybe it should just be "Any character that does not have a muzzle and is not a distinctly non-human primate is not allowed." Or something to that effect.

The face is the most important aspect of determining animal/human and if someone's "personal style" is to give their characters a human face and not a muzzle, well then I am sorry, but that is not "anthro animal" it is animalized human or nekomimi or whatever else it's called, and is part of the "too close to human" stuff that the rule exists to keep off the site - specifically because having stuff the average person would perceive as human has very real and not good consequences that can't be ignored just because 'but murr that's hot.' >_<
Viewed: 1,376 times
Added: 6 years, 4 months ago
 
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Wolfblade... are you essentially asking me to intervene in someone else's argument?

That's essentially asking me to make drama. I'm not doing that anymore. You shouldn't either. C'mon. Ten is able to talk with Thanatos, and no one else need interfere.

Let people fight their own battles. Don't make drama.
RokukeShiba
6 years, 4 months ago
what wolfblade is trying to say is that Thanatos is acting like the type of people who drives people away with trolling/flaming people for no reason.

Its getting silly here.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
He's asking others to step in. That's asking for a drama circle bigger than the entry itself.

It's uncalled for.
RokukeShiba
6 years, 4 months ago
Meh still, Ignoring those type of people and let them do what they do best: troll. wont do any good. Then agein trying to tell them whats wrong probably wont work.

So i'll stay on the fence of this one.
elix
6 years, 4 months ago
What he is specifically asking people to do is, if you are a friend of Thanatos's, use your connection to him to try and talk some sense into him. He then immediately says, if you're NOT a friend, don't go there to flame him.

An intervention from friends to say, hey, man, you're out of line... is different from EVERYONE GO DOGPILE THIS GUY!!!!! GO, MY PERSONAL ARMY.

Please try and see the difference. Wolfblade spelled it out.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I am a friend of Thanatos's. He's asking me to talk sense into him. There is no way to do that without adding to the drama fire. If the argument is between Ten and Thanatos, THAT is who it is between.

I'm staying out of it. I don't need someone to flag me down and show me drama.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I have a strong personal objection to the attitude that a friend should not be the FIRST to stop another friend from acting unacceptably. If you see a friend doing wrong, and you do nothing to try and stop them, that, to me, is not acceptable. It is tacit approval by inaction. I don't mean people have to throw friendships away or jump in front of a bus, but to not even feel the need to say "hey, dude, that's not cool" if you see a friend not just visiting uncalled-for nastiness on someone else, but also harming themselves by acting so horribly and you don't feel inclined to do SOMETHING for your friend's benefit is, to me, just incomprehensible.

Also petty though it may be, I am pissed to see "I don't need someone to flag me down and show me drama" when you doing precisely that to me and not getting the reaction you wanted was what caused that big whole thing between us. I point to drama when I want things to happen to encourage a more positive and beneficial change. That's what I know you were intending to do when you flagged me down to show me your drama, and that's something I know we have in common. So that remark is grating.

The difference this time, apparently, is that I feel a friend is someone you can count on to be the first to smack you when you're out of line. I am friends with people whose judgment and beliefs I trust and appreciate, so those will be the first people I'll consider valid if they tell me I'm out of line. MOST people tend to disregard people criticizing their behavior when those people happen to also be on the opposite side of a disagreement. So I urge people who have a personal vested interest in Thanatos' best interests to go talk some sense into him, and I emphatically ask anyone else to just not comment. Yes, I know odds are that someone will ignore that, but I can't control them. I can make it clear that I don't want people to do that, that's it. And if ANYBODY who actually cares about Thanatos cares enough to step up and say something to him, then that's the best outcome.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
By the same token, Wolfblade, I don't believe in fighting people's battles for them. You think it makes for good results. I think it makes for bad ones just as often, if not more so, than good.

And I do not appreciate being asked to intervene in drama. Part of why I use Inkbunny as opposed to FA for most of my affairs is because it's low drama.

I'm sorry if Ten is having some kind of to-hell-with-this response, and if you want to talk him into not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, more power to you. Asking people to intervene at all was a mistake.

It's stirring the pot.
YamatoIouko
6 years, 4 months ago
How is someone like Wolfblade, who I'm guessing Thanatos dislikes,  try to convince him his behavior is out of line, though?  I get you don't want to oppose a friend, but that's kind of the problem a lot of furries have.  We're so afraid of riling up "drama", we'll bend over backwards to stay out of our friends way in order to keep them from turning against us.  However, the truth is that we're far better friends when we challenge them to do what's right instead of to just let them do as they want.

MadDog, let me ask you a question: do you think Thanatos' behavior is out of line?
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
That's the thing.

It's not Wolfblade's job, or ours. We are not meant to solve everyone's problems. Consequences happen automatically. Ten can block Thanatos or shutter his comments, or stop talking with him at any time. It's an internet squabble. Three weeks from now it's forgotten and a lot of hot air. Maybe their feelings will remain bruised, but that's it. A little itty bitty fire, which is fitting at this point since it is just a squabble and a lot of mean words.

The end result happens anyway. If someone behaves badly enough, people remember it and shun them. I know the net makes it a bit messy, but that is what happens. And if it's NOT what happens, then there's no need to force it to happen. Isn't there some My Little Pony episode with the griffin which is about exactly that?

It's tempting to get involved. It's a bad idea most of the time. It turns a small fire into a big one.

I hate to say it, but kinda like this entry, though it's still more civil than a lot of stuff out there. But it is getting long from the discussion.
YamatoIouko
6 years, 4 months ago
You didn't answer my question.  You're dodging it because you're afraid to cross your friend.  Do you really think you're doing anyone any favors by excusing inappropriate behavior in someone close to you?  Because I don't believe you are.  
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I did. You asked a loaded question. I unloaded it.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
You know what? You and Shokuji are doing a great job repeating the pattern of the fight Wolfblade and I had two years ago, and I want to thank you for that.

It followed this formula, pretty much to the letter. 'You have to get involved, otherwise you don't care about your friend or the situation or whanot'.

I could not illustrate it better. I hope Wolfblade's getting all this.
YamatoIouko
6 years, 4 months ago
If it's an issue of public discussion, I don't mind if you tell me in private.  But honestly, you made this about you the minute you publically named yourself as one of Thanatos' friends and refused the idea of even privately discussing it with him.  You say we're trying to load questions against you, but the fact of the matter is I'm  only trying to make you realize you're doing him no good by staying silent.  You can assume malice all you want, it's not there, because that's not who I am.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Seriously, you are validating 2009 MadDog so well I could not do it better. Sadly, I am 2012 MadDog.

And 2012 Wolfblade must decide which he is. 2009 MadDog, or 2009 Wolfblade.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
And no, I'm not assuming malice. =)

I've been there. I've been there, arguing what you are arguing against me, now.

Wolfblade knows exactly what I am talking about, too.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
You're being urged to act in the best interests of your self-proclaimed friend - regardless of whether that means agreeing with me on him being in the wrong or not, and you're saying no.

You had urged me to act specifically against someone who you insisted was a close personal friend of mine, and I said "I am not sure where I stand because there is a lot to process here and I need to be fully certain where I stand before I act" but you simply demanded action - the action that you wanted me to make - and you demanded it now now now.

This is a much more simple situation. Look at Thanatos' insults to Ten. They're not just general insults, they're accusing him of specific flaws which are nonsensical in the extreme to attribute to him in anything said in that particular exchange.

And again, I already specifically stated that to me, it's not even about you taking the action that I think you should take. I stated quite plainly that even if you disagreed with me, and went to support your friend in what I feel to be wrong if you feel him to be in the right - that is still something I would respect more than absolute inaction and watching your "friend" do that nonsense.

The parallel you are seeing here is only because even now - even after all that talking about it - you still have not seen the original situation for what it really was. You never did understand what my issue with you was about. I accepted the apology for the sake of just having it ended to not continue to be 'the one making it an issue' for everyone else who just didn't want to fucking get involved.

The way that situation DOES parallel this one is to further prove how ineffective and useless the "I'm going to sit and watch my friend make an ass of himself" stance is. How much of your nonsense would have been avoided if Wolfie hadn't sat back telling me "yeah, yeah" but not telling YOU what he thought? If anybody else involved simply made their positions known, regardless of whose "side" they took, that's more to push towards resolution instead of just sitting and watching you and me being upset about the whole thing.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
You're resisting the lesson, and I cannot force you.

Are you 2010 (turns out it was 2010) MadDog, or 2010 Wolfblade? 2010 MadDog argued that you had to get involved. You reacted very poorly to it. Rightfully so. Or was it?

This whole thing mimicks Starling. I could (and did) argue that he was someone you liked and thus it was your job to say something. And I suggested that it was important to your morals. And I had several people suggest it today. Even you are doing so, although you're doing it to a more cautious extent.

At this point, Wolfblade, you need to really consider your response in that situation, and apply it to now.

Wolfie, btw, did get involved. And now I have some misgivings on Wolfie. So much for good results.Wolfie for a long time told me he liked me and pretended that he had to talk with me in secret because you'd get angry, and he hated that we were fighting. But he never confronted me on it, and if anything, it confused me when he finally did.

So that's my point. Pushing people to get involved, and this was one big, long exercise to do so, does not make for good results. But I cannot make the horse drink. I can only lead him to water.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
By the by, you just showed you did not put the past situation behind you.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
'Also petty though it may be, I am pissed to see "I don't need someone to flag me down and show me drama" when you doing precisely that to me and not getting the reaction you wanted was what caused that big whole thing between us.'

I learned from it. Do not put the cart before the horse.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Nowhere am I saying fight anyone's battle for them.

Ten was being tactful until your friend began making an ass of himself and fully earned the not-tactful response he got. Not asking you to fight, I was asking anyone who's friends with Thanatos to maybe convince him of how much of an ass he's making of himself. If you disagree with that and somehow view that exchange as Thanatos being right and justified in what he's saying to Ten, then maybe you'd be inclined to support your friend. I, personally, don't understand how "friend" can apply in any way when person A can sit and watch person B in an upsetting situation and not feel inclined to try to do >something< of any kind to help their friend out of that situation. Whatever that is, it's not anything I'd consider under the label of "friend."

I don't believe in forgive and forget. Forgive is fine, but forget is retarded. It means if someone indicates the past will repeat itself, you sit and say nothing and let it happen. As opposed to simply raising the point of "hey, remember this incident?" for the purpose of bringing up lessons that should have been learned, or in this case 'ah, that's kindof a hypocritical thing for you to say.'

If the lesson you learned from all of that was 'don't ever try to do anything to encourage a better situation' then I withdraw the hypocrite point because a person is not a hypocrite for simply having learned to adopt a different position than they admittedly were wrong to have in the past - but I'd also say that was the wrong lesson to have learned from that.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Let's take the charge out of this, shall we?

'Ten was being tactful until your friend began making an ass of himself and fully earned the not-tactful response he got.'

His name is Thanatos. Please use it. I said this is about them, and putting possessives does nothing more than make it about more than them.

'Not asking you to fight, I was asking anyone who's friends with Thanatos to maybe convince him of how much of an ass he's making of himself.'

You mean you wanted me to intervene in a squabble between Ten and Thanatos. And my answer is no. As it should be. If our unfortunate spat a few years ago taught anything, I would hope it's that trying to stick drama in anyone's face is a bad idea. Inkbunny's a place where drama is much lower, though not eliminated. And if Ten would block him and/or shutter the comments, it would be a done deal. While that's not the desired outcome for every talk, when it becomes outright hostile, that may be the way to go.

'If you disagree with that and somehow view that exchange as Thanatos being right and justified in what he's saying to Ten, then maybe you'd be inclined to support your friend'

What part of staying out of this don't you get? It doesn't matter in what direction it'd be.

'As opposed to simply raising the point of "hey, remember this incident?" for the purpose of bringing up lessons that should have been learned, or in this case 'ah, that's kindof a hypocritical thing for you to say.''

That was my intent, right there. To get you to think back on something that started out just like this. Someone trying to get others to intervene in another problem. It did not end well. And most of your umbridge was in having the issue forced upon you, was it not? This is at least a milder case. You're not forcing it, but you're asking it. And you're asking it because, if you did it, it wouldn't be viewed the same. I believe this is less about defusing Thanatos and more about getting Ten to cool off. But in the end, it doesn't matter, one way or the other. Either is meddling on my part. You talking with Ten and trying to reason with him is completely within bounds and it does make you a good friend. Trying to get me to talk to Thanatos here when I wasn't involved, not so much.

'If the lesson you learned from all of that was 'don't ever try to do anything to encourage a better situation' then I withdraw the hypocrite point because a person is not a hypocrite for simply having learned to adopt a different position than they admittedly were wrong to have in the past - but I'd also say that was the wrong lesson to have learned from that. '

Well, first of all, thank you for that, I will take what I can get. But that is what I learned. That's exactly what Starling told me when I frothed about what I was ticked at. He said people can use their page for that and to stir the pot was drama. And I didn't accept it. That's part of why I ended up jumping on you, back then.

I'm not writing any of this to piss you off. I'm trying to say that sometimes, thinking that jumping in for a friend seems a great thing to do. And it is. Talk with Ten. Get him to see that he shouldn't leave because there are some jerks he doesn't like. I wouldn't want him to do that. Even if he is personally not my favorite person. Thanatos... let him ramp til he fizzles. If he wants to talk about it with a friend, he's free to. If he reaps bad consequences of people not wanting to deal with him, that's the natural way of things. Forcing worse consequences on him, I can only see that as resentment.

I'll say it. The whole thing with you and me, I consider myself okay with you, even if I don't agree with everything you do. But having four folks jump on me at the end, it still bothers me. And as you pointed out, sometimes, it does absolutely nothing good. There are times when all making a bigger fuss with more people does is cause a big old drama problem. I don't want those. I'm happier with those being fewer and fewer.






Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Again, you never did understand the issue back then.

It was never that you tried to get people involved for something you thought was wrong, and wanted to make right. That's what we have - or had - in common.

It was that you wanted me to >instantly now now now right now< go directly and completely >against< the interests of a friend. A person who was considered a friend because of how much that particular decision was THE OPPOSITE of what I knew him for. And you even got from me that I WOULD go against this friend if I decided after processing everything and being certain of my position that going against it was the right thing to do.

You then completely and utterly lost your shit at me for not immediately doing exactly what you wanted me to. That disrespect is what I was stuck on and even though I ultimately figured "fuck it, close enough" and accepted your admittedly appreciated attempt at resolution - you still never did grasp exactly what the problem was back then.

This scenario is not a mirror of that one. I have asked - >asked< - generally, that people who consider him a friend act in what I feel to be his best interests. You >demanded< an >immediate< action directly harmful to my friend. When you indicated that you were disinclined to act as I felt a friend should, I said that even acting opposite to what I asked would be better than doing nothing, but I still did not DEMAND jack shit from you. And while I doubt my tone is terribly respectful with you here, I do still think I have avoided direct and personal disrespect - at least not approaching near what you immediately and fervently directed at me when I didn't do just as you wanted right when you wanted.

I am going to ask at this point - because this isn't supposed to be me and you round 2 - that you stop commenting on this journal. If you have to make a final rebuttal, then okay fine, but please make that it. I'm not just blocking you because whatever I may think of you, I do still expect you to have the personal control to be able to respect this request. If you wanna prove me wrong, the block button's still there, though.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
You are essentially claiming at this point that what I did was not the problem so much as how hard I did it. Why then have you said nothing to the two who have suggested wholeheartedly that I would have to get involved or be shamed?

I'll point out Wolfie never brought me to any kind of epiphany. I had it myself, though obviously I did have it because of the resistances you offered to my trying to reconcile.

I figured it out myself when I thought about pushing the issue on you and not letting it rest.

Now what you've done is a more polite version. But it's no more correct. And you've essentially broadcast it to thousands of people, it's sparked a whole lot of discussion, and a few of THEM have tried pushing me harder when you hadn't done so.

Is that what you'd call a good result?

Absorb the lesson, please. Prove yourself right from two years ago.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I will add, however, that I will go. If anything this whole thing has validated how I felt from a few years ago, and I do believe I can understand the sentiments. They were stirring in me then. They're stirring in you now. But I have tried to put drama down. Even this spiralled into a hell of a thing, but I did not start the ball rolling. The request did. I wish you peace. But I think my peace is best found elsewhere.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I'll add the audience here isn't just friends of Thanatos, and if someone thinks that the only result will be friends of his will calmly talk to him, they are *KIDDING THEMSELVES*.
Rhumba
6 years, 4 months ago
This exactly, should have been a friends only journal WB, you have 5000+ watchers and and not all of them are that smart.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Okay, this gave me pause, and I will actually concede that I should have made the part specifically about Thanatos a friends-only separate post. That's an absolutely valid point, and I should have thought of that, but didn't.

The issue was that Thanatos specifically was simply the most current and most perfect example of an issue I've been seeing all week (and had been bothered by for a long while before now without ever imagining it was actually as ugly as this past week has shown it to be) and THAT point was the reason for the majority of the journal, and something I wouldn't have considered to make friends-only because it is an issue regarding the site as a whole.

Apologies after the fact don't usually count for much, but I'm not sure what to do now. If I remove it now, most of the responses to this journal won't make sense, and some people will of course accuse me of intentionally obfuscating things to make the drama worse. I do admit fault in that a better option to achieve my intent would have been just the friends-only journal on Thanatos first, but I do still hold that my intent - to get someone Thanatos might actually listen to to chill him out - isn't to be faulted.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Just re-fortify your journal, adding some colors and stuff to make sure people know to leave him alone unless they know him (I know you have done this, but make it even more obvious, I guess). But at the same time, I don't think it's too wrong to point out someone who's blatantly acting the way he is. Thanatos and I have talked before, but I don't agree with how he's acting in that journal. =/ This may be the end of the two of us talking, but he really shouldn't behave that way as he's really damaging IB's image all by himself at this rate. >_< Plus, there's nothing stopping Ten from making a journal on FA linking back to that journal and really making IB look like a volatile place to be. =(
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Ten wouldn't do that.

He didn't leave trying to insult or bash IB, and made plenty of points of what makes IB good even if it's not for him. He's rarely ever even as justifiably insulting as he was to Thanatos, and it took such an extreme case as T to even get him that far. So no, he won't be doing that.
Niji
6 years, 4 months ago
Someone who Intervene in someonelses argument used to be called a Mediator, and they were the most valued people in society.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
They were when the two parties asked them to be, or the mediator was impartial. Neither is happening here.
Niji
6 years, 4 months ago
Mediators were almost never asked for but did that job anyway, but yeah impartiality(or the ability to think and speak completely objectively)be key.
Mandelbrot
6 years, 4 months ago
I love how your asking not to be involved resulted in you getting more and more involved. I see where you're coming from, though.
foxboyprower
6 years, 4 months ago
I thought inkbunny was better than FA about clear rules and fair treatment.
RokukeShiba
6 years, 4 months ago
I dunno, I feel for the people who have different opinions are getting flamed by everyone is getting bad. Mods should crack down on that,
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
I haven't seen an active mod or mod post or mod comment on this site in ages... Doesn't mean they're not there, but it feels like they're not. I used to see admins and mods comment in journals and conversations fairly frequently, but lately it's been almost never.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Honestly, I expect they're making sure they're all on the same page on this stuff before letting out anything other than cookie-cutter private responses - and I do applaud them for that. It's a MUCH better approach than FA's "let Dragoneer throw knee-jerk responses to every little thing without thought at all."

But it's been a few days now and they'll need to be making the site's position known eventually.

Or just sit and let it die down and people go back to business as usual with the minority dissidents just leaving or going back to silent disappointment. That might not be an invalid tactic either if they really are just fine with the status quo. If you don't want the dissenting voice sticking around, just leaving them alone till they go away is probably the easiest and least dramatic approach.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Yeah, but in all seriousness, a complete lack of response makes important people like me think one thing: this is now a ghost site. And if I think that, I will start saying that and making it known. Keeping in contact with your community is critical for mods and admins, when it stops happening then it means the ghost ship has set sail and recovery from that stigma takes time.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Well, despite the lack of response or disagreement with specific judgment calls, I still have too much awareness of the devotion they do have to the site and the energy they do put into constantly working on it and addressing the usual issues in a very prompt and efficient manner for me to be able to make such a conclusion. So, obviously, I would still argue against that conclusion being drawn from this when the more likely explanation is as I said, just being unsure how to respond to this and wanting to be positive the answer they give is the answer they'll stick to before giving it.

Or, alternatively, the possibility exists that they'll see this as just a few dissidents stirring up the locals and that if they let the dissidents just get it out of their system, things will settle back to normal. Which may end up losing some of the dissidents, but if the objections raised are not seen as concerns, then again that's still problem solved.

jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
The problem is, and you've said this yourself, the staff not quashing the dissidence (the movement, not the individuals) is a major concern for people on the periphery of this issue. Myself, for sure, but it seems concerning for you as well, and some others who've mentioned that it seems like there should be an official word on this. When it becomes clear that the site is moving in a very bad direction and the staff aren't correcting that course AT ALL, that it can only be bad.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Well I got a response, and despite - as usual - simply being awe-inspired and jealous of Starling's ability with words, it was still an insufficient and disappointing response. They'll make a site news announcement when they're ready, but I'm not holding my breath to be satisfied by it.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Huh, well, I'm not going anywhere. It just sucks to be let-down again. =/ As usual, I'll just keep on hoping for a brighter future. And working on my own projects.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
*nods*
elix
6 years, 4 months ago
A lack of immediate response because a lot of back-room discussions about what to do so that the eventual response is strong, on-message, and what the mods/admins feel is the best for the site is not a failing. On FA, you have Dragoneer or drama-loving-mod-of-the-month spouting off about whatever half-formed crock of shit notion hit the inside of their skull hard enough, with no consistency or rational process behind it.

I'm not saying that I know that this is what the admin/mod team is doing right now. I have no idea what they're doing about this. Maybe nothing. But, still, the fact that they haven't leapt in to the drama bombs right away isn't a sign that they have set the community adrift to sort itself out like some sort of drama-and-bitchfest Lord of the Flies.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
How many days is it going to go without a response, though? These discussions have been pretty hard for an admin to miss, and have been going on for a few days though... You'd think that SOMEONE on staff would have had SOMETHING to say by now. Basically the accusations on the table right now are:
1) This is now "the cub site", period.
2) The IB community is aggressively against anti-cub ANYTHING.
3) The staff here don't give a damn (in general or about this issue).

Concerned people like me are needing some clarification that these are being addressed. All it takes is someone with a halo over their icon saying, "We're aware of the problems, thank you for bringing them to light, and we are working on solutions." Something simple like that is a least "word from on high" even if that word doesn't solve the issue - it at least shows they are aware/concerned and potentially moving forward.
elix
6 years, 4 months ago
Have you filed a ticket to bring this issue directly to the staff's attention?
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Uhhh... No? Why would I file a ticket about these concerns? That doesn't seem to be the purpose of the ticketing system. Aren't the site mods and admins involved enough to know these discussions are going on? They've exploded all over the posts of two major artists on the site and a number of other people's journals and posts, you'd think that if any of the staff were actively engaged in what goes on with the site, they'd be involved by now. What kind of staff isn't proactively involved with their community? o.O
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I don't have a pro-IB counter to that one. X3
elix
6 years, 4 months ago
Maybe if tickets had been filed months ago, this explosion of drama and trolling might never have happened.

Maybe it might have, but rather than assume that the admin and mods (who are largely volunteer--I don't know that Inkbunny is a profitable venture with the sales system crippled by AlertPay's off-fucking) have the time to scour every single journal and read hundreds of comments by furries attacking each other over whatever reason they think is important, why not go directly to them instead of waiting for them to notice?
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Nah, the basic issues behind all this aren't going to change. I'd raised these issues way back, and given up on them after the responses I got. They've only resurfaced because I had a shit day on a shit week and felt like bitching about something trivial, and the totally unexpected response I got snowballed into all this. :/
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
It doesn't take a very involved mod to notice something this big since it's posted all over several well-known and beloved artists' journals and submissions... Also, if you're going to 'volunteer' to build and maintain a community, those are the kinds of shits you give about it - you correct the course when users steer it off-course and start making other users very uncomfortable and wanting to leave the site.

Nah, I reckon if the staff here gave fuck-all about it, they would already be working publicly and visibly to correct it. I'm begging to be proven wrong, though.
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
Its not a respectful or tasteful withdrawl though.  Blaming the majority of the community and then saying he welcomes the flaming is tasteful. lol, and in the comments he was being a complete douche to Thanatos.  more importantly though, if the issue is between the two of them then this journal of yours doesn't need to exist at all.  You have to realize that by telling people on the internet not to attack someone you're encouraging them to attack him.
fatman84
6 years, 4 months ago
Then what to do? Ignoring will only worsen the situation if left unckecked...

Reporting to the mods? That's just like trying to get a teacher or the principle to realize a bully problem, only for them to screw you over and ignore us in the end.

Besides that, reputations are ruined and some talented artist are shunned just because that certain artist was trolled and flamed. In consequence, more people leave the site and we begin to wonder why there aren't many good artists around here. Kinda like what is happening to FA :C
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
Sometimes we have to accept that theres nothing we can do, that our energy must be passive, and that acting will only fuel the fire
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
The mods gave Ten and Thanatos both every power to separate themselves, and if they do not like each other, that is what they should do. They should not try and rope us in, and nor should anyone else. Small fires are way easier to deal with than large ones.

And this fire is theirs.
wicked1one11
6 years, 4 months ago
Did you just kind of skim through? Ten simply said that there is stuff/people on this site he does not approve of, and will not take part in. Nothing more, nothing less. Thanatos took it as a personal attack, and tried to lash back in just about any way he could, from straw-man arguments to personal insults. Ten responded as any normal person would; reinstating their beliefs and reasons while staying defensive on the matter, all the while being hurled insults. Naturally, he's going to hurl them right back.

Next time don't tl;dr but add your two cents about it regardless. c:
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
This is exactly my point why this journal entry should not exist in the first place.
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
I read the whole thing twice, and Tens loud journal seemed like an attack on the IB community itself.  "Great site, great features.... too bad its all a joke ant the people suck" was the message  i got from it
wicked1one11
6 years, 4 months ago
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension then, considering that's not even close to what he said. :/
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
lol troll.  Thats what i got from it, and I can cite specific quotations if need be.  Not everyone takes things the same way.  So the next time you're thinking about calling me stupid, just stop and shut the hell up.
wicked1one11
6 years, 4 months ago
Hahahahaha Oh jesus christ. Oh wait, you're serious...HAHAHAHAHA. Troll, all because I said you need to pay more attention. You want to cite sources? So can I, quite as easily. And another factor? You're the minority here, everyone else agrees that he was out of line and an asshole, which frankly you're now in the same boat. "YOU DISAGREE WITH ME? TROLL! TROLL!" You're an embarrassment to us all. Good day sir c:
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
its not about disagreeing with me.  Its about insulting my intelligence and comprehension for having a different opinion than you.  It, like your attitude, is rude and uncalled for.  How bout settling down and being a decent person.  But I'm done with this, because arguing on the internet is pointless and i have real things to worry about.  
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
you've been unnecessarily insulting over my opinions, and I'd appreciate it if you'd knock it off.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Keep in mind he FIRST just announced his departure without giving a reason, but just wanted to give people the respect and courtesy of a heads up so they can save anything they want from his gallery. He only gave the reason because many people were asking for it and out of respect for them he gave them his honest and not-antagonistic answer.

If you can't perceive the many points where he put special effort to avoid it being personal or judgmental while still speaking his honest personal stance, then - and I say this a neutrally as possible without it intended as insult or scorn but as an honest evaluation - you lack the more subtle reading comprehension skills.

Other people saw him saying "I just don't like it myself" without taking personal affront to it. What's lacking was not Ten's speech, it's the ability of others to accurately process it.
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
Thats cute.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
" you've been unnecessarily insulting over my opinions, and I'd appreciate it if you'd knock it off.


:/

There's such a thing as a valid assessment that is less than flattering but still not intended as an insult. If someone cannot read, they cannot read. A person mentioning that they can't read is only insulting them if they are trying to mock them for it. Obviously you can read, but if you got what you say you got from the words Ten wrote, then the simple fact is that you misinterpreted a great deal. Lack of reading comprehension was not intended as an insult, but as a point to be made. What you took from his journal was not what the proper meanings of the combinations of words he used would convey. That's what was said, without intent for insult.

You can respond to that by bashing someone for insulting you and insulting them right back (or being derogatorily dismissive like "cute" ) or you can try something more constructive. Maybe consider the observable fact that clearly MOST people did find Ten's journal abundantly neutral and respectful.
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
ya. you're right.  I tend to be unnecesarily easily agitated on days like today.  Been through some stuff, and it tends to make me a complete ass.  As such I'm apologizing to both you and wicked.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Dude, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm sorry to hear you've been having a hard time. Seems to be a lot of that going around. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even be as worked up over this stuff if I wasn't just trying to avoid having to think about more important crap I'll eventually have to get back to dealing with. -_-
XValentine
6 years, 4 months ago
dude, i hope things end up working out for the best for you.  And if you ever get the chance, never get a needle to the back of the head. hurts like a sonofabitch.... stupid doctors.
fatman84
6 years, 4 months ago
I now realize the full extent of the topic. Didn't understand it completely. I apologize and forget what I just said...
Zeikcied
6 years, 4 months ago
I can kind of see Ten's argument.

But the site's rules on humans is that human art is allowed as long as no genitals are showing.  Censoring the genitals and linking offsite is presumably okay.  Yeah, a handful of artists are taking advantage of that exemption, but I don't see what can be done other than tightening the rules or outright reverting them to their original state.

Still, these arguments worry me, as well.  I've done my part in trying to argue that IB isn't just a cub porn site.  I made a journal on FA about how blaming cub porn for leaving or not coming to IB is silly.  But seeing how people have acted recently to calm, rational arguments make me wonder if it's just a lost cause.

I love IB, I love loli/shota/cub, I'm not saying it's a bad site.  But it does have a reputation, and if people keep acting like this, it won't get any better.  I know of two artists who left this site but won't say why, other than cub porn was apparently not the issue, which makes me wonder if the IB community is more toxic than I can see.  I like to think that the IB community is kind and welcoming, but I've seen an ugly side this week, and some people have apparently seen a much worse side in the past.
RokukeShiba
6 years, 4 months ago
Yah the mods should crack down on this stuff..
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
And waving people into the fray will not help it. This site was set up to give us control over our personal pages to limit drama. Let's use it, rather than fan flames and invite others into a brawl. That is not the way to a good community image.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Asking friends of another user to step in and try to hold up a mirror to hopefully help them see how they're acting from the outside looking in is not "waving people into the fray".
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Yes it is. Whenever you get someone else to jump in, you are not leaving the situation to the actual people involved. Now unless there is some kind of imminent harm I'm not aware of, this is a squabble. Ten and Thanatos are *perfectly capable* of handling the situation. There is only them, and once we have people jumping in, in either direction, ESPECIALLY when they're being asked to, and it's a squabble, it becomes a situation of ganging up on someone.

I don't approve of that.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Have you ever been out with friends where something happens and one of your friends starts raising voices with someone else for some reason? Do you just let the fists start to fly, or do you step in and try to reason with your friend, help them snap out of it and realize what they're doing isn't cool (or not worth it)?

That's what he's suggesting people do. You say you're a friend, yet you choose not to do anything about it, which potentially means you agree with his actions against Ten. Which is your prerogative, but it does make you kind of look bad in the process. =/
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Shokuji, consequences happen already. We do not need to intervene. Because when you have more people trying to deal with a situation, that is how drama happens. It may not be the intent, or it may be.

I tried to get Wolfblade involved in a drama situation once, and it did not get any good results, for anyone. I'm speaking from experience, and the situation really isn't apples and oranges, here.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
It's never too late to tell a friend they may have messed up. When I act in a negative way I prefer it if my friends step-in and slow me down a bit, make me reflect on what I'm actually saying. In fact I'm going through that right now, a little bit, but we'll see where that goes as I don't think all sides understands where I was coming from.

In any case, if a friend blows up at you for you trying to tell them how to behave like a civilized adult then there are other issues that need to be considered. =x
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Shokuji. My pushing Wolfblade on something just like triggered Wolfblade to be furious.

Wolfblade, I do wish you'd fill him in. It's the same thing. Starling did something wrong, and as a friend who believes in morals, you cannot let it stand, blah blah. And look at Shokuji's.

Like a carbon copy of argument.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
BTW, Shokuji, your argument is exactly the argument I made against Wolfblade which raged into a fire between us (though I was more insistent, I'd say). No good results.

Wolfblade, you're seeing this, right? See the pattern?
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm wondering if the hate-mongering is an outside influence though, or if it's genuine fen who are doing it. Anon has been known to infiltrate and eat at a community from within its ranks, posing as legit members of the community. Though there are also some people who are just aggressive radicals and feel they need to be heard - they rarely advance a cause in the correct way but they just GOT to be free, damnit. And sadly, they're entitled to be by the ideal of "Freedom of Speech". As Dragoneer would be quick to point out, though, this is someone else's site and your freedom of speech ends where their admin and moderator bits begin. I think that if someone is intentionally spreading thoughts and ideals that are contrary to the desired perception and goals of a community, that those dissidents should be dealt with. I'm not talking about dictatorship, though ultimately that's how it could end-up, but the complete lack of discipline creates anarchy.
Zeikcied
6 years, 4 months ago
No, they aren't entitled by freedom of speech.  Freedom of speech (as it applies in the US) only pertains to government censorship.  All it means is the government can't censor you.  People have no freedom of speech on websites like FA or IB.  So no, they don't have the right to be cretins.

In a sort of mirror of FA, it's the pro-cub group that are being the aggressors.  There's a vocal and very toxic group of cub lovers who take it as a personal affront that someone would leave the site because of cub porn, or even human loli/shota.  I'm ashamed to be associated with that group, to be honest.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
I think you're arguing to the point I made, not against it. I was saying that people on the internet mistake Freedom Of Speech with being able to be a douchebag online.

As for the vocal cub group - for one I believe it's just a vocal minority. For two, I don't even know and can't confirm that it's not an outside group that's come in to generate stigmata. For three, where are the mods and admins to help mediate it all and provide some sense coupled with authority?
Zeikcied
6 years, 4 months ago
I think that, because users are able to delete comments made on their submissions and journals as well as block people from commenting, the IB staff sort of leaves that sort of moderation up to the users themselves except in cases of harassment.  Which does nothing to deal with repeat offenders or problem users.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm sort of spamming this by accident, but I'm assuming that Ten is not banning him to prove the point (and doing so very well) that there's animosity within the IB community that people aren't acknowledging. I'm just hoping that Ten doesn't post a journal on FA pointing back to it and showing people just how right everyone is to have their doubts. =/
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
If IB mods and admins never get involved in conversations, what's the point of having 5 admins and 25 mods? Surely for the meager amount of active users on this site, they'd be more involved, no?
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
I think that thanatos is going into that "defensive" mode that some people go into when their interests are even vaguely questioned, he just needs an explanation from someone that he will listen to,  that Ten was making entirely rational, valid points.
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
I've tried talking peacefully with Thanatos on many occasions, and honestly, I can never get through to him on any subject.
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
Well, I guess some people just have egos that act as conversational barriers, I hope he sees the error of his ways eventually.
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
In all honesty it is an ego problem. I'm not here to bask Thanatos, just give my own observation. On many journals you can find him and someone else arguing and arguing till the other gives up, or someone finally lays down what can and cannot be said.

However, this problem with Ten leaving is in my opinion one of the points I make out about the internet, and artists in general. He is not entitled to stay on a site he dislikes because people likes his art. He is a living person, and if he dislikes this place, he shouldn't be forced to stay. If someone is leaving you should send them off with the best regards, not drama.

Then again I also believe in the third date before a kiss, and to always give a dollar to a homeless man, so what am I to say about the etiquette of the internet *adjusts tophat*
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
You sir are a fine gentleman.
Aren't you the one that has the webcomic? I think I recognize the icon art style, unless it was a commission of course.
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
Ohnonononononononono,that is MarcoTheCat, I am a terrible artist. Trust me, he's worth looking into.

all I do is write stories. If you want you can read one, and I would be honored if you did, but you don't have to.
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
Okay, I knew I saw that style somewhere, I've always wanted a webcomic or a story series, and while the story series I would be able to do, since I'm a capable writer, I don't particularly like writing. And on the side of the webcomic, I just get frustrated when I try to draw so I don't, and therefor don't get better, and I don't have the money to commission a good artist.
Sorry, I tend to go on mini-rants about things.
And I will be sure to look one of your stories over at nearest convenience ^.^
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh I know what you mean. I have a problem with ripping my stories to shreds. I literally have hundreds of stories on my old desktop, and I think I have about thirty five stories posted on this site. I wrote over five hundred pages on a furry story, just to stop because all I could think was "No one will read this, you're just wasting your time on this piece of " and yeah.

As for drawing.. No,I can't. Maybe if I were to start practicing really, really hard I could, but at this moment I don't even want to try and draw something. Drawingbums me out, because it makes me feel like I'm even worse at everything else for some reason.

Back in junior high, I was actually very, very good at drawing. I used to draw people things for their birthdays, and people in school would pay me for something and I would draw it. All that changed when the fire nation attacked.

Actually I was in a wreck and I hurt my hand really, really badly. It's better now, but I have to hold my pencil a weird way now, or else my hand starts hurting really, really badly, so my handwriting, and my art, look bad. I'm alittle envious of awesome artists, but atleast I can still write ^.^
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
I will respond to that very long message with a simple, yeah.
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
Agh! I hate when you post a whole lot and someone just says "yeah" XP

In all honesty I think that may be why I freak out alot over wolfblades hand. I freak out that it may be something serious (It isn't but still) and it reminds me I can't draw anymore, and I get all pscho afraid that he won't be able to draw anymore.
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
hehe yeah, though it's funny to do sometimes.
I'm not really seeing how short responses to long messages have anything to do with Wolfblade's injured hand?
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh no, I was talking about back when I hurt my hand. I can't draw anymore because of it, and it makes me worried that Wolfblade will have a similar problem someday, and it freaks me out. I know it won't just some old memories haunting me is all. I'lll shut up now;
ArenSari
6 years, 4 months ago
Ah
I see
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Yes, exactly, and that is precisely my intent with asking his friends to speak to him. Because when someone gets into that mode, nobody who is NOT a friend is going to have any chance of getting through.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Do help me out here, Wolfblade. When I was trying to reach an agreement with you, and I ultimately had to admit that I had displaced my feelings and instead started drama with you, something I regret, and I am trying to ward you off of doing here... did Ten not jump on me? And Ten was never my friend.

Do you see what I'm getting at?
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Ten jumped on you in support of me, his friend.

If you do see that exchange as Thanatos being in the right, and being justified and correct in what he's saying to Ten, then you doing as Ten did and coming to the defense of your friend to show him your support is what I would view as the admirable and proper thing for any "friend" to do. That is, of course, separate from what I would think that displays about your judgment and assessment of the situation, but it would still be a more-acceptable action by my views than sitting and doing nothing and watching a friend either A: wrongfully making a tremendous ass of himself or B: being in the right and standing alone against so many others wrongfully condemning him.

Whichever way you perceive that situation, and however my opinion of you may be affected by what you choose to do, the stance of doing nothing to help a friend is to me, the most loathsome and spineless choice for a person to make - and for me, negates anything that I could classify as a 'friendship.'

I don't believe friends should just "always have your back" even when they think you're wrong. But I do believe friends should be people you can count on to do SOMETHING to try and help you when you could use some help.

Just as I am certain that when you and I were fighting, if Ten believed me to be the one in the wrong, he would have been the first to go at least try to shake some sense into me. The last thing I'd ever expect from him or anyone who's supposed to actually care about me is to see that kind of crap and do nothing.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
Ten jumping in was wrong and added fuel to the fire, helping nothing. Which is exactly why I will not.
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I kind of think the frustrating thing here is that the argument is that if we care we should definitely get involved. And as this has grown, it's become the insistence of several that it's an obligation or a tarnish on our character.

https://inkbunny.net/journalview.php?id=42725#commentid...

Remember this whole cycle, Blade? I pulled it on you, and here it is. Pushing people to deal with drama is a bad move. Now. I think I've said all I can say without becoming redundant and irritating. ... Well, more so.

Think on it. Don't do what I did, or encourage others to do the same.
ottah
6 years, 4 months ago
Honestly as the community on inkbunny grows I think it's only going to get worse.  A large group doesn't really police itself as well as a small group where more people know each other.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Yep, large group versus small group dynamics. Small groups are typically too tight to have out-grouping dynamics (aka cliques). 300,000 users is part of why FA is a giant clusterfuck of social angst and drama.
RallyReki
6 years, 4 months ago
it seems the more that people verge here from FA the more people seem to want to complain about things. When it was smaller we handled things better, but it appears that people drag back ill feelings from FA, so I think. not entirely true.
ottah
6 years, 4 months ago
Most of the fur community in general is quite young.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
This current round of complaints isn't so much people coming from FA and complaining.

It's more like the last of us still here, who came for something more than what has been settled on (as opposed to people happy with Just Cub because that's all they ever wanted or needed), and trying to express distress at how many people have already simply gone back to FA due to, essentially, promise not delivered.
ChanceProwlers
6 years, 4 months ago
My whole idea on it: NO ONE should have to do somethign they don't want to do just because you like them. If he wants to leave, it's his right, and he should be yelled at, insulted, or begged to stay. He is his own person with his own free will, and it is foolish to try and make him stay somewhere he doesn't want to be.

Saying that, though I enjoy Inkbunny, I support him if he decides to leave. I will follow him on Furafinnity, and I hope him the best in the future, and hope that he is happier away from this site, then he would be if he stayed.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Wow, how can someone prevent you from replying to their comments? Is that part of the Ban feature here? If so, that's kinda fucked-up - bans should be reciprocal.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
It is part of a banning, yes. I'm assuming that Ten is not banning him to prove the point (and doing so very well) that there's animosity on here that people here on IB aren't acknowledging.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm not sure I catch what you mean. o.o

If you ban someone, they cannot post to your pages or reply to you directly on other pages either. It keeps someone who has been banned (for whatever reason) from being able to continue contact to the one who banned them if that person steps off their own pages. It seems reasonable to me, and how a ban feature should work on a site like this.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
But there are people in this and other threads who are replying to me whom I cannot reply back to. And who are making points I should be able to respond to, but can't. There's simply no Reply link. And when I go to their userpage, there's no notice that they have banned me or that I effectively have any ban on them either. So rather than understanding that perhaps I've done something wrong to piss off someone, all I can tell is that the system looks broken because for no reason at all I simply cannot reply to a few people.
elix
6 years, 4 months ago
They've blocked you. However, for some reason, IB's coding does not enforce reciprocal blocks on communication.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
It's a sensible drama avoidance to not overtly advertise 'hey this person blocked you' beyond the unavoidable indicator of not being able to respond to them.

They don't force a two-way block either, as person A may have no inclination to block person B even if person B has blocked them. Of course most people would just naturally block back when they realize someone has them blocked, but not everyone does, so the site doesn't make that decision for them.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
As Elix and WB explained, that person (or persons) have blocked you. And it sounds like they're abusing that fact a bit. I'd suggest you just block them back and move on.
Tae
Tae
6 years, 4 months ago
Thanatos is what you call an arrogant asshole, trust me... I dealt with him at one point. >_>

I say ignore his stupidity and his biological sayings since he clearly can't handle the mature of Ten's giving his reasons/farewell. Ten said that he was expecting comments like that in the journal, and I don't blame him. Eh, but if you do have a problem with human art even if its "censored" then that just... I dunno, I guess unbiased. But hey, its his decision and we can't do nothing but support him for his decision as fellow watchers/friends of his. It comes to a point when you just simply have to not step into the drama of others which can end badly at a certain point. As in, someone going to leave this site, and judging by your recent journals, rants, and replies, its kinda hard seeing you leave the site but its looking that way.

But anyway, hope for the best when it comes to people planning on doing something else. Inkbunny has its downfalls yes, but it will change one day, and once it do, then hopefully the users will too. But until then, you either got to deal with this madness, or leave IB with a bang.
nekkofox
6 years, 4 months ago
You make a good point Wolfblade (You usually do when you make a post). I too have noticed a circle of flamers around with an up-in-arms attitude that is part of the reason that us furries get a bad name.

It's a shame to see people acting on here as so many ignorant and biased people in the U.S. act towards immigrants ("If you don't like it here, go back to where you came from!" and "You should learn to speak the language of the country you're in!", sounds disturbingly close to the outcries of "If you don't like furry, go back to so-and-so site" and "Inkbunny has cub, so you should learn to deal with it!") that I've seen.  It's positively shameful how he's acted, and in a manner that decries any amount of maturity. I enjoy this site because of the friendly, open atmosphere, acceptance, and then I see people calmly step back and say 'Hey this site isn't quite to my liking, so i'm going to back out now' and people just rage quit on them! It's appalling, and ruins any kind of feeling of community that is being built up here! I'm on myriad other furry sites, mostly for variety, but I can understand why some people prefer one site (or several sites) over others. And there is. Nothing. Wrong. With. That.

It's just so disheartening, you know?
shadycat
6 years, 4 months ago
Man, sometimes furry drama is like a car accident; I can't NOT look. So, I read over the other journal. There's ten minutes of my life gone forever. IMHO, Ten made a very reasonable journal citing his concerns and his reasons for leaving. Fair enough. Thanatos' responses start off bitchy and then move on to utterly disjointed. I've rarely seen so egregious a case of someone trying to use big-boy words devolve in to complete fail.
My question then is why Ten, a seemingly reasonable person, (Full disclosure: I don't know jack about either of these two.) continued to respond to Thanatos' provocations even AFTER he said he no longer would? Does he not know when he is being wound up? Forget car accident. The whole thing is a train wreck.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm assuming that Ten is not banning him to prove the point (and doing so very well) that there's animosity within the IB community that people aren't acknowledging.
shadycat
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh, I wasn't talking about banning, just that he kept responding. Would have been better to let the guy keep posting inane bullshit for all to see and ignore him completely.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
That's what I'm saying, most people would just block someone doing that to them, but I think Ten is trying to make a point. This will look bad if it's linked to. =/
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I think you answer your own question. You can't NOT look at it. Maybe he can't NOT be curious as to what big-boy words Thanatos will fail with next. Maybe he appreciates Thanatos being so helpful in showing such a great example of the 'with us or against us' attitude that is possibly part of him leaving.

Personally, I don't often feel pleasure or entertainment at people being wrong and stupid. I have at times, but it takes a lot, and I usually just feel angry or sad that people can be so inconceivably wrong at things. But it's pretty apparent that NORMAL people do have a much stronger schadenfreude response to people simply being exceptionally fail-full people. People don't have to be an outright troll to still occasionally get that "gee, what'll he do if I poke him again?" response. And Ten's overall personal history is more than enough to excuse a bit of stick-poking at someone so exceptionally reacting to something completely divorced from reality.
shadycat
6 years, 4 months ago
I admit it didn't occur to me that Ten might've been playing Thanatos instead of the other way 'round. As to what normal people think about anything, well, we'd have to find one first.
FlyingFox
6 years, 4 months ago
Not gonna touch that one, as I see both parties being at fault both throwing insults at each other, and it really doesnt matter who started with the first insult.
kenji321
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh so true.
Tae
Tae
6 years, 4 months ago
^ I think no one who commented in the journal should not be involve in the drama. Leave it to Thanatos & Ten to handle out.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Horse shit.

That's the "it takes two to fight" approach that considers any one-sided antagonism as a non-issue so long as the target simply absorbs the abuse and does nothing, but then holds both sides equally accountable when the unprovoked or unwarranted attack is responded to in retaliation or defense.

He was civil in the journal, and in responses to everyone else, there is no reason people should be held to simply accept and absorb the kind of stupid and wrong that Thanatos was throwing there. Ten didn't HAVE to respond in kind, but why should someone maintain a show of respect to a person demonstrating nothing deserving of respect, and so quick to go to such blatant and unfounded disrespect?
FlyingFox
6 years, 4 months ago
theres a blacklist for a reason.
kenji321
6 years, 4 months ago
words of wisdom right here
Lightpaw
6 years, 4 months ago
I was trying really, really hard to stay out of this, but I just want to pose a tiny hypothetical; pretend Thanatos was making a point that you agree with, and bear in mind that maybe the tone and content of the journal made him feel personally insulted.  He would be the one reacting to nastiness, not the one instigating any nastiness, and it sounds to me like what you're saying above could be used to defend Thanatos in all this.  

I'm not defending or attacking anyone, I just want to say that a little empathy can go a long way.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
If Thanatos was making a valid point in a less-than-tactful way in response to a journal that was in itself directly insulting to begin with, then yes, that would be a different situation and he would be much more justified in lacking tact for his response.

I am quite certain that is how he perceived this scenario. But he's quite wrong on that.

I am all for understanding someone's motivations and perceptions, but wrong is still wrong. If he only shot that nun because he was delusional and thought it was a serial puppy-killer, well, okay, sure, to his perception that's not as bad, but in reality he still shot a nun.
Lightpaw
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm sure Thanatos is saying the very same thing in reverse at the moment to himself.  
Maybe there's a difference from commenting nasty things on someone's journal and shooting a nun, and maybe not.  Maybe Ten could have worded his journal in a way less likely to offend, maybe not.  

If you want my opinion, Thanatos has some valid points.  In effect, he accuses artists fleeing IB because of its poor reputation as themselves being the cause of its poor reputation.  

And you are saying that the artist was being polite, and Thanatos was being impolite, and impoliteness is hastening the departure of artists.  That seems valid to me too.

So I'm not sure what the point of all the arguing is.  I mean, Ten himself goes on to say in a post that "...how shitty he may or may not be is none of my business, BS that happens to people because they stick their necks out for w/e reason to get involved in something else is not my issue.) Not my issue..."  He is referring to FA here, and I've trimmed it down to what I see as the relevant content, but what it asserts is that the best way to avoid drama is to simply NOT inject oneself into the fray.  

But that's just my opinion.  And here I am, injecting myself into the fray as well, so I'm certainly no holier than thou mediator.  I'm a dickish interloper too.  But it might bear mentioning that Thanatos names no names in his journal pertaining to this whole kerfuffle.  

Dick is in the eye of the beholder, after all ^-^
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I don't want to deal with maybes. Ten was neutral and civil, Thanatos was not. Show me where Ten said something in his journal that justified Thantos' very first comment of;

grow

the

fuck

up.

Thanatos was not making any points. He had maybe three comments before it was nothing but insults and even those comments were antagonistic and missing the point. Ten said repeatedly to plenty of people who were polite that he wished nobody ill will for anything they like, he hopes they continue to find what they enjoy, etc, etc.

You're not being a dick, but Thanatos was. There's no excusing him there, and anything to be said ill about Ten's conduct to Thanatos is negated by the fact that Thanatos got no less respect than he showed Ten from the start.
Lightpaw
6 years, 4 months ago
"My problems with the site come in the form of it's loosly worded AUP and the community presented (though not all, but a large majority) on this site...Since it has been opened to the public, it has gone down hill dramatically, not because in a declination of features, but because of the community that used them...a community that acts nearly as childish as the characters they post, the site is remarkably hard to take seriously."

If one considers oneself a part of this community and that it is nice and friendly, or at least nicer and friendlier than wherever Ten is off to, one might take offense at being called childish, at being told that one is the reason the site has gone downhill, might bristle at a hypocrisy one sees as intrinsic to such comments and also as the root of the true problem.

I don't agree with the above entirely, I'm playing devil's advocate, but to top it off he closes with

"I know I will catch a lot of flak for this comment, I expect it, hell, I welcome it with open arms."

So between the insulting adjectives, the potential hypocrisy, and the invitation to be insulted, I don't think it is very hard to say that Thanatos may not deserve to be so viciously repudiated as your journal post here seems to want him to be.  He certainly wasn't civil and didn't rise above as well he could have, but neither have Ten or you or I, so the pot and the kettle comes to mind, but that's just me.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Since the journal's gone now, I can't check, but I'm pretty sure those specific remarks were mostly, if not all, from his responses to people asking him to be more specific and NOT from the journal itself. I'm also pretty sure those were made after Thanatos' first pointless and ugly comment to Ten.

The simple fact is that cub people can be understandably defensive, but too many of them - including Thanatos - are unjustifiably overly defensive. ANYONE expressing ANYTHING less than full support and shared interest gets treated like a threat and an attacker. Ten made it clear - repeatedly - that he had no issue with cub, that he only has issue when it crosses the line into human children, and EVEN THEN he had nothing against OTHER people drawing or liking it, he just didn't want to be on the same site as it himself. That's all. You don't get more accepting than that without being actually into it yourself and it still wasn't good enough for some people. And even people like me, who ARE into it, but just trying to say "you know, it doesn't make someone a hater/enemy/out-to-get-you-and-take-away-your-cub-porn just because they personally aren't into or comfortable with it" get a hostile response. Or I try to tell someone that not >everyone< into cub is into it because of the pedo aspect, and I get the same 'you're not with me so you're against me' over-defensive reaction too.

It's fucking ridiculous, and there is no defense for it, and so I am going to just ask that this be dropped now. Thanatos was as out of line as someone can be and Ten was - until he began responding in kind to Thanatos - as respectful and neutral as can be expected while still being honest about his own feeling on the matter. There is no argument to be had for Thanatos to be excused or Ten to be blamed. PERIOD.
Lightpaw
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm afraid you are mistaken, as those quotes all came from in the body of his journal.  I specifically avoided quoting any of his responses, but I can promise you with utter sincerity that the hostility and defensiveness in several of them, prior to any egregious disrespect from anyone, Thanatos included, can be read to contain hostility at least on par with that of Thanatos.  I think that you are conflating several issues and concerns of yours all together, and that Thanatos, having offended you, has become the target for all of them.  I also belive that Thanatos is not a proper scapegoat for your frustrations, even though he may have offended a friend of yours.

But, again, I am just one person.  Maybe Thanatos really is the puppy-killing asshole you'd like him to be; I'm just asking you to try and divorce yourself from your subjective experience and try giving everyone, Ten and myself et. al. the benefit of the doubt, because to do less is to provide fodder for cognitive dissonance.

EDIT:  And I do agree, just dropping all of this seems the reasonable course of action.  The blanking or deletion of this journal and with it all of the comments can only be good for inkbunny in the long-run.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Harassment has always been against the rules regardless of subject. I think the staff assume that people will self-moderate and block people who are harassing them, and hopefully report the harassment via trouble ticket. I'm assuming that Ten is not banning him to prove the point (and doing so very well) that there's animosity within the IB community that people aren't acknowledging. I'm going to sound cheesy, but I think the golden rule should always apply.

I've only been annoyed with people leaving when they do so in a negative & loud way, like how RedRusker did. I think Ten is being very civil about all this, I'm sad to see them go but I have no ill will for them even if I don't like they're on FA for lots of reasons. In any case, all communities have issues to deal with, this one is no exception, but it would be nice to see it's users & staff be a bit more proactive about positive change. =/
RallyReki
6 years, 4 months ago
I thought you would have been more adamant on the loose way that "pedophile" or "pedo" have been thrown around in this journal.
for instance "being part of the pedo parade".
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
This almost seems like Jespah commented. But anyways, "pedophile" wasn't said in the journal, in fact you're the only person to say that word so far. And here's the full quote that "pedo parade" was used in:
" For so many people on this site, just the fact of not being part of the pedo parade is all it takes to justify completely and totally disrespecting them.
He was probably talking about how others, people outside of IB, would view these very vocal cub-enthusiasts, especially based on how they're reacting. Not all, but a lot of pro-cub people seem to be very forceful with their opinions, and it's not having a positive effect on the IB's public image. Then again you can always just get hung up on the words used if you want and just ignore the message WB was trying to convey instead.
RallyReki
6 years, 4 months ago
I have a mind of my own and pick out things that bother me too. I don't like the that term, it feels like its just being used as a generalization for anyone into cub art. As if he;s calling anyone into cub art a pedo.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
I acknowledge that remark without context of recent arguments is too easily open to misinterpretation.

It stems from my recent frustration at people who will openly declare themselves as pedophiles being needlessly hostile to everyone else - including people who have nothing against cub or who are actually into it themselves, but just deny that 'pedophilia' is the only reason for anyone to be on this site. It's the people acting like full outright pedophilia IS the only reason to be into cub or be here at all which have caused me such frustration.

Just as most furs tend to be frustrated when zoo furs try to insist that zoophilia is really the explanation for ALL furries.

It's simply not true, and for people for whom it IS true to try and insist that it also applies to everyone else, that only serves to legitimize outside criticisms saying the same thing based on narrow-mindedness and baseless judgmentalism. People who hate furry because they insist all furries are dogfuckers are wrong. But when some furries go "yeah that's right, we are, those others are just in denial" it doesn't help ANYONE. That's the issue here. The "pedo parade" remark was aimed towards the people who seem unable to even show consideration or understanding to other cub furs unless they accept the full pedo label too.
RallyReki
6 years, 4 months ago
I personally have never met a cub artist or someone into cub openly say they are pedophiles. In fact i always hear the opposite. That they hate pedophilia and try to fight against it.

Also again i've never met anyone who claims this site is only for cub art unless they themselves are on another site and rarely even come to IB.

I'm sorry but for some reason it bothers me that it's clumped up and generalized as such.
otherwise i agree that thanatos was way out of hand and should learn to respect Ten for leaving on a  good note.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Check
RoareyRaccoon
RoareyRaccoon
's recent submissions for a good dose of "yeah its cub, so what? dont like it, leave!"
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh, he knows about that. He linked me to it.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Oh. Well, nevermind then. :/
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Not to put words in his mouth, but he did say he more or less agreed with what Jes had to say in that journal. So I think they're both arguing that there's not problem, or it's a "small" problem. [shrugs]
Lyserdigi
6 years, 4 months ago
I agree with you..
To my surprise too, i have seen the rise of , what i can only describe as, shota and other similar arts..
I find it kinda disturbing, and kinda pointless to post that here, since internet is literally full of shota sites, scanlation groups, and such. To me, the appeal of this site has come down somewhat after seeing the rise of that. I liked it way more, when all i could see in the popular/latest section was pure furry pics, and i really do not mind the occasional fursuit photo, or music, or story, or such, since i kinda also like the idea of bringing out different artistic talents of the community, but very humanlike pornpics, to me, are somewhat misplaced on this site..
I have also noticed the rise of dramamongering, trolling, and leaving persons, and i too think, that admins should address that issue somehow, and better sooner than later.
And, that is just my point of view of the things, not the universal thruth dictated down from the above...
=^..^=
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
I say people need to get the fuck over themselves and let people leave if they want. who the fuck is gonna tell anybody they can't leave and think it's the right thing to do. This isn't jail or the military. Go get a fucking life people jesus.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
What I think is happening is people are superimposing a few 'messy departures' by others on to everyone who leaves now. This shouldn't be happening to Ten, he's been quite civil about it. =/
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
My honest opinion is that there is way too many people here looking to far between lines and trying to make people feel bad for leaving. If I ever publicly met any of those people I would not hold back beating they're face in. I would challenge anyone, no matter the size or muscle. This is the shit that pisses me off most here is people getting treated bad for such stupid shit.
shadycat
6 years, 4 months ago
*drums fingers* See, the thing is, I like most of your comments. For example, the one right above this one? On the fucking money IMHO. Bearing that in mind, let's look at this. "If I ever publicly met any of those people I would not hold back beating they're (sic) face in. I would challenge anyone, no matter the size or muscle."
Now, as amusing as it would be to watch you (or anyone) explain to a judge why they assaulted someone over a dispute on a furry site, can I assume you're engaging in a little hyperbole here? Or are you actually suggesting you would physically attack someone over words exchanged on the internet?
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
I am suggesting if some one gave me shit like Thanatos is doing to Ten, and I met them IRL life I would say something to there face without the slightest doubt and then pursue to see if they wanna throw dukes. I have no regret in what I say because that crap makes me very angry. Judge it bad of me if you want but that's how I am and I won't change.
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
In a simpler form, you pick a fight then you deserve to be punched for it. Be it through the internet or not.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Wow, where the fuck do you live that fist-fights with others because of disagreements is still legal? Far as I knew, just about every State in the US has made that a voluntary crime for both parties involved in a physical fight. And in many States that kind of assault is Statutory, meaning nobody needs to press charges, it's considered an assault against the community. Do you care at all about laws, or are you destined for a prison cell in short order? Or is it just your e-peen talking?
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Tobi: Just because someone comments doesn't mean you need to answer.

Jurann: No offense, but it just seems you're trying to start something.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
The only thing I was trying to start is a realistic reality-check. It is not ONLY illegal to throw a punch at someone, whether they say it's okay or not, but it's also illegal to threaten people. Sorry, but that kind of behavior is simply NOT OKAY, and I will not stand by and not educate someone about it being not only ethically wrong, but legally wrong to boot. It wouldn't be proper to let that kind of thinking go unchallenged in society.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Fair enough. I think all he was saying is he would defend himself if someone came at him in the real-life equivalent to what Thanatos did to Ten.
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
Lol Epeen, I have to say that made me chuckle.

Ya I was pissed yesterday it was totally my Epeen as you say talking. I try not to be like that but when I get angry I get angry.
tobifur
6 years, 4 months ago
Also sorry for all the cursing I am in no way yelling at you.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
I know. [hugs] =3
RoareyRaccoon
6 years, 4 months ago
Ergh, motherfuckers.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Don't worry about it Roarey. You've had enough stress from all this. =x
Danjen
6 years, 4 months ago
Drama, neat.
*grabs popcorn*
Lightpaw
6 years, 4 months ago
^-^
axlegear
6 years, 4 months ago
Drama post is dramalicious and angry.
HavenInc
6 years, 4 months ago
I personally find IB a lot more organized then FA, and I have set up a few tags that exclude cub art and the like, and I rarely see it, except for the dozen or so people that actually don't tag their art properly. Which I believe IB is going to add in a community tag feature someday to counter that. So really, I hope more people start thinking of IB as another furry art site and not a cub site. >.<

As for the Than/Ten thing, I'm not gonna worry about that much cause I kinda don't know either of them very well, if at all. So yeah, hope that the site gets better. Cause just cause something is allowed here and not on FA doesn't mean it's the main point of this site. -.-
MystBunny
6 years, 4 months ago
While no amount of cub porn can ever be too much for me, I would like to see a BUNCH more content that isn't cub art here. However, that'll never happen as long as artist keep up and leaving out of protest. Forget the crazy drama on Ten's journal for now, I'm not taking a side on that one here, just saying that we need non-cub artists to come here and STAY here, because otherwise they're gonna leave behind.. a cub porn site. For someone to provide non-cub content, then leave because there's too much cub content, and stop providing non-cub content ensuring that there will be proportionately that much more cub content seems a bit strange to me.

Also, I want to try to provide a different point of view here, that of the cub-artists and cub-lovers who are rather defensive (granted perhaps too much so) of cub content. While cub porn will likely never be banned on this site, it's difficult for many cub lovers to feel secure in that, because let's face it, they've been chased away from more than just FA, not to mention the threats, blackmail, etc. So if someone says they don't want this place to be known as a primarily cub porn site, considering the hatred they've had to endure many times before from less rational people, I can see why they have the reactions they do. I'm not saying it's right, or even mature to react so harshly to someone wishing for a more diverse community here, however, only that it's not without cause.
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Are they actually leaving out of protest, though? And if so, how are they making that known? If they ARE leaving out of protest, is it over the cub thing, or something else? There are many other reasons besides the cub thing to leave IB. Poor return on the investment (time and learning a new site and redundantly uploading content) seems like a logical and common reason I've seen...
MystBunny
6 years, 4 months ago
I've heard that complaint often, whether someone's leaving over it or not, though yeah they're usually not leaving solely because of the abundance of cub content itself.
fluffdance
6 years, 4 months ago
I've been keeping my distance from this for a reason:  The immaturity I've seen from people on the subject is nothing short of appalling.  The issue has little to do with the site, and everything to do with the community; something Ten made very clear, in an incredibly tactful manner.  The fact that people continue to use whatever reason they can find as a bedrock for their own opinionated showboating is nothing new, but it definitely seems to permeate some genres of furries more than others, and in very, very different ways.

I've been quietly keeping tabs on what I've seen of this latest wave of Stupid; on your posts, on Ten's, and on Roarey's.  There are certain individuals beyond Thanatos that are deliberately adding fuel to the fire, simply because it's what they do.  I'm in absolutely no position to call these people out, both because of my own history of retarded behavior, and because I lack the shear numbers that would be needed to make a difference in doing so in the first place.  I can only hope somebody with the leverage to make a change can do so, because the sort of behavior I've been seeing lately is nothing short of embarrassing; both as a furry, and as a human being.
isthisagoodname
6 years, 4 months ago
Not to be a total Derailing Deirdre, I read the last couple of paragraphs and a random thought came to mind:

Have you ever done porn of primate species (regardless of age)? I'd think they'd look cute in your style.
ShawnTails
6 years, 4 months ago
I don t know if you saw his website links but he has a reddit account. That should say everything since alot ( not everyone ) are kinda...arrogant and not polite over there.
Domino
6 years, 4 months ago
drama mongering.
-watch
+ignore
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
Was that aimed at WB or Thanatos?
jurann
6 years, 4 months ago
Hahaha, OMG, that's about the most inane and deliberately trolling post I've seen in this multi-tread discussion to date. =D
+ Immature
- Needed to know
Bunnycub
6 years, 4 months ago
I don't see what the drama was about Ten's journal seemed well thought out.  
JakeSilverwing
6 years, 4 months ago
hmmm....I think ya'll need to calm the hell down :B
I understand the point WB is trying to make. And I also understand Maddog's position in this as well as drama etc.
I personally don't know what Thanatos has been saying/doing. But I don't agree with the fact that he and others can't use a higher intelligence to deter that artists leave fore there own reasons. and just because THEY, look at only cub art doesn't mean everyone else does. I for one enjoy cub art, and I enjoy regular art. It's an artists decision whether they leave or not. Just like it's a true fan of the artist to follow them and not bitch about how they want things their way c:
Regardless drama drama llama. hope everything calms down and I get to watch you guys post more awesome art |3 life's too short to not enjoy it.
PS. I do understand what it's like to feel protective of a good friend and artist. and how frustrating it is to deal with people who have singular minds.
<3
Arithehusky
6 years, 4 months ago
So... to be clear on something here... MadDog asked not to be pulled into any drama, when in reality he lasso'd the drama and made it his own both by making a point of how much of a friend he is to Thanatos despite being unwilling to do anything, and by tying this to some previous personal drama he had with Blade? Got it.
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
[snerks] X3
MadDog
6 years, 4 months ago
I was the 'intended' audience despite it being broadcast to everyone. So absolutely. But why did I bring it up at all? Hmm.

Because I was asked.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
You were also asked to leave this journal. A request you acknowledged. Ari's comment was made before you acknowledged that request. Did that at least last an hour? No? All right, then.
FriskECoyote
6 years, 4 months ago
Warf! All this typing can't be very good on Mr. Blade's wrists! :<

And if it's all the same to everyone, Frisk E. is going to remain blissfully ignorant about the going-ons and issues of the furry society, and just wishes everyone well. ^ ^
FriskECoyote
6 years, 4 months ago
P.S. Frisk E. would really like to look at more porn now. :3
Shokuji
6 years, 4 months ago
So cute~ ^^
AlexReynard
6 years, 4 months ago
I do apologize for the atrociously bad timing of that comment I left. I had no idea all of this was going on. If it's any consolation, everything I wrote was purely personal opinions. If I'd seen Ten's journal, I would have disagreed with his decision to blank his gallery, but I wouldn't have left a comment either way. It's simply not my business unless someone brings it up around me.

Also, you both do make a valid point about the human art being posted here. If the admins aren't cleaning that up, they fucking should. Like I told Neer (and got no answer), 'What do you think will happen when the money companies you tried to placate by banning cub find out you aren't actually enforcing that ban?' It's in IB's best interest to apply their rules consistently.
WerewolfLumiere
6 years, 4 months ago
*sigh*  God damn furries ...
This seriously happens WAY too much. I don't know why but it seems like every furry has weird quality about them that makes have to be argumentative about any topic. Like they have to put in their two cents otherwise they'll explode. A quality not even I can escape as I simply. Can not stop my self from writting this...

I'm not even going to say anything about Thanotos's behavor because I simply will not associate myself with that man.

And that is my self-righteous two cents on this very embrassing night.
WagnerMutt
6 years, 4 months ago
Agree 100% with ya, though I have something to say...
"violence brings more violence"~
Everything you said makes sense, not saying otherwise, I'm just concerned about how you and Ten replied to Thanatos.
I know he acted quite offensively, but the whole "he started" thing just makes us as lame as them, risking making things even worse and getting even more pissed/worried.
If it doesn't work being cordial, why bothering at all then? You can always ignore bad behavior and move on.

I need you to know I'm not asking you to do or change anything, I'm just commenting out about it, and I also hope you don't hate me or anything for that, if so I'm terribly sorry and it won't happen again.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
No, I know dude, and whatever some people might say, I don't instantly hate friends because they tell me maybe I was wrong. :/

I jumped in specifically to smack Thanatos because the way he was talking to Ten was absolutely bullshit, unprovoked, and unwarranted, and I care about Ten very much. He is one of the most important people in the world to me and I'll be damned if I'm going to see some idiot little shitsnack like that speak to him that way in response to an OBVIOUS and CONCERTED effort to be as neutral as he possibly could have been in explaining his reasons to leave.

I fully admit there was nothing constructive about what I did as far as furthering healthy dialogue. This amounted to essentially me seeing some little asshole pushing my kid around, and stepping up to shove the fucker back on his ass and tell him to get the hell away. The point in the journal here was my attempt at maybe getting someone who cares about Thanatos enough to go convince him to shut up before he does more to make himself look bad. But the only person professing to be his friend can't be bothered to get off his ass because he learned a distorted fucked up lesson from a bunch of shit that only got out of hand as much as it did because none of HIS friends say anything to him when HE'S out of line.
Pepzor
6 years, 4 months ago
You really have a good heart
Stumpycoon
6 years, 4 months ago
Personally, I am not into cub stuff.  But I have no interest in taking it away from the people who are into it.  

If that's not good enough for some cub-art fans then maybe IB isn't the place for me.  Other than the reactions of such folks I don't see why non-cub folk can't use IB for the stuff they choose to partake in.

...and suddenly my drama-sense is tingling.  
pirohmaniac
6 years, 4 months ago
Just gonna skip over the drama since it doesn't really apply to me...
Gotta agree with the last part, I can't stand human-faced-anthros. They remind me of pugs, like they just ran face-first into a wall.
LeonHunter
6 years, 4 months ago
Wolfblade, Thank you for proving that although you probably think that you're top shit because you make art that everyone masturbates to religiously, you are in fact like any other furry.

Ten: Lets put the boot in before I leave *snickers*
Thanatos: OMGSHTGAHR%H, YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT! *bites the bait*
Wolfblade: What's this?! DRAMA? Hawt DANG! *jumps in and rolls around* Fly my Minions, Fly! Fly!

If Ten wanted to be tactful he should have simply left, stated he was leaving and left it at that. Making a post blaming "the majority of the community" was not tactful and almost certainly going to start drama, to which it did. Your post isn't much better and amounts to little more than an attempt of lynching, despite saying that wasn't your intentions, you would be an idiot to think that it would have any other effect.

And everyone making journal posts about drama in Inkbunny need to get a life, WB included.
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
Well, let's see. You start off making an assumption about my character based solely on the fact that I'm a popular artist - which of course can only mean I am an arrogant douchebag. Then you comment on his journal without being aware of the situation to know enough that he DID try to leave quietly without stating his reason - that journal came first, just giving his watchers the >respect< of letting them know where they can find his art in the future and the >courtesy< of giving them time to save what they liked from his gallery before his account was deleted.

He only posted the explanation because several people kept asking for his reasons. And he gave his reasons with a concerted effort to not make an attack out of it. The only snarky part of the actual journal was acknowledging that of course some people will see it as an attack anyway, which you and several others have only validated.

So I'll give you three guesses how valid your assessment of the situation is to anyone with enough sense to actually look at it, and the first two don't count.
StutheTiger
6 years, 4 months ago
(I'm really sorry if this doesn't make sense or it feels like im trying to have a dig at anyone i don't mean to, I'm currently suffering vertigo and i am extremely dizzy atm so my mind isn't working 100% when i wrote this <.< )


I'm not here to start anything or get involved, i do not know either of them and i only know about ten because I've seen his art but never spoke to him!  though tbh i think you could have worded this better
" First off, if you are a friend of Thanatos, go here and kindly explain to him how he is making a tremendous Tool of himself.


personally i would have asked one of his friends to maybe tell thanatos to just stop replying because he is just causing more arguments and ten obviously isn't listening.  rather then asking them to talk sense into him they could just try and get him to calm down and ignore the journal from now on, also i think calling someones friend a tool regardless of them making a tool of themselves can make them become petty and try to defend their friend.  I'm not trying to have a go or anything just adding my opinion
Wolfblade
6 years, 4 months ago
If someone tells me "hey, your friend's making an ass of himself" and I look and they're right, I will be right over there to smack my friend and tell him myself that he's making an ass of himself.

I don't understand the point of supporting a friend when you know they are wrong - I don't ever want to think that my friends are telling me I'm right but really think I'm wrong, because that has happened and it is bullshit, they're the people I would listen to first and be able to STOP being wrong that much quicker. So I don't support doing it, either. If someone wants to take issue with me speaking the truth about their friend rather than acting to help their friend make it no longer true, they're making a bad choice.
StutheTiger
6 years, 4 months ago
oh don't get me wrong i do agree with what you are saying it is some people get a bit carried away when it involves friends and I'm not saying support your friend regardless just that sometimes rather than telling your friend he is being a douche you can just tell him to stop commenting and making it worse, it is easier for people to tell friends to stop then it is to say they are making a tool of themselves.

i personally would like my friends to just say "stop being a dick" then watch me make a dick of myself but it can be hard to just say that to someone you consider a friend
MasterGuil
6 years, 4 months ago
Um, wow...
ittmi
6 years, 4 months ago
I agree that Ten's journal was respectful. For me, telling the truth is the respectful thing, instead of disappearing without explanation, and I consider his journal to be the truth. I've seen these censored human pictures with links off-site for the uncensored version, and it's really surprising to me that they're allowed, considering they're still sexualized drawings of human children even if they're censored.
As for only friends intervening on the comments, yeah, I got that feeling as I read more comments and eventually gave up on that thread. It seems pointless for me to get in that conversation.
ittmi
6 years, 4 months ago
Aaaaand now his account is gone, along with that journal. :-(
Kuza
6 years, 4 months ago
knew there was something wrong 'bout dat guy.
BrokenPupper
6 years, 4 months ago
I can't say jack about the journal OR the two jiving their heads off (not talking about you and MadDog either hurr hurr) since it's all gone. I'm rather confused though, didn't Ten leave long ago? 0.o

I WILL however gag at the fact folks call this a "cub" site and thinking those that aren't into it should leave. This isn't FA 2.0 guys, don't do this.
Charliemon
6 years, 4 months ago
i agreed with the points ten mentioned all were correct and legit
AlyssaKamber
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm not going to get deeply involved. I haven't read Ten's journal, just the snippets posted above. I'll just say this:

On one hand, his comment that IB folk are "as childish as the..." etc. IS valid. The people here who're antagonistic toward anyone who dislikes cub, including those who POLITELY dislike cub and don't make a big deal out of it, indeed fit that bill.

But on the other hand, the remark, intentionally or not, is primed to stir them up, and he pretty much said directly, "Hatred? BRING IT!" If anyone attacked him, even though I don't agree with the animosity or hatred, I think he pretty much asked for it directly.

Lastly, I don't blame anyone for not stepping in. I think there's a chance MadDog doesn't want to hop in for reasons others mentioned above, without having said them himself. I have a local friend - and I count him as a good friend - who's pigheaded in the extreme. He both enjoys being stubborn-to-a-fault, and thinks that, being of a nationality traditionally known for it, it's something to be proud of. He also tends not to take advice (in fact, he loves to ask for it, say "I'll take it under consideration, thanks" and then brazenly NOT use it) and trying to advise him is usually a lost cause; he only ever seems to learn a lesson when he runs into whatever problems he's set up in the process of being stubborn. After that, thankfully, he'll usually say, "You were right," but he still won't listen next time, even if the situation is similar. If I see other friends who're about to get into a sticky situation, yeah, I'll step in and advise them. In his case, even though we both still count each other as friends, I won't - because he won't take it. He always brushes off attempts to talk sense into him, no matter how they're put, and if I physically hold him back, he'll fight his way free. He's determined to do everything his own way, all the time. Sounds like this might be a similar case - he's still a friend, but he's one who won't listen to advice.
Terminus
6 years, 4 months ago
*sigh* why do I sense darkness?
whitepawrolls
6 years, 4 months ago
Trying to urge people into drama only brings more drama. Let them sort it out themselves. End of story.
New Comment:
Move reply box to top
Log in or create an account to comment.